Post: #1

Whenever I go anywhere I always observe the body language and dynamics of couples I see out and about, especially those where the women are the specific physical type that I'm attracted to. One pattern that I have noticed is that the men are very stoic and aloof in their body language and facial expressions and the women are smiling, doting, hanging all over them and clearly appear more into their men than the men appear to be into them.

My interpretation of this male/female dynamic is that the man is showing alpha body language and behavior and the woman is in her natural feminine submissive and chasing state of mind.

When I look back to all of my dating and relationships, even those post red pill and after years of reading this forum I really don't remember any instances that come to mind where I've been in that role, meaning having a woman "all over me" in public while I'm just sitting there. Rather it has always been me initiating touch, pulling the woman in close to me, having my arm around her etc. I tend to have a naturally stoic, intense look about me and the times where I haven't initiated any contact the women have reciprocated by pulling back, being distant and otherwise mirroring my facial expressions and body language.

So, my overall question or rather dilemma, is how are these guys able to have these women looking at them with puppy dog eyes, arms all over when their body language shows outward indifference? Like I mentioned earlier I've had the same body language in the past unconsciously and the results were the exact opposite of what I'm seeing.

Post: #2

It's funny you mention this because I've recently found myself in the role of the stoic man you're describing and last night during an outing with my most regular girl I was thinking over what is behind this kind of dynamic and how I got to this point.

When it came to this girl, I haven't really gamed her too much recently. I've put my attention and work into other girls, whether it be foreign girls or girls much more attractive than her or other FBs I've neglected, etc. Really I have been bored with this particular girl and stopped showing her so much attention.

That's why I was surprised to see her hanging off of me and trying to "claim" me in public. I wouldn't care about her, so I was passively gaming her. In response, she pumped up her effort in the chase and tried to mark me in public as her own. This is because natural game came into play—I wasn't tricking her into thinking I had options, I wasn't going out of my way to convince her I didn't care, I just didn't care, and I had already done my part in establishing attraction early on so that my boredom with her stoked her fire and caused her to hang off me in public.

But even out in society this is happening a lot. In this hook-up culture, the guys who get pussy are getting increasingly bored with the girls they have for too long. So, even if they don't know how to start anything more than a ONS with another girl, the girl they currently have assumes from his boredom that he has other girls lined up or can have other girls lined up to replace her. That's how I explain this, because I'm seeing it more and more as well.

The take away from this is that if you want to make this happen to a girl, game her like you would, then keep her around longer than you normally would once her charm and attraction wears off. Hang out with her and let yourself be bored. Be lazy with your game. Just act like you want to. Note how you act, body language and all, and apply that behavior to girls you've already established attraction with.

They'll either start hanging off of you in public to reel you back in, or they'll throw emotional tantrums to gauge your investment in them. Keep being stoic in both cases. If she ditches you, you hadn't established the base amount of attraction for you to be worth the fight for her.

Post: #3

You need to have your fun side out in the beginning to catch them. Once you have that comfort built you need to cut it back a bit and let it out intermittently to keep them reeled in. The stoic indifference keeps them guessing after you have them comfortable.

You probably need to break into their comfort zone more, make them giggle more and have them act girly. They need to know you are a teddy bear on the inside they can grab onto for comfort with the outward appearance of someone uncaring. It is a delicate balance.

They love the dichotomy. They want surprises.

The times girls have escalated on me is when I am not focused on escalating on them. I am focused on having fun and making her laugh and be girly, then cutting it cold to indifferent and bored.

They start grabbing onto you when they feel like you are about to take the fun away and look for other pussy. I think it is as much an act of fear as it is of love.

Post: #4

Good info @Tex and @Travesty. One of the reasons why I absolutely love this forum. It makes sense, women want unpredictability and when I think about it, it's really just another instance of executing push/pull. I need to consciously incorporate this into my overall game.

Post: #5

"The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less"-Uncle Wayne



So simple yet so so true

Post: #6

There isn't one particular thing that leads to a woman acting this way. Women are attracted to status and status can mean many things; Money, Looks, Social Circle, Game, Talent etc. Once you display status you display value and once you display value the above quote magnifies any and all feelings she has for you.

Post: #7

(11-23-2015 04:07 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  "The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less"-Uncle Wayne



So simple yet so so true

I hear what you're saying PT. I would only add that one of the principles of body language and communication that I've read and experienced myself about is mirroring along with leading/following and rapport building. In the times past where I either consciously decided to hang back in how I physically engaged women I've been with or was not even thinking about it and hung back the women I was with would mirror my body language and pull back themselves. That's where my question lays.

I think though the answer is in mixing up physical contact between pulling her in and then being indifferent (the push). In all fairness I'm not seeing how these guys physically interact with their women in private and that might be where the 'pull' comes in. In public they could be falling back which is the push part. Regardless it's an interesting dynamic that I've observed.

Post: #8

(11-23-2015 04:31 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 04:07 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  "The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less"-Uncle Wayne



So simple yet so so true

I hear what you're saying PT. I would only add that one of the principles of body language and communication that I've read and experienced myself about is mirroring along with leading/following and rapport building. In the times past where I either consciously decided to hang back in how I physically engaged women I've been with or was not even thinking about it and hung back the women I was with would mirror my body language and pull back themselves. That's where my question lays.

I think though the answer is in mixing up physical contact between pulling her in and then being indifferent (the push). In all fairness I'm not seeing how these guys physically interact with their women in private and that might be where the 'pull' comes in. In public they could be falling back which is the push part. Regardless it's an interesting dynamic that I've observed.

There was a picture (I think it was on ROK or Heartiste) that I think would illustrate what your describing...but I cant find it. It was two couples in a bar. The couple in the foreground had a the guy with his head on the girls shoulder and arms around her waist. The look on the girls face I swear showed disgust.

The other couple in the background the guy was just sitting there looking off into the distance and the girl was hanging on his arm with her head on his shoulder and a look of contentment

IMO there's a subtle but difference between being aloof and closed off and women can sense it. Aloofness can create attraction whereas closed off can prevent it. Could that be what your experiencing?

Post: #9

(11-23-2015 05:27 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  IMO there's a subtle but difference between being aloof and closed off and women can sense it. Aloofness can create attraction whereas closed off can prevent it. Could that be what your experiencing?

Quite possibly! After writing my original post and seeing the good replies and discussion I remember that in many of the cases the guy would be verbally engaging the woman and doing a lot of non verbals with his eyes and well placed smirks but the rest of his body appeared the same as if he were there by himself. I think that's where the disconnect is for me. I'm fully disengaged and the woman can feel that and in turn pulls away whereas I should be engaged with my eyes, subtle facial expressions and playful banter yet from the neck down I'm relaxed and indifferent.

Post: #10

(11-23-2015 04:31 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  I think though the answer is in mixing up physical contact between pulling her in and then being indifferent (the push).

For my perspective: And others are more than welcome to disagree but the push/pull or any other game tactic is just a short term fix/bandaid if it's being utilised as a primary tool to gain women's affections.

If your value in the relationship isn't established: Acting aloof will be perceived through a negative lens. Conversely acting affectionate will be seen as 'needy'. It's a lose/lose because you are replaceable.

If your value has been established: Acting aloof will be perceived positively. She will think: "What am I doing wrong" "Does he like another girl" "I better step up my game". Acting affectionate will not be seen as needy. It will be seen as 'romantic'.

This tightrope comes from your value. Not so much the subtle things you say, or the subtle actions you consciously make.

To look at it from a larger scale:

Take any celebrity. I'll use Johnny Depp as an example. He acts aloof, wears hipster clothing etc. He is perceived as 'deep', 'fashionable' and 'confident'. If you provide value: A women will construct whatever image fits her fantasy without any effort on your part what so ever.

Remove his value [Looks, Celebrity]: And your standard male would be foolish to attempt to emulate this. You fall on the other end of the tightrope. Instead of deep you become 'boring'. Instead of confident you become slovenly etc etc.

Women are social beings. For women, attraction is status. For men it's femininity. That is the reason women are attracted to dozens of different types of men whilst we are more or less attracted to only one type of woman.

If you have status they will cling to you. If you don't then you will be fighting an impossible battle attempting to use 'tricks' to win her affection

Post: #11

(11-23-2015 05:27 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 04:31 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 04:07 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  "The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less"-Uncle Wayne



So simple yet so so true

I hear what you're saying PT. I would only add that one of the principles of body language and communication that I've read and experienced myself about is mirroring along with leading/following and rapport building. In the times past where I either consciously decided to hang back in how I physically engaged women I've been with or was not even thinking about it and hung back the women I was with would mirror my body language and pull back themselves. That's where my question lays.

I think though the answer is in mixing up physical contact between pulling her in and then being indifferent (the push). In all fairness I'm not seeing how these guys physically interact with their women in private and that might be where the 'pull' comes in. In public they could be falling back which is the push part. Regardless it's an interesting dynamic that I've observed.

There was a picture (I think it was on ROK or Heartiste) that I think would illustrate what your describing...but I cant find it. It was two couples in a bar. The couple in the foreground had a the guy with his head on the girls shoulder and arms around her waist. The look on the girls face I swear showed disgust.

The other couple in the background the guy was just sitting there looking off into the distance and the girl was hanging on his arm with her head on his shoulder and a look of contentment

IMO there's a subtle but difference between being aloof and closed off and women can sense it. Aloofness can create attraction whereas closed off can prevent it. Could that be what your experiencing?

Ask and ye shall receive.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/...beta-male/

Post: #12

Women I date seriously all behave like this around me. I'm not aloof or stoic though, I'm very energetic and enthusiastic. However, my body usually faces outwards to the world, while hers turns to mine. My body language is very similar to how I'd be if I were by myself.

e.g as we walk down the street, I'd offer her my right arm, and she'd hang on to it with both arms, while walking slightly behind me, with head down or turned towards me. While we sit on a park bench, I'd sit with open arms and legs, take up space and look forward, while she leans into my frame and runs her hands on my body. I'd be telling stories or making social commentaries most of the time, but I'd also just stay silent and enjoy the peacefulness. Occasionally I'd pull her in tight to reward her with a kiss. Except for sexytime, I do the same in private as in public.

Her attention is always 100% on me, while I reserve some percentage (not sure how much) of mine somewhere else. She'd notice and I tell her it's my protector's instinct to be aware of our surroundings.

I reckon my enthusiasm and lack of aloofness make other women even more interested in me when they see me with my woman. I'd get a lot of looks, and my woman always notices, so it provides both pre-selection and soft dread at the same time.

I don't recommend faking aloofness if it is not in your nature to be so.

Post: #13

Good job earthishomie

BTW...I bet the dude in the background ended up banging the blond in the foreground and the chode with her is banging his fist

Post: #14

The dynamic you talk about goes deeper than aloof vs closed off or who initiates physical contact. It's about the whole context of that relationship between man and woman. We would need to write about the big picture to break it down. In short, it's about power and who is in charge. Status does not stay still. It can change and shift in real time.

From what I know guys who got their women all over them are hot/cold. They send mixed signals, they can be very caring and nice but also very distant and cruel. Also, they don't express their emotions or thoughts too much, they keep it to themselves. The end result is that their women have no idea what they feel what they think about and what is happening next. That combination of connection and anxiety keeps them on their toes. They hang on to their men to keep their attention on them. It's natural reaction to mixed signals.

People like to think that security/no worries makes us motivated to be nice and loyal another person. False. It's exactly opposite. It's insecurity and fear of loss. Only once we feel we can lose someone we start to really appreciate what we have [that's why takeaways work so well ]. And that is exactly what those guys do perfectly [consciously or not]. Their chicks simply feel contrasting emotions all the time so to remove that discomfort they do those things to reassure themselves everything is OK. I'm just scratching the surface here but that's the gist of it.