Post: #1

After spending much of my early and mid 20's stuck in the morass that is 'Murican "academia" I've gradually managed to break myself out of many of the toxic lifestyle patterns that caught me during that unfortunate period of my life. These past few months I've taken on a project of renovating my body getting back into and exceeding that peak fitness I had when I left high school with visible abs which would switfly be concealed by part time work, a load of courses, and a meal plan that covered nothing but buffet meals.

In my renovation project so far I've mostly been doing endurance work and strength training with dumdbells and bodyweight. I never got absurdly overweight. I started my red pill mental rehab of the mind well before I started rehabing the body. Once I started rehabbing the body though I started feeling really good. After the first month I was still mostly hitting the same bars and enjoying substantially more unsolicited, positive attention from the womenfolk. I am feeling great and only feeling better. The abuse of thousands of cigarettes and untold tankers of hard liquor are melting to yield a better and harder me. Perhaps relevant is that so far this has been a solitary endeavor I have larely kept a secret. I visited a long time friend recently and they were confused when the found me doing crunches in between sets of push ups when my only answer for my behavior was boredom.

As I reclaim my body and its potential for myself though I find a hunger for something I can not do alone. I want to test myself. I want to hit and get hit, or at least risk getting hit. I want to throw my reclaimed motivation into a combat sport and finish this process of rising above the mangina sea. A decade late I have rediscovered that feeling of being alive I lost in academia and dammit now I want to live.

In my preliminary research I am leaning towards boxing. While boxing poses the highest risk, boxing conditioning most resembles my current program, but amped up to the next level. I also love the sheer amount of history attached to the sport. At 5'7" to compete I would have to likely condition myself into a light welterweight or welterweight, which I could maintain as a walking around weight. I'd like to get into competing as an amateur and seeing what happens from there.

On the downside I've got a missing decade I could have spent on cultivating physical prowess and learning how to move. On the upside I've got a thick neck.

How would other people approach this dilemma. Before I finish conditioning do I get some lessons with a coach to learn the jab so I can hang a bag and work that, checking in occasionally? Do I wait until I am nearly conditioned and join a gym? Or I do say fuck it and leap into a gym now? I lean towards the first option because I don't want to waste anyone's time yet, though I want to get enough knowledge to be able to practice the right thing.

Post: #2

Fuck it and jump into a gym now.

Post: #3

Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

I'm a BJJ guy and I recommend boxing over it for a lot of reasons, some of the major ones being that it builds more mental toughness and you can become proficient in boxing much quicker than you can BJJ. You can also end a fight with boxing much quicker than you can with BJJ.

Just go down to your local boxing gym (not cardio boxing, real boxing) and get started.

Post: #4

(06-22-2015 02:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

I'm a BJJ guy and I recommend boxing over it for a lot of reasons, some of the major ones being that it builds more mental toughness and you can become proficient in boxing much quicker than you can BJJ. You can also end a fight with boxing much quicker than you can with BJJ.

Just go down to your local boxing gym (not cardio boxing, real boxing) and get started.

I appreciate the quick feedback. I went out to punish the sidewalk with my feet after hitting publish and already there's useful feedback.

I'll start scouting places once the damn sun comes up. I need to take this damn goal off the pedestal, stop working around to it, and just work right on it.

Post: #5

Whatever combat sport you pick make sure regular sparring is part of the training. This well separate legit schools from the mcdojos.

Post: #6

(06-22-2015 03:26 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 02:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

I'm a BJJ guy and I recommend boxing over it for a lot of reasons, some of the major ones being that it builds more mental toughness and you can become proficient in boxing much quicker than you can BJJ. You can also end a fight with boxing much quicker than you can with BJJ.

Just go down to your local boxing gym (not cardio boxing, real boxing) and get started.

I appreciate the quick feedback. I went out to punish the sidewalk with my feet after hitting publish and already there's useful feedback.

I'll start scouting places once the damn sun comes up. I need to take this damn goal off the pedestal, stop working around to it, and just work right on it.

The thing about joining a gym where you'll get live sparring every time you go, you won't even need to go out running.

I spent two months doing boxing/grappling at my gym with intermittent fasting and I lost about 15 kilos. At most I would hit the exercise bike for a quick 5-10 km on days I had extra energy to burn.

Post: #7

(06-22-2015 01:37 AM)BBinger Wrote:  Do I wait until I am nearly conditioned and join a gym? Or I do say fuck it and leap into a gym now? I lean towards the first option because I don't want to waste anyone's time yet, though I want to get enough knowledge to be able to practice the right thing.

The only way to waste time here is by putting off something you want to do, and it's your own time you'll be wasting. Find a gym, go, start training.

Post: #8

General speaking with over 30 you are to old for boxing matches. Still you can join a gym and take part in the sparring and master a very good level. I don't know how are the laws in the US are, if you are older then 31 in Germany they refuse to give you an amateur license.

The others advices are already there. Start now, not tomorrow.

Post: #9

(06-22-2015 02:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

I'm a BJJ guy and I recommend boxing over it for a lot of reasons, some of the major ones being that it builds more mental toughness and you can become proficient in boxing much quicker than you can BJJ. You can also end a fight with boxing much quicker than you can with BJJ.

Just go down to your local boxing gym (not cardio boxing, real boxing) and get started.

Rio, how long do you think it takes to become good enough at BJJ to be confident in your ground abilities in a fight? I've been boxing for a year now and added BJJ on top of that a few months ago. I enjoy it, but I don't know that I enjoy it enough to put in years and years of consistent work towards belts, I'd like to get pretty good and then train something else, or just keep up with it while also staying in the boxing gym.

Post: #10

Similar age, I'm doing Krav Maga (and lifting, plus cardio).

Post: #11

(06-22-2015 02:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

Definitely true. I always wanted to try a martial art but I put it off for a whole year while I pretended to get into shape or research different styles.

In the end I went with Muay Thai because it was closest to my house and I wanted a world-wide discipline so I can continue it as I travel. It's been good so far, definitely gets you into shape.

Post: #12

You are not too old. Especially, if your body is in decent condition (I mean no football injuries, etc.). If it is just fat, it will melt off.

Golden Gloves I think has a 34 year old age limit. There is also something called Old Dogs/Masters.

Just declare you will find a place by the end of the week and report back.

There is an entire lifting and boxing thread in the forum started b Veloce which I found good info for when I started boxing. Find this thread and read it.

I started 10 months ago and one of the best decisions I have made lately.

Don't be afraid to change trainers if you are not getting what you need. Some trainers, even at the one I train at which is pretty famous, will just you like a guy off the street and won't teach you. It will just be like an intense cardio class. If you want to spar make sure your intentions are clear from the start. You want a trainer that is adjusting you for every mistake you make. If you spend a lot of time self training, you may learn some bad habits.

Post: #13

I am still appreciating this feedback. I've started making a short list of local gyms in the area to inquire about. I live at the rural edge of my metropolis's area so the promising gyms are going to a drive. Hopefully I'll settle into a place next month. I'll ask around and commit to attending a place regularly by August.

Conditioning wise there's substantial football injuries. I've just been putting too much tar and creosote into the lungs for too long. Fat's been coming off, muscle's been going on. Stamina's not where I'd like it to be, but progress is happening a lot faster than I'd been expecting it to.

I'm getting pretty amped about making this jump.

Post: #14

Would recommend boxing, but 30 isnt old by any stretch. With older guys(40+), a random arm bar on any given night can put you out for weeks, especially rolling around with these young bucks in this thread.

Post: #15

If you are competitive, I would recommend BJJ first. Jiu-jitsu tournaments have age brackets and you can literally train and compete well into old age. No risk of concussions/brain injuries like getting hit in the head repeatedly.

Post: #16

(06-22-2015 07:35 AM)Galahad Wrote:  General speaking with over 30 you are to old for boxing matches. Still you can join a gym and take part in the sparring and master a very good level. I don't know how are the laws in the US are, if you are older then 31 in Germany they refuse to give you an amateur license.

The others advices are already there. Start now, not tomorrow.

It's looking like there's options to compete even into old age.

(06-22-2015 09:52 AM)Hedonistic Traveler Wrote:  In the end I went with Muay Thai because it was closest to my house and I wanted a world-wide discipline so I can continue it as I travel. It's been good so far, definitely gets you into shape.

Living at the edge of a metropolitain area with suburbs on one side and corn on the other there's some serious distance between here and anything that isn't a child oriented karate outfit. Expanding into the larger area there seems to a quite a few MMA outfits including one rather prominent one.

(06-22-2015 09:53 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  You are not too old. Especially, if your body is in decent condition (I mean no football injuries, etc.). If it is just fat, it will melt off.

Golden Gloves I think has a 34 year old age limit. There is also something called Old Dogs/Masters.

Just declare you will find a place by the end of the week and report back.

There is an entire lifting and boxing thread in the forum started b Veloce which I found good info for when I started boxing. Find this thread and read it.

I started 10 months ago and one of the best decisions I have made lately.

Don't be afraid to change trainers if you are not getting what you need. Some trainers, even at the one I train at which is pretty famous, will just you like a guy off the street and won't teach you. It will just be like an intense cardio class. If you want to spar make sure your intentions are clear from the start. You want a trainer that is adjusting you for every mistake you make. If you spend a lot of time self training, you may learn some bad habits.

The cardio places have been the bane of this search. Found two very promising leads though and some mystery meat to sift through. It's funny how the serious gyms and trainers are far more affordable than the Cardio places.

I stumbled into USA Boxing's club locator and it has been a tremendous help in finding places which train competitors.

(06-22-2015 07:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  If you are competitive, I would recommend BJJ first. Jiu-jitsu tournaments have age brackets and you can literally train and compete well into old age. No risk of concussions/brain injuries like getting hit in the head repeatedly.

I have to confess the danger is a large part of my attraction to boxing as a place to start. Danger is a hell of a motivator. Then there's the cultural and historical role the sweet science has played.

I respect BJJ and the serious impact it has had on combat sports, especially in the early days of MMA when the Gracie family dominated early meeting of the arts. I'm not ruling out exploring BJJ ( or Muy Thai or WWII combatives) eventually. For me though Boxing has a stronger cultural hold.

Post: #17

^^^ I guess I wasn't perfectly clear. My place is not where they do cardio classes. I train where I see tons of pro fighters come through. But even then, there are trainers that don't take training seriously if you are not a pro. It is just all that they can do given that they are older and boxing is all they know. So if you want to actually compete you need a trainer that understands this is your goal from the start.

If at some point you sense they don't care about your dream then you need to change trainers. While your training you will meet other trainers and you can observe how they work with their boxers. I've had three trainers. The first one is just what I sort of got assigned. He missed a session and another one was around that day and I worked with him. But realized he wasn't really interested in more than my money and getting me a good sweat. But my technique wasn't really being watched. He then got hired to prep a boxer for a fight out of the country and used that as an opportunity to switch to my current trainer.

My current trainer is a younger guy. He was an alternate on the Olympic team. Gives a shit about my progress. Shadow spars with with me and thumps me when I don't have the right technique. My second trainer threw me into a sparring match with no instruction. You can read about it in the lifting and boxing thread. I beat him badly but I was in a full on rage. The trainer gave me no instruction during the match. I just saw blood. I have been working with my current trainer to be more in control. So make sure you find someone who is looking out for your well being.

Also, don't prepay even if it sounds like a bargain. Just pay as you go. It keeps your trainer honest and you can drop your trainer if it isn't working out instead of continuing to train because you prepaid.

Good luck!

Post: #18

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Post: #19

(06-22-2015 07:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  If you are competitive, I would recommend BJJ first. Jiu-jitsu tournaments have age brackets and you can literally train and compete well into old age. No risk of concussions/brain injuries like getting hit in the head repeatedly.

You can train boxing in a safe manner, just as you can train BJJ in a safe manner. You can also train BJJ in a very unsafe manner and fuck your body up really good.

I know older guys who have trained BJJ for a long time, and they don't get brain injuries, but there is a shit load of torn ACLs and fucked up necks and backs.

I think the brain injury worry is way overblown for a boxer who doesn't plan to go pro or compete seriously in the amateurs.

And in my opinion, for BJJ to be effective, you have to train takedowns regularly, which really increases your chance of injury. If you train at a buttscooting school (a very large percentage of them these days) I don't see it as an effective martial art at all.

Of course I'm a BJJ hater these days (though I did just have a lot of fun rolling nogi after not hitting the mats for months) so I am a bit biased towards boxing.

If there is an old school Carlson Gracie type of gym around your area though, that would be a great place to train. That old school takedown, smash and pass style of BJJ is the real deal.

Post: #20

(06-22-2015 07:38 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 02:06 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Waiting to get into shape before joining is what pussies with zero intention to actually train always say they are going to do, so don't do that.

Just get your ass down to a gym tomorrow. Stop over thinking it and just go.

I'm a BJJ guy and I recommend boxing over it for a lot of reasons, some of the major ones being that it builds more mental toughness and you can become proficient in boxing much quicker than you can BJJ. You can also end a fight with boxing much quicker than you can with BJJ.

Just go down to your local boxing gym (not cardio boxing, real boxing) and get started.

Rio, how long do you think it takes to become good enough at BJJ to be confident in your ground abilities in a fight? I've been boxing for a year now and added BJJ on top of that a few months ago. I enjoy it, but I don't know that I enjoy it enough to put in years and years of consistent work towards belts, I'd like to get pretty good and then train something else, or just keep up with it while also staying in the boxing gym.

1-2 years. It depends on how often you train, how often your gym trains takedowns, how non-sport oriented your gym is, etc.

The more oldschool, basic, what some would call "boring" Jiu Jitsu is what will get you street ready (if there is such a thing) and confident in your abilities much, much quicker.

Post: #21

(06-22-2015 10:06 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  [quote='Checkmat' pid='1050007' dateline='1435020670']
And in my opinion, for BJJ to be effective, you have to train takedowns regularly, which really increases your chance of injury. If you train at a buttscooting school (a very large percentage of them these days) I don't see it as an effective martial art at all.

I really wish Judo wasn't turned into such a spectator sport. The throws and takedowns are brutal, except now you can't grab the legs. That simple rule killed so many effective takedowns. All in the name of keeping it "fun to watch", which I understand from a monetary point of view.

Post: #22

(06-22-2015 04:12 PM)BBinger Wrote:  Conditioning wise there's substantial football injuries.

There's a lack of substantial football injuries and the link. I didn't catch the missing word until after the 60 minute edit window.

Post: #23

Rio - why and how did you become BJJ hater? Or I am missing the point reading your post literally?

(06-22-2015 10:13 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  I really wish Judo wasn't turned into such a spectator sport. The throws and takedowns are brutal, except now you can't grab the legs. That simple rule killed so many effective takedowns. All in the name of keeping it "fun to watch", which I understand from a monetary point of view.

It was also done to push away itself from wrestling and MMA world. I can actually understand it - it's not in Judo interest to frequently lose fighters to MMA and after this changes fights really got more exciting for spectators (I find wrestling way more boring to watch). Yes, "No grabbing legs rule" partially crippled judo fighters training and ability, but they seem much safer right now regarding staying as Olympic sport. Which has to be #1 priority for them.

Post: #24

I too am curious why Rio did a complete 180 on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Anyway, to the OP pick your poison. Boxing and BJJ have injury risks of course. You seem to be gravitating towards boxing for the cultural reasons you mentioned, which I respect.

Out of pure practicality, I would still encourage you to check out jiu-jitsu at some point. Knowing what to do on the ground, in a fight, against a guy that doesn't, is like manhandling a child. It's one the most valuable skills I have as a man and I'm sure Rio would agree to it's utility.

Post: #25

(06-23-2015 02:06 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Out of pure practicality, I would still encourage you to check out jiu-jitsu at some point. Knowing what to do on the ground, in a fight, against a guy that doesn't, is like manhandling a child. It's one the most valuable skills I have as a man and I'm sure Rio would agree to it's utility.

I partially agree, but it's the same like knowing what to do when standing (which boxing gives you) or knowing what to do when clinching (which wrestling or judo gives you, BJJ less these days as Rio mentioned).

Of course it's the best to know how to deal with all three scenarios, but training boxing he should be perfectly fine.