Post: #1

I just nearly finished a master's degree (completed all the coursework but not the thesis because my advisor is an asshole) and have some experience using C++. I've also used R and Python for personal projects that are related to machine learning and one was part of kaggle. I want to be able to work abroad ASAP

I know there's several options: teach English, teach math/science at an international school, work for a US company for several years and then transfer to the overseas office, becoming a consultant, and freelancing. Since I don't want to spend another few years in the US, I thinking freelancing may be the way to go

I've already looked into odesk/Upwork and see that most of the listings are for web developers using Javascript/HTML/CSS/PHP, but I have nearly no experience using those. The few C++ listings I've seen seem pretty difficult and I'd be unable to do it since I have just basic/intermediate programming experience. And since I have no work experience, I have no idea how I can find clients. I read that its best to start off doing free work for nonprofits. But is there anything good for beginners with C++ knowledge?

Do you guys recommend the freelancer route to be able to work independently ASAP? If so, am I better off learning web dev stuff like PHP or just focus on getting better at C++?

Post: #2

(09-08-2015 04:29 PM)boss13 Wrote:  I just nearly finished a master's degree (completed all the coursework but not the thesis because my advisor is an asshole) and have some experience using C++. I've also used R and Python for personal projects that are related to machine learning and one was part of kaggle. I want to be able to work abroad ASAP

I know there's several options: teach English, teach math/science at an international school, work for a US company for several years and then transfer to the overseas office, becoming a consultant, and freelancing. Since I don't want to spend another few years in the US, I thinking freelancing may be the way to go

I've already looked into odesk/Upwork and see that most of the listings are for web developers using Javascript/HTML/CSS/PHP, but I have nearly no experience using those. The few C++ listings I've seen seem pretty difficult and I'd be unable to do it since I have just basic/intermediate programming experience. And since I have no work experience, I have no idea how I can find clients. I read that its best to start off doing free work for nonprofits. But is there anything good for beginners with C++ knowledge?

Do you guys recommend the freelancer route to be able to work independently ASAP? If so, am I better off learning web dev stuff like PHP or just focus on getting better at C++?

Where in the US are you based at the moment? And why exactly do you want to get out of the States?

Post: #3

There are many employers that will allow telecommuting; however, you said you only have basic/intermediate experience, so I am not sure that will be enough to land you a job where you'll be able to move around freely.

I'm trying to do writing at the moment. Why don't you try that?

Post: #4

What is your Masters in? Are you planning to finish it? Maybe consider completing the thesis in combination with some type of "entry level" work overseas.
I agree that it would be tough to get a telecommuting gig w/out much experience. I also think that until you get the formal Master's degree, you don't have a Masters.. as far as most any co would see it.

Post: #5

My 2 cents: stay in the states. You'll make a lot more money with your skillset if you are even moderately capable at what you say you can do. And after a few years in corporate land, go overseas or have built up a big enough client list and skills that you can work remotely.

It would be a shame for someone with C++/R/Python experience to be doing marginally better than an English teacher when plenty of opportunities exist in finance and tech.

Post: #6

The most forward thinking companies that pay well and let you work remote usually use newer more mobile focused technologies.

IoS, Android, Node.js, Javascript Front End, NoSQL (MongoDB, CouchDB, Redis) I believe are those type of technologies.

https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/76-vi...uted-teams

If I wanted to be as flexible and in demand anywhere in the world (remotely) as possible I would be an IoS / Node.js developer.

Post: #7

(09-08-2015 05:57 PM)jj90 Wrote:  My 2 cents: stay in the states. You'll make a lot more money with your skillset if you are even moderately capable at what you say you can do. And after a few years in corporate land, go overseas or have built up a big enough client list and skills that you can work remotely.

It would be a shame for someone with C++/R/Python experience to be doing marginally better than an English teacher when plenty of opportunities exist in finance and tech.

Money is not the concern and I'm not willing to work 60+ hours/wk for many finance and tech companies. I don't want to work for a boss and want the freedom to work on my own,whenever I want and wherever. Even if I should work in the US first, how can I just go overseas after a few years? I've heard its becoming much less common to get expat packages to work overseas

Post: #8

Quote:Money is not the concern and I'm not willing to work 60+ hours/wk for many finance and tech companies. I don't want to work for a boss and want the freedom to work on my own,whenever I want and wherever. Even if I should work in the US first, how can I just go overseas after a few years? I've heard its becoming much less common to get expat packages to work overseas

Sounds like you want a lot and not willing to put in the effort. Look, no one is going to pay you as a freelancer when they can get someone else with actual experience. I can't imagine you getting enough work to keep yourself alive while overseas.

Since you don't want to put in the time, I suggest you stick with teaching English or something along that line.

Post: #9

Get a full time job in the US first, then see if you can either get transferred abroad or find a similar gig with a different company or work as a freelancer.

Post: #10

You're young enough to sacrifice a few years in building skills and experience that people would be willing to pay you for your remote work.

But you have to be willing to make that sacrifice.

Post: #11

wfh.io
weworkremotely.com
authenticjobs.com | remote option
stack exchange careers | check remote only

There are some companies willing to hire people not solely based on past work experience, rarer yes but they are out there. You will find orgs that are remote-culture focused tend to think outside the box a bit with regards to talent acquisition. Just keep on honing your skills, add new ones and try to adapt to the market needs. Do some small projects on your own to show your competency, give people something to look at. There are tons of programming opportunities out there and there are lots of orgs embracing working remotely who don't care where you are living. Bank some coin and experience, then look at your options.

Post: #12

You can always advance your advance your C++ skills further. It is a well guarded programming language few people know how to use. It is one of the few languages that gives you the power to squeeze a lot of power out of the hardware.

However, if you know C++, you should be able to pick up Javascript/HTML/CSS/PHP in a snap. I would guess 6 months.

Post: #13

(09-08-2015 08:10 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Get a full time job in the US first, then see if you can either get transferred abroad or find a similar gig with a different company or work as a freelancer.

but I've heard expat packages are declining and even if I could get transferred abroad, it would take at least several years of working with the same company. I'd rather not wait that long to go abroad

(09-08-2015 08:35 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  You're young enough to sacrifice a few years in building skills and experience that people would be willing to pay you for your remote work.

But you have to be willing to make that sacrifice.

(09-08-2015 09:45 PM)mack10 Wrote:  wfh.io
weworkremotely.com
authenticjobs.com | remote option
stack exchange careers | check remote only

There are some companies willing to hire people not solely based on past work experience, rarer yes but they are out there. You will find orgs that are remote-culture focused tend to think outside the box a bit with regards to talent acquisition. Just keep on honing your skills, add new ones and try to adapt to the market needs. Do some small projects on your own to show your competency, give people something to look at. There are tons of programming opportunities out there and there are lots of orgs embracing working remotely who don't care where you are living. Bank some coin and experience, then look at your options.

oh yeah, I forgot about remote jobs. I thought it would be hard for entry-level candidates to get them, since we need in-person mentoring. Since I figure it would be much tougher to get an entry-level remote job than a non-remote one, would I still have to get several years experience before I would be taken seriously for remote roles?

(09-08-2015 10:39 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  You can always advance your advance your C++ skills further. It is a well guarded programming language few people know how to use. It is one of the few languages that gives you the power to squeeze a lot of power out of the hardware.

However, if you know C++, you should be able to pick up Javascript/HTML/CSS/PHP in a snap. I would guess 6 months.

But I've seen few C++ freelancing opportunities (and not even that many jobs, other than in finance), and the ones I have seen seem to require someone with alot more experience than what I currently have

Post: #14

You could calculate the exact time to run up to the landing gear of a departing jet and hide there until it lands. Probably need a vehicle of some sort actually.

Just bring an oxygen tank and cold weather clothing.

Just having a little fun not trying to be a total prick. Just a partial one

Best of luck OP hope you can find a way out. Like many of us.

Post: #15

(09-08-2015 06:51 PM)boss13 Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 05:57 PM)jj90 Wrote:  My 2 cents: stay in the states. You'll make a lot more money with your skillset if you are even moderately capable at what you say you can do. And after a few years in corporate land, go overseas or have built up a big enough client list and skills that you can work remotely.

It would be a shame for someone with C++/R/Python experience to be doing marginally better than an English teacher when plenty of opportunities exist in finance and tech.

Money is not the concern and I'm not willing to work 60+ hours/wk for many finance and tech companies. I don't want to work for a boss and want the freedom to work on my own,whenever I want and wherever. Even if I should work in the US first, how can I just go overseas after a few years? I've heard its becoming much less common to get expat packages to work overseas

You don't have to work in tech or finance, let alone work 60 hours a week. I work in IT and have NEVER worked that much. At best, 35 hours realistically 25. There are many many industries that would love a programmer like yourself who have offices abroad. I answer IMs and emails all day however but homework doesn't really count.

Though, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but what your looking for is going to take some hunting.

You should look for jobs where the teams are spread all across the US. IT in any industry especially one that is spread across the entire country is where you will get your feet wet. Focus on the "glamour" industries (entertainment, fashion, etc). The work is easier and the pay is on par with other major industries.

Try to find something where your boss is based in California and you live in New York or some random city.

I didn't see any mention of work experience. Have you worked part time in any programming or IT related work? Do you have any current or on going funzsies projects?

To get relocated abroad you're going to have to position yourself to work on projects that have a world wide focus. Easier said than done. I don't have any advice on this.

Finally, contrary to others say work smarter not harder. I've normally found that people who claim 50-60+ hours a week are actually just playing automatrons. Meaning they could make their work load significantly easier by automating, using specialized tools, delegating, and the like. Don't shy away from the "hard" industries, especially if you have a knack for doing what I said above. These people tend to be tech illiterate hence why they're working so long.

Finish your thesis so you can get the piece of paper you've thrown money down for and start applying for jobs. Get some experience if you have none. Work for a few years and clean up your finances. Then see if you can get a package abroad.

Post: #16

(09-08-2015 11:12 PM)boss13 Wrote:  oh yeah, I forgot about remote jobs. I thought it would be hard for entry-level candidates to get them, since we need in-person mentoring. Since I figure it would be much tougher to get an entry-level remote job than a non-remote one, would I still have to get several years experience before I would be taken seriously for remote roles?

Check the listings... I have seen more than a few recently that were entry level oriented. Obviously prior experience is nice but it's not always the determining factor, so don't let it get you down. Profile the companies that look interesting and don't be afraid to reach out to them to discuss future opportunities or what they look for in their employees. Get your LinkedIn game up to speed if not already.

As mentioned, show that you actually have some marketable skills by doing some mini projects or getting your feet wet with other tech (check out Codecademy for some fun basic stuff)

There are also lots of tech-oriented customer service type jobs which I wouldn't turn my nose up at as a way to get in the door, especially if the company has projects you are interested working in longer term, or they see you as someone who has a bright future.

To me, working remote is liking making an extra $20-30k per year, you just get paid in flexibility and time savings. No bullsh*t commuting, less bullsh*t office politics, less drain on your wallet overall if you aren't in a bigger city that is hungry for your hard earned dollars.

This is a moot point if you aren't a 'self-starter', 'manager of one', and require constant hand holding, etc.

What you want takes some outside the box thinking and going out on a limb. Start hustling and see what happens.

I worked full time for 7 years before I made the move to full-remote, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It can definitely be done in a shorter time frame though, if that is your primary objective.

Post: #17

To alleviate concerns, mack10 is my security/IT guy. I'll get him another admin account that doesn't post so people don't get worried.

Post: #18

You've got the wrong perspective.

Stop thinking about "working for other people".

You have programming skills, so start making your own programs and sell them via the internet. Work for yourself.

The genius in doing this is you can build up passive income streams from each program you make.

Post: #19

If you want to get out of the US fast, this is the fastest way to get out of the US. Basically, this guy just worked and the lack of opportunities in his time actually gave him opportunities. Of course, this guy's work ethic and willingness to do anything toward his goal are his ultimate skills, whereas it sounds like you're looking for something easy and fast.

Post: #20

Quote:I worked full time for 7 years before I made the move to full-remote, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It can definitely be done in a shorter time frame though, if that is your primary objective.

How long do you think it would be a good time to make that transition? I'm been in the industry for about a year and I'm looking to transition into a full-time remote position in a year or two.[/quote]

Post: #21

Teach English overseas and then transition while your over there. I know a few guys that did that. Came to Japan as English teachers and wound up doing something else (IT/ networking) while they got the language skills down.

This is the fastest and easiest route.

Post: #22

Why would programmers want to get out of the US anyway? Any developer worth his salt will make way more in US than anywhere else

I would live in the US myself if it wasn't for being an H-1B slave for god knows how long.

Post: #23

Because the US sucks? That money's also going to get eaten up living in the places that pay well, i.e. SF or NYC. Why wouldn't you rather negotiate a remote job with US wages, live in SEA/FSR, save a shit ton of money, and invest?

Post: #24

OP: The best thing to boost your programming skills is to actually use them on a real project. A real project can be one where someone is paying you to do something for them, in your case an entry level position or an idea that you have that you want to bring to fruition. Personally I would start looking into mobile development with iOS and Android, iOS uses Objective-C and Android uses Java both are not that different from C++. If you're able to create an app that makes money, it will sell world wide and it won't matter where you are.

Post: #25

Thoughts:

-Freelance/contract development - web dev, mobile dev
-Telecommute job, again likely using the above skills
-Work in an english-speaking environment in a company in western europe - UK, Sweden, Germany, France, Netherlands (Europe has better working hours + vacation, although lower salaries than the USA).

Requires more business skills, e.g. sales/marketing

-Start a web dev agency
-Specialized remote consulting e.g. "I build your trading algorithms" or "I build your data science model"
-Creating your own app(s), creating a SaaS service


Btw ALL of these things will be accelerated with even just one year of experience as a developer in the USA. Otherwise you're hitting the ground with pretty much zero commercial velocity.