Post: #1

Hi guys, not sure if this is the place to ask so apologies if it is.

Basically, I'm 20 years old, born, raised and living in a shithole in East London.

As you probably already know, London is hell for an average guy and I see loads of threads talking about how they lived in so and so places. How did you guys afford to live in places like Poland? Do you guys just save up and move there for a while until you return back to London?

I work as an Accounts Payable clerk for a company in central London and it's really chill. The people there are great and it's very relaxed.

I make £20k a year which is just under £1.4K a month after taxes. The company is also offering to pay for my studies to become a chartered accountant which would push my salary up to £40K in around 5 years time. Now £40K at 25 years old is not bad at all, but still not good enough to enjoy the fruits of London. It is also not really advisable to live in London after 30 years of age so I'm at an impasse.

I want to enjoy London when I'm young but it is basically impossible for me.

I should also note I live in a council house (raised by single mum) and don't really pay anything besides utility bills. I still have saved no money since I started working 8 months ago. London really drains my wallet every time I'm out.

In terms of chicks, I do very bad here, I'm still a virgin for Christs sake which is mix of my short height, aesthetics (working on this), poor game, anxiety and the general state of women here in London.

I'm having a terrible time here but I really want to know how I can maximise my time here until I move when I'm 30ish.

Or should I move earlier to another country? I've got no idea but I'm really not enjoying myself here.

Post: #2

London has endless good talent. Get out there. Don't buy too many drinks and you shouldn't break the bank.

£40k a year in London isn't great as you say. Move to Manchester. Very affordable.

Post: #3

I'm on 20K right now mate. I think I may just take weekend trips to EE whenever I can until my game improves as it is easier there apparently.

Post: #4

(11-01-2015 05:05 PM)BambiNotForLong Wrote:  In terms of chicks, I do very bad here, I'm still a virgin for Christs sake which is mix of my short height, aesthetics (working on this), poor game, anxiety and the general state of women here in London.

I'm having a terrible time here but I really want to know how I can maximise my time here until I move when I'm 30ish.

Or should I move earlier to another country? I've got no idea but I'm really not enjoying myself here.

(11-01-2015 05:47 PM)BambiNotForLong Wrote:  I'm on 20K right now mate. I think I may just take weekend trips to EE whenever I can until my game improves as it is easier there apparently.

It´s not easier there.
If you can´t get laid in London, you won´t get laid in EE either.

Better save some money and go on a trip to the Philippines as soon as possible. Lose that V card, get it out of your system, so you have one problem less to worry about. A few notches under your belt will do wonders for your confidence.

Post: #5

London does have lots of talent, but the place also has plenty of drawbacks.

Here's my advice based on living in East London (Zone 3) for 18 months:

1. Don't go out in Central London. Yes, that's where the hottest and most available women are, but your current logistics will cockblock you hard. Pulling back to your place will be via an expensive taxi/uber or a vibe-killing nightbus. If you get numbers there's a good chance the girl will live half way across London, meaning the day-2 will likely be another trek into central London to encounter the same logistical problems.
Also, Central London is bloody expensive. 8 quid for a pint? Do me a favour!

2. Find the best pockets of nightlife within a mile or so of your house. When I lived in Southeast London I would hit up Greenwich, Blackheath, Lewisham, Bexleyheath and so on...all within striking distance of my flat. While you won't find the megaclubs and craziness of central London, your chances of a same night pull will be vastly improved. The chances of any numbers you collected coming to fruition will also be much higher.

3. If you want to stay in London and live a good life, you'll need more money than £20k. If you enjoy your work and are interested in becoming a chartered accountant that can certainly be lucrative. However it's hard work and 5 years is a big commitment (and a long time 'til you're earning decent money). Could you leverage the experience you have to apply for higher paying jobs right now?

4. If you can get to the £25-27k mark you could afford to get a flatshare in somewhere like Zone 3. This would solve what is probably your biggest cockblock - your current living arrangements.

5. If you are set on accountancy but not tied to London, definitely look for similar opportunities in other major UK cities. Your quality of life would be far superior in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow for example. You could get a decent shared flat not too far from the centre and enjoy regular nights out. Pulling girls would also be a heck of a lot easier when you're only a £10 taxi ride from your flat.

6. You ask about guys living a life of travel. A lot of guys fund that lifestyle by freelancing their services online. I've not heard of anyone freelancing accounting skills but I'm sure it's possible. I met one RVF'er who is a trained lawyer and offers legal services online for good money. Alternatively you could learn and develop other marketable skills, such as writing and web design. How do you learn those? Google it. We're lucky now to be of a generation where you can learn to do pretty much anything for free online. The world's your oyster, young man.

Post: #6

(11-01-2015 05:56 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 05:05 PM)BambiNotForLong Wrote:  In terms of chicks, I do very bad here, I'm still a virgin for Christs sake which is mix of my short height, aesthetics (working on this), poor game, anxiety and the general state of women here in London.

I'm having a terrible time here but I really want to know how I can maximise my time here until I move when I'm 30ish.

Or should I move earlier to another country? I've got no idea but I'm really not enjoying myself here.

(11-01-2015 05:47 PM)BambiNotForLong Wrote:  I'm on 20K right now mate. I think I may just take weekend trips to EE whenever I can until my game improves as it is easier there apparently.

It´s not easier there.
If you can´t get laid in London, you won´t get laid in EE either.

Better save some money and go on a trip to the Philippines as soon as possible. Lose that V card, get it out of your system, so you have one problem less to worry about. A few notches under your belt will do wonders for your confidence.

I don't agree with this. It will definitely be easier in Eastern Europe. Mainly because of your gaming bankroll.

I lived in London for a good while and on top of the company paid town house in Zone 1 I spent around 4 times that of your monthly after tax and I got results sure but they werent perfect, most importantly they were nowhere near what I would get with that kind of bankroll in let's say Thailand or Philippines. Considering the fact that (central) London is too expensive for hard working British people and is therefore mostly populated by the following two kinds of crowd;

1- Arab oil sheikhs, Indian outsourcing business owners, expat CEOs.. etc looking to throw money around, and
2- Slutty Eastern European girls who want to save their asses by becoming a mistress to someone of Group 1.

You can't really go straight into Group 2 when the Knightsbridge/Belgravia crowd can tear you apart with their bankroll alone (not to mention the designer clothes, Italian sports cars, rock solid careers and of course the confidence that comes from all this) The path for you to follow seems to be (a) fix your confidence issues, then (b) master "the grind" and network as much as you can with group 1 and look for opportunities for a high salary career or better yet your own business. Your business doesn't have to be the next big thing, it doesn't even have to be something mainstream, I know a guy that everyone who had met him has asked "where did you find this dork" He scored a gig in which he contracts fabricators and tradesmen in Turkey for cheap to build propellers then sells them to a European boat engine manufacturer. That dork makes seven figures.

I kind of understand the moving to Manchester idea but you'd be severely limiting your grinding pool. London is filled with opportunities that people who can barely speak English (but has mastered the grind) can grab and completely 180 degree shift their lives. You have much better chances because you're playing the home game as a London native.

I don't think you should try Eastern Europe before you fix your confidence issues because even though the income levels are lower it's not some magical place where women bend over at the airport waiting for you, you'll need good game there too. (Especially when you're competing with half the senior RVF crowd) Neither should you try SEA.

Lastly, I know pay for play isn't taken well here but something I have to recommend; prostitutes. There was a time when I was stagnating badly and I felt like the whole world was coming over me, I tried to fix it with alcohol, drugs, different friends, the gym, I even got a shrink but at the end prostitutes were what helped me get through it. By fucking quality pussy repeatedly, your mind subconsciously realizes that women aren't an entirely different species that you should be putting on a pedestal and other people around you aren't really any different from you. That was what shifted my game (both the pickup game and the grind game) up several gears. Don't go 20 quid a pop in Soho make sure you go for one who's at least 100-150 quid.

I'd say start working out, do the Stronglifts 5x5 program. The squats will really help with your stance and you'll notice it in as soon as a week. Wait until the test increase really hits you, spend 300 and get a quality escort for your first time (no Romanian they're so in it for the money that you'll hate it) keep your cool, pop the cherry, have a good time. You'll see for yourself that things will change after that.

PS. Here's a good Wall Street Playboys article about how many times the median income you should have to pull what level of pussy. http://wallstreetplayboys.com/personal-f...nd-dating/
I'm not affiliated, it's not clickbait and I think a good portion of RVFers already know about Wall Street Playboys and how good a blog it is.

Post: #7

East London completely sucks.

I have moved to east London 7 years ago, thankfully I have been out of the country most of the time during those years and every time I am here, I just think to myself ''east sucks, I hate this place''. I used to live in South London and it was way better, hotter women, easier women and the vibe there in general is just way better.

I tell you what, anybody who thinks that if you are not killing in one place, then you won't kill in any other place, to me they are full of shit. Try go to Nottingham, Leeds, Newcastle or Norwich for a weekend and you will see how much easier women are out there. Every time I go to one of these places,I simply destroy it, I did numbers there in a week that I wouldn't do in other places (not even DR).

If women is the most important thing in your life right now,move outside of London, you don't need to go to eastern Europe, just go to other English cities, hit the clubs, approach lots of girls during the day. If you are not a weirdo, you should have no problems getting laid, seriously, it can't get easier than those places, I doubt Eastern Europe is easier than that.

One more thing, getting laid is over rated. Once you start banging lots of girls it won't be as life changing as you may think. I am glad I invested all my 20's in getting laid so now I understand that women ain't shit. But you have to see it for yourself.

Post: #8

Do you like accounting?
I havent seen many people interested in that area.
taking 5 years to reach 40k isn't bad, but that is also a long time and you have to think about it, especially living there for 5 years with something between 20-40k. Good thing is you got rent covered so should be able to save slowly.

Post: #9

(11-01-2015 05:05 PM)BambiNotForLong Wrote:  Hi guys, not sure if this is the place to ask so apologies if it is.

Basically, I'm 20 years old, born, raised and living in a shithole in East London.

As you probably already know, London is hell for an average guy and I see loads of threads talking about how they lived in so and so places. How did you guys afford to live in places like Poland? Do you guys just save up and move there for a while until you return back to London?

I work as an Accounts Payable clerk for a company in central London and it's really chill. The people there are great and it's very relaxed.

I make £20k a year which is just under £1.4K a month after taxes. The company is also offering to pay for my studies to become a chartered accountant which would push my salary up to £40K in around 5 years time. Now £40K at 25 years old is not bad at all, but still not good enough to enjoy the fruits of London. It is also not really advisable to live in London after 30 years of age so I'm at an impasse.

I want to enjoy London when I'm young but it is basically impossible for me.

I should also note I live in a council house (raised by single mum) and don't really pay anything besides utility bills. I still have saved no money since I started working 8 months ago. London really drains my wallet every time I'm out.

In terms of chicks, I do very bad here, I'm still a virgin for Christs sake which is mix of my short height, aesthetics (working on this), poor game, anxiety and the general state of women here in London.

I'm having a terrible time here but I really want to know how I can maximise my time here until I move when I'm 30ish.

Or should I move earlier to another country? I've got no idea but I'm really not enjoying myself here.

Your problem(s) sound like one of velocity which will only eat and feed off of each other. As someone who loathes mega cities,yeah get the fuck out of London ,go to another city in the UK or even apply for jobs in Western Europe where women are more tolerable (not as much as EE but way more than US/UK) more livability and lower living costs. Try to solve the virginity thing as fast as you can,then get the fuck out of dodge. Unless you plan on a long holiday or earning western wages somehow ,living in Poland earning Zloties isn't worth it. Women are important but not everything,hence all the Polish guys leaving their women back home working in London!

Post: #10

(11-01-2015 06:15 PM)potential1 Wrote:  London does have lots of talent, but the place also has plenty of drawbacks.

Here's my advice based on living in East London (Zone 3) for 18 months:

1. Don't go out in Central London. Yes, that's where the hottest and most available women are, but your current logistics will cockblock you hard. Pulling back to your place will be via an expensive taxi/uber or a vibe-killing nightbus. If you get numbers there's a good chance the girl will live half way across London, meaning the day-2 will likely be another trek into central London to encounter the same logistical problems.
Also, Central London is bloody expensive. 8 quid for a pint? Do me a favour!

2. Find the best pockets of nightlife within a mile or so of your house. When I lived in Southeast London I would hit up Greenwich, Blackheath, Lewisham, Bexleyheath and so on...all within striking distance of my flat. While you won't find the megaclubs and craziness of central London, your chances of a same night pull will be vastly improved. The chances of any numbers you collected coming to fruition will also be much higher.

3. If you want to stay in London and live a good life, you'll need more money than £20k. If you enjoy your work and are interested in becoming a chartered accountant that can certainly be lucrative. However it's hard work and 5 years is a big commitment (and a long time 'til you're earning decent money). Could you leverage the experience you have to apply for higher paying jobs right now?

4. If you can get to the £25-27k mark you could afford to get a flatshare in somewhere like Zone 3. This would solve what is probably your biggest cockblock - your current living arrangements.

5. If you are set on accountancy but not tied to London, definitely look for similar opportunities in other major UK cities. Your quality of life would be far superior in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow for example. You could get a decent shared flat not too far from the centre and enjoy regular nights out. Pulling girls would also be a heck of a lot easier when you're only a £10 taxi ride from your flat.

6. You ask about guys living a life of travel. A lot of guys fund that lifestyle by freelancing their services online. I've not heard of anyone freelancing accounting skills but I'm sure it's possible. I met one RVF'er who is a trained lawyer and offers legal services online for good money. Alternatively you could learn and develop other marketable skills, such as writing and web design. How do you learn those? Google it. We're lucky now to be of a generation where you can learn to do pretty much anything for free online. The world's your oyster, young man.

This is a great post.

If you're set on the UK, another city might be better. It will be a cool experience if you haven't lived outside London anyway. Even some of the smaller southern cities are really nice and a fair bit cheaper than London. Plenty of gaming options even in 2-300k person city.

And the midlands is really good value.

You're so young, it might be a waste to grind things out for that salary in London. if you're not looking at a decent raise any time soon.

That said if you can get to £25-30k soon then you can flatshare somewhere more central, then you're in the game. Plenty of options in London... all you need is game, a serviceable,clean place to pull and decent logistics. Don't be fooled by the image everyone projects - only a few people are really living it up. I've seen all sorts of guys have the time of their life there, and only a fraction were enabled by their bankroll.

Screw "not living in London after 30", where did you get that idea. You can live anywhere at any age. Girls dont give a shit if you have a few more wrinkles... I was just in London recently and do better in my 30's than I ever did in my 20s. I was a clueless kid back then, now I'm an operator, lol.

As long as you're in the gym and not drinking yourself to death every weekend you're good to go for decades yet.

Post: #11

Move out a bit further and commute in rail links, night buses are good and be cheaper to live.

Post: #12

Your suffering from a sever lack of inner game . So much so that even if you were to change locations tomorrow , you still would not be successful .

The reality of the situation is that :

- We are both in the same field and in similar places in our careers . ( I'm a accounts assistant )

- You make more than me ( I make 15k , you make 20k )

- Your younger than me ( I'm 22 , your 20 ) .

- And we both live in the same city .

We're both in a very similar situation regarding our stats yet I am getting more bangs than you because I believe in creating my own oppertunities .

I don't have the disposable income to hit the clubs in Shoreditch and Oxford street to play the game . So guess what I do ? I approach girls on the tube , on my way to the grocery stores , on my way to the gym .

I just banged a girl last night that I met at Stratford tube station on my way to work literally a week ago .

You say you work in central , if that's true you must see tonnes of high quality pussy just on your way to work alone .

Take advantage of it .

I don't have the disposable income to take girl to fancy dates and pay for drinks etc etc .

There's tonnes of ways you can avoid that . One thing I've come to realise about the game is that you can really bend things to your reality .
For the Stratford girl , I told her to meet me at a station close to me , we went to sainsburys and got a cider each . Then I suggested we go to my House since it was only a couple minutes away . That bang probably cost me £10 in total .

I'm not saying this to brag or boast . I'm saying this to make you realise that the whole " I don't have enough money argument " doesn't really hold its own , and I suspect that you using it is a reflection of some deeper issues with your inner game .

And until you fix that , even if you were to move into the most promising poosy paradises of Eastern Europe I doubt you would be successful .

You don't have to go to expensive clubs to meet high quality pussy and you don't have to go on expensive dates to bang them .

I met this 9 at Highbury & Islington station a couple weeks ago . She just got here from Belgium and she already has investment bankers paying for her weekly oyster card travel and taking her to expensive restaurants . And she choosing to tell me this when she's hanging out with me in my £390 closet room in a flat that I share with 3 other people .

By the way , I'm not a player by any means , I just approach a lot and we are in a game where the more you play the more you win .

In any case , we're in the same city so if you need someone to daygame with , drop me a PM .

Post: #13

40k at 25yo is decent, even in London. Your main problem is that you're a young virgin living with his mum who is terrible with women. Over time and with guidance you can put that behind you and enjoy the city, any city.

Post: #14

Definitely don't need money to bang, London or anywhere else. Just be good at day game.

Be well dressed (Good quality brands make a difference, and are worth the investment), and learn to be happy, carefree, confident and just start chatting to every cute girl you see.

Post: #15

^Great posts by Sensei & trawler about the non-issue of wealth in pulling. In the long run, it's good for you - it forces you to dial the fundamentals of attraction without relying on an external crutch.

If you hammer out your approaches in the trenches over the next 1-3 years, you'll get good at passing tests, logistics, creating attraction and getting laid through your actions (approaching/leading/escalating) and your vibe alone.

Then when you do start doing better financially and have more means, that will only make things easier.

Gaming broke actually makes a good rite of passage (not forever, but while you're young). You'll look back on it as your formative days.

Post: #16

OP I'm in the same boat as you. A lil older (24) born and raised in one of the places mentioned by Potential. I went to uni oop north, and that is where I obtained all my notches, I still have a v. low notch count though. I have only been back in London for a few months since graduating uni and have obtained a grad job as a dev. I plan on going freelance in 3-5 years and doing the whole travelling thing, 6 months in Manila, 6 months in Jakarta etc.

London is demoralising, I think the combination of logistics, expense, attitudes of women etc. have to make it one of the hardest places on the planet to get laid in! One thing I have noticed which can help (and has been mentioned here a couple of times before) a awful lot of guys are skinny. By being built you definitely give yourself an advantage. I have been lifting etc. since I started work (to a point where me boy the other day actually said "you're looking good man") and it does make a slight difference, so I'd definitely recommend that to start off with.

And yeah, I'd definitely be up to meet up with you and Sensei Creation to run some daygame, nightgame etc. PM me and let me know.

Post: #17

London is more "logistics" than "game". Give a man a smallish flat to himself (or even shared with another dude) in Fitzrovia, Marylebone, Clerkenwell, Farringdon, Angel, Camden or Shoreditch and he will absolutely slaughter his competition who are house sharing in Zone 3 and beyond. Such a man could be relatively retarded but his unimpeachable logistics will give him access to players who will go out with him solely for the value of his pad and will wish to bring girls back to his after nights out like a pizza delivery driver offering up a late night snack. I know this because I know people in this exact position.

If you can afford 500GBP per week on logistics, you don't even need game. You get a ready made social circle and insta-house parties at yours.

London is brutal because the rents payable on good logistics are more than 100% of many people's salaries

Post: #18

Unknown Killer and OP,

Everywhere is difficult to game without game.

Focus/work on yourself. Just be awesome, believe that you're awesome, and pussy will follow naturally. It'll become obvious that girls are attracted to you, and you'll convey that vibe without too much effort. If you're actually educated and living an interesting life, people (including girls) will find you interesting. That includes getting fit, but is not enough. Personality is king.

P.S. No idea why you would want to spend 6 months in either Manila or Jakarta. Have to be two of the worst cities in the world.

Edit: RichieP knows where it's at. I learnt all this being a broke-as student, completely supporting myself since 18. Have the inner confidence to believe that you're awesome (and be awesome) and learn to game girls regardless of situation. Once you have money, logistics, etc you'll be invincible - but that's secondary.

Post: #19

Fair points Trawler. I want to spend some time in Manila (PI in general) to rack up the notches, it is no mystery to anyone on this forum that this is the best country on the planet to do this in. I just think it will help my inner game better than anything I can do here (I will still do all these things anyway). Besides, reading through the PI thread, it seems like a pretty cool place to spend some time in.

Post: #20

Fair enough. Notch count is a worthy pursuit. Don't want to derail your thread, but all I meant is that pretty much anywhere else in the Philippines or Indonesia are infinitely nicer, and will have the same female prospects as the capitals.

Post: #21

(11-08-2015 06:49 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  London is more "logistics" than "game". Give a man a smallish flat to himself (or even shared with another dude) in Fitzrovia, Marylebone, Clerkenwell, Farringdon, Angel, Camden or Shoreditch and he will absolutely slaughter his competition who are house sharing in Zone 3 and beyond. Such a man could be relatively retarded but his unimpeachable logistics will give him access to players who will go out with him solely for the value of his pad and will wish to bring girls back to his after nights out like a pizza delivery driver offering up a late night snack. I know this because I know people in this exact position.

If you can afford 500GBP per week on logistics, you don't even need game. You get a ready made social circle and insta-house parties at yours.

London is brutal because the rents payable on good logistics are more than 100% of many people's salaries

This is very true. Story time:

A friend did me a big favour a while back , and let me stay in one of his 1-bed properties in Zone 1 in london, for a fraction of the market rate. This apartment was huge, & the living room was large enough for a five-a-side game of footy. The walk-in shower alone was bigger than the bathroom at my current place ffs

Because of this, going out in shoreditch/hoxton/fleet street was a piece of cake, and getting chicks back was even easier, they just invited themselves after my friends/their friends would let on(i'd never say anythingmyself, didnt want to come across as a try-hard) about how sick my place was

I built up a rotation of three chicks in about a month, then stopped going out..until i left that place and the rotation dispersed ha. I still see one of the chicks though

Living there has spurred me on to get a place like that.. its one thing hearing about/assuming how having a good place helps getting chicks, but its another thing entirely experiencing it for yourself.

so yeah, logistics is very important in london, and like you said, if you have it, then all you need to do is be washed and present.

Post: #22

Save up a few bucks then look for a nice flat share in west London.. At least you can then bring girls back to your place. .. I personally hate east. I date a girl who lives near Old St , I pick her up and drive her west !
Just start taking small steps to reach your goal. Accountants have jobs for life normally , so not a bad career choice.

Join OK cupid , love struck london and Inner Circle London , IC is my new favourite ( lie about your job , take a good pic) ) - get some dates , who cares if they go wrong .. Meet for coffee , it costs next to nothing .
Just interacting with women will change your game for the better.

I'm 34 and had a real dry spell last year , I have a decent amount of game , but wasn't meeting the girls I wanted.
Started SA game ( read newbie) thread and I now have more dates than I know what to do with .. I'm not suggesting you do the same , but it was this small change that drastically improved my bang rate..

You have everything you need on this forum to make things happen .. Good luck .

Post: #23

While we're on social networks, I should mention that ASMALLWORLD works wonders in London. Was my browser home page basically.

It was free when I was living there but defo worth the $100/yr membership fee they're asking now. Got me countless notches.

If they're still asking for invitation just hit me up on PM, I think I had a few.

Post: #24

I'm in asw, as well. How did you run game on there ??
I've just cancelled my membership as I thought it was poor value for money. The meet ups were pants ..

Post: #25

Minimum first time buyer salary for London now 140,000 GBP :
http://uk.businessinsider.com/go-compare...ge-2015-11

What is everyone's game plan here long term ? London prices are predicted to rise 20% over next 5 years on top of current insane levels.

I'm stashing cash, stamping London pedigree to my CV and then thinking of where else might be good. Buying is not a realistic choice anywhere in South East England other than somewhere shit. Happy to rent for now but that might change when I hit mid-30s.

I guess Manchester is still an option but I would rather move out to Thong Lor or Ekkamai in Bangkok or maybe even Amsterdam.