Post: #1

It's popular among paleo types to ditch sunscreen and sunblock, yet still get lots of sun. They say that eating a paleo diet, and certain foods in particular, protects your skin against damage from the sun. Here is a good summary:

• 8 Natural Ways to Prevent a Sunburn
  
  Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/8-natural...z3V4FACaDE

I've experienced virtually nothing but benefits from eating a more paleo-style diet, but the paleo approach to sun exposure is a little dicier:

• *The evidence behind conventional nutrition was pretty weak to begin with. When you change your diet up, you can feel the response, good or bad, fairly soon. So even if the paleo diet was terrible for you, you'd soon realize it and change your ways before doing any lasting damage to your body.
  
  *The conventional approach to preventing photoaging on the other hand, clearly does work. Putting on sunblock clearly does protect your skin. This is the mainstream position of dermatologists. And going without sunblock could damage your skin in ways that won't become evident until months or years later.
  
  *The paleo diet may be a rough approximation of what our ancestors ate, but many of us live in a place where our ancestors did not evolve, particularly pale people in hot places. The true paleo approach would be... to go back to Ireland or whatever. Maybe a non-paleo approach is necessary given how pale people are out of their element.
  

So I'm a little wary of jumping on the paleo bandwagon on this issue, but the paleo approach is far more convenient than slathering on sunblock every time you hang out outside. I've recently started getting a lot more sun exposure, and wondering which approach I should take.

What's your personal opinion and experience with the paleo approach to sun protection?

Also, the rays that cause sunburns (UVB) are not the rays that cause aging (UVA). So you may still be aging from sun exposure when you're not getting burned.

For what it's worth, I have found that the paleo diet can reduce acne, but that's a separate matter.

Post: #2

I don't know about paleo but is diet good for skin? Yes.

Avoid sugar. If possible - none. And no added sugar. Really f'ing minimize.

Same with alcohol. A couple of drinks once in awhile. And no sugary drinks...

Foods that build up the skin to prevent burns? Carrots... Eat lots of them or juice them. The beta c. will fortify your skin against sun damage.

Finally - like you said wear sunblock and cover up - wear a hat. There are companies that also make uv blocking clothing.

I don't know much about paleo and I get irked by fads and commercializing dietary trends.

But... to answer your question directly. Yes, I think a good diet is beneficial but if you're counting on diet only to protect your skin for sun damage, forget it, the sun always wins.

Edit: I started wearing a daily spf when I was in my 20's.
I am now much older than that and people say I look five years younger FWIW...

Post: #3

No difference at all, for me.
That said, I have spent most of my life in the North where we have very little sunlight and when we do have, the sun is rarely so strong that you need any sunblock.

But I have also spent some time in South East Asia, Middle East, Australia other places with stong sun. If I need to spend time outside in the middle of the day the sunblock is a must, or I will get burned badly. I usually try to avoid being outside during the hours when the sunshine is strongest.

I have gotten so many nasty sunburns so it's not even funny.

Post: #4

Do not stop using sun protection

Post: #5

The most "paleolithic" way to avoid sun damage is to stay in the shade.

Post: #6

I think Mike from D&P highlighted that certain veggies like tomato, papaya and watermelon which have lycopene can help prevent sunburn.

This of course is not "paleo" at all if your ancestors were European, as none of them would ever have access to tomatoes, papayas, or watermelons.

Anecdotally, I have seen this anti-burning. effect. But I also have a "Mediterranean" skin tone and don't burn too easily anyway.

Post: #7

(03-22-2015 12:53 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  The most "paleolithic" way to avoid sun damage is to stay in a cave.

Fixed it for ya!

Can't wait for this summer's tan.

Post: #8

Köpcke W, Krutmann J. Protection from sunburn with beta-Carotene — a meta-analysis. Photochem Photobiol. 2008 Mar-Apr;84(2):284-8. Epub 2007 Dec 15.

The study found that taking beta-carotene for 10 weeks, in amounts of about 57 mg per day, protected against sunburn. One cup of carrot juice has about 22 mg of beta-carotene.

The researchers said the SPF of beta-carotene was about 4. They thought the benefit from beta-carotene could be due to its antioxidant potential or interference in other parts of the biochemical pathways leading to sunburn.

Post: #9

(03-22-2015 12:53 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  The most "paleolithic" way to avoid sun damage is to stay in the shade.

Close, but recent archaeological evidence points to an alternative method:

Post: #10

I never get burned.

That being said- I did come pretty close one time when I spent ~7-8 hours straight in the sun. But I would still highly recommend covering up with clothing/hats or going to shade over sunblocks. If you havent gotten enough vitamin D, you definitely shouldnt cover up, but if you are approaching burning, then try to avoid the chemical sunblocks and use more natural ones.

Post: #11

(03-22-2015 03:37 PM)Magnesium Chloride Wrote:  I never get burned.

That being said- I did come pretty close one time when I spent ~7-8 hours straight in the sun. But I would still highly recommend covering up with clothing/hats or going to shade over sunblocks. If you havent gotten enough vitamin D, you definitely shouldnt cover up, but if you are approaching burning, then try to avoid the chemical sunblocks and use more natural ones.

Your skin can get damaged but not burned - thus the confusion as to whether what you're doing works.

Sonsowey, yeah lycopene is mentioned in the article I linked. Tomato paste is a good source - best to eat with a fat like olive oil, as it is a fat soluble vitamin.

Post: #12

The biggest thing is showering. The combination of Exfoliating + Soap + Hard Water is too much for the skin to take. Keep in mind that until the early 70s showers were considered a 'luxury'; most homes/apts only had bath tubs. I'll come back to this point a little later.

The next thing is to build a tolerance. Most people only go out on days when the UV index is hovering at 9-10; instead make a habit of going out every day, even on overcast days when the index is a measly 1-2. There's a lot (homeless) guys Downtown who have pretty much been outside 10+ hours a day for decades and I'm 99% sure they don't use sunscreen.

I'll post a pt 2 if anyone is interested, too much to write right now.

Post: #13

"There's a lot (homeless) guys Downtown who have pretty much been outside 10+ hours a day for decades and I'm 99% sure they don't use sunscreen."

But they also have that reddish look that screams "homeless in the sun all day."

Post: #14

There are stretches of time where I am required to work outdoors. Guiding hikes, kayak trips, mountain expeditions etc.
I would say go with the conventional approach.
Nothing against the Paleo philosophy as I've never used that approach when it comes to sun protection.
What I do:
Apply Sunblock with SPF 30 (I think using SPF over 50 is redundant) just before going out.
In the evenings, a decent application & massage of coconut oil or olive oil to the skin, especially the face, after a bath. Leave it on. Most times, i just sleep without washing it off until morning.
In the event of a burn, just apply some aloe vera gel.
By the way, this is sun in South East Asia, where i'm currently based & the sun exposure here is high. My regime seems to be paying off so far with regards to not getting any bad burns & having my skin not look like rotting leather.

Post: #15

I decided to make my own sunscreen, using zinc oxide as the primary active ingredient. Chemical sunscreen, some allege, is a hormone disruptor. The mineral, non-chemical sunscreen I found was pretty expensive, and mineral sunscreen is pretty easy to make at home apparently.

Post: #16

(03-25-2015 07:07 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "There's a lot (homeless) guys Downtown who have pretty much been outside 10+ hours a day for decades and I'm 99% sure they don't use sunscreen."

But they also have that reddish look that screams "homeless in the sun all day."

Uh...I'm pretty sure that's the "I need to find it in me to at least take one single hour away from booze before my face turns permanently purple" look. Haha

Anyways, purely anecdotal but I never use sunscreen and I live in SEA. Maybe someday I'll regret it. I think the stuff has a real potential to be bad for you. Your skin is your largest organ and what you put on it enters your system as I understand it.

My face does not seem to be aging fast but I guess it's hard to tell until it actually starts looking worn out.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #17

You can make your own internal "sunscreen" with tomato juice. Drink some everyday for 3-4 weeks and you will notice a healthy tint in your skin, that healthy tint which is bolstered by Lycopene and Vitamin C will protect your skin, you won't burn if you keep the routine up all summer.

Sheet --Tomatoes - Cooked:

/thread-13375.html

Post: #18

Thanks Kosko, was actually planning to add tomatoes to my daily lunch routine. Do sun dried tomatoes count as cooked?

Most of the sunscreen on the market is comprised of chemicals that are allegedly estrogenic. So I've decided to make my own sunscreen, using all natural ingredients, with zinc oxide as the active ingredient. The mineral sunscreens I'm seeing on the market are pretty pricey. Will stick with that for now, while also implementing dietary changes along the lines of what Mark Sisson suggests, specifically more omega 3 and lycopene.

Post: #19

@Basil keep us updated with the natural sunscreen, especially if it holds up well against "normal" sunscreen.

I'd be very interested in making my own.

Post: #20

redbeard, not sure what you mean by natural sunscreen. Mineral sunscreens are a proven technology. See http://www.ewg.org/2014sunscreen/the-tro...chemicals/

As for the food, there are some limited studies showing the protective effects of eating certain foods, eg http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7370759.stm . I'm sure there's more, I'm just not aware of them. How reliable this is, and whether you're eating enough of the right foods for the level of exposure you're getting, is the question.

Post: #21

Post: #22

(03-25-2015 04:48 PM)Low Status Beta Wrote:  There's a lot (homeless) guys Downtown who have pretty much been outside 10+ hours a day for decades and I'm 99% sure they don't use sunscreen.

That old dude asking for change in the sun all day?

Hes 26.

Post: #23

I made my own sunscreen, and highly recommend it. It's considerably cheaper than buying a real prepackaged mineral sunscreen, and it feels pretty rich going on your skin. The only drawbacks are it smells like olive oil and makes you look really pasty. I think both of those can be resolved with adding scented oil and cocoa powder, respectively, or using a different formula. I did see a formula that had water, but that limited the shelf life - the oil/fat/wax only formulas seem like the way to go.

I integrated some of the recommended foods into my daily diet, namely tomatoes and fish, and try to minimize wheat and seed/vegetable oil consumption, but I still don't want to risk aging my face.

Post: #24

Share the recipe!

Post: #25

I would like to know. Sunscreen is like 10 bucks for a small amount and it only lasts about 40 minutes before reapplying. If I'm on the beach I will be out longer than that. Also the chemicals most likely absorb into the skin which means they can get into the blood. With 20 chemicals I have no idea what they are listed in the average ingredients I'm not wild about using it. It sucks even more when your bald.

I want to wear hats more too but my head is too big for most.