Post: #1

@You guys that are currently in East Asia or SEA,

Do you ride scooters or motorbikes regularly to your place of work, restaurants, girls' apartments, and other places?

How often do you fear getting into an accident and risking serious injuries, or even your life?

Post: #2

Riding motorcycle is dangerous anywhere in the world.

I would check how much it costs to treat at least broken legs.

In states, without an insurance, you are really fucked. ($8000 just taking ambulance, few x-rays and a shot of morphine)

People can't seem to understand here when I tell them 'hey it used to cost me like $5 bucks to take x-rays when I was little back in my country'

Post: #3

I whip around a scooter. Most convenient form of travel I recommend it.

Thing is though I see a scooter accident it seems every other day. People drive like idiots, especially other foreigners. Just take it easy on the roads at first and get a feel, and never drive on the aggressive side. Seems like more people drive aggressively on their scooters than not here in Taiwan. The Asian rat race can get ugly if you get too sucked in by it.

Post: #4

Every country has a certain vibe when it comes to riding motorbikes.

The way you ride in Vietnam is very, very different than the way you'd ride in China or Thailand for example.

I very rarely ride a motorbike. I had an accident a number of years ago where I flew off the thing, and it's an image and sensation I can't kick from my brain. Hence, I ride with it in the back of my mind always, and I never feel 100% comfortable on the thing. I'm more reactive on it than proactive, which is exactly what you don't want to do.

Conversely, I whip around pretty good on a bicycle. Good exercise everyday, and I'm more nimble on it. In good traffic here in Vietnam I'm actually able to get around quicker than a motorbike. I love it.

Post: #5

Yea, I recently got owned by a van while riding my scooter in Chiang Mai.

I went right into the windshield. No helmet. Somehow, I barely had a scratch on me.

The fucked up thing is...I had to pay to fix up the bitch's van!

Post: #6

I rode a medium size scooter (Honda PCX150) about 5000km throughout Thailand over a 6 month period and survived; barely.

I would ride defensively. Everyone on the road is trying to kill you; You need that mentality to survive there.
I've read way too many stories about young guys on holiday dying in SEA because some moron U-turned in-front of them.

Then you have the poorly maintained roads; the slippery conditions (dirt, gravel, pot-holes) that make riding a bike life threatening in any conditions, plus you add in the fact that there's huge trucks driving right beside you; so if you do fall down, you have little to no chance of surviving.

Be careful out there

Post: #7

I have seen a handful of accidents in China. So many crazy drivers. It makes me reconsider buying one. On the other hand, I could easily avoid crowded subways during rush hour and annoying taxi drivers.

I'm tempted..

Post: #8

I don't think I could ever use a scooter in SEA. I visit Best Gore pretty regularly, and the number of people in Thailand who get horribly maimed/flattened/twisted/burnt/dismembered is incredible. Also, if you do happen to be lying there on the road, with one of your legs half ripped off, and your face messed up, you can apparently expect a crowd to form, and everybody will mill about with their phone recording you rather than help.

Post: #9

Not worth it in my opinion, well Thailand anyways. Here the majority of the people I know have had some minor scrape or other, and I know plenty more who've been fucked up pretty bad.

There's two dudes in my apartment building hobbling around with broken legs as we speak from scooter accidents, neither of which were their fault (well, apparently.. )

A motorbike or scooter is risky at the best of times but the standard of driving here is too shitty to seriously contemplate it.

Added into the mix the lax DUI laws, farangs stumbling out of Spiceys and Zoes with a skinful on them and the locals and their own DUI attitudes and it makes for a less than safe driving experience.

Think I saw a few days on Thaivisa that Thailand has the second worse road traffic fatality rates in the world, and with a quick spin around Chiang Mai it's not hard to see why.

Post: #10

Hellyes. Every time I'm there.
No visit to SEA is complete without some scooter/motorbike adventure.

Loving it!

Post: #11

Reading that a few guys here have been involved in some accident.

The most dangerous situations for me has always been in more touristy places.
Stupid tourists who are drunk as fuck or high on drugs who are driving recklessly without a helmet.
Surprise surprise that you see many of them with their legs wrapped in bandaid.

On Koh Chang last summer I almost got smashed by two Finns who were driving the wrong in lane in a downhill curve. These guys happened to live in the same bungalow resort as me and I saw them drinking heavily,smoking weed and eating mushrooms all day long.
They were super shitfaced and almost unable to even stand on their legs.

They pissed me off bigtime, I slammed one of them to the ground and told them that I will kill them if I see them driving shitfaced like that again as long as I'm on the same island.
Not cool.
Unfortunately there are people driving around like that every day in SEA.

So yes. Drive defensively in SEA.
A lot of morons on the road there.

Post: #12

I lost my bike in Croatia on a road near the beach completely sober. Tight turn a bit too quick with sand on the road.

Post: #13

As another poster pointed out, it kind of depends were you are. In Vietnam the speed limit is 60km (about 38 miles per hour) and even then it's hard to get going that fast most places since there is so much traffic.

The population mostly gets around on scooters and they are very conditioned to how to react. I've sat outside a cafe watching a busy intersection for hours and never seen a wipe out - not that they never happen, just that it isn't as common as you might think. Only relatively recently did they start requiring helmets, but even then not everyone wears one, and most of the ones that do are wearing crappy ones like what you'd get at a baseball came in the US.

I was just there riding a trail bike for a few days, and though I love a regular bike compared to a scooter, the small scooters actually make more sense as they are much easier to manipulate in tight city traffic than a full sized bike. Of course once we got off road it was no contest - trail bike was obviously made for that stuff. But a big bike like a Harley or similar (assuming you can find one over there) is best reserved for evening cruising or other times when maybe there's less traffic on the road.

The more cars there are on the road, generally speaking, the more dangerous it gets for the riders since so many brain dead car drivers are fiddling with their iPhones as they drive nowadays.

Even in first world countries the riding habits vary though - there were things I saw done in Italy but not France, and things I saw in both places which would have got me a ticket in record time in the US. Take some observations as to what's acceptable behavior (lane splitting, etc.) before you start doing things differently than everyone else.

Post: #14

I bought a shitty Honda Win clone (100cc) in early September 2014 in HCMC. I rode it all over the country and sold it in Hanoi in late October. I am an experienced rider and I took a real motorcycle jacket (flourescent green) on the trip. I bought a helmet in HCMC. It was a piece of shit that would not pass as a legit helmet in the US.

I haul ass when I ride, because I want to keep the action in front of me and not have to worry much about what is coming from behind. In most of my Vietnam riding this was workable, even with only 100 cc's.

Traffic in Vietnam is not as crazy as it appears to be at first glance. There are patterns and unwritten rules. Might makes right though, and you had better always be on the lookout for 4 wheeled vehicles and drive defensively. I was never down, but I was actually struck (sideswiped) in congested traffic by a slow moving van going in the same direction that I was. He tried to get me to stop, but my body language conveyed to him that he was getting ready to get his ass beaten by a gringo wearing gloves, a helmet and an armored jacket. I recommend staying away from Highway 1 as much as possible. It is more dangerous and is unremarkable riding except for the Hai Van Pass, and even that pales in comparison to the roads to the West in the Central Highlands.

I rode the Honda clone to Hanoi and then rented a Honda XR 150, an enduro type bike, for an 8 day loop up through the mountains to the North and far Northeast of the country. Cost was $25 per day for a bike which the guy told me sells new for $3000. If I were living in Vietnam I would buy a new or newish XR 150. It seems like a small bike by US standards but it was plenty fast for Vietnam and the suspension ate up the shitty roads. A big bike is overkill there because speed limits are slow, traffic is congested, and you want a more lightweight nimble bike to move in traffic.

Post: #15

I thought of a few more Vietnam-specific things to add.

As a tourist, you are not a legal operator of a motor vehicle in Vietnam. There is a process for you to go through but it takes weeks and you don't have that time unless you are a fairly long term visitor. That said, there seems to be a concerted effort on the part of Vietnamese law enforcement to ignore tourists operating motorcycles illegally in their country. I have heard various theories on this, ranging from hassling tourists is bad business because tourists bring a lot of money into the country to cops don't speak English and don't want to be put into an awkward communication situation. For whatever reason, I found that most traffic cops avoided making eye contact with me when I went through their roadside setups.

The beige uniformed cops are traffic cops. They will have one set up out front, and and on or more set up to write tickets or most commonly shake drivers down for bribes. You are supposed to stop if they point the white baton at you. Only once did a traffic cop point his baton at me...

About 40 miles south of Hanoi I was hauling ass down the road, riding defensively in fairly heavy traffic consisting of about 95% motorbikes. I passed over a freeway/interstate looking road and noticed that the road had huge signs with the outline of a motorbike and the universal circle with a diagonal line over it. I looked ahead and noted that my road made a 270 degree loop and would put me ON that no-motorbike road. There was no exit except a U turn against traffic. Shit.

So I got onto the road , lowered my head for better aerodynamics and pinned the throttle. I was the only motorbike on the road. But I was hauling ass, passing trucks and even a few cars. People in other vehicles are staring at me. I'm thinking. "Exit, where's an exit? No cops. I don't want to see any cops."

About 5 miles down the road, no exit yet, and I see them. Traffic cops are set up on the right side. One out front and a cluster of them about 150 feet ahead. I am trying to be invisible. See photo below to understand why this is not working.

The cop looks at me, looks puzzled, and points his baton at me. At this point I make a snap decision. If a cop in the cluster points at me or waves me down, I will stop. If they ignore me then I will dummy up and keep on going. Throttle was still wide open. The cluster ignored me, I crouched lower, and I jumped off on an exit which came up about 4 miles later. Then I fought motorbike traffic into Hanoi from the south.

Pics or it didn't happen:

Here is a piece of shit Chinese Honda Win clone. For the love of humanity don't do it. Even a scooter-looking bike like a Honda Wave or a Yamaha Nouvo is better, much better. Picture taken on Ho Chi Minh trail in the Central Highlands.


The beige uniform cops are traffic cops. Here are a couple of them posted up at the southeast corner of Hoan Kiem Lake in Hanoi.


Here is a pic of the good bike I rented, a Honda XR 150. Picture taken in the mountainous Northeast of Vietnam.

Post: #16

I still haven't done much riding on a scooter here in Taipei. Since they drive on the opposite side of the road compared to back home, it continues to deter me.

Since the MRT is great and cabs are cheap I haven't really had the need for one yet.

Also.. I see a few accidents every month.

Post: #17

Having been in Thailand ten times already, and many countries in Asia, I can say riding a motorbike is the best. I do not even have a license, so I drive the scooters. Did a ten day Mae Hong Son loop on one last year, drove 1500 kilometers. Was awesome. Will be back in May and going to do the Chiang Rai loop. It really gives you an amazing feeling of freedom.

Having said that, apparently Thailand is one of the unsafest countries to ride any vehicle in, and I've seen plenty of crazy accidents. Mostly they are not even your fault, but if you do get in a big accident you're fucked, either because no one helps you or because you are blamed.

Still, I think it's awesome and would always want to drive, especially in Thailand.

Post: #18

I rode a honda 250 two stroke around Thailand in 1999. It was insane fun, especially in the mountains during downpours.

But yeah, it is definitely dangerous. More dangerous than anywhere else in the world? Its hard to say. I had a very close call in Mexico.

I almost tomohawked into the forest in Washington.

My chain jammed and I nearly skid off the road on a downhill section in northern Greece.

I would never change this for anything. The feelings I get when I rip through a foreign countryside is worth every bit of danger. I dont want to die on a motorcycle, but I told myself a long time ago that dedicating my life to riding would up my chances. Whats a guy to do? I want to see the world, but I have no desire to see it from the inside of a bus.

Post: #19

Nice to see some fellow bike enthusiasts on here. I have done most of south east Asia on a bike, there are some incredible places especially in the North of Thailand. I did Goa and Rajasthan last year and the biking was unbelievable. I highly recommend.

Post: #20

I had an e-bike I bought for US$50 when I lived in China. Probably 50cc, it was a total pain in the ass to charge because it needed to be plugged in every other day. While it was pretty fun I should note that I was in no way driving legally in a place notorious for bad drivers. I was in one accident where a woman riding a bicycle crashed into me while I was stopped at a red light. In hindsight I was super lucky.

One guy I worked with crashed into an old man on his e-bike, tried to make it a hit and run and drive away, instead he proceeded to get beaten by a couple bystanders. He threw a punch at the first guy to come up to him and then everyone nearby joined together to beat his ass. He literally had a shoe print bruise on his chest he was showing off later. The cops came to the scene, he ended up needing to pay US$8k to the old man and had to call our boss to come translate for him at the police station. Suffice to say his contract wasn't renewed and he needed to stay in country while working to pay off the fine.

Be careful if you get one, even if you don't injure yourself, injuring someone else will probably come with a host of problems.

Post: #21

They're insanely dangerous.

Also pretty fun.

First thing I did after moving to Thailand was have dinner with a friend of mine who works for the embassy in Bangkok. She begged me to never ride a scooter, because she has to deal with the parade of guys getting shipped home after accidents.

But, I only lasted a few days before I rented mine. A few days after that I was done with helmets. So stupid. But so fun...

Post: #22

I have driven motorcycles and scooters all over SEA.

Thailand:
Bangkok - Everyday for years.
Pattaya
Koh Toa
Koh Phangan
Koh Samui
Koh Samet - You can get bad ass scooters with big dirt tires as most roads are dirt/sand.
Koh Chang
Phuket
Krabi
Chiang Mai
Pai
Every loop in the north. Went on epic trips along the Burma border and would run into military check points and over to the golden triangle.

Laos:
Luang Prabang
Vang Vieng

Cambodia:
Phnom Penh
Siem Reap
Sihanoukville

Vietnam
Nha Trang
Da Nang
Sapa and surrounding areas - Talked about it here (/thread-25448-...#pid483410)

Indonesia
Bali

Philippines
Manila - Everyday for a year and almost everywhere within 200 miles of the city.
Cebu




In most places I rented. Ranging from the basic scooter up to a Honda CBR500R. I have also owned two bikes during my time in SEA. In Bangkok I owned a Honda Scoopy and drove the shit out of it. I went to every corner of that city and down every soi.





In Manila I owned a Honda CBR 150R




If you are interested I talked in detail about buying a motorcycle in the Philippines.
/thread-29738-...#pid579595
/thread-29738-...#pid579635

Quote:How often do you fear getting into an accident and risking serious injuries, or even your life?

You must know there is high risk this will happen and you need to decide if you are willing to take that risk.

I have driven 10's of thousands of miles in SEA with out any major accidents but have had several small accidents. I have driven motorcycles since I was a kid so take that into consideration.

The amount of accidents I have seen would blow your mind. I witnessed a guy die right before my eyes on Ekamai in Bangkok. I had a guy I hung out with a few times that got drunk and drove home from the bars in Phuket and smacked head on with a truck and died.

If you have never driven motorcycles before proceed with caution. If you really want to learn go to an island with little traffic and start there. Even with experience some people can not handle the fact there is almost no rules and the chaos is just incredibly stressful and not worth it.

What is your experience in driving motorcycles?


A few tips...
Don't drive drunk. Seems obvious but most people do it.
Buy a great helmet. If you are paying less than $50USD it is not good enough.
Wear proper clothing. That means no shorts and flip flops.
Don't have heavy people on the back riding with you, it is to easy for an inexperienced driver to loose balance.

Depending on each country you need to learn how to bribe cops properly, but that is a long discussion.

If anyone has questions about motorcycles in SEA just let me know.

Post: #23

(01-12-2015 02:25 PM)DirectDanger Wrote:  I have driven motorcycles and scooters all over SEA.

Thailand:
Bangkok - Everyday for years.
Pattaya
Koh Toa
Koh Phangan
Koh Samui
Koh Samet - You can get bad ass scooters with big dirt tires as most roads are dirt/sand.
Koh Chang
Phuket
Krabi
Chiang Mai
Pai
Every loop in the north. Went on epic trips along the Burma border and would run into military check points and over to the golden triangle.

Laos:
Luang Prabang
Vang Vieng

Cambodia:
Phnom Penh
Siem Reap
Sihanoukville

Vietnam
Nha Trang
Da Nang
Sapa and surrounding areas - Talked about it here (/thread-25448-...#pid483410)

Indonesia
Bali

Philippines
Manila - Everyday for a year and almost everywhere within 200 miles of the city.
Cebu




In most places I rented. Ranging from the basic scooter up to a Honda CBR500R. I have also owned two bikes during my time in SEA. In Bangkok I owned a Honda Scoopy and drove the shit out of it. I went to every corner of that city and down every soi.





In Manila I owned a Honda CBR 150R




If you are interested I talked in detail about buying a motorcycle in the Philippines.
/thread-29738-...#pid579595
/thread-29738-...#pid579635

Quote:How often do you fear getting into an accident and risking serious injuries, or even your life?

You must know there is high risk this will happen and you need to decide if you are willing to take that risk.

I have driven 10's of thousands of miles in SEA with out any major accidents but have had several small accidents. I have driven motorcycles since I was a kid so take that into consideration.

The amount of accidents I have seen would blow your mind. I witnessed a guy die right before my eyes on Ekamai in Bangkok. I had a guy I hung out with a few times that got drunk and drove home from the bars in Phuket and smacked head on with a truck and died.

If you have never driven motorcycles before proceed with caution. If you really want to learn go to an island with little traffic and start there. Even with experience some people can not handle the fact there is almost no rules and the chaos is just incredibly stressful and not worth it.

What is your experience in driving motorcycles?


A few tips...
Don't drive drunk. Seems obvious but most people do it.
Buy a great helmet. If you are paying less than $50USD it is not good enough.
Wear proper clothing. That means no shorts and flip flops.
Don't have heavy people on the back riding with you, it is to easy for an inexperienced driver to loose balance.

Depending on each country you need to learn how to bribe cops properly, but that is a long discussion.

If anyone has questions about motorcycles in SEA just let me know.

I drove in pretty much the same places as you, and the Honda Scoopy is a fun little thing. Did the Mae Hong Son loop last year, and was awesome. Any recommendations on the Chiang Rai loop? I am going to do it at the end of April and I know the basic route (got the GT-Rider map), but do you have any must see places on the loop?

Thanks

Post: #24

(01-12-2015 03:11 PM)Thaitanium Wrote:  I drove in pretty much the same places as you, and the Honda Scoopy is a fun little thing. Did the Mae Hong Son loop last year, and was awesome. Any recommendations on the Chiang Rai loop? I am going to do it at the end of April and I know the basic route (got the GT-Rider map), but do you have any must see places on the loop?

Thanks

It has been 10 years since I did that loop. One thing I remember very clearly is staying at a place right on the river in Mae Sai not far from the bridge for the border crossing with Burma. You can sit on your balcony in the morning and watch dozens of people wading through the river making there way from Burma to Thailand. Then in the evening you see it all happen again but going in the other direction. All of them are coming over to work each day. Crazy to see.

Post: #25

(01-13-2015 10:16 AM)DirectDanger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:11 PM)Thaitanium Wrote:  I drove in pretty much the same places as you, and the Honda Scoopy is a fun little thing. Did the Mae Hong Son loop last year, and was awesome. Any recommendations on the Chiang Rai loop? I am going to do it at the end of April and I know the basic route (got the GT-Rider map), but do you have any must see places on the loop?

Thanks

It has been 10 years since I did that loop. One thing I remember very clearly is staying at a place right on the river in Mae Sai not far from the bridge for the border crossing with Burma. You can sit on your balcony in the morning and watch dozens of people wading through the river making there way from Burma to Thailand. Then in the evening you see it all happen again but going in the other direction. All of them are coming over to work each day. Crazy to see.

I actually was in Mae Sai a few years back and crossed the border for a day. Did not see this though, thanks for the tip, I will probably have a look there again.