Post: #1

6'2". 18. I weighed about 260 pounds at the beginning of 2014, and I'm currently 209. I worked out for the whole year basically, except for taking about a month long vacation in the summer. I'm currently working out 6 days a week, intermittent fasting, and just watching my caloric deficit (no heavy duty dieting). So I went to the gym tonight and started on deadlift. My one rep max was 235. For shits and giggles I decided to google whether that was a good deadlift or not. I was shocked and dismayed to find out that it's considered average for someone a lot smaller than me and untrained. How the hell am I so fucking weak after a damn year of weight training?

Then I moved on to bench press. My one rep max? A glorious 135. Seeing as I could barely move the bar at the beginning of the year, I suppose it's a bit of an increase. But still, I should be able to push a lot more after a year and being 6'2". I do have a hunch that the problem with that particular lift lies in my delts more than my pecs, as I have some of the smallest delts I have ever seen on anyone. However, for other muscles, I seem to do perfectly fine. For instance, I can pretty much lift the whole stack on triceps pushdown. And on leg extension machine I'm in the 300+ range for 6 reps.

The funny thing is, I don't look weak. My muscles' sizes seem to reflect where they should be after a year of cutting (other than my delts) and I definitely look more muscular than I did a year ago (even accounting for fat).

I'm really at my wits end as what to do. I'm majorly discouraged right now and very confused. Now if I could just cut off the rest of this damn fat I would actually be able to see how my muscles were developing.

Do I just have incredibly shitty genetics? Strange, considering my ancestors were Poles, who are generally considered to be strong.

Post: #2

I think it is only natural to figure out how you are doing relative to other people. Or for your size, etc.

But if you are improving, gaining strength, losing weight, looking better in the mirror, I would suggest not worrying so much about it.

Compare yourself to the you from yesterday and envision a better you tomorrow.

Post: #3

Your strength is relative to your LBM (Lean Body Mass), not your overall mass. You can weight a lot of weight and still be weak.

Getting stronger is a slow process, and it will be slower if you are not doing things correctly, like lifting with bad form, or lifting too frequently. You say you lift 6 days a week, that seems like too much, you don't even leave days in between to recover and you are doing IF and on a caloric deficit, you cannot really expect to grow stronger like this.

Post: #4

(12-09-2014 11:40 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  Your strength is relative to your LBM (Lean Body Mass), not your overall mass. You can weight a lot of weight and still be weak.

Getting stronger is a slow process, and it will be slower if you are not doing things correctly, like lifting with bad form, or lifting too frequently. You say you lift 6 days a week, that seems like too much, you don't even leave days in between to recover and you are doing IF and on a caloric deficit, you cannot really expect to grow stronger like this.

My workout's are on the shorter side and this is how I stay motivated. When I have breaks in between I lose motivation. Besides, I only started this particular thing 2 weeks ago.

Post: #5

6 days a week isn't too much. Now, if these are your lifts, I would hazard to guess you have 1. quite a bit more fat to lose and 2. never trained to progressive overload (you're not training hard enough).

So, my recommendations to you are:

-Stop IMF. Start eating properly, you'll have more energy.
-Start lifting compounds far more frequently. (dead, squat, bench variations, OH Presses, Rows, and Chins.)
-I would personally recommend training for about an hour a day.
-Consider where you started, if you couldn't even move the bar at the beginning of the year, you've already put 90 lbs on your bench.
-Post your routine on here so it can be critiqued.

PM me if you need more information or to critique your routine in private.

Post: #6

(12-09-2014 11:16 PM)Krusyos Wrote:  6'2". 18. I weighed about 260 pounds at the beginning of 2014, and I'm currently 209. I worked out for the whole year basically, except for taking about a month long vacation in the summer. I'm currently working out 6 days a week, intermittent fasting, and just watching my caloric deficit (no heavy duty dieting). So I went to the gym tonight and started on deadlift. My one rep max was 235. For shits and giggles I decided to google whether that was a good deadlift or not. I was shocked and dismayed to find out that it's considered average for someone a lot smaller than me and untrained. How the hell am I so fucking weak after a damn year of weight training?

Then I moved on to bench press. My one rep max? A glorious 135. Seeing as I could barely move the bar at the beginning of the year, I suppose it's a bit of an increase. But still, I should be able to push a lot more after a year and being 6'2". I do have a hunch that the problem with that particular lift lies in my delts more than my pecs, as I have some of the smallest delts I have ever seen on anyone. However, for other muscles, I seem to do perfectly fine. For instance, I can pretty much lift the whole stack on triceps pushdown. And on leg extension machine I'm in the 300+ range for 6 reps.

The funny thing is, I don't look weak. My muscles' sizes seem to reflect where they should be after a year of cutting (other than my delts) and I definitely look more muscular than I did a year ago (even accounting for fat).

I'm really at my wits end as what to do. I'm majorly discouraged right now and very confused. Now if I could just cut off the rest of this damn fat I would actually be able to see how my muscles were developing.

Do I just have incredibly shitty genetics? Strange, considering my ancestors were Poles, who are generally considered to be strong.

You saying you "worked out for a year" doesn't really help us. What program? Were you progressive loading? Have you been adding weight and/or reps every week? I doubt it.

There's a few important factors here. First off; I can relate to you, I'm 6'3", been lifting for almost exactly two years now, and my lifts are pretty shitty for someone that's been doing this two years and has my physical stats. I weight 192 and I just hit a 315 deadlift for the first time in 6 months and felt like my head was going to explode.

Anyway, key factors:
-Eating. Stop IF immediately. It's going to be MUCH harder for you to gain strength on a calorie defecit. Are you more concerned with getting stronger or getting shredded? You can do both, but be ready for a very long, gradual process
-form. Spend hours on Youtube perfecting your form. Check out Johnny Candito
-age. You might be, as I was, a late bloomer. Shit, I'm still getting hair in new places thanks to my newfound supply of testosterone. Once I started lifting I felt like I hit a second puberty. Your metabolism will go through all kinds of phases from 18-28

Forget about machines for now. Tricep pushdown is for old people and people with injuries. You claim you hit 300+ on leg extension but are you holding it at the top of the rep? Forget it for now and focus on squats.

You deadlifted 235 for one rep...well what were you deadlifting a year ago? Progress is all that matters, don't compare yourself to what google says. Deadlift is a movement that, with minor corrections to your form, you can easily load on another 20-30 lbs and lift way more than you thought you could.

Post: #7

I wouldn't even worry about the numbers bro. Eventually you will get there, just stay in the gym and set small small goals for weight you wanna add to the gym.

Whats really important is that you are looking better and getting closer to having the body you want to have. I would rather look like Conan the Barbarian and only be able to bench press 150lbs then look like a average Joe and be able to bench 350lbs...... only guys worry about what you can lift. Girls dont give a fuck they just want so squeeze and nice arm. Or how bout this one, Id rather have a Lamborghini that only had 150HP then a Volkswagen Beatle with 400hp..... I could go on with these for days, its like a gift, its like I can't control it.

But you get the picture

Post: #8

Numbers are the best way to determine progress however, and I would highly reccomend keeping a journal or if you're like me a mental log of max lifts and rep ranges at certain weights. You have to fight to put 2.5-5 lbs on the bar every goddamn week. If you're a natural trainer, the only thing that'll make you add muscle is heavier weights and getting stronger, there's no way around it.

Post: #9

As you're still a beginner, a body recompositon can work for you. Losing fat and building muscle simultaneously is still an option for you. Start a solid strength routine like starting strength or anything that emphasizes compound movements done multiple times a week, stay on a deficit on rest days and over your maintenance on lifting days. Ideally you should be able to bench 1.2x, squat 1.6x and deadlift 2x bodyweight at the very least after the sweet newbie gains are over. No reason to quit doing IF if you're doing it intelligently and getting your macros.

Post: #10

I as well worked out for two years and my numbers are similar.

I've started working out with other people and seeing how much harder I can push myself.

Try to do a 1 rep max for everything once a week. Write down what you do
Try to do a certain set weight for a given amount of time (EG 100 bicep curls of 60 pounds in 8 minutes, going slow on each rep)
Try to do every exercise for 45 seconds keeping the muscles engaged throughout
Swim, build up all your weak unused muscles

I didn't do anything with my shoulders ever and can't shoulder press for shit. I leg press 500. Make sure you work out your whole body

Post: #11

(12-10-2014 12:05 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  6 days a week isn't too much. Now, if these are your lifts, I would hazard to guess you have 1. quite a bit more fat to lose and 2. never trained to progressive overload (you're not training hard enough).

So, my recommendations to you are:

-Stop IMF. Start eating properly, you'll have more energy.
-Start lifting compounds far more frequently. (dead, squat, bench variations, OH Presses, Rows, and Chins.)
-I would personally recommend training for about an hour a day.
-Consider where you started, if you couldn't even move the bar at the beginning of the year, you've already put 90 lbs on your bench.
-Post your routine on here so it can be critiqued.

PM me if you need more information or to critique your routine in private.

Isn't too much? How many days does the week have? Seven.

If you are deadlifting, squatting, overhead pressing, pullups, and bench pressing heavy, six days a week is a lot of strain on the body with barely any time for recovery.

On the other hand it is likely that he is not training hard enough, like you said.

Some posters have mentioned quitting IF, I wouldn't do it but that's fine and you should probably try getting a break from it for a while.

Post: #12

You said you've been dieting for a year. There's your answer. You can't gain (much) on a caloric deficit. To build muscle you need to be on a caloric surplus. Building muscle and losing fat are mutually exclusive as a drug-free lifter. You have to pick one and see it through. This is why bodybuilding is a bitch of a protracted journey for fat/skinny-fat guys - they have to allocate so much time to cutting the fat off.

Post: #13

The key with lifting is to increase every week. When you do a given lift, try to go up 5 lbs. over what you did last week. If you can't then try to do more reps than the previous week using the same weight. You won't always be able to increase, but you can probably increase reps or weight on half to 3/4 of the lifts you do in a week. When you walk out of the gym after increasing on almost all of your lifts that day, it is a great feeling.
You will need to eat well to see gains, but you don't have to stuff yourself. Focus on lots of protein, a decent amount of fat, and just enough carbs to get by without feeling a lack of energy. Get those carbs from veggies, not bread, potatoes, rice, or pasta.
I would say to only exercise 45 minutes a day. If you do more, you start to build up cortisol, which defeats the muscle building process. You can count some warm up, stretching, and cool down outside the 45 minutes, to get to a whole hour.

If you follow this approach and do free weight lifts that target each major muscle group, you should see rapid gains initially, then start to slow down, but still continue gaining. By the time this process starts to plateau, you'll have time to do more research and get some experience with what works.

Post: #14

Your lifts are weak for your size but don't beat yourself up about it. You lost a lot of weight. Usually people lose some muscle in a drastic weight loss program like what you did (50 lbs in a year). Do a starting strength 5x5 program combined with some body building accessory lifts to help compliment both strength and growth. After 6 months, you will see all kinds of gains.

Post: #15

You are suprised by your own numbers which tells me you do not (or rarely) perform these exercises. Especially when you are new, you should be doing the main compound lifts regulary.

Jason Blaha says that if you train for a year and you can't squat 300lbs you are not doing the right things, no matter your starting point. I tend to agree with him.

Go do stronglifts, starting strenght, ICF or similiar and in a year all your lifts will be 2x as much.

Post: #16

If you bench 135lb for a 1RM and you're not a small girl, I suggest spending more time doing pushups than barbell bench. You need a reasonable of bodyweight strength before focusing on barbell stuff. Try doing proper pushups for about 3x20 before getting to barbell bench.

Post: #17

(12-10-2014 07:32 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  If you bench 135lb for a 1RM and you're not a small girl, I suggest spending more time doing pushups than barbell bench. You need a reasonable of bodyweight strength before focusing on barbell stuff. Try doing proper pushups for about 3x20 before getting to barbell bench.

Yeah, starting last week I've been doing pushups right when I get up and right before bed. Right now I'm at 20 for each set.

Post: #18

Right now I'm more concerned with cutting my fat than bulking. I've been fat all my life and it's kind of a mental thing that I really, really want to cut down to a low body fat %. Plus, I want to see how it changes my face thanks to that thread.

So here's my year in a nutshell:
January to Mid-March: Kris Gethin's 12 Week Training Program (I started to get off track at the end, but I still lost a fair amount of my weight then)
Mid-March to June: My own thing. I don't remember too well, but I basically did whatever exercises I wanted to for a particular body part a few times a week. My diet wasn't strict.
June to July: Stopped training
August-September: Started Gethin's 12 Week Training Program again, this time fell off the wagon after a month
September-Early November: Half-assed stuff.
Mid November to now: Body of a Spartan (only the exercise program, not the diet)

After reading this thread, here is what I think some of my problems are:
1) I did practically no compound lifts till recently
2) My form sucks. I was seriously fucking around with some dangerous stuff with the way I was deadlifting. I was using only my back and no legs. I'm spending the morning watching some instructional videos.
3) My diet sucks. Well, not during the whole year. For the first "section" when I was doing Gethin the first time, I was eating incredibly clean. Then I kind of drifted to just watching protein and now I'm just eating a deficit and not thinking about macros at all. Unfortunately, I still a High School student so I don't have as strict control over grocery shopping as I wish. I'm gonna have a talk with the mother next time she goes shopping, though.

What I don't think my problems are
1) Progressive overload. I always lift as heavy as I can, I'm just using shit form for some exercises. It maybe explains why some lifts are good for me and others suck.
2) Genetics. Genetics is a cop out excuse. My dad's family is huge. Even in the old black and white pictures. My great grandfather was an Irish bare knuckle boxing guy (and drunkard who blew all his money on booze).


I'm starting to get a bit skeptical of Body of a Spartan, seeing as he denies a majority of orthodox bodybuilding advice.

Post: #19

Victors advice is actually on point if you're not on steroids. you need to train in all the rep ranges (1-20+) as a natural. Finishing exercises such as isolations should not be your bread and butter ever, and you shouldn't use machines unless you're injured.

You stated you didn't lift compounds very frequently: that's your main problem. You will see huge differences by training what I previously reccomended (pick two on every single day you're in the gym).

As for the 6 days is too much camp, spread your schedule properly, use an active rest day. I run a 3-day split, have an active rest day of cardio and abs, and then judge how I'm feeling: if I'm not nearly as strong, I still lift light compounds even if I'm not nearly 100%.

Post: #20

(12-10-2014 12:39 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I would rather look like Conan the Barbarian and only be able to bench press 150lbs then look like a average Joe and be able to bench 350lbs......

From what I've read, this is not possible unless you are on steroids. Natural trainees need to lift heavy (80%+ of 1RM) regularly to get bigger. Stronger = bigger.

In a study comparing with/without steroids, those who took steroids without even weight training put on more muscle than those who trained, but didn't use steroids.

Post: #21

Bro, fuck these pussies. Got an Iphone? Downloaded strong lifts 5x5. Do it. Do it some more. Don't complain. And keep doing it. YOU GOTTA GO HEAVY TO GET ANY SIGNIFICANT STRENGTH GAINS.

Post: #22

(12-10-2014 11:14 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(12-10-2014 12:39 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I would rather look like Conan the Barbarian and only be able to bench press 150lbs then look like a average Joe and be able to bench 350lbs......

From what I've read, this is not possible unless you are on steroids. Natural trainees need to lift heavy (80%+ of 1RM) regularly to get bigger. Stronger = bigger.

In a study comparing with/without steroids, those who took steroids without even weight training put on more muscle than those who trained, but didn't use steroids.

Post: #23

(12-10-2014 08:27 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  1) I did practically no compound lifts till recently

2) My form sucks.

3) My diet sucks.

You diagnosed your own problem. Get better in these areas.

---

Also, I suspect that you need more INTENSITY in your workouts. Lift with more passion and effort. Push yourself a bit more.

And, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible to lose large amounts of weight AND gain large amounts of strength AT THE SAME TIME.

The diet for these two goals are often very different. It's practically impossible to gain muscle when you are eating at a calorie deficient.

If you want to get stronger, you must eat more.

If you are concerned about putting on body fat, work out harder and eat only clean calories that are unlikely to turn into fat. (lean meats, fish, beans, quality rice, eggs, oatmeal, fruits/veggies, etc.)

Cut out the junk food expect on occasional "cheat days".

---

Basically, work out harder and eat better.

Eat more but eat "cleaner".

Post: #24

You should improve quickly at the compound lifts if you haven't been doing them already.

Just make sure to deadlift at least once a week (and more than 5 reps, this is not Starting Strength) and bench twice a week, hitting different rep ranges.

Post: #25

I don't usually push products, but it sounds like you're more concerned with putting on a lot of strength in a hurry. Starting Strength is good, but this program is a lot more specialized and it focuses on hammering two lifts five days a week. As a short term solution (2-4 months), you'll see your strength gains flying through the roof. That alone should give you motivation.

http://blackironbeast.com/power-to-the-people

I did it for about four months starting out and I went from a 225 lb deadlift to a 340 lb deadlift at 170 lbs. It's no long term program, but the idea is to build a general base level of strength and then use that newfound strength to lift heavier weights for more reps to induce hypertrophy. Rinse and repeat, you can use any two lifts (be it squat and overhead press, bench and deadlift, trap bar deadlift and push jerk, whatever). A guy your size just needs more practice with basic compound movements, the strength is there, just lying dormant.

Starting strength does the same thing, I figured I'd give you another idea for a program that focuses on building strength fast. Power to the People is not perfect, but the only way you could not build strength is if you never made it to the gym.