Post: #1

I've discussed in great detail on this forum the rise of wealth and spending power in Asia, particularly China.

I'm obsessed with luxury goods consumption in Asia. I just saw this article on FT:

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/06...r-vietnam/

As an engineer with a background in maritime risk management, I am obsessed with yachts and the market for luxury transportation in Asia (helicopters, yachts, cruise ships, private planes).

I will eventually get into this niche somehow.

As developed countries continue to stagnate, you will see a rising middle and upper class in Asia, LatAm, and the Middle East begin to take a rising share of global spending power.

I want guys like us to be able to just show up and drive a niche in these areas as international entrepreneurs. I'm already working with some guys to explore different parts of this niche, including:

-Helicopters
-Green Yachts
-Luxury Tourism
-Fashion Tourism

So much potential everywhere, and it's all relationship driven. I love it!

Post: #2

Do you know any website where i can buy yachts or do you know about any country specialised in selling yachts for cheap?

Post: #3

I dont know about yachts specifically.

The big shipbuilding powers are Korea, China, Japan (less so lately), Vietnam.

India and Brazil are starting to build their capabilities, but not really up there yet.

In terms of really upscale specialized ships like luxury cruises, that would be countries like Norway. However, Korea has been aggressively buying shipyards in Europe and basically taking over that area.

China is still in the lower echelons, such as basic dry cargo bulk ships. Their supply chains are poorly developed but they will eventually undoubtedly take over Korea as top dog in this area, as Korea took over Japan and Japan took over the US.

I would imagine that Norway/UK/Finland are active in luxury yacht building. Not positive though.

Why, pitt, are you thinking of buying a yacht?

Post: #4

Cant afford it yet but i just wanted to look more into the industry, so knowing the prices would help.

Post: #5

YMG - I'm interested in the same things. Exports to China a growing at almost 30% a year. And they're thrifty! Luxury good items that the Chinese themselves can't manufacture are going to be, if not already, a hot hot commodity. It's just picking the right stocks.

Brazilian consumers will probably end up being more like Americans, but they're going to be buying their crap from China.

China's political goals are however, more suspicious. They are going for, if they have not already become, the largest shipbuilding nation in the world, which I believe is to support their strategic goal of becoming a serious naval power - this to insure the US will never be able to interrupt their supply chains and they're economy will not be vulnerable to a naval war.

They are fusing business and politics so the two go hand in hand. Hence the increased presence in Africa where they build businesses and side-step bureaucracy while Westerner's insist on sticking to the rule-books.

But... I reckon it'll be at least 20 years before Chinese government will feel truly comfortable with having their bluffs called. That is, if their middle class hasn't overthrown the regime in a revolution by that time - a real possibility. Just consider the fact that 30 million men are going to have to share pussy if they want to get some. Or they could go to africa and just buy that too.

Post: #6

Don't know whether it's still the same, but someone told me years ago that South Florida was the best place in the world to buy cheap yachts at auction. Apparently smugglers use them to ferry drugs from South America. If they're caught the yacht and other items used in the smuggling become the property of the Federal government, who auction them off.

Don't know what the cost of getting the yacht to China would be, but you could probably get a crew for a sailing vessel fairly easily. Some recreational sailors would just be happy to have a boat and a place to go to.

Post: #7

Paideia: Yeah, I"ve constantly been thinking of ways to exploit that demographic disaster. One thing that is happening is that Chinese dudes are marrying SE ASian chicks. THe AFrica thing is also already happening - that will be intersting to see, Chinese dudes marrying up African chicks. Are you in import/export?

Bad Hussar: Awesome, I was unaware of that but you can probably get some great prices. Something tells me though, that a Chinese/Viet guy who can afford to buy a yacht in the first place wants to buy it firsthand at full cost so that he can brag about it. It's all about face there.

Post: #8

Are you guys serious that Chinese guys are importing wives from Africa? I understand there's a major lack of women in China for the average chinese man but to go import African women, to be honest, that's the first time I hear that. On that note, given the lack of women in China, did you feel any hostility from Chinese men towards you when approaching Chinese women or when you were on a date with a Chinese women?

Post: #9

Well I look Chinese and speak Chinese so they can't tell the difference.

I'm sure the contempt is there but it's not like anyone is going to assalt you.

Don't worry about it.

Post: #10

I have never been to China, but my white buddies get laid like rock-stars. ESPECIALLY if they have dough. The Africa thing made sense... China's a growing presence in Africa, of course men will go there for pussy.

YMG - I'm in grad school, just finished my degree in Econ, gonna get into some more advanced shit now and take some heavy financing subjects.

I've worked in shipping 2 years - logistics, freight-forwarding, container shipping (was an analyst, bullshit title), and ship-broking. Fucking loved it. Sorry I had to go.

I expect to make my way playing the stock market for the long-term. Always down with sparring with experts and people who know their shit.

Post: #11

Ship broking is interesting stuff that I've always peeked at but never really took seriously. Do you feel that, with the right connections, you could make it as a broker in Asia in this field?

Post: #12

Shipbrokers are all over - I've been out of the industry 4 years, and a lot of stuff changes in 4 years - but I think London is still the real hub - simply the centre of world.

A lot of ship-broking houses in CPH, Norway I would expect as well, seeing how substantial part of the world shipping fleet is from these countries.

Then there is HKG and SGH and Singapore.

To get into a house you need to know someone, for sure - I´d say it's 70%. Or you start from the ground up as a trainee. That takes 2-3 years, I would expect.

Post: #13

The high number of men compared to women in China definitely is a great opportunity for PUAs and bride agencies.

Post: #14

(06-14-2011 04:00 PM)Paideia Wrote:  Shipbrokers are all over - I've been out of the industry 4 years, and a lot of stuff changes in 4 years - but I think London is still the real hub - simply the centre of world.

A lot of ship-broking houses in CPH, Norway I would expect as well, seeing how substantial part of the world shipping fleet is from these countries.

Then there is HKG and SGH and Singapore.

To get into a house you need to know someone, for sure - I´d say it's 70%. Or you start from the ground up as a trainee. That takes 2-3 years, I would expect.

I smell potential for a career hacking product. Where are you based, my friend?

Post: #15

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-..._news_stmp

Chinese consumer and art.

Post: #16

Bump.

A buddy of mine left a SICK position with the US embassy in Beijing to go work with the world's top luxury goods and private art dealer in Hong Kong. This is someone I highly respect (Yale grad, American, fluent in Mandarin) who I often turn to in order to get intel on Asia.....and I already consider myself an expert in the region in a variety of ways.

The fact that he did this was stunning to me. Moving from a high level position in the embassy and being at the power center of China to becoming an art and luxury goods broker in Hong Kong.....I think it's pretty obvious what's going on.

I can't help thinking that if a (White) guy is well groomed and well spoken with a bachelors and a degree of salesmanship, he can break into the luxury goods game in Asia.

There is really no better place I can think of for luxury goods to explode. Asians are notoriously vain, status-driven, competitive, and increasingly wealthy - for everything western.

Post: #17

(11-17-2011 10:04 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  There is really no better place I can think of for luxury goods to explode. Asians are notoriously vain, status-driven, competitive, and increasingly wealthy - for everything western.

I really like this idea. I've wanted to get into retailing luxury goods for a while now. I even have a website/backend built for this purpose already. The only problem was I didn't think it would do that well back in the states.

Looks like Asia offers the perfect opportunity.

As a side note: YMG, do you speak Cantonese, Mandarin or both? I've been learning Cantonese, primarily because Hong Kong is a major business area and seems like it could have amazing potential (especially in the luxury goods field)... but Mandarin is more widely spoken and might provide more opportunities. Thoughts?

Post: #18

YMG are chinese people deeply into fashion as much as the japanese?

Post: #19

(11-17-2011 10:22 PM)pitt Wrote:  YMG are chinese people deeply into fashion as much as the japanese?

Korea is much more fashion obsessed than either China or Japan, IMO.
I actually found China to be kind of dull in terms of style.

----

Here's a good article that examines the market for luxury goods in China: http://www.kpmg.com.cn/en/virtual_librar..._brand.pdf

I would recommend breaking into cosmetics and perfume. In China, due to heavy pollution, you'll see a lot of Chinese women with terrible skin. Combine that with a tendency to buy luxury goods and you have an excellent business opportunity.

Post: #20

THE TWO OPPORTUNITIES


The first reason why this is an opportunity in China is that they are woefully unstylish and unsophisticated and desperately want to be viewed as such. China has a strange combination of inferiority and superiority complex at the same time.

Where ever there exists vanity, jealousy, and competition for irrational and emotional reasons, there are millions of dollars to be made.

Plastic surgery, fashion, high-end automotives, jewelry, cosmetics......all multi-billion dollar industries that are entirely fueled by the vanity of the common man and woman to feel superior among their compatriots. Irrational buying decisions leads to the ability to mark up prices by over 2000%.

A fucking gucci handbag for thousands of dollars? Insane. Yet somehow it makes perfect sense to the Chinese housewife, Mrs. Li, who needs to prove that her and her newlywed husband have "arrived" in the new capitalist China. That status is priceless. The look of jealousy from Mrs. Wang, whose husband can't yet afford that, is priceless to the newlywed wife who can get it. She will beg, scold, nag, and withhold sex until her husband gives in and buys her what she wants. That's what happens in a country in which there are 44 million more men than women.

How many middle class housewives are there in China? Is there a limit to their vanity and jealous competition with other women? Will her husband ever want to stop pleasing her? You do the math....

That's how you charge thousands of dollars for a piece of shit bag.

In Korea/Japan/HK, you would be at the end of the wave. Those places are saturated and the populations are 1/30th and 1/10th the size of China's respectively.

In China you would be pulling your surfboard onto the tsunami just as it is starting to form. Always look at big global macro trends that are moving in the right direction. Then find your niche/place within that trend and kill it.

I chose tech+environment/energy and we'll see how I fare. My friends in Asia tend to be in infrastructure/energy (thriving) or social media and tech (thriving).

The Korean, Japanese, and Hong Kong consumer already has a strongly developed palate and the markets have been saturated with companies vying for their attention. Hong Kong should be viewed more as a platform for brokering these goods in and out of China.

SECOND REASON

The surge in mainland Chinese purchasing priceless works of art, wine, and luxury goods is considered by them to not just be mindless consumption, status, and vanity - people in China are investing in luxury goods as actual forms of financial security.

They are doing this because they deeply mistrust the financial system in their country and, so far, the only "trustworthy" vehicle of investment in their minds has been real estate, which is rapidly becoming a bad bet.

Chinese elites are doing everything they can to move their assets offshore and get second citizenships elsewhere.




The Asian/Chinese luxury markets:

Is the product based on an irrational and emotional desire to be perceived as having higher social status?

Is the product or item a non-traditional asset? Pu'er tea, wine, art, are all investment items that are not used for showing off as much as a ferrari or gucci bag would be. Yet they will most likely continue to increase in value over time.





Opportunities to profit off of the irrational and jealous whims of Chinese housewives multiply as they are seized.




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Post: #21

November - I speak Mandarin well but am not good at reading or writing. My listening comprehension could be better too.

This is with two years of combined studies and I"m still not at the level where I need to be. Fortunately, I've found an area in which I will not need it.

If you are going to learn Mandarin, make sure it's because you're dedicated to China and will be there for a while. Otherwise, don't make the effort.

Post: #22

(11-17-2011 10:04 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  A buddy of mine left a SICK position with the US embassy in Beijing to go work with the world's top luxury goods and private art dealer in Hong Kong. This is someone I highly respect (Yale grad, American, fluent in Mandarin) who I often turn to in order to get intel on Asia.....and I already consider myself an expert in the region in a variety of ways.

That smells like doctors and engineers leaving their professions to become real estate agents during the property bubble.

Was he being paid well or being paid entry level standard federal government wages?

Post: #23

That's a good question - I don't know what his exact salary was. He wasn't exactly entry level as he had been working there continuously since graduation and he's 28 now. I assume his pay was good for a relatively young expat in Beijing.

Money talks, huh?

Post: #24

how would you get into these fields? what would you be doing? would it be business? designing yachts?

Post: #25

(11-18-2011 03:11 AM)theoogabear Wrote:  how would you get into these fields? what would you be doing? would it be business? designing yachts?

I would say your best bet is retail.