Post: #1

You ever have a particularly bad notch experience that prompts you to sit down and introspect a bit? I just did.

I'm not talking about giving in to chick emotional thinking or lapsing back to betatude. I'm talking about seeing your game work as it's designed to do and achieve the desired end result, but wind up making you feel regretful, or downright bad for yourself and/or the woman.

I just banged a 5. I have banged her a couple times over the past 3 weeks or so. I'm obviously not proud of it but it is what it is. She ended up catching feelings for me so I had to cut her loose tonight. I didn't intend to hard next her, but she was drunk and emotional and left me little choice.

I genuinely felt bad. I could have just jerked off and gone to bed early and let her fade away sparing both of us heartache and headache. It was enough to make me think "am I wasting time and effort spinning plates I have no intention of sticking with for anything beyond fucking?" Even more so - "is this just contributing more to my inability to connect with a woman and her inability to connect with man?"

I don't know maybe I'm talking out my ass but once in a while I have a bad bang that makes me question myself and my intentions with women. I think it's healthy to question yourself which is why I embrace it and don't forget about it and move on. Anyone else fond themselves in thisnboat once in a while?

Post: #2

Yes!

Sometimes I feel I'm seeing things from a chick's perspective: why they don't want to sleep with a guy that seems like he'll get too attached. Confessional: I'm a guy and I get freaked out by chicks sometimes. Even though I'm bigger and stronger, I still don't want to have to deal with a crazy in love chick on my front door step.

A friend of mine will sleep with every and anything, including married chicks. I will not. I don't want the baggage. Like you OP, I would rather jerk off and sleep peacefully.

A bang is great, but sometimes there's a price.

Post: #3

If she's a 5 and you're not into her then keep it to one bang only. Don't message her again. Its 10x easier to cut someone off after the first bang than multiple bangs after. Don't let it drag.

Post: #4

There is that, and then one ones where the chicks seem to be way too attached after you bang. Like the one I had from last weekend, I assume I met her in a club. Was visitin from out of the city, and after I left I got a text from my SMS a chat application and she called. What sort of stuff did I do to have that sort of attachment from a one nighter.

As far as having a chick be lower on the 1-10 scale. Everyone has those at some point, and some times guys use that to break a dry spell. But, yeah I can say the times I have I felt a bit disgusted with myself, if not motivated to do better from there.

Post: #5

(09-18-2015 02:36 AM)WanderingMan Wrote:  Like you OP, I would rather jerk off and sleep peacefully.

A bang is great, but sometimes there's a price.

The introspection of this thread is good, but I think its necessary to be able to sleep with any and all women and still sleep peacefully at night.

There's a price for everything, but make the chick pay it, not you. You dont have to pay for anything, literally and figuratively.

If the chick is married and still sleep with you, she's more the villain, not you.

I used to have huge beta remorse when using game on seemingly nice chicks. Then I realize something: you are not responsible for the emotional well being of a chick you slept with. Your LTR sure, but otherwise people are fucking adult, they need to grow up and put a lid on it.

Girls have absolutely no qualm about manipulating and friendzoning innocent betas, why should we think twice of doing the same to them?

Dont feel bad. That crying emotional girl will just find a beta orbiter to torture soon.

Post: #6

(09-18-2015 03:56 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 02:36 AM)WanderingMan Wrote:  Like you OP, I would rather jerk off and sleep peacefully.

A bang is great, but sometimes there's a price.

The introspection of this thread is good, but I think its necessary to be able to sleep with any and all women and still sleep peacefully at night.

There's a price for everything, but make the chick pay it, not you. You dont have to pay for anything, literally and figuratively.

If the chick is married and still sleep with you, she's more the villain, not you.

I used to have huge beta remorse when using game on seemingly nice chicks. Then I realize something: you are not responsible for the emotional well being of a chick you slept with. Your LTR sure, but otherwise people are fucking adult, they need to grow up and put a lid on it.

Girls have absolutely no qualm about manipulating and friendzoning innocent betas, why should we think twice of doing the same to them?

Dont feel bad. That crying emotional girl will just find a beta orbiter to torture soon.

I understand what you're saying here. And that's one position. When I was younger, I felt that way, without even thinking about it or trying to understand/rationalize, that's just the way I thought. Not saying it was wrong or right. Now, I'd rather stay away from the "lower quality"(not necessarily talking about looks). Sure, if I'm hard up and-or I've had the right amount of booze.....whatever. It happens. But I like to be able to be selective, even when I don't have an 8 or 9 to go home to. I don't have to get laid, like I once did. Therefore, if I see red flags poppin up, I can walk away and be fine with it.

Post: #7

I think this is completely normal. I felt the same way not too long ago. You hit a cold streak for a little and even a 5 looks acceptable to fuck. Sometimes it takes only 1 fuck to hit the "what the fuck am I doing moment" , other times it might take 3 weeks like in your case. At first, I would feel disgusted in my self, like I just literally fucked a land whale. You just have to move on and keep your mental focos for what kind of girl you want to fuck.

Frankly, these moments when i was younger are what got me outta betaland and then finding the forum. Even though she might be nicer then others...you can always do better then that 5 american girl. Always.

Post: #8

It sounds like you're confusing remorse with regret. I've only fucked a 5 twice. Once when I was young and thirsty, then once again when I was trying to hit a notch quota that I set for myself. Both times I felt like taking a bleach shower afterwards. As a strict rule I refuse to fuck anything under a 6. It's just not worth the mental anguish.

Post: #9

Some you don't feel bad about though:


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f7d_1426890957

Post: #10

Stalin read this thread and shiver:

What's the most busted lizard you ever poked?

Post: #11

(09-18-2015 03:56 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 02:36 AM)WanderingMan Wrote:  Like you OP, I would rather jerk off and sleep peacefully.

A bang is great, but sometimes there's a price.

The introspection of this thread is good, but I think its necessary to be able to sleep with any and all women and still sleep peacefully at night.

There's a price for everything, but make the chick pay it, not you. You dont have to pay for anything, literally and figuratively.

If the chick is married and still sleep with you, she's more the villain, not you.

I used to have huge beta remorse when using game on seemingly nice chicks. Then I realize something: you are not responsible for the emotional well being of a chick you slept with. Your LTR sure, but otherwise people are fucking adult, they need to grow up and put a lid on it.

Girls have absolutely no qualm about manipulating and friendzoning innocent betas, why should we think twice of doing the same to them?

Dont feel bad. That crying emotional girl will just find a beta orbiter to torture soon.

This is very true. Last year I had a mini relationship with an attractive girl. She became very attached and I didn't like it. When she tried to run a pregnancy scare on me, I dumped her.

After sending me dozens of messages, and calling me on my phone dozens of times (none of which I answered), she came to my place knocking on my door. I didn't want a scene in front of my neighbors so I let her in. Long story short, she begged me to get her back and cried a lot. I didn't back down and told her to leave. Before leaving she dropped this:

"Now I understand the feelings of all the men begging me and crying in front of me."

This girl had zero sympathy for the men she probably used and dumped, but when she was confronted with a similar situation, she expected sympathy for herself.

Post: #12

General Stalin, a few things to say about this.

First, one of the gravest truths about life is that there are two kinds of men: men that have scruples and men that have none. And it is far easier for the proverbial tiger to change his stripes than for a man to change from one of these categories to the other. One must know what category one belongs to, and accept this. Very obviously, anyone who writes a post like yours is a man who has scruples -- so you should recognize this fact about yourself, and take it into consideration in what you do.

Second, women, canny animals that they are, will always sense the kind of man you are -- which of the two categories you belong to. And a woman will know better than to be hurt by anything that a man without scruples does, because she takes his antics for granted. But she can be hurt by a man with scruples if he lets her down, because she senses that he could have known better.

The upshot of this is that, all things considered, it is best for a man with scruples such as yourself to avoid getting involved with women that are unattractive, or that you are not particularly attracted to. First, because even if it might seem tempting for a benighted moment, you will never really enjoy the fucking; and second, because of exactly what you described in the OP: you can hurt these women, in a small but real way, and because you have scruples both she and you will feel bad as a result. So it's just in no way worth it.

Of course, none of this applies to women that are hot and sexually desirable; they are essentially the most powerful creatures in the world, and for the vast majority of men it is impossible to really hurt them. So you can fuck the hotter sluts without ever having to regret it (at least not for this particular reason) and you'll enjoy it infinitely more. It takes more effort, but it's really the way to go if you're of the scrupling kind -- as, indeed, most men are, have always been and will always be.

Post: #13

(09-18-2015 06:48 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  General Stalin, a few things to say about this.

First, one of the gravest truths about life is that there are two kinds of men: men that have scruples and men that have none. And it is far easier for the proverbial tiger to change his stripes than for a man to change from one of these categories to the other. One must know what category one belongs to, and accept this. Very obviously, anyone who writes a post like yours is a man who has scruples -- so you should recognize this fact about yourself, and take it into consideration in what you do.

Second, women, canny animals that they are, will always sense the kind of man you are -- which of the two categories you belong to. And a woman will know better than to be hurt by anything that a man without scruples does, because she takes his antics for granted. But she can be hurt by a man with scruples if he lets her down, because she senses that he could have known better.

The upshot of this is that, all things considered, it is best for a man with scruples such as yourself to avoid getting involved with women that are unattractive, or that you are not particularly attracted to. First, because even if it might seem tempting for a benighted moment, you will never really enjoy the fucking; and second, because of exactly what you described in the OP: you can hurt these women, in a small but real way, and because you have scruples both she and you will feel bad as a result. So it's just in no way worth it.

Of course, none of this applies to women that are hot and sexually desirable; they are essentially the most powerful creatures in the world, and for the vast majority of men it is impossible to really hurt them. So you can fuck the hotter sluts without ever having to regret it (at least not for this particular reason) and you'll enjoy it infinitely more. It takes more effort, but it's really the way to go if you're of the scrupling kind -- as, indeed, most men are, have always been and will always be.

So true.

Post: #14

Good stuff in this thread guys. This is going the direction I had hoped.

I want it to be known my feelings of doubt don't stem from the fact that I porked a 5'er. It's whatever I'm not really in a drought of any kind. I've been cycling 4 other women in and out of my bed over the past couple months ranging from 6/10-8/10, 19-33, African-Laotian-white, Applebee's bus girl - college educatied professional working for the government. Some I bang for a couple months then it fizzles out naturally, some come back after some time away, once in a while its just a one or two night hello/goodbye deal. I'm diversifying this shit like no tomorrow.

I'm just talking about the sobering realization post-bang that perhaps I'm not getting what I really want out of the game. Perhaps Oz was onto something about men of doubt and men of certainty, but perhaps it could be worded differently.

Maybe there are men who are comfortable, and men who question. Men who go for just what they want and are satisfied, and men who get what they want then want more.

Shit maybe I'm just at my next hurdle of the game where I am struggling with quantity vs. quality and diminishing returns.

Post: #15

Even after learning game, I still surprise myself banging low-level girls. This notch was done 1 month ago:

- 32 y.o.
- Double single mom
- Chubby (BMI around 29)
- A 4/10 in my book
- Lives on parents' weekly allowance
- Uses teenager language when speaking
- Can't cook nor massage

I have no idea why this happened. As much as I tried to take a totally objective look, I couldn't find any single reason why someone would date her.

Post: #16

I've ran into this issue as well. A while ago I decided fuck it, no more dumpster diving below 5's. Then things got more difficult and I got pickier. No crazy bitches, no single moms, no sluts. Now I only like top notch women 7+ Good personality but problem is I want to keep them longer. So now I'm in constant mini relationships which I don't mind, but it doesn't really give me the feeling of being free and do whatever the fuck I want feel.
I get one of the biggest rushes pulling top notch women. Sometimes I feel like a gotdamn mastermind pulling a Rube Goldberg.

So to answer your original question, yes I introspect a lot when I fuck a fatty or below average. It seems like I'm cheating myself. Like when I go eat fast food or Pizza for breakfast.

Post: #17

I don't recall ever feeling bad about any of my sexual relationships generally. Particular incidents with each woman where either of us was not on our best and noble behavior, yes, but such is life generally and it doesn't really have to do with game or choices we've made in our philosophy on women.

I think that I'm an outlier here though as I believe that I try to form a genuine, emotional connection with each woman whom I bang, and end things on a positive, friendly note always. This is done as much for me as for the woman. It makes me feel better about myself and I get to walk away with the hope that I've not done any damage - because in my mind it definitely damages a girl to have a lot of empty sexual encounters.

Post: #18

It's called growing up. I am starting to have the same feelings. I could have banged a 6 today but just couldn't be fucked for it it just doesn't interest me.

This Roosh video from last week strikes a chord.

Post: #19

(09-18-2015 03:15 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Some you don't feel bad about though:


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f7d_1426890957

Still WB repeatedly (I have a thing for blonde girl with that shrieky voice) but with a fake name, at her place and then ghost in the middle of the night

Post: #20

I can relate to your post in a lot of ways, a couple years ago I was banging a 5 for a while, and I didn't exactly feel awesome about it. I basically ended a long dry spell with her and then caught some momentum banging 2 other cuter girls the next 2 weeks in a row. The other two were a pretty hot part Asian brunette who was just a slut that wanted to fuck that night, and a curly haired brunette 6.5 who was rebounding from just getting dumped by her long term boyfriend and also was a ONS. With the other two girls out the picture the only pot that was simmering was the 5 who wanted to fuck again.

Basically I got sucked into it because she was cool, gave full cooperation, no attitude, and it was easy. She'd come over after work a few times a week, we'd smoke weed, and she'd give good head till I was aroused enough to bang her. After a while though I started questioning myself and my game kind of like the OP, like "is this the best I can do?", and "why am I continuing to see her, when I don't really like her?"

Like General Stalin the chick caught feelings for me and wanted me to be her boyfriend, although she never overtly said that it was basically heavily implied, so she said it in so many words. I knew the name of the game, I wasn't going to lead her on, so I let her know from the get go that I was just looking for a friend with benefits and nothing serious. As time wore on I kind of felt like all I was eating was fast food as far as having sex with her, in the sense that fast food is a quick fix that satisfies you for the moment, but afterwards you feel kind of disgusted both physically from the crap food, but also mentally because you know how bad it is.

Fucking her was like eating fast food, I was getting sick of it, and I needed to upgrade my sexual diet. Right now I'm back in the mist of a really bad dry spell again, honestly I'm not trying to do the math and add up how long it's been, because it's one of the worst ones I've had in years. Part of me just wants to lower my standards and "pick some low hanging fruit" just to end the dry spell, but another part of me just can't bring myself to bang anything lower than a 6, unless she's got some redeeming characteristic like a nice round but, big tits, or something to give me a boner. The last chick I messed around with (but didn't bang) was some masculine earthy hippy chick type from Alaska I'd rate a 6 and my dick wasn't getting hard fingering her, I had to watch porn with her in order to get a hard on.

The last chick I banged was a solid 8 and probably one of the top 5 in terms of looks for me, so though it's been a while it's hard to want to downgrade to something lower just to get laid. From experience though "dumpster diving" has it's time and place, what I didn't understand with Stalin is that he's saying he was banging other chicks, one of which was an 8. I guess some guys just like variety, or have a crazier sex drive, but banging a 5 doesn't even cross my mind if I'm smashing a girl a couple points or higher. Not sure what his deal is, but I know a lot of guys want to rack up those notches until they hit a certain point where they stop giving a fuck and either want a higher caliber chick or a deeper connection, which is basically where I'm at. I think it's only natural for a guy to see out those things as he gets older especially deep into his thirties and forties.

Post: #21

Roosh actually just made a blog post similar to what has been on my mind:

http://www.rooshv.com/junk-food-sex

Recently I had a 19 year old 8/10 as a plate, but I did not care about her and wanted her to leave after we banged almost every time. I did not enjoy her company and felt bad as she kept wanting to go "out" on actual dates with me instead of just coming over late at night and banging after finishing a netflix movie with me that I was watching when she showed up.

It's like I'm tired of banging random girls I don't care about simply for the sake of banging, but I hate getting attached to a girl too.

Post: #22

(09-28-2015 10:02 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  It's like I'm tired of banging random girls I don't care about simply for the sake of banging, but I hate getting attached to a girl too.

There is a happy medium.

IME, it's all about how the "relationship" begins. If you bring her home from some bar after meeting her during last call, and you blow her out, then she leaves before you wake up. Then, the most it's ever going to be is a FB - an extension of a ONS. However, if you, let's say, meet a few times, 'get to know each other' somewhat, then bang. Then, there will be more to the relationship than just sex.

It's actually rather simple.

With these latter types, you can go have fun with them: go have drinks, go to the movies, have a nice walk downtown, take them to the beach, etc, then you can bang them, and it's all good. They're not your GF, and they're not just an FB, they're somewhere in the middle. Though, the hardest part of all this is keeping them in the middle, once the groundwork is layed, it can be smooth sailing for the most part. A lot of times, you or her, will try to upgrade this relationship, one of you will start to get "feelings" for the other one, while the other person is perfectly content where things are at. And that is how these types of relationships go kablooey. The easiest way to keep these types of relationships on the straight and narrow is to simply not treat them like a gf. Be up front from the beginning: "I'm not looking for anything serious", and don't text them everyday, don't feed them with fluff, don't get lovey dovey when you're together. You can cuddle and shit, but don't go to the next level of cuddling. Then, when she leaves, go on with the rest of your life - until you see her again, whenever that may be. Keep things simple. When you're with her, it's almost as if she's your GF, you can have the "GFE", and she can have the "BFE", but you two are not officially together, or exclusive, but you have fun and enjoy each other's company, and not just the sex part. You get a lot of the benefits of having a GF, and less of the draw backs.

Post: #23

(09-28-2015 04:19 PM)WanderingMan Wrote:  With these latter types, you can go have fun with them: go have drinks, go to the movies, have a nice walk downtown, take them to the beach, etc, then you can bang them, and it's all good.

Therein lies the paradox. Call me cynical, jaded, misguided, whatever but finding women who have the attention span to hang out multiple times without banging and still answer your text/calls and then finally bang are the proverbial unicorns in my book.

I say this with absolute honesty. I wish with every fiber in my being that the man/woman dynamic of going out a few times, making incremental progress each time only for it to culminate in the glorious bang followed by some flavor of relationship was still around but at least where I am in SoCal it's just not the case. "Relationships" are simply single or occasionally two dates that either end in sex or not. My experience has gotten so bad that when I see couples with women who are my exact physical type I want to go right up and ask the guy "dude, how in the hell did you get more than two dates out of this girl?"

I'm speculating that the only way to develop any kind of semblance of a relationship deeper than a ONS or FB is through meeting by social circle, work etc.

Post: #24

(09-28-2015 04:34 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 04:19 PM)WanderingMan Wrote:  With these latter types, you can go have fun with them: go have drinks, go to the movies, have a nice walk downtown, take them to the beach, etc, then you can bang them, and it's all good.

Therein lies the paradox. Call me cynical, jaded, misguided, whatever but finding women who have the attention span to hang out multiple times without banging and still answer your text/calls and then finally bang are the proverbial unicorns in my book.

I understand, and I feel it's the Man's job to the lead the way in the relationship. Have you ever had a chick say: "maybe we should wait"? Though, when she says this, you know you could reach into your back o tricks and get the bang? Then, when you do bang her, afterwards she disappears? I'm all for FB's, ONS's and all that, but I feel, there is a time to wait on the lay. I agree there should always be an escalation, as well as the man should always be a man - trying to get into the panties. However, the man can still hold back at times, and not go for the full court press or suicide blitz. There's a time to let it develop more naturally. Get her tingling, but let her marinate by thinking about you. Then when the bang comes, afterwards you'll still have something to say and talk about, other than: "what's your name again?".

Post: #25

I'm coming from a darker, more cold and scornful place than that.

I've grown to dread the feeling of growing any sort of attachment to a woman because I know they will let me down. I now affiliate intimacy with disappointment. Love with rejection. Adoration with resent.

I hate treating women like meat, but I hate it more that most of them love it and/or deserve it.