Post: #1

I was just browsing glassdoor and I was a bit suprised at how low the salaries for IT jobs are in Manhattan on average. For example take Charlotte, NC.

Quote:Application Programmer
7 Bank of America Charlotte Salaries (of 33)
$96,459

Software Engineer
4 Bank of America Charlotte Salaries (of 32)
$105,340

I looked at NYC salaries and I expected them to be a lot higher(I am assuming these companies are located in Manhattan and not some other borough). According to the Cost of living calculator making $100k in Charlotte is equal to $234k in Manhattan. Obviously I'm not expecting salaries to come anywhere near that but I was expecting $150k the norm for Senior level employees in Manhattan and it seems like a lot of them are topping out at around $120-130k which you can straight up get close to in a lot of cities or at least the cost of living will put you well above that. For example 100K for Senior level in Philadelphia is common and thats equivalent to around $185k in Manhattan.

Is this kind of a case where the competition is so high the pay doesn't need to come close to meeting the rest of the country even with cost of living? I'm also assuming there is some niche markets up there(maybe financial?.. where guys are making bank and for the rest it's a pay cut).

Quote:Application Developer
150 IBM New York City Salaries (of 726)
$76,691


Senior Software Engineer
87 IBM New York City Salaries (of 480)
$112,660


Applications Developer
205 J.P. Morgan New York City Salaries (of 766)
$109,204


Senior Applications Developer
11 J.P. Morgan New York City Salaries (of 38)
$129,542


Systems Engineer
13 Bank of America New York City Salaries (of 36)
$105,644


Senior Database Administrator
2 Logicworks Salaries
$119,690

Post: #2

One thing regarding the cost of living. It is much higher in NY if you have a family and need a place with multiple bedrooms in a neighborhood with good schools, your own car, etc. If you are single and do without a car, the difference is less, especially if you live outside of Manhattan or share an apartment in Manhattan.

Post: #3

Yea it doesn't explain the fact that these jobs pay so little, but there's a ton of wealthy people in NYC. And competition is so high that it just decreases everyone's base salaries and I think the top dogs are more heavily compensated than the average system administrator kind of job guy. And Yea, ^^^ is right. Coming from someone who is still in college and living in Queens. The expense to live in boroughs besides Manhattan is significantly lower than NYC. My parents who make a combined income of less than 50k is still able to afford living for all of us. If you were to move and work in NYC, i would suggest moving into queens or Brooklyn because rent is cheap compared to the city and then just commute to work via subway (the best transportation ever) *cough*

Post: #4

Lots of people commute from Jersey to NYC. Lower cost of living in NJ.

Post: #5

(06-04-2015 05:22 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  One thing regarding the cost of living. It is much higher in NY if you have a family and need a place with multiple bedrooms in a neighborhood with good schools, your own car, etc. If you are single and do without a car, the difference is less, especially if you live outside of Manhattan or share an apartment in Manhattan.

Definitely true. The cost of living isn't a true indicator because you can get away with a studio apartment and no car while you can't say the same for most other cities. None the less still seems like low wages no matter what considering $2,000 a month for a studio is common.

Post: #6

(06-06-2015 01:14 AM)kitlolz123 Wrote:  If you were to move and work in NYC, i would suggest moving into queens or Brooklyn because rent is cheap compared to the city and then just commute to work via subway (the best transportation ever) *cough*

Any recommended decent areas of Brooklyn where the rent is reasonable? I know Williamsburg is basically like living in Manhattan with the prices. I guess the question is for an area where you get the benefits of living in the city in the first place.

Post: #7

A lot of banks' back office operations are outside Manhattan.

Post: #8

Remember, a lot of software dev gigs are given to men in their 20s and 30s. Ageism is a problem in IT especially software dev. I would plan on moving to a different hustle or an entry into management around 35.

Those salaries are that low because they're meant for people who just graduated college and have no life commitments yet. The 100k software dev gigs outside of Manhattan are meant for those people who want a house in the burbs. Though, I would still plan on moving into management past 35.

Post: #9

(06-06-2015 08:52 AM)The Wire Wrote:  

(06-06-2015 01:14 AM)kitlolz123 Wrote:  If you were to move and work in NYC, i would suggest moving into queens or Brooklyn because rent is cheap compared to the city and then just commute to work via subway (the best transportation ever) *cough*

Any recommended decent areas of Brooklyn where the rent is reasonable? I know Williamsburg is basically like living in Manhattan with the prices. I guess the question is for an area where you get the benefits of living in the city in the first place.

This does not exist. Williamsburg is probably your best bet, but as you have alluded, the rent is like Manhattan.

Depending on what your budget is, i would suggest the upper east side or east Harlem (Between 95th and 120th). You could get a studio for 1200-1500 here easy and have access to the finest women in NYC.

I currently stay in BK, but the 40min commute is getting really annoying especially since i work late sometimes. I am definitely moving uptown in a few months.

Post: #10

(06-06-2015 02:13 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Remember, a lot of software dev gigs are given to men in their 20s and 30s. Ageism is a problem in IT especially software dev. I would plan on moving to a different hustle or an entry into management around 35.

Definitely true to an extent since IT on a whole isn't like being a lawyer where the respect keeps going up as you age(for the most part). Depending on your specialty there is room past 35 in IT I've seen if you get to the point where you can be considered an architect for example. I agree management is by far the most room for growth, I just think I'd hate management hence i'd need a different hustle.

Quote:Those salaries are that low because they're meant for people who just graduated college and have no life commitments yet. The 100k software dev gigs outside of Manhattan are meant for those people who want a house in the burbs. Though, I would still plan on moving into management past 35.

I'm also talking about Senior level positions way out of the reach of recent graduates in NYC making $130k tops. Positions where they are looking for minimum of 10 years industry experience and 5+ years in different processes specific to that field. Those exact positions are making probably around 10% less in say Chicago but Chicago has much lower cost of living.

Post: #11

(06-07-2015 12:22 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(06-06-2015 02:13 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Remember, a lot of software dev gigs are given to men in their 20s and 30s. Ageism is a problem in IT especially software dev. I would plan on moving to a different hustle or an entry into management around 35.

Definitely true to an extent since IT on a whole isn't like being a lawyer where the respect keeps going up as you age(for the most part). Depending on your specialty there is room past 35 in IT I've seen if you get to the point where you can be considered an architect for example. I agree management is by far the most room for growth, I just think I'd hate management hence i'd need a different hustle.

Quote:Those salaries are that low because they're meant for people who just graduated college and have no life commitments yet. The 100k software dev gigs outside of Manhattan are meant for those people who want a house in the burbs. Though, I would still plan on moving into management past 35.

I'm also talking about Senior level positions way out of the reach of recent graduates in NYC making $130k tops. Positions where they are looking for minimum of 10 years industry experience and 5+ years in different processes specific to that field. Those exact positions are making probably around 10% less in say Chicago but Chicago has much lower cost of living.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those positions are fake. A lot of IT departments are required to post all new job postings to the internet for some goofy HR requirement. They'll submit crazy requirements that are way out of league with pay to discourage outside job applicants and instead just promote someone from within.

I know some "senior" developers who are in their mid 20s. Titles are pointless for the most part.

You'd probably be better starting your own business.

Post: #12

(06-06-2015 01:14 AM)kitlolz123 Wrote:  Yea it doesn't explain the fact that these jobs pay so little, but there's a ton of wealthy people in NYC. And competition is so high that it just decreases everyone's base salaries and I think the top dogs are more heavily compensated than the average system administrator kind of job guy. And Yea, ^^^ is right. Coming from someone who is still in college and living in Queens. The expense to live in boroughs besides Manhattan is significantly lower than NYC. My parents who make a combined income of less than 50k is still able to afford living for all of us. If you were to move and work in NYC, i would suggest moving into queens or Brooklyn because rent is cheap compared to the city and then just commute to work via subway (the best transportation ever) *cough*

You have private messaging disabled and I am unable to answer your PM.

Post: #13

Why isn't Hoboken mentioned at all? The Path train is pretty quick into Manhattan (much closer than Brooklyn) and runs all night.

Post: #14

(07-11-2015 07:21 AM)BallsDeep Wrote:  Why isn't Hoboken mentioned at all? The Path train is pretty quick into Manhattan (much closer than Brooklyn) and runs all night.

Hoboken isn't cheap either. IMO not worth it at all unless you work down in Financial District near the path train stops.

In terms of cheap places, Harlem isn't terrible but far away from the action. Astoria in Queens is cheap comparatively to a lot of other areas and if you work in Midtown it's something like a 20 minute commute.

There are cheap places in BK but they can take a while to get to.

Overall I'd much prefer having a shitty small apartment with good logistics than a large place where pulling girls back to is annoying as fuck. How much shit does one need anyways?

And I could be wrong but the "senior" title in a lot of those jobs are normally given to semi-recent college grads with 2-3 years of experience. My first promotion in two years or so will just be a change of title from consultant to senior consultant and a pay raise up near the neighborhood of 100k.

Post: #15

TLDR - Staying technically proficient gives you way more options and upside no matter the path you choose.

Are you guys software devs?

For experienced guys in a technology 6-8 years is the industry standard for being considered senior.

I know several guys in their late 20s that are critical for their small companies and lead development and are rightly considered senior.

A close family relative for instance was a Java dev for 15 years then switched to management. Her last company went under and her technical skills had atrophied. As a hands-off higher level manager there are not many jobs out there. She got a new job as a manager that demanded much more technical knowledge and input, she had to hit the grounding running really hard to sharpen the fuck back up having been technically absent for over 7 years.

Do not think running away from technical knowledge and going for a pure management is a good thing. It drastically limits your opportunities. In fact, I don't know how you can be an effective manager without staying fairly technical even at a level. Many companies fail due to having non-technical people trying have influence over and manage software development.

As for 35 and get to management, that is an outdated mantra that started because this is a new industry compared to others that have been around for hundreds of years. As the industry matures and number of jobs grow for software development over time you will see many older people stay technical. The people that tend to say this aren't really developers that view themselves and craftsman and want to be a master at it. They are devs that want a paycheck, these guys often move to management because it is more stable for families and mortgages, but your chance for making bigger money on contracts, start ups, and your own products is now cut off.

As long as you have proven success and keep up with technology (much like any other trade skill whether it is building furniture or making a surfboard) you will be sought after, especially if you have been the architect of robust and complex systems. Not many devs in their 20s have that experience.

I don't know how many of my friends in other professions have probably at least 2 unprovoked phone calls a week and at least 5 emails a week from recruiters when I haven't had an active job search website account or LinkedIn for 2 years.

Post: #16

For a start I wouldn't rely on Glassdoor figures. Their haphazard collection procedures result in very inaccurate figures. As seen here even in locations, like Manhattan, that generate much more than average number of data points. You'ld be better off just paying for a properly researched report on your industry. Some recruiting companies may prepare these. Check out the big ones.

Do IBM actually have any/many developers working in Manhattan? I thought most of their New York based developers worked up in Westchester County somewhere.

Post: #17

Any thoughts on technical support analyst/engineering roles? Open positions seems uncommon. They vary in terms of responsibilities and skills (typically depends on the product you're supporting)

Post: #18

(07-22-2015 11:39 AM)Player_1337 Wrote:  Any thoughts on technical support analyst/engineering roles? Open positions seems uncommon. They vary in terms of responsibilities and skills (typically depends on the product you're supporting)

They're worth checking out. Coming from Desktop Support, it's the next logical progression for someone in IT. The goal is to enter into management quickly as age will definitely impede your hiring later in life.

Post: #19

(07-22-2015 12:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(07-22-2015 11:39 AM)Player_1337 Wrote:  Any thoughts on technical support analyst/engineering roles? Open positions seems uncommon. They vary in terms of responsibilities and skills (typically depends on the product you're supporting)

They're worth checking out. Coming from Desktop Support, it's the next logical progression for someone in IT. The goal is to enter into management quickly as age will definitely impede your hiring later in life.

I'm not referring to hardware support- I'm talking about roles in the realm of working directly with software (functional issues/installs/performance/logging bugs).

Post: #20

(06-07-2015 12:22 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(06-06-2015 02:13 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Remember, a lot of software dev gigs are given to men in their 20s and 30s. Ageism is a problem in IT especially software dev. I would plan on moving to a different hustle or an entry into management around 35.

Definitely true to an extent since IT on a whole isn't like being a lawyer where the respect keeps going up as you age(for the most part). Depending on your specialty there is room past 35 in IT I've seen if you get to the point where you can be considered an architect for example. I agree management is by far the most room for growth, I just think I'd hate management hence i'd need a different hustle.

Quote:Those salaries are that low because they're meant for people who just graduated college and have no life commitments yet. The 100k software dev gigs outside of Manhattan are meant for those people who want a house in the burbs. Though, I would still plan on moving into management past 35.

I'm also talking about Senior level positions way out of the reach of recent graduates in NYC making $130k tops. Positions where they are looking for minimum of 10 years industry experience and 5+ years in different processes specific to that field. Those exact positions are making probably around 10% less in say Chicago but Chicago has much lower cost of living.

Those numbers are accurate, but in many instances they only reflect the Base. Bonus can be another 30k-100k on top of that.