Post: #1

The article, which is largely a summary of the concepts involved, can be found here:

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015...-possible/

I'm surprised more wasn't made of this at the time - the article dates from December 2015.

The abstract of the article published in a subsidiary of Nature:

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140619...s5145.html

And a longer discussion of the concepts in Scientific American, indicating how the grandfather paradox is resolvable at quantum levels (predating the experiment by one year):

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...r-paradox/

The guts of it:

Quote:Deutsch's quantum solution to the grandfather paradox works something like this:

Instead of a human being traversing a CTC* to kill her ancestor, imagine that a fundamental particle goes back in time to flip a switch on the particle-generating machine that created it. If the particle flips the switch, the machine emits a particle—the particle—back into the CTC; if the switch isn't flipped, the machine emits nothing. In this scenario there is no a priori deterministic certainty to the particle's emission, only a distribution of probabilities.

Deutsch's insight was to postulate self-consistency in the quantum realm, to insist that any particle entering one end of a CTC must emerge at the other end with identical properties. Therefore, a particle emitted by the machine with a probability of one half would enter the CTC and come out the other end to flip the switch with a probability of one half, imbuing itself at birth with a probability of one half of going back to flip the switch. If the particle were a person, she would be born with a one-half probability of killing her grandfather, giving her grandfather a one-half probability of escaping death at her hands—good enough in probabilistic terms to close the causative loop and escape the paradox. Strange though it may be, this solution is in keeping with the known laws of quantum mechanics.

* CTC = Closed timelike curve. Our best physical theories seem to contain no prohibitions on traveling backward through time. The feat should be possible based on Einstein's theory of general relativity, which describes gravity as the warping of spacetime by energy and matter. An extremely powerful gravitational field, such as that produced by a spinning black hole, could in principle profoundly warp the fabric of existence so that spacetime bends back on itself. This would create a "closed timelike curve," or CTC, a loop that could be traversed to travel back in time. Hawking and other cheerless physicists hate the idea of CTCs because in such loops the rules of cause and effect break down.


This is an intriguing proof of the concept in quantum terms, because it continues the idea that quantum mechanics are literally a field where different rules apply, where everything is a matter of probability rather than deterministic events.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #2

The way I understand it is to travel backwards in time would mean finding another "timeline" in which your presence modifies the course of history. Timelines being infinite.

This video helped me wrap my mind around it:

Post: #3

Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

Post: #4

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

That's about the first time I've ever heard of refuting e=mc^2 on the ground that Einstein was a Jew. Would you mind elaborating on why you say general relativity is invalid?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #5

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

Emerging science seems to be disagreeing with you partner.

Post: #6

It is impossible. Things may be brought back to a state or position that they were in before, but you simply can't go backwards in time.

Going fowards in time is another matter. This may be more realistic, but humans would never be able to do it.

Post: #7

And you know what? Super Bowls are a myth too, because fuck Vince Lombardi and the Italian illuminati.

I will readily admit that the concept of time travel just seems to "out there" for me to get my head around, but I guess we take for granted impossible inventions like airplanes, guns and the Internet, too.

Man, what would that even mean for humanity?

Post: #8

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

Post: #9

I'm pretty sure we're all traveling forward in time at this very moment.

Post: #10

(03-30-2016 09:17 AM)britchard Wrote:  It is impossible. Things may be brought back to a state or position that they were in before, but you simply can't go backwards in time.

Not from our current frame of reference, mainly because we experience the world in at best three dimensions with no biological capacity to affect the fourth. That video beast put up is quite illustrative about how the concept of dimensions constrains how we experience the world.

The video talks about two-dimensional beings and how they would experience the world. There's a wonderful little book called Flatland: A Romance Of Many Dimensions, written by an English schoolteacher in 1884 which creates a fictional world out of this idea, it being an account of a Mr A. Square who is, well, a square, and who lives in this two-dimensional world.

One day A. Square is visited by A. Sphere. He terrifies the fuck out of Square because he drops through the plane that is Square's reality, gradually growing in size, and then disappearing entirely when he rises above the plane (remember, Square can only see in two dimensions, so he only perceives a steadily-growing or steadily-decreasing straight line without points in front of him, until, when Sphere ascends off Square's plane, the line disappears entirely).

Sphere has to take a long time to explain to Square how it all works, because they are looking at things from a different frame of reference.

Flatland was more or less ignored on first publication, but people rediscovered it after Einstein published his general theory of relativity. The book was seen as prophetic because it understood how time was connected as a fourth dimension to the three of our world. It's a great analogy for explaining how dimensions work.

Similarly to poor old Square's experience, a being existing in five dimensions would be utterly terrifying to us because he could, at least theoretically, pop in and out of our timelines at will, since we could only perceive him from our three-to-four-dimensional existence.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #11

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

I'm pretty sure that this low post member is merely trolling the thread.

Post: #12

(03-30-2016 08:44 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

That's about the first time I've ever heard of refuting e=mc^2 on the ground that Einstein was a Jew. Would you mind elaborating on why you say general relativity is invalid?

Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard it. There's a whole little tradition of anti-Jewish "physics" produced by cranks.

Post: #13

(03-30-2016 10:41 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard it. There's a whole little tradition of anti-Jewish "physics" produced by cranks.

What is anti-Jewish physics?

Post: #14

(03-30-2016 10:51 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:41 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard it. There's a whole little tradition of anti-Jewish "physics" produced by cranks.

What is anti-Jewish physics?

It's what allegedly kept the Nazis from developing nukes. They didn't want to benefit from "Jew science".

Post: #15

(03-30-2016 11:55 PM)vinman Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:51 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:41 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard it. There's a whole little tradition of anti-Jewish "physics" produced by cranks.

What is anti-Jewish physics?

It's what allegedly kept the Nazis from developing nukes. They didn't want to benefit from "Jew science".

What, specifically, are "anti-Jewish physics"?

That's what was stated: that there was such a thing as "anti-Jewish physics". Not avoidance of "Jewish physics".

Post: #16

My understanding is that traveling backwards is virtually impossible but traveling forward is very possible if you can find a vehicle that can go VERY fast. Essentially, you slow down time for yourself relative to everyone else on the Earth.

The theory being, if you could get a VERY fast spacecraft (like near light speed fast) and orbit the planet; people would age much faster than yourself. Don't ask me why or how; that's all I really remember. But the science is quite clear if I recall; we just need something that can transport us VERY fast and allow us to survive the trip. I think the movie Interstellar sort of touched on the subject.

Post: #17

(03-31-2016 12:51 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  My understanding is that traveling backwards is virtually impossible but traveling forward is very possible if you can find a vehicle that can go VERY fast. Essentially, you slow down time for yourself relative to everyone else on the Earth.

The theory being, if you could get a VERY fast spacecraft (like near light speed fast) and orbit the planet; people would age much faster than yourself. Don't ask me why or how; that's all I really remember. But the science is quite clear if I recall; we just need something that can transport us VERY fast and allow us to survive the trip. I think the movie Interstellar sort of touched on the subject.

Another handy example is from the (underrated) movie Event Horizon. Sam Neill explains how you teleport from one place to another by folding space, so where two places were far apart, they're now side by side and you leap effortlessly across. The David Lynch version of Dune also uses the same concept. How you do it (well, aside from a big dose of melange) is to concentrate gravity in a massive dose so it warps space enough to bring two points together.

Where time travel comes into it is that you don't just fold space when you use gravity in this way; you also might fold time itself, since time and space are connected. It's a bit hard to visualise since we can't see or touch the fourth dimension, but quantum time travel of this kind basically works the same way: you fold the strip of paper so the end is next to the beginning, and hey presto, you step back to your childhood.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #18

(03-30-2016 08:34 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  Time travel, another absurd jewish idea along feminism. I do wish they never made Back to The Future so people can stop wasting time on such an absurd idea.

7 day ban

Post: #19

(03-31-2016 12:51 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  My understanding is that traveling backwards is virtually impossible but traveling forward is very possible if you can find a vehicle that can go VERY fast.

From what I remember, your mass increases greatly as you approach the speed of light. In other words, you could theoretically go "very fast" as long as you were willing to become your own black hole and thought that your tissues could take the mass increase (they couldn't).

Post: #20

(03-30-2016 09:10 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  The video talks about two-dimensional beings and how they would experience the world.

Does 2 dimensional beings exist? No. Does 4 dimensional beings exist? No.

At least not yet.

Speculating to the existence of 4 dimensional beings is no better than speculating about God.

Quantum Mechanics imo, and we had the discussion, is a fraud and many physicists seem to agree. QM seems to be a descriptory mathematical abstraction to explain certain physical phenomenon, but not a rational logical physical theory.

For example, Newtonian gravity theory has been proven false, yet it is a good enough approximation to fire a rocket to the moon.

QM is the same, a good enough approximation to predict some things we don't understand, however the premises of QM which go against classical mechanics - and classical mechanics is the reason you car drives or your plane flies - and are obviously semi-superstitious in nature such as postulating a particle can exist in several places at once or in several times at once.

That is just pure bs and the proof is that if you critize these absurd ideas then you will be viciously attacked by the cult of QM.

Post: #21

(03-31-2016 10:25 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 09:10 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  The video talks about two-dimensional beings and how they would experience the world.

Does 2 dimensional beings exist? No. Does 4 dimensional beings exist? No.

At least not yet.

Speculating to the existence of 4 dimensional beings is no better than speculating about God.

Quantum Mechanics imo, and we had the discussion, is a fraud and many physicists seem to agree. QM seems to be a descriptory mathematical abstraction to explain certain physical phenomenon, but not a rational logical physical theory.

For example, Newtonian gravity theory has been proven false, yet it is a good enough approximation to fire a rocket to the moon.

QM is the same, a good enough approximation to predict some things we don't understand, however the premises of QM which go against classical mechanics - and classical mechanics is the reason you car drives or your plane flies - and are obviously semi-superstitious in nature such as postulating a particle can exist in several places at once or in several times at once.

That is just pure bs and the proof is that if you critize these absurd ideas then you will be viciously attacked by the cult of QM.

I'm not a scientist by any means. Are you saying QM is basically bunk science? If so, I'm a bit disappointed then. I get excited when I read about some of the QM things on science websites and such.

Post: #22

(03-30-2016 03:59 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  I'm surprised more wasn't made of this at the time - the article dates from December 2015.

I'm not surprised. The MSM's bread n butter is the clown show: Just wiggle meaningless shiny shit in front of the masses.

Thanks for calling this out. This and the recent identification of gravity waves are IMO seminal discoveries

Post: #23

(03-31-2016 12:51 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  My understanding is that traveling backwards is virtually impossible but traveling forward is very possible if you can find a vehicle that can go VERY fast. Essentially, you slow down time for yourself relative to everyone else on the Earth.

The theory being, if you could get a VERY fast spacecraft (like near light speed fast) and orbit the planet; people would age much faster than yourself. Don't ask me why or how; that's all I really remember. But the science is quite clear if I recall; we just need something that can transport us VERY fast and allow us to survive the trip. I think the movie Interstellar sort of touched on the subject.

The phenomena is called time dilation. As you come closer to approaching the speed of light, time moves slower relative to outside observers. An explanation that I've heard is that if you were to reflect light between two points within your spaceship, which is traveling parallel to the outside observer, as you approach the speed of light, the distance the light which is bouncing between the two points on your spaceship would travel would be much, much longer than distance which the light that directly reaches the outside observer. I read about it in a book and asked my physics professor after class if he could explain it in a simpler way, and he said that's the way he was taught. Graphically, it might be described this way:





As you reach significant percentages of the speed of light (>90%) you would age considerably slower relative to people back on Earth.

Post: #24

Interesting, this basically sounds like the premise of the movie Interstellar in which the main character travels to some far solar system, and eventually his kids age much faster then he does. Also, I recommend watching that movie for the science fiction aficionados here.

Post: #25

(03-31-2016 12:14 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:55 PM)vinman Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:51 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:41 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard it. There's a whole little tradition of anti-Jewish "physics" produced by cranks.

What is anti-Jewish physics?

It's what allegedly kept the Nazis from developing nukes. They didn't want to benefit from "Jew science".

What, specifically, are "anti-Jewish physics"?

That's what was stated: that there was such a thing as "anti-Jewish physics". Not avoidance of "Jewish physics".

Actually the principle of an anti-jew is a well-established principle in quantum theory. Anti-jews are essentially jews moving backwards in time, and thus we perceive them as having opposite electric charge. For example if you rubbed a balloon it would repel from an anti-jewfro. The practical result of all of this is that if a jew and an anti-jew come into contact with each other they mutually annihilate and convert the sum of their mass-energies into a burst of gamma rays. Such an event would be catastrophic given the combined mass of two ninety pound jews converted into photons could vaporize the Earth.