Post: #1

http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/S...Days.aspx#

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstoss...page/full/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

If you're thinking about spending 4 or more years going into debt to get a degree, you better think twice.

If I was 18 and getting ready to go to college, I might look at going straight into an internship, getting an apprenticeship, a trade school, technical institute, or if I was going to go to college, go a cheap one, don't rack up to much debt and get a couple of semesters abroad in places like Colombia or Brazil. Also make sure you get a degree in a career that is in high demand, or learn a trade that is and will be in high demand.

Just some food for thought for some of you young bucks...

Post: #2

I'd say it completely depends on the person... and the problem is most 17-18 year olds don't know who they are, what they want, or what is available to them. I played it "safe", went to college on debt for a "valuable" undergraduate degree, and used mostly none of it to make more than most of my peers now. Relying on and going into debt for formal education is going to become a progressively less rewarding choice in my personal estimation of the near future. If I were to do the last decade over again (I'm 27), I'd do it a lot differently and wouldn't have gone into debt for college.

I think we're entering the age of free agents and micro-entrepreneurship that rewards specific solution providers over formal education and certifications.

Post: #3

(06-28-2011 04:08 AM)Rah Wrote:  Relying on and going into debt for formal education is going to become a progressively less rewarding choice in my personal estimation of the near future.

Going to?

It already is.

Kids leave home thinking they've finally escaped the shackles their parents have fastened to them for 17-18 years, then after they finish school (which for most takes longer than 4 years), they have to return to the bedrooms they grew up in because they can't find jobs.

This is why we are called the NINJA generation.

If we do want to be successful, it's time to retire old ideas. Going to college and getting a good job shortly afterwards is a concept of yesteryear, one that made sense when you had an undereducated workforce and the expense to attend was reasonable.

Post: #4

Extremely relevant thread:

/thread-4351.html

Post: #5

In my humble opinion, everyone's opinions in this thread have been correct so far.

@Dandelacruz: I've been thinking about this issue - designing a structured means for people to skip college and enter the workforce, possibly internationally, without having to live with the stigma of not having a BA. Sales jobs, entrepreneurship, and any kind of brokerage or import/export type business immediately comes to mind. I think more young people should take a business/career-related gap year to test the waters and see if they can strike it big. I'm working out the concept/structure for something I call a "Renaissance Year" in which college dropouts, gap-year students, recent high school grads can strategically craft themselves 2-3 years worth of work experience in 6-12 months. I'm increasingly realizing there are some career paths that do not require a bachelors that can actually be quite lucrative. I'm still looking into the concept and I'll throw in some ideas when I think it's ready to be discussed.

@Rah - Absoltuely right. I had no clue where I wanted to be when I graduated from high school. I think this is a reason why it's important for young people to try and test the waters of the working world. I've gotten to where I am through a process of "Ready-Fire-Aim" in which I kept moving forward in different industries and positions until I narrowed down what was right for me. I think that first experience in the working world and/or abroad would give them perspective about what they DON"T want, which is arguably just as important as knowing what one DOES want. Well put, sir. Entrepreneurship is also certainly a great option for them.

FAIL FORWARD. Planning is good but eventually action must be taken.

@Jariel - you are correct about retiring old ideas. The entire landscape of education and careers has been completely turned on its back in this new economy, yet people are still holding on to dogma of how things have been since the 1950's.

Although I must say, for certain careers like the medical field, engineering, architecture, I would strongly prefer that these professionals be rigorously trained in both an academic and work setting. I'm not sure how wise it is to make a universal statement that all forms of higher education are poor investments. It depends to a certain degree on the individual and his/her profession of choice.

Post: #6

I plan on getting my graduate degree in international business. A corporate job that allows/requires you to travel is the best of both worlds.

Post: #7

I cannot speak bad about college.

My major was Mathematics-Computer Science PLUS I live in the DC area PLUS I have a Top Secret clearance. Now entering my 20th year of constant employment and 10th year with a six-figure salary.

THANKS to the USA foreign policies which creates contracts and projects for me.

Post: #8

I wish I had talent for math or computer science.My major in Business & Marketing is shitty.

Post: #9

(06-29-2011 08:40 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  I wish I had talent for math or computer science.My major in Business & Marketing is shitty.

Funny how a college professor will never tell you there's such a thing as a "wrong major".

Post: #10

(06-29-2011 11:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Funny how a college professor will never tell you there's such a thing as a "wrong major".

I'm sure there is a college professor who frequents this board who would be happy to tell you there are wrong majors.

Going to college for the sake of going to college just to get a degree in a useless major is a "bad investment" depending on whether you're going to go into debt or not. Also, when you go to a public university, like the many great ones we have in California, your four years of education will cost about the same as one year at a good private school (minus the room & board costs) so it's not a terribly bad investment.

If you're not losing too much money, college is a great way to learn about all sorts of things you wouldn't learn about, if you are intellectually curious.

If you're not intellectually curious, you should go to trade school. Germany has a great system where apprenticeships are the norm for the majority of people for whom going to college seems like a waste of time. I think it would be good for the U.S. to adopt a system more like Germany's.

For one, through the apprenticeship system they have there, I'm sure they have greater company loyalty. Another good reason is that the country just works better. Look where Germany is today when almost every other country in the world is eating its own shit.

Post: #11

My heart feels you De La Cruz, but the stats tell a much different story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/sunday....html?_r=1

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/unemplo...ucation-2/

Even people with Humanitites degrees earn much more money than those without them. I agree, if you have an alternative plan and pursue it with relentless discipline as an alternative to university, you might be able to do better than you otherwise would have going to college. But most people are going to be better off with a degree. I think the important thing is to keep the costs of that degree as low as you possibly can. Outside of a few elite fields and companies, nobody cares where you went to school after you graduate, and paying several times what a perfectly reasonable state school costs makes no sense if you are getting more or less the same education.

Post: #12

College is valuable, but it's not for everybody, which is what most people are indoctrinated into thinking at a young age by our education system. It used to be that only the well off or exceptionally bright could go to college. Now everybody has a master's degree. Even a lot of dummies have MBA's now, because all you have to do is be willing to go into 100,000+ worth of debt and you get the degree. No school is going to fail someone paying them 40-60 grand a year.

However, if one is exceptionally bright and is intellectually curious in ONE SPECIFIC AREA OF ACADEMICS, I still think it's the best route to get a PhD. If you get accepted to a top 25 University, it's usually not that hard to get your tuition fully covered and receive a stipend, which, admittedly, is not that much.

Once you obtain that PhD, associate professors of economics at most major universities start at 80 grand, but only work 9 months out of the year and also do consulting work for extra cash. Once you start moving up, it's possible to write books (and make your students buy it), work on the side, become department head, etc. You can rake in a good 400+ grand a year JUST from the school if you become department head at a good university. Consulting work on the side/other endeavors can yield even more than that. Paid sabbatical leave, visiting professorships abroad, and summers off with a lot of freedom to research what you want make at least the PhD/tenure professorship track very attractive. That is only one case. College is what you make of it.

PS-Always major in math/comp sci/engineering/finance/econ/anything that finishes with a professional degree even nursing. PhD or masters in almost all of those listed give you the opportunity to be very mobile, both in education and in the private sector.

Post: #13

(07-01-2011 09:26 AM)Ajiaco Wrote:  My heart feels you De La Cruz, but the stats tell a much different story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/sunday....html?_r=1

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/unemplo...ucation-2/

Even people with Humanitites degrees earn much more money than those without them. I agree, if you have an alternative plan and pursue it with relentless discipline as an alternative to university, you might be able to do better than you otherwise would have going to college. But most people are going to be better off with a degree. I think the important thing is to keep the costs of that degree as low as you possibly can. Outside of a few elite fields and companies, nobody cares where you went to school after you graduate, and paying several times what a perfectly reasonable state school costs makes no sense if you are getting more or less the same education.

Fuck the statistics man.

Quote:Back in 1999, I was the head nerd at an online "entertainment" company. Soon we quickly grew and they needed to hire a head nerd out of state. He was 16 years old. They paid me 30k$ at the time, and they paid him 120k$. Why? He was really smart. He set up all the servers, hardware, networking, software, custom programming. Wanna know how a 16 y/o got that smart? At 13 his dad grounded him off of video games. He was only allowed to use a computer. And not windows either, he had to use unix. Then @ 14 he went to high school for 3 months and decided it was stupid. His dad AGREED and let him drop out to surf the internet and build computers. Welp, 3 years later, the kid is driving a Lexus thats paid for and getting paid 120k$ a year. At 28 hes retired and dj's and makes music and goes out on the weekends.

http://mpcdot.com/forums/index.php?/topi...entry39211

Post: #14

Why? I don't believe it. College is education and education is an investment to our future. There are many advantages of going to college, as the last stage of learning inside the four walls and corners of a classroom.

Aside from this will help a child become sociable by meeting new friends or joining extra-curricular activities, this can also greatly help prepare the child for his/her future. He can start to earn money and really knows the zigzag of life. He can apply his course he took in college or not, at his/her own discretion.

And for guides on among the promising careers of the coming years, what tops is related to computers or technology. There are really many money in the virtual world. Start with blogs. One just need exploration and interest.

Post: #15

There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Post: #16

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashio...gewanted=1

Still think college is a scam?

Post: #17

(07-09-2011 04:57 PM)blurb Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashio...gewanted=1

Still think college is a scam?

You don't need to attend college to run into those girls on ladies night.

Post: #18

(07-09-2011 06:53 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(07-09-2011 04:57 PM)blurb Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashio...gewanted=1

Still think college is a scam?

You don't need to attend college to run into those girls on ladies night.

Correct. All you got to do is show up to North Carolina...no degree required for that.

By the way, one of the most successful (of many) men I admire is Larry Ellison. CEO of Oracle Corp, and probably worth about 40B USD, and has annual salary of 70MUSD as CEO of Oracle Corp.


My favorite quote from him is:

"I have all the disadvantages required for success".

Larry, of course, does not have a BA degree and dropped out of college.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Ellison

Mixx

Post: #19

Well, the magic bullet to financial fortune is to develop something that you can sell to the masses and make huge profits. As evident with the number of failed businesses, exactly finding that "magical product" and developing a business around it is hard as hell to do. Therefore, it would be wise to have some skill-set that you can rely on in case the business does not take off. Far too many times, folks go "all or nothing" with businesses and do not factor in the risk of a failed business.

Yeah, college is a scam...WHEN one decides to take up some unmarketable major especially at some expensive university. Unless you have parents who can give you one of their summer homes and give you access to their "accumulated wealth", you better take some major where you can make some money. It's not like there aren't thousands of articles and surveys that TELLS YOU how much you will probably make from you major, so I could never understand why someone would spend tens of thousands of dollars on a Sociology degree and will have to compete with 9 million others with same major for the 100 jobs out there.

...then they complain about college being a scam.

Post: #20

blurb Wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashio...gewanted=1

Still think college is a scam?

I’m glad you posted this article because it is a FUCKING TEXTBOOK example of many of the things we say about American women and the media which reinforces and enables their delusions.


In terms of academic advancement, this is hardly the worst news for women — hoist a mug for female achievement. And certainly, women are primarily in college not because they are looking for men, but because they want to earn a degree.


Gotta call bullshit on this one. Women are earning degrees, because of how easy it is to at least pass in college, but they generally spend more time on facebook and playing with their I-phone than worrying about differential equations.


Jayne Dallas, a senior studying advertising who was seated across the table, grumbled that the population of male undergraduates was even smaller when you looked at it as a dating pool. “Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,” she said.


Female hypergamy and pickiness in action. She’s conceding that even though the enrollment is about 40% male, she’d only give about 10% of them the time of day. So again, it’s not that there’s “no good men out there”, it’s that the very few I like are unattainable. “It can’t be because of my excessive choosiness and inflated ego. It must be the guys fault!”


Needless to say, this puts guys in a position to play the field, and tends to mean that even the ones willing to make a commitment come with storied romantic histories. Rachel Sasser, a senior history major at the table, said that before she and her boyfriend started dating, he had “hooked up with a least five of my friends in my sorority — that I know of.”


Further proof of what has already been discovered by game sites. She wants to be committed to a guy who is player. She’s saying that this is a bad quality, but it’s probably what attracted her in the first place: the pre-selection.


In December, the United States Commission on Civil Rights moved to subpoena admissions data from 19 public and private colleges to look at whether they were discriminating against qualified female applicants.


That’s actually pretty fucking disappointing. It’s not 1950. We know women aren’t being systematically discriminated against in the U.S. anymore. Why waste time and money on this when we already know most schools are disproportionately female?


Thanks to simple laws of supply and demand, it is often the women who must assert themselves romantically or be left alone on Valentine’s Day, staring down a George Clooney movie over a half-empty pizza box


These American bitches really need to lay off the pizza and junk food. If they’d rather sit home and complain on that day instead of going out and trying to meet someone, who’s at fault?


Even worse, “Girls feel pressured to do more than they’re comfortable with, to lock it down,” Ms. Lynch said.


What a fucking travesty! Clearly, these women are perfect angels and never go out with the intention of getting a dick in them.


“Women do not want to get left out in the cold, so they are competing for men on men’s terms,” she wrote. “This results in more casual hook-up encounters that do not end up leading to more serious romantic relationships. Since college women say they generally want ‘something more’ than just a casual hook-up, women end up losing out.”


Obviously the assumption is that this is inherently bad. The default state for sex and relationships is supposed to be on women’s terms. They also conveniently forget to mention the fact that feminism, women’s liberation, and entering the workforce pretty much created this hook-up culture.


And perhaps still elusive. Many women eagerly hit the library on Saturday night. And most would prefer to go out with friends, rather than date a campus brute.


The typical “men are pigs for wanting to get laid.” We should be the ones changing to meet their expectations.



“It causes girls to overanalyze everything — text messages, sideways glances, conversations,” said Margaret Cheatham Williams, a junior at North Carolina. “Girls will sit there with their friends for 15 minutes trying to figure out what punctuation to use in a text message.”


Proves our point that women are becoming socially retarded / aspergers kids due to excessive texting and facebooking.

A lot of guys know that they can go out and put minimal effort into their appearance and not treat girls to drinks or flatter them, and girls will still flirt with them,” said Felicite Fallon, a senior at Florida State University, which is 56 percent female.


See that dudes, you’re supposed to be buying her shit and flattering her from the first second you meet her.



“My roommate’s parents met here,” said Janitra Venkatesan, a student at North Carolina. “She has this nice little picture of them in their Carolina sweatshirts. Must be nice.”


Her father would definitely be considered a beta male and rejected from the start these days. Some dork who would offer to wear a matching sweatshirt with her is going to be unattractive to her.

The entire undertone of that whole fucking article is that men should be playing by women's rules in this game, and when the numbers don't give these entitled princesses every advantage possible, it's a tragedy. They all should have armies of George Clooney clones lining up to date them. It's pretty obvious who their target audience is.

On a side note, it should also be mentioned that middle and upper class American college girls at good universities like the ones mentioned in the article are only attracted sexually to guys have great looks, tons of social proof and respect, and come from upper class (money) families. There simply aren't many guys like that to go around, so they're all gonna be cat ladies soon enough.

Post: #21

Anything is a scam if you let it use you. Have some balls and go out and conquer. Go into school focusing on what matters (hint - it is not your social status or partying, that will come your senior year when you've had job offers and bitches know what your about.. around that time reality will hit them too and they will want someone who is going somewhere)

get the proper use of it. don't go somewhere overly expensive. look at the doors it will open for you and go from there. private schools are overrated. go to a public school. get a major in something fucking useful. seriously if you don't know what you want to do.. work at figuring it out. don't dick around playing video games and watching tv. research, talk to professors.

you can study nursing (I am not kidding about this) and be surrounded by fucking BABES all day and be guaranteed a job (if you work your ass off and try to be the best at whatever it is your doing, you'll be guaranteed a job.. but in this case even more so) and then become an anesthesiologist or something. If you know your going into business, whatever the fuck you do don't major in marketing, or "business," and especially not international business. Friends of mine that have done that are working at summer camps and teaching abroad cause they can't find shit now. Go Information systems, finance, accounting.. pick one. you won't regret it. when you start getting paid internships offered left and right, and get flown to conferences for free... you'll start to see what i mean.

not going to college is about the dumbest fucking thing you can do.

if you don't have the grades to get into a good school. go to a community college, make A's (push yourself, don't make excuses) and you can get accepted into any above average public university, and start forging your path. think of your life as being a story. what rich kid who had everything given to him is going to have a good story, what are interviewers really going to think of some boring ass spoiled brat.. now the blue collar working class kid who forged his way through struggles and had to TAKE what was rightfully his.. now that is the shit real stories are made of.... it's your life, make it special

Post: #22

(07-09-2011 07:59 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

blurb Wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashio...gewanted=1

Still think college is a scam?

I’m glad you posted this article because it is a FUCKING TEXTBOOK example of many of the things we say about American women and the media which reinforces and enables their delusions.


In terms of academic advancement, this is hardly the worst news for women — hoist a mug for female achievement. And certainly, women are primarily in college not because they are looking for men, but because they want to earn a degree.


Gotta call bullshit on this one. Women are earning degrees, because of how easy it is to at least pass in college, but they generally spend more time on facebook and playing with their I-phone than worrying about differential equations.


Jayne Dallas, a senior studying advertising who was seated across the table, grumbled that the population of male undergraduates was even smaller when you looked at it as a dating pool. “Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,” she said.


Female hypergamy and pickiness in action. She’s conceding that even though the enrollment is about 40% male, she’d only give about 10% of them the time of day. So again, it’s not that there’s “no good men out there”, it’s that the very few I like are unattainable. “It can’t be because of my excessive choosiness and inflated ego. It must be the guys fault!”


Needless to say, this puts guys in a position to play the field, and tends to mean that even the ones willing to make a commitment come with storied romantic histories. Rachel Sasser, a senior history major at the table, said that before she and her boyfriend started dating, he had “hooked up with a least five of my friends in my sorority — that I know of.”


Further proof of what has already been discovered by game sites. She wants to be committed to a guy who is player. She’s saying that this is a bad quality, but it’s probably what attracted her in the first place: the pre-selection.


In December, the United States Commission on Civil Rights moved to subpoena admissions data from 19 public and private colleges to look at whether they were discriminating against qualified female applicants.


That’s actually pretty fucking disappointing. It’s not 1950. We know women aren’t being systematically discriminated against in the U.S. anymore. Why waste time and money on this when we already know most schools are disproportionately female?


Thanks to simple laws of supply and demand, it is often the women who must assert themselves romantically or be left alone on Valentine’s Day, staring down a George Clooney movie over a half-empty pizza box


These American bitches really need to lay off the pizza and junk food. If they’d rather sit home and complain on that day instead of going out and trying to meet someone, who’s at fault?


Even worse, “Girls feel pressured to do more than they’re comfortable with, to lock it down,” Ms. Lynch said.


What a fucking travesty! Clearly, these women are perfect angels and never go out with the intention of getting a dick in them.


“Women do not want to get left out in the cold, so they are competing for men on men’s terms,” she wrote. “This results in more casual hook-up encounters that do not end up leading to more serious romantic relationships. Since college women say they generally want ‘something more’ than just a casual hook-up, women end up losing out.”


Obviously the assumption is that this is inherently bad. The default state for sex and relationships is supposed to be on women’s terms. They also conveniently forget to mention the fact that feminism, women’s liberation, and entering the workforce pretty much created this hook-up culture.


And perhaps still elusive. Many women eagerly hit the library on Saturday night. And most would prefer to go out with friends, rather than date a campus brute.


The typical “men are pigs for wanting to get laid.” We should be the ones changing to meet their expectations.



“It causes girls to overanalyze everything — text messages, sideways glances, conversations,” said Margaret Cheatham Williams, a junior at North Carolina. “Girls will sit there with their friends for 15 minutes trying to figure out what punctuation to use in a text message.”


Proves our point that women are becoming socially retarded / aspergers kids due to excessive texting and facebooking.

A lot of guys know that they can go out and put minimal effort into their appearance and not treat girls to drinks or flatter them, and girls will still flirt with them,” said Felicite Fallon, a senior at Florida State University, which is 56 percent female.


See that dudes, you’re supposed to be buying her shit and flattering her from the first second you meet her.



“My roommate’s parents met here,” said Janitra Venkatesan, a student at North Carolina. “She has this nice little picture of them in their Carolina sweatshirts. Must be nice.”


Her father would definitely be considered a beta male and rejected from the start these days. Some dork who would offer to wear a matching sweatshirt with her is going to be unattractive to her.

The entire undertone of that whole fucking article is that men should be playing by women's rules in this game, and when the numbers don't give these entitled princesses every advantage possible, it's a tragedy. They all should have armies of George Clooney clones lining up to date them. It's pretty obvious who their target audience is.

On a side note, it should also be mentioned that middle and upper class American college girls at good universities like the ones mentioned in the article are only attracted sexually to guys have great looks, tons of social proof and respect, and come from upper class (money) families. There simply aren't many guys like that to go around, so they're all gonna be cat ladies soon enough.

I LOVE how you analyzed (or tore up) this article man!! I enjoyed reading your replies more than the article itself.

I like your style..



Mixx

Post: #23

(07-09-2011 08:17 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  not going to college is about the dumbest fucking thing you can do.

If you say so.

http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

Post: #24

For someone very shy but book-smart such as myself (top 1% verbal SAT and GRE) education was just about the only way for me to eventually get to say FU to the aggressive, alpha schmucks that rule the world.

They didn't want to pay me for programming, or for doctoral level skills in psychology.
But they had to, and they did.

Now I do what I want. If you have inherent entrepreneurial skills, may be very different.

Post: #25

(07-09-2011 09:20 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(07-09-2011 08:17 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  not going to college is about the dumbest fucking thing you can do.

If you say so.

http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

Wow - that is an impressive list. People whom we hold at the top of society: Shakespeare, Charles Lindbergh, Andrew Carnegie to modern times: Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, Johnny Depp, Will Smith, James Cameron, Robert De Niro and even Jennifer Aniston - all without college degrees.