Post: #1

Hey guys--I had an interesting conversation with a few guys and wanted to get the board's wisdom. A friend showed me the following article w/ a study from guys at MIT and UChicago: http://bigthink.com/dollars-and-sex/do-w...-in-a-mate

Cliff notes
-When you use traditional methods like surveys (even if anonymous) that ask men and women what is most important to them when it comes to relationships we don't seem to get very accurate results. The problem with this approach is that people either lack self-awareness or tend to not to be very honest in their answers.

-Taking an econ perspective, the MIT and UChicago guys used actual empirical data from online dating sites to determine how important attractiveness/wealth are to each sex when looking for a mate.

-For men, there is no amount of income that a woman can earn if she is in the bottom 10% of looks to make her more appealing than a woman in the top 10%.

-For women though, if the man in the bottom ten percent in terms of looks earns more than $248,500, they will prefer him over the man in the top 10% of looks earning $60,000.

NOTE: I really don't want to get into a discussion about whether or not you need money to get women--I think most everyone would agree everything being equal, money is at least a factor and being rich helps, but not having money can be overcome.

From your experience, when does money start becoming an important factor for women in dating?

My experience: For most of the girls I knew in high school/college: it seemed to be a very small factor in attraction. My main theory is that the biggest attractor for women is "status" which I'd define as something like (your rep in your social circle + confidence + money). Note, especially, during high school/college, I think looks are a fairly important factor but I think it contributes heavily to both your place in your social circle and your confidence (so it is covered in the equation). I don't think money played much of a role in college because, for the most part, everyone seemed to be on the same level so to speak. In other words, few people could distinguish themselves on this basis and physiologically I think most girls weren't necessarily as attracted to "providers" as they might be as they age.

Post college (I'm 25), I've personally started noticing girls caring a lot more about money/what your job is. I'm not sure that its the most important "factor" in my equation above but its getting closer to be equal with the other two. I think this is for the obvious biological reasons that women start to think more about settling down around this age and are looking for "providers". My suspicion is that post 25-27, money become even more important of a factor in "game", if not the most important factor.

What say you?

Post: #2

(07-24-2015 09:59 PM)JudgeAV Wrote:  From your experience, when does money start becoming an important factor for women in dating?

Money becomes a bigger factor for women when the wall begins to approach mercilessly in the late 20s/early 30s.

But the caveat is that is only if you're playing the game from a provider role. If you make it clear early and often through sexualizing the interaction that you're not the bf/husbeta candidate, it won't matter much for a quick fling. You're either the wallet or the dildo. You don't wanna be the wallet anyway so if money is a thing that she's looking for, she's either on the husbeta market or you fucked up early in the process.

Also, the survey of women doesn't mean a damn thing. As the maxim dictates, "do not pay attention to what women say, pay attention to what they do." And they do broke asses all the time.

Post: #3

Whether a cute, petite, feminine girl lives in a bombed out rough part of Donetsk or a penthouse in the Upper East Side- I want to bang her just the same.

Women, not so much.

I'm not sure an MIT study needs to be done to find out that Men are not looking for a provider, and women are*. Or are things really that fucked up in the West now?


*after a certain age

Post: #4

Average chick start caring more about stock than cock after they start working in the real world. Bitches do not realize how tough shit is until she has to pay for her own furniture and apartment. Most of them bums still have their parents help out when possible.

But make no mistake, she still cares about cock.

She engages in the Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks strategy. So she holds out on dispensing pussy to Steve in Accounting, but will fuck the UPS guy she recognizes at the club. This isn't even some conscious pussy-stache twirling decision - this is just her biology at work.

But since this is a game board, what she wants is of little importance.

What do we want, is the only thing that matters.

WIA

Post: #5

Many western women want to have a lifestyle that affords certain pleasures (i.e. material), access (i.e. travel), and status. A top 10% guy in looks/personality making $60k a year can't really offer that. So while she might have fun with those guys in her youth she may not necessarily be seeking that in a long term companion.

Post: #6

Who needs money when you have a sense of humour- Tyrion Lannister.

Post: #7

(07-25-2015 07:36 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Many western women want to have a lifestyle that affords certain pleasures (i.e. material), access (i.e. travel), and status. A top 10% guy in looks/personality making $60k a year can't really offer that. So while she might have fun with those guys in her youth she may not necessarily be seeking that in a long term companion.

...so, she'll spend 25-31 assuming that she can do better and then we she's definitely crashed through the wall by 32, she'll "settle" for a beta earning 60K per year and turn him into a wage slave.

Moral: if you think you deserve a man earning 100K+ you'd better be a 9 with as sucky disposition or an 8 with a personality. Odds are you're a 7 at best and you're value is going to take a nose dive well before you settle.

Post: #8

I think the posts by Sudden and WestIndianArchie sum it up. Money gets more important when their parents stop providing for them and gets even more important when they are coming up on the wall but in either case...

(07-25-2015 06:30 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  She engages in the Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks strategy. So she holds out on dispensing pussy to Steve in Accounting, but will fuck the UPS guy she recognizes at the club. This isn't even some conscious pussy-stache twirling decision - this is just her biology at work.

I've been reading through the entire Tag the Sponsor thread. There is some great information throughout that thread especially the posts by Gringuito. Girls change their behavior when they think they have found big money. Most will play long game and pretend they are good girls. It's instinctive on their part. They are hardwired to seek security and status. If they do lock down a boyfriend with money, it goes to their head and the drama and entitlement follows soon afterward.

Also, a consensus in that thread was that guys with a lot of money but no game are in a precarious situation. The guy has no game but the girls who after that guy will have game so it can get dangerous. Money can help but it can also hurt if the guy has a lot more money than knowledge of women and how they play the game.

Post: #9

duplicate

Post: #10

@BC

Good points

It's important to make the distinction between fucking a guy with a new BMW 3 series, a used Porsche, a new Ferrari, and oil money.

Most chicks don't have the looks, personality, or social connections to get Ferrari guy, much less Sheikh Shitsalot.

But A normal chick will whore herself out for eyebrow raising money or a famous guy.

My boy is in LA with his girl that he took out there on vacation. The two of them are at a restaurant. Big name guy walks in the spot, glances at her, and a few minutes later she excuses herself to hit the ladies room. She is gone a little longer than usual.

Of course she found herself chatting with big name star.

For the nyc and LA players, or if you find yourself at clubs with ball players, you can get outgunned by.a dude with an unimaginable bankroll. It's more than the money though.

Still, the guys that don't have a notorious (keyword here is notorious, indicating fame not just money) bankroll will try and bottle service.his way into pussy, but a lot of those guys are pathetic (game wise, probably ice cold in their corner of the universe) and need gobs of cash to attract.

Who here doesn't think he could score more bitches at a club than Steve Ballmer or Larry Ellison?

But put them two in their element, where their power means shit, and it's a different story - even though we could be talking about the same girls.

And a chick that is motivated by money will bounce if dude loses it, or the next dude comes through with significantly more.

You guys probably don't watch trashy reality tv with female casts, but you're missing an opportunity to see how these famous bitches appeal to regular bitches.

WIA

Post: #11

(07-25-2015 12:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Most chicks don't have the looks, personality, or social connections to get Ferrari guy, much less Sheikh Shitsalot.

Post: #12

Most chicks don't want your money, but will want to be with you because you have money.

Let's put it this way. Many girls wouldn't date a chick who struggles to get money, but will date a girl that works as a doctor / business manager / high status position. You're not gonna want to take her money, you're gonna want her for the status.

Same goes for the big baller with a huge bankroll walking in the club.

Post: #13

This brings to issue a part of game that is often missed on here: hooking up with a high class woman to enter her social circle.

If you can understand that, and if you understand the nature of women, you are in a good place to understand that both ambition and a disappointment with her current lifestyle make money more important to a girl.

Post: #14

It's not just money, it's what that money DOES for you. If you're in a working class area high school, being the first guy in your circle to have a car is HUGE. You're now the first of her peers WITH A CAR! Even if it's a shitbox, you'll be courted by both women and guys. You tend to have the cool guys invite u to more parties when you are their best means of getting there. You can immediately bounce from a lame party to a cooler party with your whole crew (and whatever women leave with you).

Heck, with a small bankroll you can bounce out the lame party that is the US for a couple of weeks and be in a foreign country where you're a much bigger deal altogether.

Post: #15

I think that money matters.
However - it is not a "Catch All" thing.

It matters because it means you can "take care" of her.

Cases where it matters:
1. She is poor - So she wants a way out.
2. She is rich - She cannot "Downgrade" her social status.
3. Single mom with perception of "being poor" (meaning she thinks she needs it).
4. Gold digger
5. Believes money = happiness (Yes - there are those)

Post: #16

(07-25-2015 12:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @BC

Good points

It's important to make the distinction between fucking a guy with a new BMW 3 series, a used Porsche, a new Ferrari, and oil money.

Most chicks don't have the looks, personality, or social connections to get Ferrari guy, much less Sheikh Shitsalot.

But A normal chick will whore herself out for eyebrow raising money or a famous guy.

My boy is in LA with his girl that he took out there on vacation. The two of them are at a restaurant. Big name guy walks in the spot, glances at her, and a few minutes later she excuses herself to hit the ladies room. She is gone a little longer than usual.

Of course she found herself chatting with big name star.

For the nyc and LA players, or if you find yourself at clubs with ball players, you can get outgunned by.a dude with an unimaginable bankroll. It's more than the money though.

Still, the guys that don't have a notorious (keyword here is notorious, indicating fame not just money) bankroll will try and bottle service.his way into pussy, but a lot of those guys are pathetic (game wise, probably ice cold in their corner of the universe) and need gobs of cash to attract.

Who here doesn't think he could score more bitches at a club than Steve Ballmer or Larry Ellison?

But put them two in their element, where their power means shit, and it's a different story - even though we could be talking about the same girls.

And a chick that is motivated by money will bounce if dude loses it, or the next dude comes through with significantly more.

You guys probably don't watch trashy reality tv with female casts, but you're missing an opportunity to see how these famous bitches appeal to regular bitches.

WIA

Yeah there are a lot of variables. A guy might have the used Porsche and a high fiber diet but you still can't compare him to “Sheikh Shitsalot”. A girl is going to treat two equally wealthy guys much differently if one is an older business owner who she thinks she can get with long term versus a pro athlete that she knows she can only bang. In a lot of cases the girl's status, money, and age will also be factors.

So there are many variables but the main takeaway I got from the Tag The Sponsor thread is that you don't want to be the guy who has a lot more money than he has knowledge of how women operate. Those guys are at risk.

I had an LTR that went bad and in the process I obtained access to e-mail and facebook accounts. The girl wasn't with me only because I had a solid career but it was more of a factor than I ever thought. There wasn't any extreme gold digging but I found enough to make me realize that there might be problems if I stopped making more than most in our social circle. An interesting aspect of this was that she knew I wasn’t going to spend much of the money and she wasn't materialistic at all, but it was about signaling status to other people, mostly other women. Some girls show off their guy's job title just like they would do with an expensive handbag. It’s mostly about competition with other women.

Post: #17

(07-25-2015 03:19 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  An interesting aspect of this was that she knew I wasn’t going to spend much of the money and she wasn't materialistic at all, but it was about signaling status to other people, mostly other women. Some girls show off their guy's job title just like they would do with an expensive handbag. It’s mostly about competition with other women.

BC is coming wth the game!

Signaling is some real shit.
It's why conquering her social group is useful and important.

They can keep her honest
Or

they can sleep with you on the low

Or both

WIA

Post: #18

Locations are different, as are personal experiences, but in my personal experience, living where I live, money means very, very little in terms of attracting and converting women. It only does start to matter in the very late 20s and early 30s, no consolation really, and even at that not much. Women take much pride in being independent, in having their own high-paying jobs, and in avoiding the "gold-digger" stigma. However they have no shame in being height-diggers, looks-diggers, niche-diggers, "type"-diggers, and so on. I very much agree with Good Looking Loser's admonition to devote your 20s to improving your looks and your social freedom and using them to rack up notches. The oft-repeated phrase, "You can lose money chasing women, but you'll never lose women chasing money" just doesn't measure up in my opinion.

Post: #19

In my experience, money means nothing unless you are either looking for a serious long-term girlfriend or are competing with NBA stars for top-tier women.

I have increased my notch count so much more by simply traveling the world and learning how to present myself in a manner that is attractive to women. If I mention my job or something job-related to a woman, I have a completely different relationship with her.

As long as you aren't living in your parents basement, you will be able to get laid without being rich. Even still, the main hindrance will probably logistics if you are good-looking enough with reasonable game. If you want the trophy wife then I guess making a lot of money is a good prerequisite, but isn't this forum about how to avoid situations like that?

Post: #20

How much does money - or rather perhaps the items and status symbols they buy you - matter in your ability to bang women or get into STRs (but not aiming specifically to find an LTR candidate) as you get older?

There seems to be a fairly common saying around here that once you're in your mid 30s or older you "need to have your shit together". What that specifically means obviously varies from one person to the next, it's unlikely we're all going to be high earners after all, for one reason or another.
But I imagine it's also a matter of personal lifestyle choices. I've sometimes wondered if my lack of a car (generally somewhat less catastrophic here in Europe than it seems to be in the US) and that I actually dare to walk around primarily in jeans and fitted t-shirts (have a hint of a tough guy look with shaved head, stubble, in good shape though far from jacked) rather than a more "mature" and "age appropriate" style, might be working against me at my age. I have, not surprisingly, noticed some signs of that when I'm seeing women over 30 and I haven't had enough experience in the last few years with woman ten years younger or more to say anything conclusive about them.

Similarly with my lack of social status and career ambitions (personal freedom and freelance work, as little of the latter as I feel provides an acceptable lifestyle, have been of huge importance to me all my adult life). Traveling, having a modest but nice home and some money to spare on entertainment or other activities are the primary areas where I show (but definitely don't flaunt) my monetary capacity.

I'm still fairly positive that game and feeling comfortable with who I am is enough, but I wonder if there comes a turning point sometime after 40 or mid 40s where things become increasingly difficult if I can't or won't show myself at least partially in the provider role, even if I don't actually intend to play that role or get into a relationship.

Post: #21

Probably around Junior year of college.