Post: #1

I recently recovered from a serious illness where I wasn't able to exercise much for quite a while, and it did quite a number on my physical condition.

Fortunately I've been doing better, and have been cutting way back on carb consumption and calories in general. I've definitely noticed a difference over the past couple months and my body fat percentage is going down. Because of the aftereffects of the illness it's still hard for me to do much lifting besides with dumbbells, or jog long distances, and I get tired easily, but I try to get out and like "power walk" at least a mile or two every day. I'm in my mid 30s.

My body is still definitely what I'd call "skinnyfat" - my lower legs and arms are in decent shape, but my thighs, midsection and chest are still flabby as hell. I'm hoping to have some good dates in the next couple months, so I'd like to do as much as I can to rectify this issue as best I can as soon as possible, given the medical constraints that I still feel I have to work around. I've been cleared by my doctor at my last physical for whatever. Any advice would be appreciated.

Post: #2

Precisely what medical constraints? Precisely what are your new physical constraints?

If the serious illness hasn't done any permanent damage (as your doctor's 'clearance' implies), proceed as normal.

Post: #3

(06-13-2015 09:58 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Precisely what medical constraints? Precisely what are your new physical constraints?

If the serious illness hasn't done any permanent damage (as your doctor's 'clearance' implies), proceed as normal.

No permanent damage likely, other than I still suffer from flares of physical pain occasionally, and I get fatigued very easily. I'm hoping that will completely resolve in time, but for now any workout routine will need to be somewhat less intense than for other men my age, and I can't keep pushing for as long timewise as others can.

Post: #4

Swimming might be perfect. Start with how ever much you can do before you are worn out, and then continue to increase lap count and speed as you get stronger.

Post: #5

(06-13-2015 10:23 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Swimming might be perfect. Start with how ever much you can do before you are worn out, and then continue to increase lap count and speed as you get stronger.

That's a good idea. I used to be an excellent swimmer but haven't done it in a long time. I know a pool I can use.

Post: #6

(06-13-2015 10:04 AM)XPQ21 Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 09:58 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Precisely what medical constraints? Precisely what are your new physical constraints?

If the serious illness hasn't done any permanent damage (as your doctor's 'clearance' implies), proceed as normal.

No permanent damage likely, other than I still suffer from flares of physical pain occasionally, and I get fatigued very easily. I'm hoping that will completely resolve in time, but for now any workout routine will need to be somewhat less intense than for other men my age, and I can't keep pushing for as long timewise as others can.

I can relate. What you need to do is watch the volume and frequency on your weightlifting. Some guys will say, "I lift five times a week..." blah blah... yeah, don't do that. Limit yourself to 3x with a full recovery day in between: i.e. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Keep things intense and don't let workouts drag on too long. Lift heavy but not too many sets.

Moderate caloric surplus and keep plugging away as the fat drops off slowly.

High frequency, and high volume is really for when you are in a caloric surplus, are younger, or using steroids.

Think of it like this: when in a caloric deficit, it's as if you are creating state of premature aging for your body.

I don't think there's a quick fix other than TRT.

Post: #7

At your state right now, if I've read it correctly, you could go into a gym and do basically any routine with any training protocol as long as it involved weights and was at least twice a week and make gains. Why not look up something for beginners like the Powerlifting to Win Newbie Program or Starting Strength? There are no newbie lifter questions that haven't been already answered a thousand times.

Post: #8

Sounds like an issue of diet. If your trying to lose the flab, cut calories while maintaining a high protein diet. As you get older and metabolism slows, you have to be more careful with what you eat. I get that you can't do heavy weights, but you can still be thinner amd leaner.

Post: #9

Edit: I just saw where I posted the word "surplus" above...that should be "deficit".

Post: #10

(06-13-2015 09:45 AM)XPQ21 Wrote:  My body is still definitely what I'd call "skinnyfat" - my lower legs and arms are in decent shape, but my thighs, midsection and chest are still flabby as hell.

Forget about cardio or any HIIT exercises for now, since you just want to look good.

Focus on two elements in your workouts, 3x/week:
- Compound lifts i.e. squats (thighs), barbell rows (upper-back, delts), bench/overhead presses (chest, shoulders)
- Assistance exercises like curls, dips, dumbell work etc.

Bump up your protein intake to 80-90% of your bodyweight in lbs. Reduce or eliminate carb intake especially during late evenings/nights, except after your workout.

Post: #11

P.S.: Starting Strength (or some variant) or Stronglifts would be a great start. Tweak the program to suit your style.

Post: #12

(06-14-2015 05:27 PM)capote Wrote:  P.S.: Starting Strength (or some variant) or Stronglifts would be a great start. Tweak the program to suit your style.

No it wouldn't.

Didn't you read the OP??

Post: #13

The basic layout of that program could be a useful template, but it's not possible to increase weights as fast as SS calls for on a deficit.

I do believe compound lifts plus pull-ups are the way to go. Skip the assistance work.

Post: #14

This guy is a great source. His stuff has helped me even though I haven't been the traditional skinny fat.

http://skinnyfattransformation.com

Post: #15

Getting out of skinnyfat territory is a simple a case building more muscle and losing all the unneeded fat.

What most skinnyfats don't realize is that BECAUSE they have such little muscle mass the big amount of fat that they're carrying on their bodies (which is oftentimes easily 20-20% bodyfat) makes them merely look "average" in their size. If they would get a bit of muscle they'll very quickly become chubby and fat looking. That's why it's important makes this 2 pronged approach, mostly focusing on losing fat in the beginning

Post: #16

I used to have a problem with skinny fat, and ironically that was when I was doing a lot of cardio. When I was in peak form doing cardio (like during bike racing season), I kept the skinny fat off... but as soon as I go into the off season, it comes right back on. And if I lifted weights, I'd bulk up, but the fat would stay on and I'd just look a bit fatter.

A low glycemic diet (toss out all the processed foods) helps lose the fat and keep it off. Better to cut first, then lift. Your mileage may vary.

Post: #17

Seriously, the OP is describing something that sounds a lot like ME, or something similarly serious, is in his mid 30s, and starting essentially from scratch, and the advice is to slap a barbell on his back and squat?

In my opinion much of this advice is terrible, and strength focused barbell routines aimed at 18-25 year old athletes are not what a guy in his mid 30s who is bouncing back from serious illness should even be considering.

My advice, for what it is worth, would be as follows:

Diet - this is the most important thing. Get it in check - if you are not already, start eating like an adult.

Basic diet template -

1. Eat 3 quality meals each day, ensure you are hungry by the time the next meal comes around - you should feel like you are eating less calories than you'd like. Go to bed hungry.

2. Cut dairy, milk, sugar and wheat initially. I think, with the exception of sugar, these are great foods for an active performance focused athlete, but it is very easy to take in too many calories without realising it. It is very, very hard to get fat on meat and vegetables.

3. Don't worry about meal timing, suppliments, or any of that crap. That stuff is the final few percent once everything else is dialed in.


Basic training template -

1. Bodyweight only - do the basics: pushups, pullups, bodyweight squats, bodyweight leg curls, crunches and leg raises, superman holds.

2. To start with: 1 set of each of pushups, chins, squats, leg curls. 3-5 sets of 10-20 on the ab work. Do all this every day.

3. When you do your 1 set, try to beat the previous day's reps. When you can do 10 chinups, 60+pushups, 100 bw squats, 50 leg curls each leg, then try to increase the volume to a total amount of daily reps - eg 200 pushups, 30 pullups, 500 bw squats, 200 leg curls, 250 total ab reps.

4. If you can't do that, I don't think you have any business launching straight into barbell work. You're coming back from something serious, be smart about it, there are no quick fixes.

5. Once you can do all that, for your goals as stated, you should consider more aesthetics focused bodybuilding style programs.

Post: #18

Eat Clen & Tren hard.

Post: #19

(06-15-2015 09:26 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Seriously, the OP is describing something that sounds a lot like ME, or something similarly serious, is in his mid 30s, and starting essentially from scratch, and the advice is to slap a barbell on his back and squat?

In my opinion much of this advice is terrible, and strength focused barbell routines aimed at 18-25 year old athletes are not what a guy in his mid 30s who is bouncing back from serious illness should even be considering.

My advice, for what it is worth, would be as follows:

Diet - this is the most important thing. Get it in check - if you are not already, start eating like an adult.

Basic diet template -

1. Eat 3 quality meals each day, ensure you are hungry by the time the next meal comes around - you should feel like you are eating less calories than you'd like. Go to bed hungry.

2. Cut dairy, milk, sugar and wheat initially. I think, with the exception of sugar, these are great foods for an active performance focused athlete, but it is very easy to take in too many calories without realising it. It is very, very hard to get fat on meat and vegetables.

3. Don't worry about meal timing, suppliments, or any of that crap. That stuff is the final few percent once everything else is dialed in.


Basic training template -

1. Bodyweight only - do the basics: pushups, pullups, bodyweight squats, bodyweight leg curls, crunches and leg raises, superman holds.

2. To start with: 1 set of each of pushups, chins, squats, leg curls. 3-5 sets of 10-20 on the ab work. Do all this every day.

3. When you do your 1 set, try to beat the previous day's reps. When you can do 10 chinups, 60+pushups, 100 bw squats, 50 leg curls each leg, then try to increase the volume to a total amount of daily reps - eg 200 pushups, 30 pullups, 500 bw squats, 200 leg curls, 250 total ab reps.

4. If you can't do that, I don't think you have any business launching straight into barbell work. You're coming back from something serious, be smart about it, there are no quick fixes.

5. Once you can do all that, for your goals as stated, you should consider more aesthetics focused bodybuilding style programs.

Solid advice, but

... some would argue that daily 200 pushups, 500 squats etc might be a little bit more hard on the body than starting a barbell program with just the bar...? He has to do all that before even considering a bodybuilding program? Real talk dude

I'm certain OP would have no problem starting on a barbell program (SS, SL etc) if weights kept low at start

Post: #20

I'm going to say I think barbell work can actually be easier than bodyweight workouts if you don't increase the weight too fast.

http://startingstrength.com/site/video/s...r_too_late

Post: #21

I know where you guys are coming from, but personally I disagree. The thing with the whole SL/SS 'start light and make long term progress' thing, is that all you are really doing is starting way below your base strength levels, with an extremely light weight, and then spending weeks or months working up to a level of strength you already have, before you then make a few months progress if you're lucky, before stalling.

If you've already been sick, or for whatever reason have a very low initial base of strength, my own view is that 5x5 programs are horrible, as they do not build a particularly large work capacity, nor do they leave you much room to progress, particularly if, as our friend in the OP has suggested, you are already unable to 'bulk'.

It is my view that a longer term approach aimed at increasing work capacity is far more beneficial than a quick strength spurt that would most likely leave OP with some extremely underwhelming numbers in powerlifts he probably cares very little for. Much better to increase the amount of submax work you can do gradually, without unduly stressing yourself.

I'm not entirely sure what 'real talk dude' means, as I'm not tremendously hip, but I would say that 10 sets of 20 pushups done throughout the day once your max set is around 60 reps is a very mild stress on the body, compared to a progressive 5x5 add weight each session/each week type program. That is the point, to my mind, of doing it. In addition it will build a greater all round work capacity, even if (debatably) it builds less strength. I would say that I consider the numbers I posted for total daily volume to be very low. I typically do hundreds of pushups situps and BW squats each day (each set being well below a rep max), and the only side effects are greater work capacity, healthier joints, and 'sick abs'.

Post: #22

I did some bodyweight work before Starting Strength myself, but if insulin resistance is playing a role in fat gain, I'm not sure that bodyweight work is intense enough to fix the metabolic issues. I recommend the OP watch Doug McGuff's presentation to the 21 Convention on YouTube. He goes into the biochemistry of insulin resistance, fat loss, and the role of intense exercise.

Post: #23

Best workout is always going to be the one you enjoy the most - it's going to be callisthenics for some, barbell work for others, or maybe something like swimming suggested earlier

I personally beat "skinny fat" myself with kettlebell training and MMA. Truth is everyone "knows" how to lose weight or gain muscle. Just fuck all people actually stick to something long enough to reap the benefits. If OP sticks to any of the above programs for 3 months he will have great results

Post: #24

To get insulin to work in your favour, you have to get your body fat levels under control. This is what I am working on right now.

Ideally, you want your body fat levels at 10-12% before even considering muscle gain. Otherwise you're going to be bouncing around between weight gain and weight loss without significant progress in either direction.

For those who are skinny fat, weight loss should be your priority. Lift weights/do cardio while you do it, but lose that fat. Get as lean as possible. Then add on mass, slowly.

Post: #25

Some good information here, other information I cannot agree with. As a guy who's intimately familiar with the topic I thought I'd weigh in and lay out what I strongly believe to the best way to know the problem and tackle it.

Skinny-fat is looked upon in the fitness community as a 'special' condition that requires a 'special' method to combat it ("Only eat clean foods from now on!"). This is not true, it is nothing special, and the mechanics behind building muscle and losing fat are simple and remain the same for all people, skinny-fat or not.

What skinny-fat is, is simply the short end of the stick in terms of body genetics. It is poor genetics, hormones, and structure, which lead to a certain Worst of Both Worlds: 1) a tiny 'ecto' frame, PLUS, 2) a massive depositing of fat all over it.

The website Skinny Fat Transformation does well to demonstrate this root of the problem. However, paradoxically, the site still takes the 'special method' route in dealing with it, and in line with this, the owner's sudden ascension to a 'normal' or 'super-normal' progression, when the whole point is that he's sub-normal, makes me think he's on TRT. But it's a business after all.

TRT is a legitimate cure and will shave off years of a painful body recompositioning journey. But if you're gonna go the natty route here's what I suggest:

1. Set aside conventional bodybuilding advice. With your genetic profile it doesn't apply to you. Most of it is written by gifted & juicing bodybuilders and powerlifters.
"Bulking" will turn you from skinny-fat to morbidly obese with your poor metabolism and partitioning.
"Recompositioning" is not an option because of your poor hormones. If they were good enough to allow it, then your body wouldn't be resting in a skinny-fat state in the first place. Even if hypothetically you could, it would still be way too slow compared to straight up fat loss.
"Cutting slowly" won't work because your basal metabolic rate will naturally be very low.
"Going hard" in the gym with a vast array of exercises will be a waste of time, as initially you're gonna be cutting (see below) and your body won't even be anabolic to make good on your efforts.

2. Get a DEXA Scan. This is of FUNDAMENTAL IMPORTANCE. An absolute MUST. Drive far and away to do it. Pay for a hotel in the big city where scans are done if you have to. A scan in my city costs $125, but the information it gave me was so illuminating upon hearing it that I would have paid a grand to know it.

A DEXA scan, for those who don't know, is a low-intensity x-ray that determines body composition (lean mass vs. body fat) accurately in a way that calipers or visual inspection cannot. As a skinny-fat, the results thereof will be depressing. The scan will show that your body fat percentage vs. lean mass ratio is significantly worse than even your most unflattering estimates. It will show that you don't have a normal frame, but that you all along you've had a small frame underneath an illusion of fat. It will show that in order to get normally lean you will have to lose a huge amount of bodyweight and become very, very 'skinny'. All depressing, but also uplifting, because now you know for sure what you have to do.

3. Diet AGGRESSIVELY to a low bodyweight. Stay on a calorie restricted diet for as much as 6 months to shed bodyweight and reveal your underlying frame. Make the diet meat-focused for satiety/fullness and for the protein. Add in regular cardio to rack up higher deficits. Again, don't listen to thick-framed juicers talking about "cutting slowly". They can say "I'm cutting at 2700 cals brah!". That's their world. With your metabolism you may have to go sub-1500. This will be a period of severe mental hardship.

4. Do calisthenics. The purpose of lifting weights during a calorie deficit is to preserve muscle mass. The purpose of doing calisthenics here rather than barbell work is that it's simply more time-efficient. Jumping on a dip bar and cranking out some reps is just a lot easier than going through the motions of loading up a barbell and getting spotted for some intense reps on the bench. You have barely any muscle in the first place, and it's not gonna go up much while you're dieting, so better to just mentally and time-wise do the bare minimum to preserve what little you have now. One added benefit of calisthenics is that your reps will go up as you lose weight.

5. Once you're gotten to a level of leanness you're satisfied with, maintain or eat very slightly above maintenance for years and very slowly pack on mass. Never "bulk". The take-away here is that as a skinny-fat "The Diet" never really ends. Your body, your natural appetite, and your metabolism/hormones, want you to be a skinny-fat. To prevent a return to this you need to maintain the constant vigilance of a diet even though you're not actually on one anymore calorie-wise. This is where eating "clean" works.

Here are 2 strong examples of exactly I'm talking about. First guy, probably normal BMI, normal arms, but conspicuously puffy belly. Leans out and a tiny frame is revealed. Second guy, Indian, is somehow simultaneously 45% body fat yet has twig arms and tiny wrists. Loses a quarter of his bodyweight yet is still kind of fluffy.

Hope this helps. It would have helped me immensely starting out. Skinny-fats are often chided for a lack of effort based on a lack of results, but behind the scenes we are the ones who have to work the hardest.