Post: #1

I am 30 years old and have been living in NYC for the last few years working in hospitality as a bartender and now bar owner. Due to very unfortunate circumstances concerning legal issues outside of my control, I am going to lose my business. I will be forced to sell sometime in the next few months and unfortunately will recoup nowhere near what I have invested. I will basically be left with very little when all is said and done. I have decided that NYC is no longer where I want to be due to all the regulations, fines, red tape, taxes, etc.

I will have two choices.

I have an opportunity to go back to my home state of New Jersey where I can work in an office job where I had worked before moving to NYC to pursue hospitality. It is in a field that I am not passionate about, in an area of the state that is basically suburbia with very little to do and very few people in the 21-35 age range which is where I fall. The upside is that I would likely be able to earn over 175k annually and my expenses would be relatively low.

The other option I am considering is moving to another major city like Vegas or Austin etc. to continue working in hospitality, either bartending, managing or something related to that, in a more enjoyable work setting and city than I would be experiencing in NJ. The lifestyle in terms of work and social life would certainly be better, but it would be much more difficult to build up my bankroll again.

Basically I would like input into what you guys think is the better path. Do I bite the bullet and deal with a job I don’t like in an area which will be no fun, in order to stack cash? Or do I sacrifice money in order to try to have a more enjoyable lifestyle, with much lower financial expectations?

Post: #2

Just curious, what kind of job is it where you can get 175K/year if your recent experience is working as a bartender and bar owner for the last 5 years?

I know plenty of people who work in New York for supposedly good companies in competitive industries for several years and can't make 175k/year or anything close to that figure.

To answer your question, I would stay in Jersey if I could make that kind of money. Depending on where the job is, you could potentially live very close to NY and reverse commute to work or at least visit the city during weekends. On 175k/year, your can get hotel rooms or airbnb on weekends in Manhattan maybe not every weekend, but often enough to have fun. You would also be paying less income tax (no NY city tax).

Post: #3

It would be a job in the financial field, that's what my original background was prior to moving to NYC and working in hospitality.

Post: #4

I would make sure that you can actually get this salary and they would hire you after a 5 year career gap (from their viewpoint). Even in New York, making this kind of money in the financial field is difficult unless your are a senior software developer, investment banker or manage a team of at least 5-10 people.

Post: #5

That's a tough one.

I think at age 30, I would rather be in Austin or Vegas tending bar than sat in an office in sticks, even at $175k/yr.

I'd go to Austin, and try and start a small business on the side.

Post: #6

I will assume if it's in finance maybe residential mortgages or something along these lines.

If it is in residential mortgages and / or heavily commission based I would advise you to take advantage of favorable interest rates while they are low and you can write mortgages. I've seen both sides of the mortgage market with huge income swings based on prevailing market conditions. If you get caught In a down swing it can be financially crushing unless you have savings / other sources of income.

Either way working on your financial situation for a couple of years to save some money is what I would recommend. You are young and capable. I would do it now and then take some personal time off in the future and travel.
I don't know anyone who wants to tread water financially in their 40s.

NYC has been getting tough for quite a few people I know as my family owns mixed use property in the village. Residential and commercial Rents are up and have been increasing since 2007. It's pushing rent roll higher than many independent businesses can sustain. I have seen good friends of mine get pushed into Brooklyn.

Best of luck.

Post: #7

For the sheer fact that you asked this question, I know deep down that you want to go the lifestyle route and work in hospitality somewhere lively. You just have a conflicting interest because of what society expects of you. I know this because I was, and still am in this position.

You opened your own bar for a reason, and that was because you have a passion for working in that type of environment. No amount of money in the world is going to make up for doing something you dislike because every minute you spend in that job is another minute of your life you're not getting back. Think of it this way- You could spend 5 days a week being a corporate drone then have some fun on weekends if you're lucky, or you could spend 7 days a week (being paid for 5) doing something you enjoy. As long as you have enough money to live in moderate comfort and enjoy yourself, the rest is just worthless paper.

Post: #8

The question you proposed implies that money and lifestyle are exclusive of one another.

The fact that you are 30 and had your own bar (I'm assuming in one of the NYC Burroughs) and actually broke even indicates that you have a penchant for good entrepreneurship. The vast majority of bars lose money including initial investment.

So your bar is getting shut down. Start a new one. Start another business. You will have no problem getting a job in the industry you like in order to make money so you can at least support yourself while working on your next project.

Failing in business is not a bad thing. In fact the more you fail the better you get and its been proven that you increase the potential success of your next venture immensely. Contrast this with marriage, the more times you marry the less likely your next marriage will succeed.

Go for the lifestyle and the money.

Post: #9

(01-31-2016 09:05 PM)Pyrrhic victory Wrote:  I will assume if it's in finance maybe residential mortgages or something along these lines.

If it is in residential mortgages and / or heavily commission based I would advise you to take advantage of favorable interest rates while they are low and you can write mortgages. I've seen both sides of the mortgage market with huge income swings based on prevailing market conditions. If you get caught In a down swing it can be financially crushing unless you have savings / other sources of income.

Either way working on your financial situation for a couple of years to save some money is what I would recommend. You are young and capable. I would do it now and then take some personal time off in the future and travel.
I don't know anyone who wants to tread water financially in their 40s.

NYC has been getting tough for quite a few people I know as my family owns mixed use property in the village. Residential and commercial Rents are up and have been increasing since 2007. It's pushing rent roll higher than many independent businesses can sustain. I have seen good friends of mine get pushed into Brooklyn.

Best of luck.

It's actually nothing to do with mortgages but yes it is a fee/commission based role. It should be much more consistent and stable than the mortgage industry though.

What you mention is definitely a concern of mine, finding myself 10 years from now with not much of a cushion if I should choose to go the lifestyle route.

Post: #10

(01-31-2016 09:36 PM)Adrenaline Wrote:  For the sheer fact that you asked this question, I know deep down that you want to go the lifestyle route and work in hospitality somewhere lively. You just have a conflicting interest because of what society expects of you. I know this because I was, and still am in this position.

You opened your own bar for a reason, and that was because you have a passion for working in that type of environment. No amount of money in the world is going to make up for doing something you dislike because every minute you spend in that job is another minute of your life you're not getting back. Think of it this way- You could spend 5 days a week being a corporate drone then have some fun on weekends if you're lucky, or you could spend 7 days a week (being paid for 5) doing something you enjoy. As long as you have enough money to live in moderate comfort and enjoy yourself, the rest is just worthless paper.

You described perfectly on point. I have realized that the older I get, the less driven I actually am by the idea of trying to earn as much as possible. I think part of it is coming to terms with the idea of having limited financial resources, that will be somewhat tough to adjust to psychologically. I also don't want to make a foolish decision for immediate gratification now that could have a major impact on my options for the future. For example, without building up a significant bankroll, starting another business like the one I had will be much more difficult.

Post: #11

(01-31-2016 10:00 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  The question you proposed implies that money and lifestyle are exclusive of one another.

The fact that you are 30 and had your own bar (I'm assuming in one of the NYC Burroughs) and actually broke even indicates that you have a penchant for good entrepreneurship. The vast majority of bars lose money including initial investment.

So your bar is getting shut down. Start a new one. Start another business. You will have no problem getting a job in the industry you like in order to make money so you can at least support yourself while working on your next project.

Failing in business is not a bad thing. In fact the more you fail the better you get and its been proven that you increase the potential success of your next venture immensely. Contrast this with marriage, the more times you marry the less likely your next marriage will succeed.

Go for the lifestyle and the money.

The issue is that I am not breaking even, I am taking a huge loss due to the fact that I am being forced to sell before having had the chance to recoup even a fraction of my investment. I could earn enough money to support myself continuing in the industry, but it would be extremely difficult to save considering how high expenses are in NYC. Hence the dilemma.

Post: #12

Maybe you can do both if you get outta the U.S.

Post: #13

(01-31-2016 10:00 PM)Rocket13 Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 09:05 PM)Pyrrhic victory Wrote:  I will assume if it's in finance maybe residential mortgages or something along these lines.

If it is in residential mortgages and / or heavily commission based I would advise you to take advantage of favorable interest rates while they are low and you can write mortgages. I've seen both sides of the mortgage market with huge income swings based on prevailing market conditions. If you get caught In a down swing it can be financially crushing unless you have savings / other sources of income.

Either way working on your financial situation for a couple of years to save some money is what I would recommend. You are young and capable. I would do it now and then take some personal time off in the future and travel.
I don't know anyone who wants to tread water financially in their 40s.

NYC has been getting tough for quite a few people I know as my family owns mixed use property in the village. Residential and commercial Rents are up and have been increasing since 2007. It's pushing rent roll higher than many independent businesses can sustain. I have seen good friends of mine get pushed into Brooklyn.

Best of luck.

It's actually nothing to do with mortgages but yes it is a fee/commission based role. It should be much more consistent and stable than the mortgage industry though.

What you mention is definitely a concern of mine, finding myself 10 years from now with not much of a cushion if I should choose to go the lifestyle route.

Ok. Yes. Total misread on my part.

However, the fact that you quit finance, pursued what you love doing, and actually opened a bar in such a competitive environment leads me to believe that you are of the kind that takes risks and is not well suited for office type environments.

I think that you are underestimated yourself a bit based on what you've told me. I know the feeling of being divided; security, predictability, safety vs. unknown, potential destitution, high-risk but high reward.

Besides the glaring misread on my part, I stand by my original opinion.

Post: #14

Here is what I would do. Work the 170k job in new jersey for a year or two and bartend on the weekends. Save up as much money as possible during those 2 years and then use that cash to open up another bar, either do it on the side or full time.

I used to bartend for many years and im sure you're aware, but that lifestyle gets old and it will wear on you. You can't bartend forever.

Post: #15

Uh.......Go for the money. Sure, you're not passionate about it, but it's good money that you'll be able to use to finance a new business in a bit of time if you want to go that route again. Also, aging costs money. You'll be 40 in ten years and you'll be glad you spent time earning money when something goes down and you need the cash. I would only really start worrying about lifestyle once I had a firm financial cushion, really.

if you're pulling down nearly 200k a year at this new job just take the train to NYC a couple of nights a month if you feel so inclined to game and drink in the city. You can get an air bnb for an ok price and enjoy yourself for a few days before heading back home to NJ to work during the week.

I wasn't making anywhere near that amount of money and was still having a blast in NYC once in a while.

Post: #16

Post: #17

Did I chew some crazy pills this morning?

You're starting over at 30 and debating between 175K/year or bartending? Are we talking 175K as a base case or blue sky?

Post: #18

Work for several years at 175k+ and bank.

Move to cheaper/business friendly state like Texas or elsewhere. If feeling more adventurous, go overseas. Use saved money to launch new business.

OR

If you can get the money to re-launch elsewhere after your current business shuts down (not likely if credit shot), I would just move wherever and do it. No point wasting time in a job/lifestyle you hate unless its necessary to meet a greater goal or objective.

Post: #19

Read "Early Retirement Extreme." Make your money, gtfo quick, and then pursue your lifestyle dreams while looking out for new ways to hustle.

If you take ERE principles even halfway to heart, you can walk away in a very reasonable time frame, no debt, very few bills, and enough passive income to cover your basic living costs for the rest of your life.

Making you not rich but at least financially free.

With your skills, surely you can find new ways to hustle cash after that if you want a more cush life, but you'll be able to go where you want, when you want, on your terms and won't be forced to choose between a job and freedom again. Seems worth the minimal time sacrifice to me.

Then again, you're the finance guy - who the hell am I to give you financial advice?

If you want to make it purely a lifestyle question, why the dichotomy between the finance job in a set location or...hospitality? If you can make that kind of cash confined to one place, surely it's possible to land a gig for less but still very respectable pay somewhere else, right? Maybe something a bit more interesting?

Why is this an either/or question at all? Seems to me there's a whole spectrum of other possibilities you've left out.

All that said, I'd probably go for the bankroll on a short term basis with a goal to eventually split.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #20

Take the 175 for a few years.

Consider this- 175 for 3 years with a 7 year vacation for a total earnings of 525, OR 40 a year for 10 years with zero vacation for 400? (After tax they're closer amounts)

Post: #21

Start the finance job. Save money. It will suck, but you need the money. Keep your eyes on the future, also don't neglect your health, exercise will help keep you sane.

When you start make sure to tell them that you already have travel plans for a friends wedding in a few months(give definite dates) and will need 3 days off.

Use those 5 days to go on a pussy trip to Colombia. Having that to look forward to will make swallowing the bitter pill of going back to work easier to swallow.

As for what you do long term, who knows. In some ways it is a good thing to be out of the nightlife business. That lifestyle ages you fast. Especially if you develop a taste for cocaine, which is typical for a lot of people I know in NYC.

Post: #22

Thread closed

This shouldn't even be a question

Money over bitches

Post: #23

It's money v lifestyle not bitches.

Post: #24

What kind of finance job? 175k a year can sound nice, but if you need to drink every night just to forget the bullshit its not worth it. But if it's tolerable, you should take it and change your mentality while doing it. Think about the long term in this job. If you can wake up everyday and tell yourself that in 5 years it will all be worth it because you had the money to restart with a better business idea, you'll be able to do it.

On the other hand, if you can go lifestyle and also pick up some side hustles that while may not make you 175k, but get you maybe half way there, do it.

You sound like you enjoy the bartender/owner gig, definitely think about some overseas countries where initial start up costs are low. If you have a talent and eye for the business, you can do very well for yourself. Remember, almost all entrepreneurs fail on their first adventures. Its the one's that learned from the failure and got better who eventually succeeded.

Post: #25

(02-02-2016 12:50 AM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  It's money v lifestyle not bitches.

I see lifestyle and thought 'ways to meet better girls'

OP can correct me on this if he wants