Post: #1

I’m facing an important dilemma. Without giving too much away, I work in Finance making low 6 figures. This position, on paper, is amazing -- solid company, excellent boss, 2 people reporting to me, and great benefits. Now my challenge is as follows:

- I’m getting really tired of the daily grind, however I need to be able to continue to build up the secondary (Real Estate) cash flow until I get to the point where I have enough $$s rolling in independent income. Right now I need the W-2s, income from job to have the security that I can continue to obtain conventional mortgages, have a war chest (down payments) for the property acquisitions, and funds set aside for emergencies.

- The problem with the job is that it’s 60 hours a week (easy). This doesn’t leave me with much more time to work on my RE acquisitions, particularly since I already spend 10 hours on property management for existing assets. I have a few options:

1. I can delegate my work to one of my direct reports (other one is a moron). However the issue with the more capable direct report is that he is typical finance douchebag, who wants to take all the glory, talk about all his accomplishments, and is generally described as a prick. I'm pretty sure that he is gunning for my position.

2. Keep grinding away at the day job while Real Estate hustling after work hours.

I feel pretty much in rock and hard place because I need the income from work while I can put my financial independence strategy in action.

I definitely know that others on the forum have gone through/are going through this type of dilemma and would like to hear some thoughts.

Post: #2

If you are making 6 figures a year, you should continue saving the majority of your income while keeping an eye on your RE business until you feel safe enough to quit your job. Your situation is still pretty comfortable making 6 figures, provided you don't blow all of your money away.

Don't delegate tasks to any of your subordinates. In fact, don't tell anyone what you are doing at your current job. It can only hurt you in the end.

You could find somebody who doesn't work with you to help you in your side business. Offer monetary incentives.

Keep grinding until you have enough savings to survive for one or two years. Then, give all your focus to your now side business.

There are people who don't even make a fraction of your income and still were able to launch successful business or transform a side business into their main source of income. If you have saved enough money and don't care about the corporate world, it might be time to take the plunge.

Post: #3

(02-10-2015 12:00 PM)southamerica Wrote:  If you are making 6 figures a year, you should continue saving the majority of your income while keeping an eye on your RE business until you feel safe enough to quit your job. Your situation is still pretty comfortable making 6 figures, provided you don't blow all of your money away.

Don't delegate tasks to any of your subordinates. In fact, don't tell anyone what you are doing at your current job. It can only hurt you in the end.

You could find somebody who doesn't work with you to help you in your side business. Offer monetary incentives.
Keep grinding until you have enough savings to survive for one or two years. Then, give all your focus to your now side business.

There are people who don't even make a fraction of your income and still were able to launch successful business or transform a side business into their main source of income. If you have saved enough money and don't care about the corporate world, it might be time to take the plunge.

+1 From me.

Yes, I have been saving (not as much as I like) but still have $100K saved plus additional cash flow coming into the properties that I already own. I like my job, however the hours and the nonsense is getting to me right now.

So you're saying that it might be worth it continue with the grueling schedule while making moves in RE? I think it may be time to get a property manager. I have a friend who is also investing, it might be time to lean on him for assistance as well.

Post: #4

I don't think your schedule is that grueling. It's not like you are a junior level investment banker or a medical resident, both of which routinely work 100 hour weeks.
You just sound a little burnt out. Are you getting enough vacation or exercise? Do you carve out a little time each week for a hobby (reading, photography, collecting something, really anything different)?
You should stay the course. It sounds like what you are doing is promising. If it was fun, people would do it for free.
Also, a dollar saved is a dollar earned. Take a look at your expenses. If you aren't already tracking everything, you should be. Figure out how to shave 10% or more off what you are spending.

Post: #5

(02-10-2015 12:17 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  I don't think your schedule is that grueling. It's not like you are a junior level investment banker or a medical resident, both of which routinely work 100 hour weeks.
You just sound a little burnt out. Are you getting enough vacation or exercise? Do you carve out a little time each week for a hobby (reading, photography, collecting something, really anything different)?
You should stay the course. It sounds like what you are doing is promising. If it was fun, people would do it for free.
Also, a dollar saved is a dollar earned. Take a look at your expenses. If you aren't already tracking everything, you should be. Figure out how to shave 10% or more off what you are spending.

VVV: I'm definitely feeling burnt out. Was working on a masters degree at night school (graduating this year), manage my own properties, plus the day job. Haven't taken a vacation since last June, haven't made time to hit the gym.

Honestly, the money is great, and I can't complain about the work either (besides the moronic and dickish direct reports) -- just feel like I'm in the rat race and see some great RE opportunities on the horizon. I'm all about creating options in life and for me, RE is the way to go. I have just been delayed in accomplishing what I had set out years ago (financial freedom, location independence) and you could say that I am frustrated by the lack of progress and looking for reasons (excuses?) for the delay.

Any advice on hitting the reset button? Keep in mind that I'm in Boston, where we are buried under a few feet of snow from the latest storm.

Post: #6

Now I understand your situation a little bit better. I still think you are in a very good position.

You talk about a friend who may be interested in investing. Why not ask him to give you a hand? Don't delegate tasks to strangers or people who may back-stab you due to jealousy or corporate BS, not only in your current job but in your RE business as well. There is no reason to let them know what you are doing.

Bottom line, stay the course until you are burnout (see above post) or don't give a damn anymore. Find somebody you trust to help you with your side business. You may have to offer an incentive, but that's a small price to pay for their trust and knowing what they are made of.

Post: #7

(02-10-2015 12:51 PM)southamerica Wrote:  Now I understand your situation a little bit better. I still think you are in a very good position.

You talk about a friend who may be interested in investing. Why not ask him to give you a hand? Don't delegate tasks to strangers or people who may back-stab you due to jealousy or corporate BS, not only in your current job but in your RE business as well. There is no reason to let them know what you are doing.

Bottom line, stay the course until you are burnout (see above post) or don't give a damn anymore. Find somebody you trust to help you with your side business. You may have to offer an incentive, but that's a small price to pay for their trust and knowing what they are made of.

Thank you. I get what you're saying and I completely agree that it's a cutthroat world where you can't rely on anyone. Your advice is very much in line with how I am (insular, keeping things to myself). I have started talking with the friend about the RE investing and he's definitely up for it. I have another buddy (an old friend) who could be convinced to take on the property management side as well. If I need to pay anyone, I'd rather give the money to someone I trust.

It does sound like I'm at burnout level and need to reset. Any advice on that?

Post: #8

As for a reset, I'm a big fan of the basics - body and mind. Do some kind of exercise at least 3x per week for your body, and something like read or visit a museum for your mind. Also, if you are eating crap, change that. Eating junk food and processed food can have a significant negative effect on your energy and mood.
I'm thinking of small things you can do without dramatically altering your life/schedule, and will be sustainable. A big vacation followed by a return to your same routine would just get you right back into a rut again.

Post: #9

As far as burnout goes.

1) Eliminate the problem that is burning you out - which right now seems like you can't quit
2) Minimize the problem that is burning you out - find a better way to deal with your staff to get stuff done without being the target of one of them. Ideally, you take the weaker one and coach him up. Get it clear his job is at stake and he needs to contribute and do better. Give him the better projects. It will help him build his resume, get him some glory but not at totally fucking you over
3) With the degree completed - that should free up time
4) Take a break - a mini vaction, amybe just a staycation. Stay at home and don't think about anything stressing you out
5) Visualize - know that all this pain is part of your journey to financial freedom. Therefore, don't look at it as a burden. Interpret the events in a different way. These things are helping me towards my goal of freedom. I am grateful to be in this position. Things like that.
6) Meditate - though I don't do this, I have heard people find it useful
7) Find a different way to make your RE business work while lowering stress
8) Workout if you are not
9) Find a way to relax a bit - I am constantly thinking about my work and investments, it does stress me while instead I should be enjoying it, so I am there with you
10) You could look into a new job, but that transition may not be worth it especially if your window before going on your own is small.
11) Map out of your timing to freedom - I.e. I need x ore properties at these figures to sustain me. Work backwards and figure out how many years it will take. You are a finance guy, you should be able to build a model based on savings, rents, etc. Then break them down into quarter goals. Celebrate at each milestone. When the joy seems too far away it is hard to get excited. But if you can see yourself having victories in small windows of time, then it makes it more sustainable.

Post: #10

(02-10-2015 02:09 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  As for a reset, I'm a big fan of the basics - body and mind. Do some kind of exercise at least 3x per week for your body, and something like read or visit a museum for your mind. Also, if you are eating crap, change that. Eating junk food and processed food can have a significant negative effect on your energy and mood.
I'm thinking of small things you can do without dramatically altering your life/schedule, and will be sustainable. A big vacation followed by a return to your same routine would just get you right back into a rut again.

Good advice all around. I can't really take a vacation because there is too much going on, however the other ideas are both valid and in line with what I used to do.

Post: #11

(02-10-2015 03:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  As far as burnout goes.

1) Eliminate the problem that is burning you out - which right now seems like you can't quit
2) Minimize the problem that is burning you out - find a better way to deal with your staff to get stuff done without being the target of one of them. Ideally, you take the weaker one and coach him up. Get it clear his job is at stake and he needs to contribute and do better. Give him the better projects. It will help him build his resume, get him some glory but not at totally fucking you over
3) With the degree completed - that should free up time
4) Take a break - a mini vaction, amybe just a staycation. Stay at home and don't think about anything stressing you out
5) Visualize - know that all this pain is part of your journey to financial freedom. Therefore, don't look at it as a burden. Interpret the events in a different way. These things are helping me towards my goal of freedom. I am grateful to be in this position. Things like that.
6) Meditate - though I don't do this, I have heard people find it useful
7) Find a different way to make your RE business work while lowering stress
8) Workout if you are not
9) Find a way to relax a bit - I am constantly thinking about my work and investments, it does stress me while instead I should be enjoying it, so I am there with you
10) You could look into a new job, but that transition may not be worth it especially if your window before going on your own is small.
11) Map out of your timing to freedom - I.e. I need x ore properties at these figures to sustain me. Work backwards and figure out how many years it will take. You are a finance guy, you should be able to build a model based on savings, rents, etc. Then break them down into quarter goals. Celebrate at each milestone. When the joy seems too far away it is hard to get excited. But if you can see yourself having victories in small windows of time, then it makes it more sustainable.

This is an excellent list -- this is why I come to RVF real talk and actionable advice.

I have started working on a model towards financial freedom, and really need to change that mindset. Today was a low point as I realized that I had so much to do, and not enough time to do it.

I'm trying to constantly push myself to do more with less time and after months and months of doing the same thing, I'm hitting that fatigue/burnout stage.

I really appreciate your advice here. If Financial Freedom is the goal then I should see this as a process not a burden. I am taking a step back tomorrow to relax/recharge.

Post: #12

Several thoughts:

- Gunning for your position is an act of disloyalty. Unless you're about to engineer your exit, I'd replace his ass. Blame it on "poor cultural fit"/usual BS.

- Why do you have a moron working for you? Replace/sell him too.

- When the time comes, don't quit. Get laid off with severance.

- Finally, as others said, don't leave your job just yet. You sound burned out. Get your fitness and diet sorted out. Take a vacation away from Boston. Delegate more bullshit. Replace the moron with a hot female moron (okay maybe don't do that).

Post: #13

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 03:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  As far as burnout goes.

1) Eliminate the problem that is burning you out - which right now seems like you can't quit
2) Minimize the problem that is burning you out - find a better way to deal with your staff to get stuff done without being the target of one of them. Ideally, you take the weaker one and coach him up. Get it clear his job is at stake and he needs to contribute and do better. Give him the better projects. It will help him build his resume, get him some glory but not at totally fucking you over
3) With the degree completed - that should free up time
4) Take a break - a mini vaction, amybe just a staycation. Stay at home and don't think about anything stressing you out
5) Visualize - know that all this pain is part of your journey to financial freedom. Therefore, don't look at it as a burden. Interpret the events in a different way. These things are helping me towards my goal of freedom. I am grateful to be in this position. Things like that.
6) Meditate - though I don't do this, I have heard people find it useful
7) Find a different way to make your RE business work while lowering stress
8) Workout if you are not
9) Find a way to relax a bit - I am constantly thinking about my work and investments, it does stress me while instead I should be enjoying it, so I am there with you
10) You could look into a new job, but that transition may not be worth it especially if your window before going on your own is small.
11) Map out of your timing to freedom - I.e. I need x ore properties at these figures to sustain me. Work backwards and figure out how many years it will take. You are a finance guy, you should be able to build a model based on savings, rents, etc. Then break them down into quarter goals. Celebrate at each milestone. When the joy seems too far away it is hard to get excited. But if you can see yourself having victories in small windows of time, then it makes it more sustainable.

This is an excellent list -- this is why I come to RVF real talk and actionable advice.

I have started working on a model towards financial freedom, and really need to change that mindset. Today was a low point as I realized that I had so much to do, and not enough time to do it.

I'm trying to constantly push myself to do more with less time and after months and months of doing the same thing, I'm hitting that fatigue/burnout stage.

I really appreciate your advice here. If Financial Freedom is the goal then I should see this as a process not a burden. I am taking a step back tomorrow to relax/recharge.

How about a fucking like then if it was useful...

Hahaha just messing with you. Glad it was helpful. I wish you luck on your journey. It doesn't sound like you need champ. Just some patience and time, you'll get there. Update us on how things progress. Always enjoy hearing about people doing well.

Once again, just goofing around.

Post: #14

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  Several thoughts:

- Gunning for your position is an act of disloyalty. Unless you're about to engineer your exit, I'd replace his ass. Blame it on "poor cultural fit"/usual BS.

- Why do you have a moron working for you? Replace/sell him too.

- When the time comes, don't quit. Get laid off with severance.

- Finally, as others said, don't leave your job just yet. You sound burned out. Get your fitness and diet sorted out. Take a vacation away from Boston. Delegate more bullshit. Replace the moron with a hot female moron (okay maybe don't do that).

Gunning for your superior's position is standard operating procedure in finance. If someone isn't doing that they are usually untalented or unambitious.
It's sort of like how it works in City of God for Brazilian street gangs. You can either patiently work your way up to the top, and wait for the person above you to be promoted, leave for another job, etc...or you can speed the process along by any and all means necessary.

Post: #15

I was hoping that this thread was going to be fun and about bondage and golden showers. Big disappointment.

Post: #16

(02-10-2015 10:41 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 03:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  As far as burnout goes.

1) Eliminate the problem that is burning you out - which right now seems like you can't quit
2) Minimize the problem that is burning you out - find a better way to deal with your staff to get stuff done without being the target of one of them. Ideally, you take the weaker one and coach him up. Get it clear his job is at stake and he needs to contribute and do better. Give him the better projects. It will help him build his resume, get him some glory but not at totally fucking you over
3) With the degree completed - that should free up time
4) Take a break - a mini vaction, amybe just a staycation. Stay at home and don't think about anything stressing you out
5) Visualize - know that all this pain is part of your journey to financial freedom. Therefore, don't look at it as a burden. Interpret the events in a different way. These things are helping me towards my goal of freedom. I am grateful to be in this position. Things like that.
6) Meditate - though I don't do this, I have heard people find it useful
7) Find a different way to make your RE business work while lowering stress
8) Workout if you are not
9) Find a way to relax a bit - I am constantly thinking about my work and investments, it does stress me while instead I should be enjoying it, so I am there with you
10) You could look into a new job, but that transition may not be worth it especially if your window before going on your own is small.
11) Map out of your timing to freedom - I.e. I need x ore properties at these figures to sustain me. Work backwards and figure out how many years it will take. You are a finance guy, you should be able to build a model based on savings, rents, etc. Then break them down into quarter goals. Celebrate at each milestone. When the joy seems too far away it is hard to get excited. But if you can see yourself having victories in small windows of time, then it makes it more sustainable.

This is an excellent list -- this is why I come to RVF real talk and actionable advice.

I have started working on a model towards financial freedom, and really need to change that mindset. Today was a low point as I realized that I had so much to do, and not enough time to do it.

I'm trying to constantly push myself to do more with less time and after months and months of doing the same thing, I'm hitting that fatigue/burnout stage.

I really appreciate your advice here. If Financial Freedom is the goal then I should see this as a process not a burden. I am taking a step back tomorrow to relax/recharge.

How about a fucking like then if it was useful...

Hahaha just messing with you. Glad it was helpful. I wish you luck on your journey. It doesn't sound like you need champ. Just some patience and time, you'll get there. Update us on how things progress. Always enjoy hearing about people doing well.

Once again, just goofing around.

Sam3X: You know I got you covered, brotha.

I’ll keep everyone updated. The day I start getting serious cash flow from the investments is going to be a day of freedom and I’ll pop a virtual bottle on RVF.
This journey has been killer. Definite respect for the entrepreneurs out there.

Post: #17

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  Several thoughts:

- Gunning for your position is an act of disloyalty. Unless you're about to engineer your exit, I'd replace his ass. Blame it on "poor cultural fit"/usual BS.

- Why do you have a moron working for you? Replace/sell him too.

- When the time comes, don't quit. Get laid off with severance.

- Finally, as others said, don't leave your job just yet. You sound burned out. Get your fitness and diet sorted out. Take a vacation away from Boston. Delegate more bullshit. Replace the moron with a hot female moron (okay maybe don't do that).

Dropping some real intriguing knowledge here Peregrine. Let me address the comments:

- This guy is a disloyal dick. Unfortunately, being the smarmy ass that he is, he has made a good impression on my boss by being ass-kisser extraordinaire. If you have any actionable thoughts/advice about dislodging this douche without suffering any blowback, please let me know.

- I inherited the moron. He’s harmless but doesn’t add much to the bottom line. I’m not giving up on him just yet – this year, I’ll try to train him to become better at his job.

- How do I engineer a layoff with severance? My company is doing fantastically well and we have not had layoffs since 2008.

I’m trying get back in the fitness/diet bandwagon while keeping a laser focus on savings/Real Estate. I can’t really do a vacation because I’m grinding hard at work/can’t spare to spend the $$s. So I’m going with the low cost approach of eating right/exercising.

Post: #18

(02-11-2015 11:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  I was hoping that this thread was going to be fun and about bondage and golden showers. Big disappointment.

Heh, I wonder if there is a golden shower + handcuffs combo in Bondage. Sorry to disappoint, Suits.

Post: #19

(02-11-2015 12:40 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  Sam3X: You know I got you covered, brotha.

I’ll keep everyone updated. The day I start getting serious cash flow from the investments is going to be a day of freedom and I’ll pop a virtual bottle on RVF.
This journey has been killer. Definite respect for the entrepreneurs out there.

I think after you make your millions everyone who posted on the thread to help should get a BMW from you. Who is with me?

Have a good journey, you'll get there. I think a lot of people fail on the journey because they are blind, no situational awareness, can't see the future or at least ponder the future. Seems like you don't have blinders on. That will serve you well.

As Picard says,

Post: #20

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  - When the time comes, don't quit. Get laid off with severance.

I like this.

Look forward to the day you have enough cash you can kick your job. Don't though just show up late act like a moron, don't get shit done, delegate way too much and leave early.

Get that severance. Become the bad culture fit. That would be fun on its own. Just play PacMan when your boss comes in to talk with you.

Post: #21

(02-11-2015 02:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 12:40 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  Sam3X: You know I got you covered, brotha.

I’ll keep everyone updated. The day I start getting serious cash flow from the investments is going to be a day of freedom and I’ll pop a virtual bottle on RVF.
This journey has been killer. Definite respect for the entrepreneurs out there.

I think after you make your millions everyone who posted on the thread to help should get a BMW from you. Who is with me?

Have a good journey, you'll get there. I think a lot of people fail on the journey because they are blind, no situational awareness, can't see the future or at least ponder the future. Seems like you don't have blinders on. That will serve you well.

As Picard says,

This is the first time I have gotten a personalized meme.

Sure, I'll get you all BMWs (with salvage titles )

I have lots of obstacles along the way and that journey will have bumps in the road. In the end it has to be worth it. Some days, I just keep working from the crack of dawn to midnight, eventually collapsing in my bed and doing all over again the next day. This isn't a pity party but rather an insight into the arduous process towards financial independence. Sure we know all about the wealth of Rockfeller and Getty, however no one realizes how much hustling/risk taking they had to do.

This thread gave me a boost that I sorely needed.

So I'm going to refuel, recharge and get back out there.

Post: #22

(02-11-2015 02:53 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:37 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  - When the time comes, don't quit. Get laid off with severance.

I like this.

Look forward to the day you have enough cash you can kick your job. Don't though just show up late act like a moron, don't get shit done, delegate way too much and leave early.

Get that severance. Become the bad culture fit. That would be fun on its own. Just play PacMan when your boss comes in to talk with you.

I'm researching the get laid off and get severance aspect. I think what you're describing is getting straight fired. Not knocking it, just saying.

Guys, if you decide to pursue investments in real estate, hold on to that paycheck job unless you are clearing some solid $$ in cash. The reason why I stress this: Financing, whether you do bank or private financing, having W-2s and a steady job will go a long way towards reassuring your lenders that even in the worst case scenario you will have income from work. Sure, it's back breaking at times, to be working for someone, coming home and doing your research, dealing with tenants, but it's worth the effort. Finally, I know that I don't post at RVF as much as I want to (due to the above), however if you need any info/support/advice please ask away (PM me or here). This is definitely my go-to corner of the internet because of all great folks here.