Post: #1

So I recently read one of Jon Anthony's(http://www.masculinedevelopment.com/) post that was linked from RoK (http://www.returnofkings.com/83568/how-a...-decadence) and I found a lot that I liked from it. One of the lines drew my attention, "KEEP YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH SHUT: Until you are completely financially independent, DO NOT risk getting fired. I am telling you from personal experience, it is not worth it."

Here's my question: What do you all think of this? For whatever reason it reminds me a lot of the scene in the NT where Jesus asks the young ruler to leave all of his possessions and he isn't willing to do it and leaves with great sadness. Obviously, RoK isn't the Bible and Roosh isn't the Christ. However, the movement that he has started has truly turned my life around: I've gone from the dead while living guy with 6-figure salary, good game guy stats, pillar of community type etc to the guy that is now hustling to become financially dependent, fit, red pill chomping and crypto Roosh/Trump libertarian promoter. As Nassim Nicholas Taleb says I'm looking to make enough "fuck you money" to be able to support Roosh and the Tribe publically. But until then, what?

I'm in the system and I know that a lot of guys on this Forum are too. They are financially stable and work for either the fed gov, a major corporation, or University. Folks knowing we support Roosh would get us harassed or fired. What's our strategy? Donations only? Writing articles?

As an aside, the fed gov, Fortune 500 companies (to a growing degree), and Universities ARE the home of SJWs because they are those that are most dependent on taxpayer dollars (they couldn't make it on their own anymore due to reliance on grants or corporate welfare). For example, the American Psychological Association has an actual Division 51 (http://division51.net/) Society for the Psychological Study of Men and Masculinity and it's whole aim, at least under current leadership, is for a bunch of clinical psychologists and others to promote "beta philosophy" but under the guise of science. (They aren't a very successful division and much of it ends up being a circle jerk between the same authors but if you've read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand you will see that many times, especially with government help these types of orgs spread, grow, and strengthen off the public teat.) How do we combat/battle them without bringing their articles/views into more attention than they are worth without sidelining ourselves from the battle?

I'd be interested in hearing from dudes that are on the "inside" of the establishment too and struggling with these issues or have ideas for how to be better saboteurs and then open warriors.

One last thing: By way of encouragement, there ARE many current or would be crypto-supporters of Roosh and the neomasculine revolution if they knew how to get involved and if I was willing to share with them my journey, but often don't for fear that it will "out" myself at the office. Currently, I do it obliquely just mentioning writings of Ayn Rand or Hayek.

Post: #2

You don't need to be an overt actor for good. You can definitely be subversive.

Whatever your job is, actively promote red pill ideas clothed in sheepskin. Use your influence to slowly turn the tide towards ideas that are beneficial for us.

We have people like Roosh who took a step out from the grasp to take an overt stand. People like us with jobs and families to feed have to be more subtle. A million little guys making a small difference can add up.

I personally enjoy my subversive thinking in the midsts of such overt degeneracy. They all like me and for whatever reason think I am one of them.

Post: #3

Good thoughts, man. Any specific strategies that you currently use in your work/endeavors? Any that have been particularly successful? I think you are right about them when you said, "I personally enjoy my subversive thinking in the midsts of such overt degeneracy. They all like me and for whatever reason think I am one of them." Same here. I'm basically a part of the passive SJW set during the workday, just gently tilting convos to the alt right and then an alt right activist in all of the happy hours with neighbors and buds from the office/church/hobby groups.

Post: #4

I am working overtly to change my organization, but I can do so because the SJWs overplayed their hand in a certain area, and everybody knows it. There will be a limit to what I can accomplish, and at that point I will have to shut up or risk my career.

Post: #5

Sounds a bit like academia. I hear ya.

Post: #6

Other thoughts, guys? Men that have either transitioned to open support or tried and got pushed back? Or strategies when you are IN the system?

Post: #7

Do not discuss politics or religion at work EVER.

Post: #8

While in the men's room at work, tape up a few flyers with links to RVF. You can make an impact without losing your job. Just make sure not to get caught.

Post: #9

Be a smuggler. See Martin Scorsese's documentary on American Cinema. Directors who used commercial brainless vehicles to get across their unique vision of life.

We should all ask ourselves: what is the best role to assume where I can use my strengths to do the most good?

The culture war needs the Roosh's and the Mike CF's who use their real name and face. They also need the anonymous billionaires. They need the fanboys. And they need the smugglers.

The vast majority of people are persuaded by emotion. At the same time, a small minority of intelligent movers and shakers can shift the popular zeitgeist. One needs to make appeals to both groups.

Logical, reasoned, in-depth analysis will appeal to the movers. Social proof will appeal to the majority.

What better social proof than to be someone who never courts any controversy, and just appears to be a normal dude?

Two more angles:

1. How much good can you do from a jail cell? For instance, I believe taxation is theft and all state action is immoral. Yet I still pay my taxes (the lowest damn amount possible).

2. Catcher In The Rye quote: "The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one."

Post: #10

Well, I have reached the end of this road faster than anticipated. I'll work on a post to describe the experience in as much detail as is safe.

Post: #11

(04-30-2016 03:47 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Be a smuggler. See Martin Scorsese's documentary on American Cinema. Directors who used commercial brainless vehicles to get across their unique vision of life.

We should all ask ourselves: what is the best role to assume where I can use my strengths to do the most good?

The culture war needs the Roosh's and the Mike CF's who use their real name and face. They also need the anonymous billionaires. They need the fanboys. And they need the smugglers.

The vast majority of people are persuaded by emotion. At the same time, a small minority of intelligent movers and shakers can shift the popular zeitgeist. One needs to make appeals to both groups.

Logical, reasoned, in-depth analysis will appeal to the movers. Social proof will appeal to the majority.

What better social proof than to be someone who never courts any controversy, and just appears to be a normal dude?

Two more angles:

1. How much good can you do from a jail cell? For instance, I believe taxation is theft and all state action is immoral. Yet I still pay my taxes (the lowest damn amount possible).

2. Catcher In The Rye quote: "The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one."

Really great thoughts.

Post: #12

I am being essentially forced out of my job right now. It's not likely that I will experience economic hardship because my skills are in demand, but the circumstances are stressful nonetheless.

The overall mistake I made was believing that the liberal/progressive diversity policy group in our organization was at least willing to engage in good faith, even if we never fully came to agreement.

While I was trying to help them understand why "the majority" (their euphemism for "men") were not responding to policy initiatives, especially after a recent high profile incident, they were just collecting ammunition.

The whisper campaign has been going on for several weeks now, and today I learned of a false accusation of misconduct against me. The accuser withdrew just before it would have gone to a formal investigation, and thus their name revealed. Sound familiar?

I have let the relevant people in my organization know that I categorically deny any wrongdoing and will respond forcefully to any formal accusation of misconduct -- as a result it appears that nothing negative will be placed in my record.

I am good at my job and expect that this will not follow me. Still, my reputation in the organization is tarnished -- except among the skeptics, a few of whom are supporting me. I will be looking over my shoulder for the next few weeks as I make a graceful exit.

The lessons I take from this are (1) do not ever trust "tolerant" progressives and (2) when ever possible, choose action over voice. I should have simply left for another job but instead risked getting burned.

If you are supporting a family or have no other career options, do not ever contradict the narrative. Heresy is not tolerated.

Post: #13

quit and do what you really want

Post: #14

Fully intend to.

Post: #15

MidJack I just saw your post. wow. That's fucking crazy. Very sorry that you are going through this. Still you sound like a brave guy and I had something similar recently happen to me at the office. Thankfully I had the support of leadership as the person was slime. Same deal though. Lodged an informal complaint and believed. then when asked to come up with the evidence she withdrew it. and then because she fucked up in other ways she was fired. but some scary moments.

Post: #16

STFU at work about politics, masculinity, "red pill" and any other controversial subjects. Focus on the job, collect paycheck, get paid as much as possible, save as much as possible and GTFO as soon as possible.

With a decent job and high savings rate, it is possible to get out in 10 years or even less if you are lucky. I don't like the term "fuck you money", because many guys use it too liberally these days, like "I have saved 20K, that's my fuck you money". However, once you have saved enough to last a few years without a job, you can take a lot more risks, such as quitting a job you don't like and starting your own location independent business, even failing a couple of times and getting back on your feet.

Focus is very important. Being a man, in my opinion, is about focusing on and achieving your goals, not about arguing with feminists and white knights, especially at work. Actions speak louder than words. Bought a fancy car for 50K because your deserve it? Good job, that's a couple more of your best years having to deal with feminist cunts and keep your mouth shut at work instead of living on a tropical island (or in Kiev if you prefer) and not having to answer to anyone.

Post: #17

(05-13-2016 11:12 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  STFU at work about politics, masculinity, "red pill" and any other controversial subjects. Focus on the job, collect paycheck, get paid as much as possible, save as much as possible and GTFO as soon as possible.

With a decent job and high savings rate, it is possible to get out in 10 years or even less if you are lucky. I don't like the term "fuck you money", because many guys use it too liberally these days, like "I have saved 20K, that's my fuck you money". However, once you have saved enough to last a few years without a job, you can take a lot more risks, such as quitting a job you don't like and starting your own location independent business, even failing a couple of times and getting back on your feet.

Focus is very important. Being a man, in my opinion, is about focusing on and achieving your goals, not about arguing with feminists and white knights, especially at work. Actions speak louder than words. Bought a fancy car for 50K because your deserve it? Good job, that's a couple more of your best years having to deal with feminist cunts and keep your mouth shut at work instead of living on a tropical island (or in Kiev if you prefer) and not having to answer to anyone.

This is pretty much what I've been following since 2004. Sure, any job or workplace will always have misery. I have nothing in common with my co-workers so I don't bother associating or socializing with them.

My plan is to either start my own part-time small business in the USA or become a freelance web programmer to live in another country.

This all comes down to the elections in the fall so I'm hopeful for Trump to win.

Post: #18

When you take the red pill you have to become a 'grayman' in places where such thinking is forbidden. A grayman is a term currently use in the survival/prepper community as someone who blends into the environment, not bring attendance to himself. In the our screw up culture, its not showing unnecessary revelation of red pill knowledge or game to those maginias or progressives still plug in to the reality of the matrix. Being a grayman is important if you are not 'antifragile', like Roosh or Mike C who can defend or thrive on his attacks my his enemies.

Post: #19

(05-12-2016 04:40 PM)MidJack Wrote:  I am being essentially forced out of my job right now. It's not likely that I will experience economic hardship because my skills are in demand, but the circumstances are stressful nonetheless.

The overall mistake I made was believing that the liberal/progressive diversity policy group in our organization was at least willing to engage in good faith, even if we never fully came to agreement.

While I was trying to help them understand why "the majority" (their euphemism for "men") were not responding to policy initiatives, especially after a recent high profile incident, they were just collecting ammunition.

The whisper campaign has been going on for several weeks now, and today I learned of a false accusation of misconduct against me. The accuser withdrew just before it would have gone to a formal investigation, and thus their name revealed. Sound familiar?

I have let the relevant people in my organization know that I categorically deny any wrongdoing and will respond forcefully to any formal accusation of misconduct -- as a result it appears that nothing negative will be placed in my record.

I am good at my job and expect that this will not follow me. Still, my reputation in the organization is tarnished -- except among the skeptics, a few of whom are supporting me. I will be looking over my shoulder for the next few weeks as I make a graceful exit.

The lessons I take from this are (1) do not ever trust "tolerant" progressives and (2) when ever possible, choose action over voice. I should have simply left for another job but instead risked getting burned.

If you are supporting a family or have no other career options, do not ever contradict the narrative. Heresy is not tolerated.

Good luck in whatever you do next. This is over unfortunately. If you manage to stay it will be a non-stop battle forever. These SJWs in all forms have nothing else to do except continue their holocaust against anyone who dares speak differently.

Post: #20

Try to keep in mind that sometimes you can boost yourself up by hacking everyone else off at the knees. Traditionally this is a dishonourable method, but considering the opposition I frankly don't give a shit.

If you're surrounded by SJWs then don't out yourself. The outcome will be entirely predictable. Instead use parlour games to pit the strongest of them against each other.

SJWs are vicious creatures and will cannibalise their own as soon as one of the enemy. Use your smarts. Cut the strongest. Make them bleed and watch the sharks circle. Repeat the process. Plant evidence. Cover your tracks. Never allow the trail of evidence and rumour to reach your doorstep. Be sure to keep the nastiest tricks up your sleeve when promotions roll around. Wait for the selection process to wind up then covertly drop a bomb on the affirmative action prospect, ensuring your own promotion.

There are two ways to win a war. One is to build faster than your enemy. The other is to destroy faster than your enemy.

Post: #21

(05-14-2016 09:20 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Try to keep in mind that sometimes you can boost yourself up by hacking everyone else off at the knees. Traditionally this is a dishonourable method, but considering the opposition I frankly don't give a shit.

If you're surrounded by SJWs then don't out yourself. The outcome will be entirely predictable. Instead use parlour games to pit the strongest of them against each other.

SJWs are vicious creatures and will cannibalise their own as soon as one of the enemy. Use your smarts. Cut the strongest. Make them bleed and watch the sharks circle. Repeat the process. Plant evidence. Cover your tracks. Never allow the trail of evidence and rumour to reach your doorstep. Be sure to keep the nastiest tricks up your sleeve when promotions roll around. Wait for the selection process to wind up then covertly drop a bomb on the affirmative action prospect, ensuring your own promotion.

There are two ways to win a war. One is to build faster than your enemy. The other is to destroy faster than your enemy.

Sounds great in theory (and is a very worthwhile method when it is worth fighting for) but in the context of American Academia it may also be a way to end up hospitalized with a heart attack and waste years of your life.

Post: #22

Talking about red pill shit at work has to be the dumbest and most financially suicidal thing you can do. You have to be a gray man at your job.

"Gee, all this gender politics stuff, it just goes right over my head, man." - MikeCF

Post: #23

I'm sure this wasn't directed at me specifically, but still I want to clarify my situation. It's not as if I was sitting in the office yelling "Hey Ted isn't feminism stupid?!" or something like that. I was working with our diversity committee in an official capacity with all requisite professionalism. Apparently other committee members were provoked by my suggestion that "white men versus everyone else" is a bad premise for policy development. They're not really interested in doing what is best for the organization, just furthering their progressive religion.

(05-14-2016 10:42 AM)eatthishomie Wrote:  Talking about red pill shit at work has to be the dumbest and most financially suicidal thing you can do. You have to be a gray man at your job.

"Gee, all this gender politics stuff, it just goes right over my head, man." - MikeCF

Post: #24

(05-14-2016 08:54 AM)Thersites Wrote:  When you take the red pill you have to become a 'grayman' in places where such thinking is forbidden. A grayman is a term currently use in the survival/prepper community as someone who blends into the environment, not bring attendance to himself. In the our screw up culture, its not showing unnecessary revelation of red pill knowledge or game to those maginias or progressives still plug in to the reality of the matrix. Being a grayman is important if you are not 'antifragile', like Roosh or Mike C who can defend or thrive on his attacks my his enemies.

I really like the reference to Nassim Nicholas Taleb here and his trilogy, "fooled by randomness," "the black swan," and "antifragile." these should be core readings by guys in this forum and eventually form part of the RVF cannon.

Post: #25

Also, I will say in way of follow-up that after the little scare with the false accusation I did two things. 1) I picked up an insurance policy aimed at protecting management from the shenanigans of employees accusing them of rubbish like sexual harassment with the policy reimbursing me for legal costs and 2) I met with attorney and set up a PLLC so that if I did find myself kicked to the curb I could hit the ground running with a private corp. Right now I'm looking for the right CPA to set things up financially prudently. Overall, I think that the experience was a swift kick in the balls that not only is teaching me to wear a fucking cup to protect myself from these things but to grow and emerge stronger from them by setting myself up to harvest other streams of income and protection. No rocket science. But just a shot of adrenaline and motivation.