Post: #1

Just wondering if anyone else has a body part (or parts) that tend to recover slower than the rest, and if its an issue with training fast twitch fibers or not. For me, I can barely walk or run two-three days after squatting and deadlifting. Recently put them together on the same day so that I can squeeze in a circuit leg workout before I do them again the following week.

For forearms I do a lot of fencing in complement to weightlifting, and they're very sore mostly by the wrist tip of the flexors/extensors near the hand and at the elbow bone on the inside (forget if its called golfers or tennis elbow). Because we 'grip' every time we lift weights the forearms are secondarily used, any advice for faster recovery? I was thinking of going to get a massage once a week and start taking glutamine and BCAA's.

I cook a lot of meat eggs and veggies which is why I don't really take supplements. Well hell maybe I don't know what I'm doing but this is just a trend I've noticed over the past year. I'd like to hear what some of you think.

Post: #2

The main things are the basics. Whey protein no more then 30 mins after workouts the quicker the better. Dont mix it with milk, just water and whey protein. Buy a car polisher, they are 20 bucks at most car parts stores, there are videos on youtube on how to use them as a massager, they are more powerful than any massager you can buy in stores. Long hot showers or hot tub sessions. No Ibuprofen or Alieve or any anti-inflammatory drugs. 500mg of aspirin no more then once a week is it. Once the muscles are nourished and recovering at around the 18 hour mark I start passive dehydration to pull the water out of my muscles. Basically I dont drink any fluids that day and do no workouts and only get the water that is in food(no fruits) some veggies are ok, meat is ok. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. For the worst cases of DOMS(delayed onset muscle soreness) if I dont have relief after 3 days and its really bad 5mg of codeine will work just dont be stupid and make a habit out of it, no more then once every 4 months. Learning how to cope with pain is good thing, to a certain extent.

Post: #3

Rest and nutrition.

I've been training for half my life and still can't walk the day after the day after leg days.

No pain no gain

Post: #4

What exactly are you doing in your leg workout?

It might be a simple case of you doing too much volume too soon. Reduce it until your recovery capacity catches up, then build up the volume sloooowly.

Don't blow your load every workout, keep some in the tank.

Post: #5

See this post in the Injury Prevention and Recovery Thread concerning collagen supplementation. It worked miracles for my leg pain and post-workout recovery.

And I'd second the use of BCAAs during training, especially if you're lifting while fasted. Having a few amino acids in the bloodstream prevents the body from cannibalizing existing muscle tissue.

Post: #6

Thanks, I can deal with the pain, but regardless of that, I'm trying to diametrically increase my forum and thigh size so that I can handle larger weights eventually. Thats why I want those two body parts to recover faster, everything else is good to go after 2 days, except forearms and thighs. I have noticed that 10 minutes of intense bicycling cardio the day after squats/deads can help loosen up the lactic acid that may still be in the legs, and easy the recovery until you're ready to squat again.

I do a standard 8 sets of 8 for front squats, nothing too heavy, I don't do back squats anymore since I stopped powerlifting heavy.

Post: #7

(09-14-2015 12:26 AM)barnbarn2k Wrote:  The main things are the basics. Whey protein no more then 30 mins after workouts the quicker the better. Dont mix it with milk, just water and whey protein. Buy a car polisher, they are 20 bucks at most car parts stores, there are videos on youtube on how to use them as a massager, they are more powerful than any massager you can buy in stores. Long hot showers or hot tub sessions. No Ibuprofen or Alieve or any anti-inflammatory drugs. 500mg of aspirin no more then once a week is it. Once the muscles are nourished and recovering at around the 18 hour mark I start passive dehydration to pull the water out of my muscles. Basically I dont drink any fluids that day and do no workouts and only get the water that is in food(no fruits) some veggies are ok, meat is ok. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. For the worst cases of DOMS(delayed onset muscle soreness) if I dont have relief after 3 days and its really bad 5mg of codeine will work just dont be stupid and make a habit out of it, no more then once every 4 months. Learning how to cope with pain is good thing, to a certain extent.

Can you comment on why you recommend that whey protein not be consumed with milk. When I use whey I always mix with milk since I am inevitably trying to up the calorie level.

Post: #8

30g of a high quality whey isolate is what works best 30 mins or less after exercise. The whey is fast absorbing and readily used to start the repair and rebuilding of muscles. Milk has casein in it which is a slow digesting protein. For recovery a person does not want anything getting in the way of that 30grams of whey protein.

Post: #9

So no milk then? Interesting idea, I used to do that, but what about milk and protein before bed? To enact the slow digesting enzymes and recover during sleep

Post: #10

(09-14-2015 08:07 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  So no milk then? Interesting idea, I used to do that, but what about milk and protein before bed? To enact the slow digesting enzymes and recover during sleep

That is fine, the main thing is that the whey and the water get into the system fast and uninhibited after workout.

Post: #11

CrashBangWallop is right. To a degree you will always have to deal with some level of recovery if you push yourself hard enough. That is just a fact of weightlifting.

With that said I have been taking Curcumin supplements twice-a-day and eating ground Turmeric Root with some of my meals. Since I started this April/May I have seen a notable effect on reducing overall inflammation and the speeding up of my recovery time to the point where I am a big believer in it's effectiveness. Just make sure you get a Curcumin supplement with bioperine (black pepper) or just eat foods with ground black pepper, as it improves absorption.

It seems to be backed by science also (scientific study links within this article): http://flowathletics.com/curcumin-turmeric-athletes/

Quote:Benefits to Athletes of Curcumin and Turmeric Curcumin Is A Natural Anti-Inflammatory

Inflammation isn’t always a red bump or swelling in a localized area. To put it simply inflammation is a natural defense of your body – it helps the body to heal naturally. The symptoms of that are swelling, redness and … inflammation of the area. This is most certainly OK and almost necessary when you have an injury that requires rest and recovery.

Inflammation (especially in athletes) is often mild, but enough to hold us back and negatively affect our training process. Being sore after a heavy workout is a form of inflammation, but even a relatively mild injury is a cause for concern. Specifically inflammation has a nasty side effect known as “secondary muscle damage” [3], the very thing that causes you to feel sore after a workout. [4]

Inflammation is part of the body’s immune response. At first, it’s beneficial when tissues need care and protection. But, in chronic cases, inflammation can cause further inflammation; it can become self-perpetuating. More inflammation is created in response to the existing inflammation.

For many athletes the issue of inflammation is never resolved, it’s an ongoing struggle. Piling up on top of each other are little injuries, followed by waves of inflammation, which cause more and more damage overtime. Acute inflammation is OK, chronic inflammation is a serious problem.

Curcumin, just might contain the answer. Let’s take a look at what the research says.

First of all, curcumin is more potent than some anti-inflammatory drugs1[5], and I prefer to opt in the favor of natural vs. synthetic if the race is even close. Although the process isn’t yet well understood, the general consensus is that curcumin actually inhibits inflammation at the molecular level.

Here’s a possible, if not yet fully tested, explanation:

It seems that curcumin can bl1ock NF-kB, a molecule that travels into the nuclei of cells and turns on genes related to inflammation. [6], [7], [8]

But Curcumin doesn’t just prevent damage from chronic inflammation, it helps you to actually recover from and undo the damage.

Curcumin Helps Damaged Muscles Recover Faster

While the anti-inflammatory and protective properties of curcumin are pretty impressive, is it possible that this plant chemical can also promote and speed up the healing of a damaged tissue? Do you acquire wolverine-like powers if you eat a pound of curcumin? No. Can curcumin help athletes recover from slightly damaged muscles? One animal study suggests it can. It was found that mice treated with the optimal dose [20 microgram/kg/day] showed muscle recovery after 4 days that untreated mice only obtained after 20 days. So curcumin sped up muscle recovery by a factor of five.

Recovery is an important cycle in your training regiment. Simply “not working out” is not an efficient way to restore what you’ve lost during a grueling practice. Although taking time off is important, underutilizing your time off (especially if you are a competitive athlete) is often overlooked. Get plenty of sleep, drink plenty of water and eat well is all sound advice.

Combine it with improved muscle recovery and increased anti-oxidative activity and you have a real edge over the average recovery method.

Post: #12

I can't speak much for forearms, but for legs I like to do the following:

Take pre-workout as usual leg day, but add a few L-Arganaine pills..

Whey protein right after workout, shower, keep hot (firm believer in value of cold showers, but I want to keep as much blood in the legs as I can for a few hours afterwards on legday).

Get home (I shower at the gym, places are fuckin gross), eat 1-2 small dark chocolate hersey's while heating up food (slams the insulin, opens the muscles - think meat lockers) then eat RED meat if possible. A steak, or Salmon (a lot if Salmon), along with a half cup of oatmeal (keeps the muscles open and hydrated for 2-4 hours). Plus some greens for absorption.. nutriceuticals.

After that, I take an anti-inflammatory for knees (mine are shot), so 1-2 Aleve or preferably 2-4 Cissus Pills (au naturale). A few hours later, 1-2 heaping teaspoons of free form L-Glutamine (amt. dependant on how hard I lifted .. how heavy I went), and hour or two after that, 25-50 grams of Casein Protein to feed at night.

Light stretch time permitting before bed.

Next AM 12+ OZ water, 50g whey protein, then breakfast.. etc.

Over next 2-5 days, as you should be sore if you hit 'em hard, judiciously eat plenty of many different types of protein to maximize Amino Acids profile, and L-Glutamine here and there. And mad stretching.

The Glutamine I didn't bother with as much, unless I was hitting legs twice a week. Eventually if you hit legs twice a week, they will begin to recovery faster on their own naturally. In fact, I've always considered body-building, and power lifting to be a bottom up growth. Like a tree grows from it's trunk, you put on big leg strength and muscle, comparatively, the mental ambiguity to overcome heavy upper body lifts comes naturally. I don't lift legs that hard anymore, but a few years ago

Oh yea, re. forearms.. the hand bent back stretch (great for carpal tunnel as well), but ease into doing that one slowly, and massage pin pointed striations in your forearms with your hands, deep, to the bone. << Had to do that after an arm wrestling injury, it helped a lot. It will hurt, but working out those stringy knots is crucial for cooked forearms in the long term.

Post: #13

(09-14-2015 12:48 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  I do a standard 8 sets of 8 for front squats, nothing too heavy

There's nothing standard about 8x8 for front squats.

What was your training history for legs before this program?

What do you do on other days?

Before you get all complicated with supplements and recovery, Id look at why exactly you're doing 8x8 front squats. Throwing a random high volume into a program just because you think you need the pump in some muscle group isn't a great way to go about it, and your body is letting you know.

Post: #14

(09-16-2015 10:17 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 12:48 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  I do a standard 8 sets of 8 for front squats, nothing too heavy

There's nothing standard about 8x8 for front squats.

What was your training history for legs before this program?

What do you do on other days?

Before you get all complicated with supplements and recovery, Id look at why exactly you're doing 8x8 front squats. Throwing a random high volume into a program just because you think you need the pump in some muscle group isn't a great way to go about it, and your body is letting you know.

For that specific exercise, which is both a great targeter and connector of the legs as a complete system, that would be a lot of knee-focused joint stress.. especially if you're adding in other leg lifts same day.

Post: #15

Post: #16

Thanks, that massage really works. Have you tried the ArmAid tool?

Post: #17

^ I didn't post the ArmAid video since I haven't tried it myself, but Antranik is usually reliable source of knowledge and I've heard others recommend it as well.

Post: #18

# If you mean deadlift as a back workout then don't do squats and deadlifts on the same day. Even when you don't lift heavy [or to failure]. Try to have 2 days of complete rest between deadlift and squat workout.

# Stretch after every workout

# Rest/sleep more if possible