Post: #1

Elon Musk introduced the Power Wall which is a battery storage for Solar power. Its cost about $3500 and it sounds like it can allow you to go off grid by powering your house. The question is it safe, and will power companies kill it before it gets mass usage?

You might not need solar power since it can store energy from the cheap times and cuts your usage down significantly as well.



Here are some notes from the video:

He announces Tesla energy.

Wants to harness the sun. Solar only works during the day. A battery will cover the rest.

Announces the tesla power wall. Its wall mounted anywhere. Its flat against wall and works with solar systems right out of the box. It backs up electricity if utilities are cut. Does DC conversion for you as well. Can stack up to 9 of them which is 90kw hours. One is 10 kw hs.

Will start shipping 3 or 4 months. They have a factory in Nevada which will really help production shortages that will occur in the beginning.

There is a Tesla PowerPack which can scale infinitely. He powered the facility it was presented in with the PowerPack. The first one is 1GWh. It would take 160,000,000 of them to power the US. Supposedly 900,000,000 of them would power the world. 2 billion would take care of all transportation.

Talks about a gigafactory but doesn't explain exactly what it does. Describes it as a product which is strange as well.

Post: #2

There are many questions.

Will Tesla ever get off of the government teat?

Will all Space X vehicles use them?

Does he seriously believe that battery power could power the whole world?

Does he seriously believe that A) they will stay $3500 if people start buying lots of them B) there is enough lithium to make enough of them to power most of the world?

In all honesty I am completely mystified by the Elon Musk phenomena. He seems like a con artist that gets people to throw good money at bad projects. All of his current companies should be insolvent by now. Only the government constantly propping up his ventures keep them from bankruptcy.

So I would take everything in that video with mountains of salt.

Hopefully there is more to the Power Wall than hot air and empty promises.

Post: #3

1 - Invent bigger batteries
2 - Charge batteries with ????
3 - Profit

Post: #4

I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

Post: #5

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Post: #6

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Anyone who sells products subsidized with my tax $$$ is a welfare queen.

Post: #7

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Do a little investigation.

All his companies should be bankrupt by now.

They survive on the back of the taxpayer.

Hell he even had the balls to sue the government for not giving him enough money.

Post: #8

"The issue with existing batteries is that they suck."

But these are filled with standard lithium ion cells, right? Existing batteries...that supposedly suck.

Under heavy daily use, a few cells are expected to fail or become inefficient every few months. I have a lot of experience with Li-ion cells, and 5000 cycles is a wild claim - they MIGHT get that in controlled lab conditions, but I doubt it would get 1000 IRL. Same as your laptop battery, you'd have to replace it every year or two.

That, combined with the outrageous cost of solar power, means you're looking at 30-50 cents per kwh (national average is 12.5) - assuming it works the way they claim it can. And that's IF you have a house and yard large enough to both power your home during the day while charging the device for night use.

Then there's usage. Peak time for power use spikes 2-3 times in the late afternoon and evening - when the solar grid wouldn't be producing much, if any, power. The spikes are around 6-8 kw, so this battery pack would last about 1.5-2 hours. You'd need 3 or 4 packs to go off grid...good luck charging them.

I don't think there's much of a consumer market for this at all. Maybe for a boat, RV or hunting cabin where the batteries could be charged all week and used briefly on the weekend.

Until there's a radical change in solar (or wind) efficiency and battery energy density, the grid is the only real option.

Post: #9

(05-03-2015 04:48 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Anyone who sells products subsidized with my tax $$$ is a welfare queen.

But he's actively making a difference.

Post: #10

(05-03-2015 04:50 PM)Darius Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Do a little investigation.

All his companies should be bankrupt by now.

They survive on the back of the taxpayer.

Hell he even had the balls to sue the government for not giving him enough money.

I don't see what the problem is.

Are you referring to when he sued the Air Force?

Post: #11

There is nothing environmentally friendly about lithium ion batteries. The Chinese make then cheaply by dumping massive quantities of toxic chemicals into rivers and lakes.

When the next downturn hits, Musk will be the first one ejected out of the wall street club.

If he wants to be truly green he would develop higher value capacitors or alternative energy creation schemes. Most "green" tech is far from green and doesn't make access or creation to electricity cheaper for the masses but more expensive.

Call me when he abandons this joke technology and starts working on thorium liquid salt reactors.

Post: #12

Quote:Do a little investigation.

All his companies should be bankrupt by now.

They survive on the back of the taxpayer.

Hell he even had the balls to sue the government for not giving him enough money.

The same happened with Silicon Knights, a game company in Canada near to where I live in Niagara Falls. Taking money from taxpayers and then later SUING Epic Games. I kept hoping they'd sue the Canadian govt for not giving them enough money so that everyone would see them for the farce they were. The only decent game they ever made was Eternal Darkness for the Gamecube.

They're bankrupt now (thankfully), but not before ripping off the taxpayers, me included.

Post: #13

Has he actually defaulted on a single loan? As it stands now, I believe he has paid every loan back or is actively paying the loans back with interest, which actually benefits taxpayers. Unless if you have a source for where he was just "handed" money from the government with no repayment terms? Because I wasnt aware that he has. . .

Post: #14

(05-03-2015 04:48 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Anyone who sells products subsidized with my tax $$$ is a welfare queen.

Well you could start with the entire American food production system...

I'd rather companies like Tesla be subsidized than Monsanto.

Musk is a remarkably poor speaker for someone in his position.

Post: #15

(05-03-2015 05:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  H As it stands now, I believe he has paid every loan back or is actively paying the loans back with interest, which actually benefits taxpayers.

This. For some reason people still like to bring the loan he took or the fact that a lot of taxpayer money goes towards his companies.

I have no problem with my taxpayer money going towards Spacex. I don't see how anyone could not support space exploration. Unless they are ignorant or short sighted.

With Tesla motors, I believe he borrowed well over 400 billion dollars. However, he paid all of this back several years early.

Post: #16

(05-03-2015 04:58 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  I don't see what the problem is.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-08...-subsidies

Post: #17

(05-03-2015 05:09 PM)Veloce Wrote:  Well you could start with the entire American food production system...

I'd rather companies like Tesla be subsidized than Monsanto.

Why should either be funded?

I'd rather that corrupt people not take my money and it give it to other corrupt people.

Post: #18

(05-03-2015 05:14 PM)Darius Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:09 PM)Veloce Wrote:  Well you could start with the entire American food production system...

I'd rather companies like Tesla be subsidized than Monsanto.

Why should either be funded?

I'd rather that corrupt people not take my money and it give it to other corrupt people.

Do you deny being corrupted yourself?

Post: #19

(05-03-2015 05:18 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:14 PM)Darius Wrote:  Why should either be funded?

I'd rather that corrupt people not take my money and it give it to other corrupt people.

Do you deny being corrupted yourself?

Are you trying to say it's okay to steal my money because I am corrupt?

Post: #20

(05-03-2015 05:22 PM)Darius Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:18 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:14 PM)Darius Wrote:  Why should either be funded?

I'd rather that corrupt people not take my money and it give it to other corrupt people.

Do you deny being corrupted yourself?

Are you trying to say it's okay to steal my money because I am corrupt?

Not at all. I just don't understand what you are complaining about. You bring up the fact that he's sued the government for more money but none of us here really understand that decision and why it was made.

Your main point is that his companies use a lot of taxpayer money. But i don't see the problem with that.

Post: #21

(05-03-2015 05:10 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  H As it stands now, I believe he has paid every loan back or is actively paying the loans back with interest, which actually benefits taxpayers.

This. For some reason people still like to bring the loan he took or the fact that a lot of taxpayer money goes towards his companies.

I have no problem with my taxpayer money going towards Spacex. I don't see how anyone could not support space exploration. Unless they are ignorant or short sighted.

With Tesla motors, I believe he borrowed well over 400 billion dollars. However, he paid all of this back several years early.

My problem is the ongoing tax dollars going to subsidize each car he sells. Why should my hard work be used to make a car cheaper for someone else?

As far as funding space exploration, I am down with that. However, I would do it voluntarily. I wouldn't support taking money from people at gunpoint to fund it.

I know there is a big man crush with this guy, but until he starts doing it on his own, I am not ready to get down on my knees and start sucking.

Post: #22

(05-03-2015 04:50 PM)Darius Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:46 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 04:25 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  I have a hard time believing anything welfare queens like Elon Musk say.

How is he a welfare queen?

Do a little investigation.

All his companies should be bankrupt by now.

They survive on the back of the taxpayer.

Hell he even had the balls to sue the government for not giving him enough money.

Links please. Don't spread unsubstantiated bullshit.

Tesla paid off it's federal loan a couple years ago:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/te...repayment/

I see the same vitriol written about Musk's other company — SpaceX and yet no one even mentions countless billion-dollar companies that receive federal funds in one way or another, like Lockheed, Boeing, General Dynamics etc.

Post: #23

Eternal Darkness was incredible however better than Resident Evil at the time. Its a shame they simply didn't make a sequel at the time.

There are talks of an Aluminum-ion battery which may they replace the lithium with. I'm fairly certain there is a lot more of that than lithium. Also the design is supposedly open source, so maybe they will be able to fix future problems a lot faster. Not sure how you would make money on that outside of technical support services.

Post: #24

(05-03-2015 05:27 PM)Old Fritz Wrote:  Your main point is that his companies use a lot of taxpayer money. But i don't see the problem with that.

So you would be okay with government giving me millions of dollars for my new company then?

It will be financially unviable.

Don't worry about what it is. Just trust that this money is being put to good use.

Post: #25

(05-03-2015 05:38 PM)kbell Wrote:  Eternal Darkness was incredible however better than Resident Evil at the time. Its a shame they simply didn't make a sequel at the time.

There are talks of an Aluminum-ion battery which may they replace the lithium with. I'm fairly certain there is a lot more of that than lithium. Also the design is supposedly open source, so maybe they will be able to fix future problems a lot faster. Not sure how you would make money on that outside of technical support services.

The problem is the energy density of aluminum is a lot lower than lithium. It's only advantage is that it can be charged faster...you can charge your phone in a few minutes.

That's a huge advantage, but it doesn't apply to whole-house systems.