Post: #1

I think he's absolutely right about this and I never saw it until today, which is surprising after the amount of time I've spent absorbing this type of content put out by the manosphere. However, I do know military guys putting bullets through their brains over this shit... it's real. NB: the post is from 2011, it's old, but realize we shouldn't wife up these hoes.

From: http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/wh...r-problem/

Quote:All that said, I was still left with the question, why the fuck do you even give a shit whether guys unplug? I unplugged without the support of an internet community of Men comparing experiences, why even bother? I have had what most Men would consider a very good marriage for over 15 years now. I have a whip-smart daughter, I make good money, I’m successful at what I do, I’m well travelled, why is it so fucking important to make my voice heard?

It’s when I’m forced to answer questions like this that I have no choice but to apply my own personal experiences to the equation. I’m loathe to do so because it’s far too easy for critics to mold them into some purpose that serves their perspective – he’s bitter, he got burned, this is his catharsis, he’s vindictive, etc. However, it’s necessary to present these experiences as observations for a better understanding. I wont pretend to be unbiased, no one is, but I do take the pains to be as self-analytical as I can in what I offer.

So you want to know what my problem is?

My problem is living in a world teeming with young men who’ve become so conditioned to believing that anything remotely masculine is to be ridiculed, vilified and subdued until they have no concept of what it truly entails much less pass off even the possibility that it could be something positive and attractive.

My problem is when a personal, AFC friend swallows a bullet because he literally “can’t live without” the girlfriend who left him.

My problem is watching a pastor’s pretty wife leave him and 4 children so she can pursue her hypergamy after 18 years of marriage because he pedestalized her and deprecated himself every day of their marriage.

My problem is when a 65 y.o. life-long chump cries in my lap about how he’s been consistently blackmailed with his wife’s intimacy for the past 20 years of their marriage and wont man-up for fear of losing her.

My problem is talking a close friend out of killing the wife he married too young at 19 and the man she just cheated on him with in the parking lot of the motel he’s spent all night tracking her down to find with their 3 children crying in the backseat of their minivan at 4am.

My problem is civilly sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with a hyper-religious sister-in-law and the new millionaire husband she married just 8 months after her former AFC husband of 20 years hung himself from a tree when she decided “he wasn’t the ONE” for her. My problem is staring at the brand new tits and Porsche she bought herself with the money from the home he built for her that he busted his ass for just 3 months after he was in the ground. My problem is emphatically teaching my 22 y.o. nephew how not to be the AFC his father was, while tactfully pointing out the hypergamy of his vulgarly opportunistic mother.

My problem is watching my father, though decaying from alzheimers, still playing out the Savior Schema in an effort to get laid that he’s thought should work for his entire life at 68 y.o. My problem is watching him feebley default to a behavior that obsessively motivated him to succeed until he was forced into early retirement at 53 and his 2nd wife left him promptly after that.

My problem is consoling a good friend who’s fathered 3 daughters with 2 wives and is being emotionally manipulated by his 3rd (another single mommie BTW), who’s become so despondent that he dreads going home from work to deal with his personal situation and wait’s with anticipation for the weekend to be over.

My problem is counseling a guy who thought the best way to separate himself from “other guys” was to be ‘chivalrous’ and date a single mommy with 3 children from 2 different fathers, only to knock her up for a fourth kid and marry her because “it was the right thing to do.”

My problem is dealing with a 17 y.o. girl who’d just witnessed her new boyfriend being stabbed 30+ times by her ex boyfriend because he believed “she was his soulmate” and “would rather live in jail without her than see her with that guy.”

My problem is trying to explain to ‘Modern Women’ that – after 15 years of marriage, my wife could still model swimwear and confidently respects my judgement and decisions as a Man – I didn’t achieve this by being a domineering, 1950’s caveman-chauvinist who’s crushed her spirit, but that it is an understanding and adherence to living a positively masculine role.

And my biggest problem is seeing 14 y.o. AFC symps all ready to sacrifice themselves wholesale to this pitiful, mass-media fueled, pop-culture endorsed, idealized and feminized notion of romantic/soulmate mythology, all because some other AFCs trapped in the same quicksand they are, are affirming and co-enabling each other to further their own sinking and spred this disease to other AFCs. It’s infectious, and complacency, like misery, loves company. My fear is that I’m only one Man, and I can’t possibly be enough to kick these guys in the ass like their AFC fathers were unable or unwilling to do.

This is why I bother. It really is a matter of life or death sometimes. Understanding Game, for lack of a better term, how and why it functions, is literally a survival skill. Think about the importance of the decisions we make based on uninquisitive, flimsy and misdirected presumption we have been conditioned to believe about love, gender, sex, relationships, etc. Think about the life impact that these decisions have not only on ourselves, but our families, the children that result from them, and every other domino that falls as a repercussion. We rarely stop to think about how our immediate decisions impact people we may not even know at the time we make them. What we do in life, literally, echoes or ripples into eternity. That’s not to go all fortune cookie on you, but it is my reasoning behind my desire to educate, to study, to tear down and build back up what most would ask, “why bother?”

After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

Post: #2

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  My problem is watching a pastor’s pretty wife leave him and 4 children so she can pursue her hypergamy after 18 years of marriage because he pedestalized her and deprecated himself every day of their marriage.

My problem is civilly sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with a hyper-religious sister-in-law and the new millionaire husband she married just 8 months after her former AFC husband of 20 years hung himself from a tree when she decided “he wasn’t the ONE” for her.

Quote:After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

Hypergamy is a killer and it is amazing how it can so easily trump spiritual conviction.

I think Christian men are at the most risk of being hypergamously sacrificed by 'the One'.

In fact, I'd say that a man who admits that there is no such thing as the One other than 'God is One', would be guilty of the most dire heresy.

I looked at younger women, Christian women but I think there are still problems with these groups. As a result, I am reluctantly drifting towards MGTOW.

Post: #3

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

An 18 year old virgin from a very strong and well-off family? That's the only way I would consider it. I've known a few. Some are single because they can't find a churchian man they aren't repelled of to shack up with in a formal way. Some finally do shack up but then spend their lives in poverty due to worship.

He's getting at something deeper. The death of a culture. That in itself is related to what you are getting at: Current western culture puts the probability of finding a wifely woman at close to zero, within the confines of the borders. Without enough wealth or temperament to create a bulwark to withstand all the social pressures of the declining culture, there is an enormous risk, with very little benefit outside of raising children. But, you can do that without marriage.

In my opinion, the only real healthy reality is creating small tribes of positive culture. I've mentioned before that the homeschool culture in some areas can be huge and very beneficial, but that culture has to remain strong, as around the fuzzy edges lies temptation a debasement for the parents and children as well. Complete isolation is not only impossible and attempting it would require vast wealth reserves, but it would be counter-productive on the order of a single two person family. Culture survives in larger groups than that.

Maybe there will be a birth of a strong, productive, meaningful culture that isn't limited to just the religious sects? Maybe through the use of the internet and strong local cooperation, the seeds of change can be planted? Maybe the seeds are already planted.

We could also just watch this whole mother take on water and sink into the abyss, with the PTSD-inflicted, and wounded rats scampering away with the remains of western culture. That's almost what happened when the plagues wiped out half the population of big cities before the renaissance, killing many old and weak people that would've normally passed on knowledge from the past that wasn't recorded.

Humans have to live and reproduce. There is already a huge government force taking from the productive and squandering it wastefully, reinforcing the mistakes of single mothers and contributors to the decline.

Positive cultural change has to happen. Robbing from the productive to save the fuckups from their own mistakes just cuts the positive contributors off at the knees when it comes time to reproduce. Figure out a way to make a change in a better direction, and things may get better in some areas. Everything else that Rollo discusses: teenage jealousy murders, talking men out of murder and suicide, etc. are all just symptoms of the poisonous environment. Sure, there's always going to be such things, but we're approaching peak Rome in regards to the literal orgy of decadence around us.

Post: #4

"After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often."

It will probably work out better than wifing up a woman at 25 or 30 who has been around the block and can't properly bond or harbors resentment against other men and makes you pay. If a guy plans on getting married, I think getting in on the ground level with a woman is the only option.

The reason for this comes from observation.

Of my fortysomething friends who got married and stayed married, virtually all of them met their wives in high school or early on in college. If I had any brains, I'd have done this with some of the higher-quality women I dated in college who were virgins and ready and willing to bond. But for some reason, that seemed cliche and small-town to me and I had to follow my own path.

Which, of course, led me here, where I'm remembering these girls on a chilly Thursday night at 2 a.m. as opposed to actually having lived life with them.

The older you get, the more insane they get when they remains single or get divorced. I've written extensively about older women on the forum and I don't wish them on anyone.

The other option, of course, is not getting married at all. But those same older women will be in your future at some point if you plan to continue dating. Good luck with that.

Post: #5

(04-24-2015 01:09 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  "After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often."

It will probably work out better than wifing up a woman at 25 or 30 who has been around the block and can't properly bond or harbors resentment against other men and makes you pay. If a guy plans on getting married, I think getting in on the ground level with a woman is the only option.

The reason for this comes from observation.

Of my fortysomething friends who got married and stayed married, virtually all of them met their wives in high school or early on in college. If I had any brains, I'd have done this with some of the higher-quality women I dated in college who were virgins and ready and willing to bond. But for some reason, that seemed cliche and small-town to me and I had to follow my own path.

Which, of course, led me here, where I'm remembering these girls on a chilly Thursday night at 2 a.m. as opposed to actually having lived life with them.

The older you get, the more insane they get when they remains single or get divorced. I've written extensively about older women on the forum and I don't wish them on anyone.

The other option, of course, is not getting married at all. But those same older women will be in your future at some point if you plan to continue dating. Good luck with that.

I hear you. However, on the odd Thursday night, at 2 a.m, I console myself with the knowledge that all of my married friends, without exception, have miserable marriages and their wives are either control freaks, unfaithful or land whales. They stay married out of inertia, fear of loneliness, fear of being divorce raped, or for the sake of the children. It's trite but true to say the grass is always greener on the other side.

Post: #6

(04-24-2015 12:47 AM)N°6 Wrote:  I think Christian men are at the most risk of being hypergamously sacrificed by 'the One'.

In fact, I'd say that a man who admits that there is no such thing as the One other than 'God is One', would be guilty of the most dire heresy.

I looked at younger women, Christian women but I think there are still problems with these groups. As a result, I am reluctantly drifting towards MGTOW.

The problem with most Christian churches in the US is that they teach feminism light. And even without that you have the entire culture of media and academia which is absolutely fem-centric.

I would not discount women though. Even Rollo said that he just would not marry nowadays if he were 30 and met his wife again. He simply would not do it and neither should we except for some strange strong positive upsides - she being Eyes Wide Shut wealthy etc.

Picking an 18 year old virgin is a good choice if that girl is Red Pill, but she better have not only unplugged from the feminist thinking, but also from mainstream media and interests. It just dawned on my that the special thing about my girlfriend is not that I can do threesomes with her and she is Red Pill. The really special thing is that she simply ignores all media, gossips, 50-Shades crap - her online interests are gardening, cute animals, health & nutrition and occasionally some porn. Her reading is spirituality, fashion magazines, gardening and health. She rejects as do I practically everything mainstream.

She is thoroughly Red Pill so much that she mentioned to me recently that she cannot talk about most stuff with some girlfriends she has. Her friends were in a discussion about their husbands and boyfriends and how much they hated it when their pussywhipped Betas looked at other hot girls. She sat in silence as she thought, that I not only look with complete lack of shame, but sometimes even approach a girl. She said that she can never talk about this to most of her friends as they would not understand it. I laughed and said: "Of course they would not, because feminism has warped their minds." Now of course part of it is based on the fact that I have pushed my frame beyond the normal area, but men did that in times past too.

I am btw also very kind and fun with her - also I told her that I would make her pregnant, because she would be a great mother.

Those women do exist - they are out there, they may be rare, but somewhere along the line you can meet an Amish / spiritual / yoga-health alternative / FOB foreign uncorrupted / sweet girl that will respond well to your frame & Game. In my experiences such relationships are very stable - most women will forgive Alphas pretty much every transgression if they remain with her and vow to not fuck other women ever again (probably the main reason why such relationships flounder after all, because guys simply won't give up that hobby).

Oh - and all of this without marriage of course - your biggest investment is a child and that should be as well-thought as marriage in times past.

Post: #7

Ah man, I dunno what's up with me but I felt a lot of emotion listening to that speech, I feel his pain i'd like to help people in my family and circle of friends, but I've had to accept that most of them are just beyond help and I don't know what to do.
The more I try to help by just gently nudging them in the right direction, the more they reject it. I have to avoid these people for my own sanity.

Post: #8

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

My theory on this is that some guys have swallowed the red pill, but they really haven't gone as far down the rabbit hole as they should. AnonymousBosch has a post in the "I just had sex" thread about some engaged girl wanting to get impregnated by him. A bad breakup with a girl leads many to the beginning of this journey of understanding, but I think what really is necessary to grasp the really terrible truth s to experience being the "other guy" with a chick in a relationship. I had the dirtiest sex ever with this one engaged chick when I jokingly said that I want to impregnate her and have her fiancée raise the kid. Man, the glisten in her eye when I said that was simultaneously the most arousing and terrifying thing I'd ever seen. Guys are holding on too tight to an ideal. It's a free fall, just let go.

Post: #9

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  



I think he's absolutely right about this and I never saw it until today, which is surprising after the amount of time I've spent absorbing this type of content put out by the manosphere. However, I do know military guys putting bullets through their brains over this shit... it's real. NB: the post is from 2011, it's old, but realize we shouldn't wife up these hoes.

From: http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/wh...r-problem/

Quote:All that said, I was still left with the question, why the fuck do you even give a shit whether guys unplug? I unplugged without the support of an internet community of Men comparing experiences, why even bother? I have had what most Men would consider a very good marriage for over 15 years now. I have a whip-smart daughter, I make good money, I’m successful at what I do, I’m well travelled, why is it so fucking important to make my voice heard?

It’s when I’m forced to answer questions like this that I have no choice but to apply my own personal experiences to the equation. I’m loathe to do so because it’s far too easy for critics to mold them into some purpose that serves their perspective – he’s bitter, he got burned, this is his catharsis, he’s vindictive, etc. However, it’s necessary to present these experiences as observations for a better understanding. I wont pretend to be unbiased, no one is, but I do take the pains to be as self-analytical as I can in what I offer.

So you want to know what my problem is?

My problem is living in a world teeming with young men who’ve become so conditioned to believing that anything remotely masculine is to be ridiculed, vilified and subdued until they have no concept of what it truly entails much less pass off even the possibility that it could be something positive and attractive.

My problem is when a personal, AFC friend swallows a bullet because he literally “can’t live without” the girlfriend who left him.

My problem is watching a pastor’s pretty wife leave him and 4 children so she can pursue her hypergamy after 18 years of marriage because he pedestalized her and deprecated himself every day of their marriage.

My problem is when a 65 y.o. life-long chump cries in my lap about how he’s been consistently blackmailed with his wife’s intimacy for the past 20 years of their marriage and wont man-up for fear of losing her.

My problem is talking a close friend out of killing the wife he married too young at 19 and the man she just cheated on him with in the parking lot of the motel he’s spent all night tracking her down to find with their 3 children crying in the backseat of their minivan at 4am.

My problem is civilly sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with a hyper-religious sister-in-law and the new millionaire husband she married just 8 months after her former AFC husband of 20 years hung himself from a tree when she decided “he wasn’t the ONE” for her. My problem is staring at the brand new tits and Porsche she bought herself with the money from the home he built for her that he busted his ass for just 3 months after he was in the ground. My problem is emphatically teaching my 22 y.o. nephew how not to be the AFC his father was, while tactfully pointing out the hypergamy of his vulgarly opportunistic mother.

My problem is watching my father, though decaying from alzheimers, still playing out the Savior Schema in an effort to get laid that he’s thought should work for his entire life at 68 y.o. My problem is watching him feebley default to a behavior that obsessively motivated him to succeed until he was forced into early retirement at 53 and his 2nd wife left him promptly after that.

My problem is consoling a good friend who’s fathered 3 daughters with 2 wives and is being emotionally manipulated by his 3rd (another single mommie BTW), who’s become so despondent that he dreads going home from work to deal with his personal situation and wait’s with anticipation for the weekend to be over.

My problem is counseling a guy who thought the best way to separate himself from “other guys” was to be ‘chivalrous’ and date a single mommy with 3 children from 2 different fathers, only to knock her up for a fourth kid and marry her because “it was the right thing to do.”

My problem is dealing with a 17 y.o. girl who’d just witnessed her new boyfriend being stabbed 30+ times by her ex boyfriend because he believed “she was his soulmate” and “would rather live in jail without her than see her with that guy.”

My problem is trying to explain to ‘Modern Women’ that – after 15 years of marriage, my wife could still model swimwear and confidently respects my judgement and decisions as a Man – I didn’t achieve this by being a domineering, 1950’s caveman-chauvinist who’s crushed her spirit, but that it is an understanding and adherence to living a positively masculine role.

And my biggest problem is seeing 14 y.o. AFC symps all ready to sacrifice themselves wholesale to this pitiful, mass-media fueled, pop-culture endorsed, idealized and feminized notion of romantic/soulmate mythology, all because some other AFCs trapped in the same quicksand they are, are affirming and co-enabling each other to further their own sinking and spred this disease to other AFCs. It’s infectious, and complacency, like misery, loves company. My fear is that I’m only one Man, and I can’t possibly be enough to kick these guys in the ass like their AFC fathers were unable or unwilling to do.

This is why I bother. It really is a matter of life or death sometimes. Understanding Game, for lack of a better term, how and why it functions, is literally a survival skill. Think about the importance of the decisions we make based on uninquisitive, flimsy and misdirected presumption we have been conditioned to believe about love, gender, sex, relationships, etc. Think about the life impact that these decisions have not only on ourselves, but our families, the children that result from them, and every other domino that falls as a repercussion. We rarely stop to think about how our immediate decisions impact people we may not even know at the time we make them. What we do in life, literally, echoes or ripples into eternity. That’s not to go all fortune cookie on you, but it is my reasoning behind my desire to educate, to study, to tear down and build back up what most would ask, “why bother?”

After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

Damn thanks for posting!! That's a powerful post right there!

Post: #10

(04-24-2015 11:23 AM)nek Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

My theory on this is that some guys have swallowed the red pill, but they really haven't gone as far down the rabbit hole as they should. AnonymousBosch has a post in the "I just had sex" thread about some engaged girl wanting to get impregnated by him. A bad breakup with a girl leads many to the beginning of this journey of understanding, but I think what really is necessary to grasp the really terrible truth s to experience being the "other guy" with a chick in a relationship. I had the dirtiest sex ever with this one engaged chick when I jokingly said that I want to impregnate her and have her fiancée raise the kid. Man, the glisten in her eye when I said that was simultaneously the most arousing and terrifying thing I'd ever seen. Guys are holding on too tight to an ideal. It's a free fall, just let go.

I've found that it's a long dark journey that's depressing at first due to all the lies but it gets better and easier as it goes along. The biggest lie of all is one we're taught from childhood and pushed by society because it keeps men enslaved: that women are angelic and can do no wrong. Look at how they try to make us swallow this nonsense every day now. "Listen and believe."

Men need to accept that humans are all self-interested mammals at our cores, some of us more ruthlessly self-interested than others, and we need to become aware what tremendous feats human beings are capable of once they abandon dignity.

It makes all the sense in the world for a woman to seek the best genes possible for offspring and simultaneously have a beta provider who gives them money. Is it moral? No, but since when did most women care about concepts like morality or honor? They don't really understand those concepts the way we do because it was evolutionarily beneficial for them not to. Men care about those things in relationships they form with other men and that's what provides for a functional tribe, but they should expect neither from women. This is partly why marriage laws and other shit like that were written the way they were back before feminism.

Post: #11

(04-24-2015 12:18 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 11:23 AM)nek Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

My theory on this is that some guys have swallowed the red pill, but they really haven't gone as far down the rabbit hole as they should. AnonymousBosch has a post in the "I just had sex" thread about some engaged girl wanting to get impregnated by him. A bad breakup with a girl leads many to the beginning of this journey of understanding, but I think what really is necessary to grasp the really terrible truth s to experience being the "other guy" with a chick in a relationship. I had the dirtiest sex ever with this one engaged chick when I jokingly said that I want to impregnate her and have her fiancée raise the kid. Man, the glisten in her eye when I said that was simultaneously the most arousing and terrifying thing I'd ever seen. Guys are holding on too tight to an ideal. It's a free fall, just let go.

I've found that it's a long dark journey that's depressing at first due to all the lies but it gets better and easier as it goes along. The biggest lie of all is one we're taught from childhood and pushed by society because it keeps men enslaved: that women are angelic and can do no wrong. Look at how they try to make us swallow this nonsense every day now. "Listen and believe."

Men need to accept that humans are all self-interested mammals at our cores, some of us more ruthlessly self-interested than others, and we need to become aware what tremendous feats human beings are capable of once they abandon dignity.

It makes all the sense in the world for a woman to seek the best genes possible for offspring and simultaneously have a beta provider who gives them money. Is it moral? No, but since when did most women care about concepts like morality or honor? They don't really understand those concepts the way we do because it was evolutionarily beneficial for them not to. Men care about those things in relationships they form with other men and that's what provides for a functional tribe, but they should expect neither from women. This is partly why marriage laws and other shit like that were written the way they were back before feminism.

Nice post, it helps better summarize my theory: A lot of the guys still looking for the unicorn are stuck in the "bargaining" stage of grief.

Post: #12

If I ever decide to have kids, I'm going to look into legal constructs, other than marriage, to protect my ass.

I'll also get a paternity test for every single kid. I've been "the other guy" enough that although I didn't knock any girl up for another man to raise my spawn, I know how quick and easy it can be.

Any woman who pops out a kid that's not mine will be dead to me, and I intend to keep my knowledge of paternity certain. I guess that means no French brides.

Post: #13

This post has rubbed me the wrong way since it was posted, and I want express my unhappiness with its content and tone.

It's posts like these that make me think this board is turning into a reverse image of Jezebel.

Jezebel ignores all positive stories and innovations by men and instead focuses on men that abuse women or commit crimes. In my opinion, we spend too much time going on about how nasty women are and we're becoming willfully blind to the fact that there are ones who are dedicated to their husbands throughout their lives.

I think the "hypergamy doesn't lie" idea is the manosphere's version of "all men are rapists." I don't buy it. There's truth in it, sure, but I think men see what they want to see and ignore what doesn't fit their worldview.

I am willing to concede I made bad decisions when it came to women. But I'm not willing to buy into a worldview that paints all of them as inhumanly hypergamous, always jumping to the next best thing.

And the reason for that is that (as mentioned) I've seen the opposite in the lives of friends and family members.

Dismiss my rantings as being "NAWALT" (Not All Women Are Like That), but in doing so, you run the risk of sounding like feminists who dismiss anyone who questions any sexual assault as a "rape apologist."

Things are not always black and white. Life is more complicated than that.

Yes, feminism eroded relations between men and women. Yes, it's damaged society. Yes, it's screwed some of us over personally in school and in our personal lives. Yes, it allows women to live down to their worst natures (i.e. hypergamy).

But no philosophy can or will upend basic biology. And if men and women could meet and marry successfully in 1920, they can do it today. We might have feminism, but they had world wars and were in the dark ages technologically speaking. In my opinion, it's easier to dismiss online idiots or deal with the issues of modern women than it was for Great Granddad to make it through a winter with minimal heat (to cite one example).

On top of all that, I think Rollo's writing lacks humanity and reduces people to ideas and concepts. While Heartiste and Roosh aren't exactly warm and loving in their styles, there's a sense of humor and impishness in their writing that I don't get from Rollo.

I take everyone with a grain of salt to some degree, but when writers (or professors or pundits or even musicians) have no sense of joy, alarm bells go off. It feels more like I'm getting propaganda than a slice of life.

While I buy into some of his ideas here, I think they're just that: his ideas. There's truth, but it's his truth. I have friends that you could spend weeks with and you'd come away with completely different "truths."

What I've read here and what I've seen in the real world have some connection, but do not ultimately jibe. Which brings me back to my original point: we're getting like Jezebel.

We need to be better thinkers. It's not helping anyone to spew this much negativity about human nature and females in general. Maybe this works for people who are younger and haven't seen women in their age group grow old. But it doesn't work for someone like me who has made it into his forties and knows scads of actual real life females who have spent decades NOT behaving this way.

And I know I'll get responses like "They're all hypergamous, you just don't see it." Well, if someone doesn't see something time and time again, maybe it's not really there after all. Perhaps you all are superimposing philosophies on people will little regard or understanding of the actual people.

Post: #14

Agreed, DoBA. The world will only improve by promoting, reinforcing, and leading. Not by complaining endlessly. It's what turned me off to the vast sect of MGTOWs.

There are pockets of good culture out there. They should be sought out and nurtured.

Post: #15

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

It's a bit of a feminist meme, but they're right for completely wrong reasons. "virginity" alone isn't a good basis to judge. Believe it or not nymphos can be some of the pickiest girls out there: they've got high sexual expectations and know that they'd find most available sexual encounters boring.

Quote: Some are single because they can't find a churchian man they aren't repelled of to shack up with in a formal way. Some finally do shack up but then spend their lives in poverty due to worship.

That's on point. I've seen that happen to a couple of that type. One of them ended up going "WGTOW" and joined a convent, a few others gave up on a relationship and took a spin around the carousel, and I took one of them off the market(not that there was much competition on the market).

Part of the problem too is that the best ones don't stay on the market for long. I went to a conservative, rural, southern school and most of the ones who I'd consider LTR material got engaged while in school and had the ceremony within a few days or weeks after graduation.

(04-24-2015 06:08 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 12:47 AM)N°6 Wrote:  I think Christian men are at the most risk of being hypergamously sacrificed by 'the One'.

In fact, I'd say that a man who admits that there is no such thing as the One other than 'God is One', would be guilty of the most dire heresy.

I looked at younger women, Christian women but I think there are still problems with these groups. As a result, I am reluctantly drifting towards MGTOW.

The problem with most Christian churches in the US is that they teach feminism light. And even without that you have the entire culture of media and academia which is absolutely fem-centric.


Picking an 18 year old virgin is a good choice if that girl is Red Pill, but she better have not only unplugged from the feminist thinking, but also from mainstream media and interests. It just dawned on my that the special thing about my girlfriend is not that I can do threesomes with her and she is Red Pill. The really special thing is that she simply ignores all media, gossips, 50-Shades crap - her online interests are gardening, cute animals, health & nutrition and occasionally some porn. Her reading is spirituality, fashion magazines, gardening and health. She rejects as do I practically everything mainstream.

Seconded. At this point I'm fairly certain that the reason mine turned out well when I met her is her complete disconnect from media: no cable and minimal internet growing up. It also helps that she came from a large family where there simply wasn't any time for narcissistic attention seeking.

Quote:She is thoroughly Red Pill so much that she mentioned to me recently that she cannot talk about most stuff with some girlfriends she has. Her friends were in a discussion about their husbands and boyfriends and how much they hated it when their pussywhipped Betas looked at other hot girls. She sat in silence as she thought, that I not only look with complete lack of shame, but sometimes even approach a girl. She said that she can never talk about this to most of her friends as they would not understand it. I laughed and said: "Of course they would not, because feminism has warped their minds." Now of course part of it is based on the fact that I have pushed my frame beyond the normal area, but men did that in times past too.

We don't quite go that far (She doesn't look at other dudes, and I return the favor of not looking at other women around her) but she has pissed off a few workplace acquaintances previously by not condoning the new PC bullshit.


I also agree with the comment about church being "feminism lite". I've been with staunchly "Catholic" women who wholeheartedly embraced bullshit like the "better to divorce than have screwed up kids!" line.

Post: #16

Well said DOBA. Agreed with you that it's not all as doom and gloom out there.

However, one major point that most of these doomy like articles fail to mention, is that they are for the vast majority, with Western Women in the Anglosphere. Provided one is well grounded, takes the time to really integrate into a foreign culture, lives there, learn the lingo, works and builds real friendships with locals, he can find happiness with a real, sweet, feminine, caring and nurturing woman. The kind that our basic and primal instincts crave for.

Bottom line, if you want to settle down and have a solid family with a decent human being as a female partner/wife, then go move to a foreign country where you have genuine interest about the culture, the country, the language and one where you would have leverage. For some, it may include going back to the old country where your parents came from. For others, it may be, pursuing your heart as we all have to some degree, a deep interest if not passion about a given country. Find which is yours and go there and establish roots.

Case in point to illustrate this:
/thread-44711....in+Ukraine

The recent example of the broke, short, Chinese guy who couldnt pass the exam entrance to a local university who immigrated to Ukraine with no money, no contacts and no language skills. Over a couple of years, he built a life from 0, where he is now happy, fulfilled both professionally and most importantly, as a man with a woman who adores him. A woman who is a genuine 8-9, in the prime of her youth, smart, feminine and caring.

If that guy, a broke, short and not so bright guy from the boondocks in China, with 0 contacts and linguistic skills achieved that by going to Ukraine, then surely, most guys in the RVF, who hail from first world countries for the majority, and who have a couple of nickels to their names, can very easily achieve that. It's all a matter of going out there, experimenting living in different cities in various countries for say 3-6 months until you find one where you vibe the best with the local culture and people. Then make it happen.

Unfortunately, settling down and getting married with a Western woman in the Anglosphere, is in 95% of the case, a losing proposition, if not an outright financial suicide and a big time scam. Knowing this crucial fact, specially since the majority of guys in here have traveled abroad and had a taste of the sweet nectar of real feminine women, this puts you way ahead of the average Joe out there who has been brainwashed since birth by the corrupt feminazi centric environment and system that a strong independent, opinionated, loud, obnoxious and fat past her prime woman is desirable!

No RVF guy should ever be stuck with a barren ghoul in this apocalyptic wasteland that is the Anglosphere is increasingly turning into. Gentlemen, take things into your own hands, get your stuffs in order, learn a valuable skill and or build a location independent business and off you go.

We are living in the era of globalization. If companies and corporations are going overseas to maximize their ROI, why shouldn't we, as men, go where we can maximize our ROI as well? Both in terms of opportunities and women?

Post: #17

Good link.

That guy's something else. Within that story you see the formula for building from zero to success: He took risk, started with small successes, and then built on those small successes to find where he was meant to be.


Also notice his wife's body language.....and how genuinely happy she looks when she's holding her child. That happiness is what women were meant to have, and it's what feminism took away from them.

Post: #18

This initial question of Rollo was rather concerned with "Why bother helping others at all?"

For me it's simply because I care about my friends and my fellow men. I will never broach the Red Pill with men I don't like or who I don't care for. But even strangers I sometimes try to give tips or links where they can look for the Red Pill and Game.

For me books like the Rational Male should be taught in school - there should be tests done on it around the age 14. It would truly make the world a better place and women would have to react in shocked consternation - ultimately becoming more happy too.

Post: #19

(04-24-2015 11:23 AM)nek Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  After reading that, does anyone still think their great plan to marry some 18 year old virgin will work out? I wouldn't take that risk and I honestly don't know why it comes up so often.

My theory on this is that some guys have swallowed the red pill, but they really haven't gone as far down the rabbit hole as they should. AnonymousBosch has a post in the "I just had sex" thread about some engaged girl wanting to get impregnated by him. A bad breakup with a girl leads many to the beginning of this journey of understanding, but I think what really is necessary to grasp the really terrible truth s to experience being the "other guy" with a chick in a relationship. I had the dirtiest sex ever with this one engaged chick when I jokingly said that I want to impregnate her and have her fiancée raise the kid. Man, the glisten in her eye when I said that was simultaneously the most arousing and terrifying thing I'd ever seen. Guys are holding on too tight to an ideal. It's a free fall, just let go.

Totally agree. I don’t think most men understand just how deep that rabbit hole goes. We have been conditioned to think that men and women are basically the same, but there is dark side to the female psyche I have seen again and again. I’m not proud of the fact that I have been the “other man” on a number occasions. Once upon a time, with the conceit of youth, I kidded myself with the belief that these poor girls couldn’t hep but succumb to my charms. Now, of course, I know that if it wasn’t me, it would have been someone else. They were intent on cheating, and I just happened to fit the bill in terms of what they were looking for. My “game” really was just to keep the mood sufficiently light, and convey, with a glint in my eye, that it’s all good, no one will know, so no harm done. Many, many people have commented on the attraction that dark triads seem to hold for women, but when you glimpse into their soul, it really can be terrifying.

Case in point, I was with a very beautiful woman in the bedroom of her harbour -side Sydney home, (people from Australia will appreciate the kind of coin it takes to buy a house like that). Her very rich husband was out of town on business. She was getting off on the fact that not only were we in the marital bed, but her young children were asleep down the corridor. Afterwards, she casually asked me, with an impish smile, whether she should poison her husband’s food. Of course she was joking, but the iciness in her voice, and the total surrender to me that it represented, was simultaneously arousing and repulsive. Days later, when we were having a serious discussion, she said to me that she would never leave her husband because he was “a good provider”. I kid you not, she actually used those words!

Sure, go overseas, immerse yourself in a new culture and try to marry a nice girl with traditional values. But remember, Mother Nature has given women everywhere the same amount of usable eggs. With that, come some biological imperatives that make women act in some very strange ways that we will never quite understand. To be honest, I don’t think they fully understand it as well, hence their ability to compartmentalize their desires into the old well worn “alpha fucks” “beta bucks” dichotomy.

Post: #20

(04-24-2015 02:49 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  On top of all that, I think Rollo's writing lacks humanity and reduces people to ideas and concepts. While Heartiste and Roosh aren't exactly warm and loving in their styles, there's a sense of humor and impishness in their writing that I don't get from Rollo.

*snip*

What I've read here and what I've seen in the real world have some connection, but do not ultimately jibe. Which brings me back to my original point: we're getting like Jezebel.

We need to be better thinkers. It's not helping anyone to spew this much negativity about human nature and females in general. Maybe this works for people who are younger and haven't seen women in their age group grow old. But it doesn't work for someone like me who has made it into his forties and knows scads of actual real life females who have spent decades NOT behaving this way.

I simultaneously agree with you and can challenge your argument.

I saw your post here in response to Rollo's classic article Hypergamy Doesn't Care. And I understood how you found that article joyless, but I found it amusing.

We're naturally inclined to focus on what women's hypergamy means to us, but have you tried really empathizing with how hypergamy feels to them?

Imagine a world where the following routinely happens (at random intervals, for unpredictable reasons): (1) A smell fills the room that's so noxious that you inevitably puke for 10 minutes straight until your entire stomach is empty. It takes roughly 90 minutes to recover psychologically, and you'll immediately be starving. (2) Flying sharp objects randomly dismember a limb or two, (or an eye), causing immense pain and bleeding. Magically, your severed body parts grow back within 30 minutes - but it still hurts like hell. (3) A loud, obnoxious, impossible-to-ignore noise fills the room. This noise always disrupts your thought process and/or awakens you from sleep.

These horrible events happen to you about five times a week, and they're roughly what hypergamy feels like to every woman.

Hypergamy is why women are grouchy. Hypergamy is why women are selfish. Hypergamy is why women aren't renowned for philosophical and scientific discoveries. But this isn't even a bad thing, nor it is the amusing part.

The amusing part is imagining a Beta / Equalist / Feminist man standing next to a woman with four missing fingers and a shattered jaw - (a particularly nasty Hypergamy-event) - and asking her for advice on handling his male boss. In a twisted version of Little Dark, he doesn't even acknowledge her massive suffering because "Her current painful state is not the focus here..."

And so the easiest way (and perhaps the only way) to drastically lose Amused Mastery is to expect Equalism from women. So we become better thinkers by amusedly refusing to expect Equalism.

Post: #21

DoBA, it's not that "they're all hypergamous", an obviously silly and exaggerated claim if it's to be understood in some goofy literal sense, as though every happily married woman is always frantically looking for the next best thing, and hungrily sucking off the pizza delivery guy while pissing on a likeness of her provider's earnest mug. That all happens, for sure, but to assert that it must happen in all or even most cases, or that it is the inevitable or even likely outcome of any marriage is to pretend to obvious absurdities that fly in the face of the facts -- including the facts as they are in the West right now.

What is true to say is that what might be called, for lack of a better term, "hypergamy", is a very deep part of female nature; and that this part of female nature can express itself under certain circumstances, if and when such circumstances arise. It is also true to say that women are, by and large, governed by their instincts and passions, rather than by more abstract ideals, such as honor, loyalty or justice. Again, this does not mean that a woman will betray you; if she loves you, or if she is kindly disposed, or if she is well enough satisfied, she may do nothing of the sort, ever; but it does mean that almost any woman is capable of betrayal in a way that some good men are essentially incapable of it; their ideals and commitments would not permit it no matter what they felt. That is something that can be said of almost no woman.

What follows from this, of course, is not that relationships between men and women (including successful lifelong marriages with children) are impossible, or not worth attempting, or even very likely to fail. But it does follow that they very often do not rest on quite as firm a foundation as most men like to imagine they do. Now, it is not necessary for a part of life to rest on an entirely firm foundation to be successful and satisfying; and the fact that a happy and good marriage (I mean the real thing, not sham "good and happy" but actually so) depends for its continuation on some measure of luck does not thereby render it worthless. But it does depend on some measure of luck to an extent that would make most simple-minded men quite unhappy if they truly realized it.

The truth about the problem of men and women -- and this has always been the case, long before any of the conditions that now obtain in the West -- is that the problem admits of no solution that guarantees good outcomes. Women are simply not built in such a way, and this fact has driven men -- who yearn for such guarantees perhaps more than anything else -- half crazy, and has led to the attempt of some societies to adopt some truly radical measures to enforce these guarantees; yet even these measures must and do fail -- the ideal patriarchy has never existed and never will. It has always been the case that a good man's life, built on years of work, honor, and justice, can be trashed and dishonored overnight through the actions of of a woman led by her instincts, and to whom work, honor and justice count for nothing when the moment of truth comes. Not that it must happen -- but it can, and so it always has been and always will be.

None of this implies that one need not bother, or that a good and successful marriage is impossible; in some contexts it may not only be possible, but perfectly likely. And in any case, the species must go on, and so it will, and men and women will continue to find ways to get together and get it done, no matter what anybody thinks or says. But for those men who are in search of a "solution" to the problem, one that immunizes them to the vagaries of female nature -- well, there is none to be found.

Post: #22

(04-24-2015 02:49 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  I think the "hypergamy doesn't lie" idea is the manosphere's version of "all men are rapists." I don't buy it. There's truth in it, sure, but I think men see what they want to see and ignore what doesn't fit their worldview.

I was thinking on whether there is a kernel of truth in 'rape is to a woman as hypergamy is to men'.

Most men would fight or attempt to stop a rapist if it was in their power to do so not join the rapist or encourage him with 'you go bro!'

On the other hand, most women would encourage a friend's hypergamy with 'you go girl!' It certainly wouldn't be shamed.

Post: #23

I think the average man is so invested in blue pill thinking that the writing needs to hit hard to wake them up, but to start thinking like this is only going to become a self fulfilling prophecy, and the bitterness will hurt your game because it will seep out. I personally try to always be aware of women's capacity for hypergamy, etc., at the back of my mind, while also trying to see the good in people, that we're all one, and enjoying connecting with women for what it is (a very enjoyable, valuable experience, but most likely temporary).

Most men are pretty shit people too let's not forget.

Post: #24

(04-24-2015 11:23 AM)nek Wrote:  I had the dirtiest sex ever with this one engaged chick when I jokingly said that I want to impregnate her and have her fiancée raise the kid. Man, the glisten in her eye when I said that was simultaneously the most arousing and terrifying thing I'd ever seen.

Can you imagine being the fiancee in this scenario and finding out about this conversation? Discovering that not only is the woman you're about to marry and commit to cheating on you, but that she and the guy she's fucking are making snide jokes about duping you in the most humiliating way possible...

It's this kind of stuff that I've never really been able to wrap my head around - the level of contempt and hostility that women display towards men whom they profess to "love".

Post: #25

(04-24-2015 02:49 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Maybe this works for people who are younger and haven't seen women in their age group grow old. But it doesn't work for someone like me who has made it into his forties and knows scads of actual real life females who have spent decades NOT behaving this way.

Me too. This ‘Hypergamy’ thing, is really a non-issue. You know what it is to me, just a girl at her prime trying to get the best deal in the sexual market-place while she can. So what??? Are some men actually surprised that attractive females actually sniff around for a better deal while they can….I don’t believe it. Men are actually surprised that a girl from 20 to 30 would be looking around for the best deal she can get while she’s in her prime. I do not understand what is so surprising about this? That would be like one of us looking for the best job we can with the education we have, while we are at our most competitive. So, we leave company A for company B because company B offers more money, more perks, etc….what, you’re surprised that company A is crying ‘Disloyalty’. Pfft. Life is short man. After about 30 a womans capacity for ‘hypergamy’ is seriously fucked. That’s only a ten year window for her to work her gifts. That’s small compared to a mans no? Most women, most of them, do not even have the option of ‘hypergamy’. Most are fucking ordinary, plain, and they find an ordinary plain man to get with. Should they leave him, I seriously doubt they’ll be getting remarried anytime soon to anything significantly better.

This 'hypergamy' crying is weak. If you're a quality man and don't punch too much out of your league, no one will be going anywhere.