Post: #1

Hi, I'm new to the forum but I already get the general notion that this kind of discussion is uncommon and probably not too welcome here. Nonetheless, I have to ask since I think this community would be most qualified to give an honest and applicable answer. So here it goes...

I'm 23 and know about the red pill since 21. Before that I was super beta (from the following text you might get why) and I still have a lot to work on but I feel like I read and understood most of it and ever since I got into red pill/game theory + powerlifting, my interactions with girls (and also guys) are so much easier to understand and it's quite easy for me to build attaction and yadayadayada... my problem is that from what I understand now, I see my mom's life as pretty much fucked. I'd like to help her but have no idea what advice I should give her to turn it for the better. So if some of you (especially the older guys) would take the time and read this and give some advice on how to make the best of the situation, that would be greatly appreciated:

When she met my dad and in the 1,5 years prior to their marriage, he acted friendly and cooperative towards her. Yet once they married and I was born (which was planned), he completely turned into some fucked up psycho who just didn't bother to care in any way other than earn the money. I get that that is one of the number one priorities as a husband, but he literally did NOTHING else anymore. They didn't spend any of their free time together like normal people and like they used to prior to marriage (have hobbies, visit friends, go out, have sex, ... he even talked less and less to her when he got home in the evening). He also didn't really care for me a whole lot. Didn't talk to me much, didn't show me anything like how to do stuff, you know, he pretty much ignored me most of the time and didn't see it as his job to raise me... . So that whole family situation was pretty awkward and I don't know how he got that way but from what my uncle and my aunt (his siblings) told me, he used to be like that before he met my mom. So he basically just pretended to be somewhat normal for like 2 years and then just turned back to being a complete self-absorbed ass without any social skills and without any ability to live with another person. So even though my dad lived in the same house as me, I never really got to know him or learn from him... I basically had no actual dad, so it's no wonder I was beta throughout my teenage years. My mom decided to divorce him when I was 8 and I don't blame her for that at all. But since she was so disappointed by him and had several "emancipated" female friends plus the general (neo)feminism movement became popular in the mainstream around that time, she went a little towards that direction (even tho she isn't that extreme and even has one or two "red pill" beliefs). She never found a man since then who suited her and she is now 52 and also doesn't look that good anymore. She's not ugly but you know... . She does want to be in a monogamous relationship, but she says she doesn't want a man who just see's her as a cook and cleanign lady (implying that if a man expects her to cook, she feels disrespected; - considering her past experiences and what is propagated in the media right now, I can understand why she feels that way).
Some of you might say she hasn't "hit the wall" hard enough jet but you have to understand, that she did want a family, she did want to cook and raise kids (she actually wanted 2 but then realized that my dad was not the right person to do that with) and pretty much have a traditional family life and it wasn't her fault that this marriage failed. You'd have to know my father to understand that living with him in one household is just unbearable.

So my question is: should I aware her of red pill/game theory? Maybe give her some books to read (eg. David Deida) so that she understands her situation better? Or would that maybe make her come to the same conclusion as me: that she is at a dead end? Because that could trigger a depression-spiral for a long time. Is there any advice you would give her if you were in my place? Considering her age and her looks she can't be too picky anymore so the best advice I can come up with (as bad as it sounds) is marry some beta (maybe s.o. who is also divorced) with a good income who doesn't smell too bad. But I would feel bad telling her that and maybe some of you have a better solution.

Thanks.

TL;DR: My mom's marriage fucked up 15 years ago but it wasn't her fault. She didn't find anyone good since then but wants a reationship/marriage. She's 52, looks average/slightly below average for her age, thus doesn't have too many options left. What advice could I give her? Aware her of the red pill or no?

Post: #2

You want girl advice?

Post: #3

The only tip I can provide is from the tip of my.......

Post: #4

Come on guys, he's asking for help.

I'll try but have to be brief. My thoughts:

You have no idea why this happened. Don't waste effort trying to figure it out. Forget about advising anyone unless they ask for your advice, especially a parent. Support her as best you can with time/money/love. Get her set up for the future financially without prying into details. Resolve any health issues asap. I think dropping the red pill has 0% chance of working. Get her in to self-improvement, whatever that means to her.

Good Luck!

Post: #5

Mothers of grown men dont need to worry about hitting the wall. They only need to stay healthy, stay happy and stay busy.

She is in control of her health, so just make sure she knows as much as possible about good diet and nutrition. A lot of women this age grew up on whole foods but switched to process foods due to convenience while raising families.

For a mother of a grown son to be happy, she needs to know that you are on your path to becoming a good man. This is all good mothers worry about. Their sons.

Your mom should be staying busy. Its even more important at her age to do so. My mother, who is only a little older than yours, has part time work, volunteers with all sorts of charities, helps out younger families with their children, has a craft room and massive Pinterest account, etc. The downfall of women at this age is to become a constant worrier or 'hand wringer'.

If those things are in order, she will be living a happy, healthy life and most men of her age group that are single and lonely will be lining up to spend time with her if that is what she feels she is lacking.

Take the advice on here, become a man that a mother would be proud of. That's basically it.

Post: #6

1. Post on other threads for a while so we can get to know you.

2. ^^^ Oh...as I type this...What Laner said ^^^^

3. Don't be a troll

Post: #7

Thanks @Enigneer and @Laner. I think you're right about the Red Pill not promising a positive impact in her situation so I guess I'm gonna drop that idea. I just felt like I let her down if I didn't tell her about it since it would explain several things that went bad in the past.
As to me becoming successful/s.o. she can be proud of I think I'm on the best way. It's just that even if I became super successful that still wouldn't change the fact of her growing old lonely. But afterall I might not be able to change anything about it and all I can do is support her the way you two suggested. Thank you for your time.

@heavy: I love trolling but I understand that it isn't welcome in this forum and I will respect that, don't worry. I also plan on posting on other threads in the future but won't have the time for that in the next month due to finals. When I post, I will do so with a different username. I read in this forum for a while now and like it a lot because there isn't as much BS as in other forums and it is well moderated. So if I actually post regularly I don't want other members to know about my whole fucked up family background. I created this username specifically for this one question and would delete it when there are no more replies to this thread but the forum doesn't allow that.

If anyone has other suggestions to make, I will check back here after finals and read them all.

Thank you.

Post: #8

(01-06-2015 05:34 PM)nlogax Wrote:  Thanks @Enigneer and @Laner. I think you're right about the Red Pill not promising a positive impact in her situation so I guess I'm gonna drop that idea. I just felt like I let her down if I didn't tell her about it since it would explain several things that went bad in the past.
As to me becoming successful/s.o. she can be proud of I think I'm on the best way. It's just that even if I became super successful that still wouldn't change the fact of her growing old lonely. But afterall I might not be able to change anything about it and all I can do is support her the way you two suggested. Thank you for your time.

@heavy: I love trolling but I understand that it isn't welcome in this forum and I will respect that, don't worry. I also plan on posting on other threads in the future but won't have the time for that in the next month due to finals. When I post, I will do so with a different username. I read in this forum for a while now and like it a lot because there isn't as much BS as in other forums and it is well moderated. So if I actually post regularly I don't want other members to know about my whole fucked up family background. I created this username specifically for this one question and would delete it when there are no more replies to this thread but the forum doesn't allow that.

If anyone has other suggestions to make, I will check back here after finals and read them all.

Thank you.

Thats retarded. No one is going to judge you based on your family. They will, however, judge the shit out of you based on your desire to improve yourself and your community.

So.

Stop being a pussy.

Post: #9

Here's a tip for you: forget about your mother; track down your father and ask him why he punched out on his marriage. Sounds like he was a classic beta who fell in the beta trap of marriage, and I bet he had his reasons for detaching himself.

You claim to be "red pill," but you're still putting your mom on a pedestal:

- The failure of her marriage? His fault, even though she filed.
- You were a beta in h.s.? His fault.
- Can't find a man in 15 years? Not her fault.
- Can't get her shit together at age 52? You'll save her.
- Mystified why no man will wife her up at age 52, when she's not attractive, won't cook, won't clean, etc.
- Your solution? Inflict your mother on another hapless beta, preferably one who has already been ass-raped by the American legal system. [p.s. I wish your dad was in your life, because this alone merits your ass-whooping by him.]

Your mom has dug herself into a hole. Do you really want to climb into that hole and try and lift her out of it?

Post: #10

My own mother is basically a worthless bitch. It took me a long time to realize that she didn't want a solution for her own problems, she wanted someone to listen while she could endlessly bitch about them. "Red pill" or not, it really doesn't matter what she thinks because she will not do anything for herself.

Your mother fucked up, and it didn't happen overnight. It was a combination of bad choices that she made for years and years, because making bad choices and feeling like shit all the time is easier than actually fixing your problems.

You've likely bought into the idea that your mother is an angel, or at the very least a victim in a sad story where she's center stage. My own mother did things like that, sometimes she would drag random white knight fuckers into our own family dramas when dad was being an angry drunk. Nothing is a secret with her and every even gets spun in her favor to make it look like she's not to blame and it just happened.

I wouldn't be surprised if your mother pulled the exact same shit. The other problem with your big tirade against your dad is that, the lens that you saw him through when you were 8 years old is going to be much different than it would be today. I used to hate my father, but after growing up and realizing what a horrible cunt my mother was, I don't really blame him much anymore. I would not want to be married to my mother, either.

Post: #11

I thought we didn't do female improvement here. It's rule #1 in the goddamn game manual: never take a woman serious

Post: #12

OP, where did you ever get this idea that the RVF or the "red pill" could or would help out your mom?

Post: #13

OP is definitely mom-trolling.

Post: #14

(01-06-2015 12:06 PM)nlogax Wrote:  She does want to be in a monogamous relationship, but she says she doesn't want a man who just see's her as a cook and cleanign lady (implying that if a man expects her to cook, she feels disrespected; - considering her past experiences and what is propagated in the media right now, I can understand why she feels that way).

She's looking at this wrong, as you know, but reframing it is more effective than opposing it. Cooking and cleaning isn't a service - it's a way of showing a man she cares for him. There's nothing wrong with caring for the person she loves.

You need to find a way to pitch that so she rethinks this belief she's built up in her mind. It's not an easy thing to do to get someone to rethink their beliefs when they're in their 50s, but I'm able to do it with my mother, who is around the same age. If she respects you as a thinking person you can pull it off. I don't know your relationship so cannot comment - in many ways, my mother looks up to me, oddly enough.

You also need to make her see that her negative experiences with your father are painting her perceptions of all men unfairly. This is easy to point out; when she's being negative, simply call it out, even sarcastically, and she won't be able to help but reflect on it after the conversation moves on.

Not many things are scarier to aging women than the realization that they themselves might be responsible for pushing any remaining chances for love away.

Quote:
So my question is: should I aware her of red pill/game theory? Maybe give her some books to read (eg. David Deida) so that she understands her situation better?

She's an aging woman. Don't give her books written by and for young men. That's arrogant.

She has lived a lot more life than you. She may know more than you think.

But if you do want to somehow introduce her to these types of ideas, start her off with something like "The War On Men," which was written by a woman around her age. She'd at least receive that better.

When it comes to a 50-year-old woman, I don't know that rewriting her concept of gender dynamics is necessary or realistic. If these things were going to be rewritten for her, they'd be rewritten with a return to the past. Maybe by reading books about what the world was like when she was a child, and reflecting, most likely alone, on the things the world has lost.

Or maybe there are relationship experts writing for Baby Boomers that have more old-fashioned subdued gender beliefs tampered down just enough to appeal to this audience. These writers probably know a lot more about finding love at 50 than you or I do.

I don't know that it's your job to save your mother's future shot at relationships. Many people who haven't figured it out at this stage in life either a) will never figure it out or b) will get around to meeting someone they can establish a livable harmony with in their own time and on their own mutual terms.

I would worry about strengthening your relationship with her instead - it sounds like you guys care about each other. I would worry about her continuing to have a social life as she ages, and if she's not depressed being single, let the rest work itself out on its own, if it does at all.

Quote: Or would that maybe make her come to the same conclusion as me: that she is at a dead end?

The only dead end is when you're dead.

Quote:Is there any advice you would give her if you were in my place?

Not unless she asked. And then I would tell her what I honestly thought but without saying something cruel like just find someone who doesn't smell bad.

Put yourself in her position and think of the benefits of what she's looking for - not the disadvantages of what she can no longer have. You're thinking of this as a 20-year-old who still highly values looks and vanity and sees her predicament as something sad, pathetic, and uncomfortable to talk about.

You need to think about it from her perspective, a perspective from which good things to talk about are harmony, having company as you get older, and having someone to do fun things with. Someone that knows how to make her laugh and has a good smile. These mean a lot more to her than her price on the market at this point - unless she's not come to terms with her age at all yet, in which case she's got some real issues with psychological development.

Talk about the good things and forget about the bad. Talk without having some goal of planting some type of red pill seed in her mind or hatching some relationship idea. Just connect with her and be genuine.

Not that she's necessarily anywhere near death - she's not that old - but she won't be alive forever. None of us will.

So just enjoy it while it lasts.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #15

OK, finals are over and i finally get a chance to comment on your replies.

HANNIBAL

(01-07-2015 11:53 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  You've likely bought into the idea that your mother is an angel, or at the very least a victim in a sad story where she's center stage.

That's not it. I understand that she is responsible for a lot of bad things that happened to her. But knowing her personality I also know that she is like a leaflet in the wind. Very confused in life and labile. She tries her best but it often doesn't go as intended. So yes, I might excuse more than I would with other people, but I am fully aware of that fact, which makes it different from falling into a potential emotional victim-scam by her, as you say your mother did to you.

(01-07-2015 11:53 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  The other problem with your big tirade against your dad is that, the lens that you saw him through when you were 8 years old is going to be much different than it would be today. I used to hate my father, but after growing up and realizing what a horrible cunt my mother was, I don't really blame him much anymore. I would not want to be married to my mother, either.

I do know my father. I visit him from time to time. I think worse of him today than I did in the past. Although yes, I wouldn't want to be married to my mom either. I cannot understand how anyone would have wanted to marry any of them.

Thanks for your input.

HADES

(01-07-2015 03:49 PM)Hades Wrote:  OP, where did you ever get this idea that the RVF or the "red pill" could or would help out your mom?

The more experienced guys here are experts on male-female interaction. Since I want to help my mom in that area I thought, best advice could come from a community whose members dedicated a large part of their lives towards understanding this topic. And I was right. Laner and Beyond Borders helped a lot.


BEYOND BORDERS
I agree with everything you said. Especially

(01-07-2015 04:28 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Talk without having some goal of planting some type of red pill seed in her mind

I actually did that sometimes with good intentions but without reflecting too much. I guess it's not the way to go. I'll try to stop that.

Thanks for your input.

Now for some negativity:
NOT DEAD YET

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  track down your father and ask him why he punched out on his marriage.

I am still in contact with my father and even lived with him between ages 13 and 19 for reasons not relevant to the question at hand. We often talked about the marriage and the divorce. None of that has to do with how I should approach the situation with my mom.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  Sounds like he was a classic beta who fell in the beta trap of marriage, and I bet he had his reasons for detaching himself.

He is quite the opposite of beta, though not alpha either. He is basically just an asshole towards himself and the people around him. What does that have to do with my question?

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  You claim to be "red pill," but you're still putting your mom on a pedestal:

- The failure of her marriage? His fault, even though she filed.

Nope. I always attributed 100% of the fault to my mom and only later discovered that both fucked up.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  - You were a beta in h.s.? His fault.

THat's right. Mother's job: care for her son emotionally and physically. Father's job: Lead by example, educate and raise his son to be confident, masculine and self-sufficient. My mom fucked up on the part of providing emotional stability but a lot of it is because of the fact that the whole situation was too much for her, because he made her take all the burden. He didn't even try - she did. Red Pill = not looking away from (often uncomfortable) truth. Red Pill ≠blaming women for every evil that ever happens on earth.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  - Can't find a man in 15 years? Not her fault.

Where did I say that?

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  - Can't get her shit together at age 52? You'll save her.

I try to help her, because she is (despite her fuckups still) family. Did your Red Pill make you abandon everyone who needs help after they made bad decisions? That must have been a generic with lots of (-)-racemates. I know the rule don't surround yourself with people who bring you down but fuck it I'm not willing to apply that to close family members. You can know something is bad for you but still do it. Doesn't make you blue pill.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  - Mystified why no man will wife her up at age 52, when she's not attractive, won't cook, won't clean, etc.

I'm not mystified. Where did I say that? She is relatively attractive. For her age, it's reasonably ok. I also didn't say she won't cook etc. I said she doesn't want to do it if "he" sees her as a free of charge maid.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  - Your solution? Inflict your mother on another hapless beta, preferably one who has already been ass-raped by the American legal system.

I said the best advice I could come up with was to marry a beta. MAYBE (not "preferably") s.o. who is divorced as well - because then they would both have a history to which they can relate. Also, I don't live in the US but in Europe. Another self-centered assumption on your part.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  [p.s. I wish your dad was in your life, because this alone merits your ass-whooping by him.]

Up to this point I stayed pretty calm despite the fact that you interpreted all kinds of baseless shit into my story that wasn't true at all and despite the impolite tone in your comment. Since I made this account specifically for this thread, I don't care to get banned for the following:
Fuck you, punk. While everyone else took the time to read my pretty long text and think about something useful to contribute and type that down, all you did was skim the text, add baseless bullshit and make stupid assumptions and then wrote down some miserable negativity essay. You made my story fit your worldview so that you could spit BS that makes yourself feel good about yourself. You want my dad to beat me for trying to improve my moms life? How about I teach you some respect you dumb fuck.
/rant.

(01-07-2015 07:46 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  Your mom has dug herself into a hole. Do you really want to climb into that hole and try and lift her out of it?

I'm just gonna quote the man, who's forum you are a part of:
"4. Give back to those who took care of you. When you were growing up, who looked after you? Who helped make you who you are? Chances are you’ve yet to return the favor. Starting with our parents, we take for granted those who have helped us along the way. Right now they could probably receive help with something that you’re able to give. Repaying them is a surefire way of increasing their happiness, which in turn will make you happy. While I’m sure there are many starving kids in Africa who could use your help, there are people closer to you who could use it, too. Help them first."
http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-be-a-man


inb4 ban: Thanks to everyone who made sincere contributions. Bye.

Post: #16

Some thoughts.

I liked his response. I'd say we keep him. Maybe on the condition he doesn't dick around with more accounts.

And newbies with little or no reps, stop trolling other newbies. It's unbecoming and we will sacrifice your penis to the altar of the game gods to display your pussyness.

Post: #17

It's admirable that you want to improve your mother's romantic relationships and quality of life but, I don't think exposing her to red pill thinking will be well received. As anyone who has ever been to blue pill relationship counseling can tell you when men discuss a problem it's to come to a solution. Women on the other hand are looking for affirmation of their emotions and opinions/actions when they discuss a problem. Hence the rise of yougogirllllism in our culture.

What you're doing is similar to the anthropomorphizing that people do with their pets. You're andropomorphizing your mother, you're hoping you can logically interact with her to help her solve her problems like she's a man. I understand how you feel, my mother is an overweight who was easily an 8.5/9 in her day. Unfortunately like many nice girls she had a thing for bad boys and a complete disinterest in the large number of affluent beta's who pursued her.

I would like you to consider the possibility that exposing her to red pill thinking could significantly hurt her emotionally. As an example how would a woman in her 50's feel when she discovered the complete disdain that we have for women in their early 30's as relationship prospects?

I suggest that when your mother vents her relationship problems or dissatisfaction with being single you treat it like what it is. A request for you to validate her feelings and life choices.