Post: #1

Anyone else seen this video on youtube lately?

Post: #2

Haven't seen the video.

My view is not of the red pill types who think all marriage/relationships should be shunned.

My view is more or less similar to Rollo Tomassi's (who is married with kids), that going into a marriage or relationship with a naïve "Disney" movie idea about being happily ever after, or making it the sole purpose of your existence is a foolish decision.

I also don't buy into societal or religious pressure to "get married and have kids" or believe it's the only way to have a purpose in life; even in the Bible for example Jesus himself was allegedly unmarried and Paul the Apostle said it would be ideal for a man to do without a woman.

Therefore I have a hard time understanding the arrogance of churches who believe they have the authority to tell a man he's "obligated" to find a woman; as that pretty much contradicts what's found in scripture to begin with (not to mention it leaves out people who aren't biologically able to have children to begin with).

Post: #3

Children.

Title of video is an instant loser.

Post: #4

The facts of the video are true, no doubt. But I don't agree with the reasoning. Yes married men will work harder, be more risk averse and be more focussed. That doesn't mean that marriage benefits the MAN. If a man can find the motivation to work harder and focus while staying single then he has it made. We all understand that.

Post: #5

Gotta agree.
This shit is the real deal.

Post: #6

As a Neomasculine man, I don't even see any benefit.

Sure, one might say "children" as Stalin has (& came first to mind myself) however the marriage contract only benefits the spouse & the children. The man does not benefit in any way at all directly. He may receive a residual benefit by providing a stable platform for his children to launch, but this benefit is an indirect one & increasingly likely to not eventuate despite said marriage contract given all the ways women can pass the buck on their side of the "contract" these days.

What are the reasons men get married? Well as I said to my ex, here's the deal...

1. Don't get fat
2. Be pleasant
3. AND FUCK YOUR MAN!

That's it. That's all we ask & we will move mountains to put up with all the other bullshit if we can be assured of those 3 things. It's not that hard is it?

To which she answered "No. It really isn't."

How many of you out there can honestly say with a high degree of satisfaction that the above 3 points will be adhered to once the ring is on? I sure as hell can't, & that alone is reason enough to not fence oneself in.



Marriage these days is a fucking farce. It is literally just a piece of paper that delineates the males indentured servitude.

If a modern form of slavery is what will make you happy (& don't forget, to many people with an XY pairing - I won't call them men - it is), I can think of other ways to achieve this with much less bullshit & impact on the lives of others.

Military.

Post: #7

The usual shit that manhood is affirmed by stepping up and working for a woman.

Of course married men get promoted more as employers know they have the stability of someone who has burnt his bridges.

Of course married men work more hours - work horses tend to work more than wild horses.

I laughed out loud about wives being a motivating factor to work. No shit Sherlock!

The reason the average US man's marriage age has increased from 23 to 29 is because 18-23 year old women that 23 year old men used to marry have retreated from the marriage market to pursue college, career, debt_based consumerism and carousel sex. A 23 year old married man does not receive a married man's wage as before - this has been transferred to maternity pay.

It this age group of women at their peak SMVs demanded marriage, prolonged adolescence, the hook up culture and widespread spinsterhood would end tomorrow.

Post: #8

(05-21-2016 10:31 PM)EDantes Wrote:  Therefore I have a hard time understanding the arrogance of churches who believe they have the authority to tell a man he's "obligated" to find a woman; as that pretty much contradicts what's found in scripture to begin with (not to mention it leaves out people who aren't biologically able to have children to begin with).

Can you cite where in the new testament Paul says this?

I'm genuinely curious where you got this because I don't remember reading that.

Post: #9

1 Corinthians 7:8 Wrote:Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.

However forbidding someone to marry is another matter:

1 Timothy 4:2-3 Wrote:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Post: #10

(05-22-2016 01:57 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

1 Corinthians 7:8 Wrote:Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.

However forbidding someone to marry is another matter:

1 Timothy 4:2-3 Wrote:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

You need to quote the whole passage to get the meaning:

Quote:Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion

.

Paul is saying if you're going to be unmarried it is best to remain sexually abstinate. If you want sex then get married because it's better to be married than burn in lust. I don't think any of us here prefer that.

I do understand EDantes' argument in its spirit (yuk yuk yuk). I've got into an argument with an evangelical pastor in the past pushing this stuff and essentially told them women need to hold up their end of the bargain in Corinthains which they don't

Partly the reason i was "held at arms length" was because I killed the argument by saying "if I need to man up, women need to woman down and get back in the kitchen."

Post: #11

(05-22-2016 02:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Paul is saying if you're going to be unmarried it is best to remain sexually abstinate. If you want sex then get married because it's better to be married than burn in lust. I don't think any of us here prefer that.

All men want sex. Mostly because its how we express & recieve intimacy.

How many married men have reported MORE sex after getting married? Not to mention the kid factor.

I'd wager a few, but also that stereotypes exist for a reason.

A man should not be getting married on the false belief it will bring him more sex (i.e. intimacy). It won't. The only thing that's gonna do that is game. Persistent fucking game. Day in & day out. It has to become a way of being.

Most men aren't up to the challenge.

Post: #12

Incredibly selective view in the video. I'm sure there are plenty of men like Robin Williams who might disagree that marriage leads to a better life.

PragerU is a right-wing outlet, so I can understand why they make this propaganda, but I hope they've got a video about why men are avoiding it -- instead of just this condescending "be a man" attitude.

Post: #13

I like how the video doesn't take into account that men might choose to earn less after divorce because they don't want to work 70 hours to earn 35 hours worth, or earn 100k+ just to wave bye bye to half of it.

I like how the video focuses completely on how much a man earns, the call to responsibility etc (traditional male roles) while coming from a culture that enables women to do whatever they damn want.

Where's the studies that declare marriages improve women? Oh wait...

Also, I can't help but wonder if "Tommy" got cucked while he was in the military. "Get married and join the military so your new wife has a high potential for infidelity! You'll be a better man for it."

Is this guy married? Does he feel as much of a man as his video content suggests? Or does he feel the slow approaching death of his testes, as his wife refuses to have sex with a boring, plump, sociologist simp. But hey at least he's adhering to social expectations, right?

Post: #14

(05-22-2016 02:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I do understand EDantes' argument in its spirit (yuk yuk yuk). I've got into an argument with an evangelical pastor in the past pushing this stuff and essentially told them women need to hold up their end of the bargain in Corinthains which they don't

Partly the reason i was "held at arms length" was because I killed the argument by saying "if I need to man up, women need to woman down and get back in the kitchen."

I don't disagree with you for a moment. I also suspect that Paul's Corinthian audience included teenagers who would have been considering marriage and young widows who would have been contemplating re-marriage.

In Paul's day women would have got married within a few years of their first period. The men they got married to would either have been established men or young men at the peak of their sex drives. This would have led to life time bonding and high investment parenting.

Cuckservative Christianity has not been able to offer men any advice about what to do during their 20s while women in their peer groups delay marriage and put college, career and the carousel first - apart from to build up resources and wait for women to reach their late 20s when they start to want to sell their declining stocks.

I have heard some shocking stories of hypergamy by alpha widows once they locked down the naïve Christian beta and secured her pension.

I'm not MGTOW as I hope I will get married but I think it unlikely because I reached 35 without it but my experience on a Christian dating site when I was looking for a potential wife put me very close to the MGTOW precipice.

The reply rate was even lower than on okc or tinder and most if not all of the interest that I received was from older women with children who were mothers of bastards, 'separated' or 'divorced' i.e. still married according to traditional Christian teaching.

Post: #15

Like General Stalin said, the title sucks. Shaming into submission at its worst.

Regarding marriage, I agree with the sentiment that nowadays marriage sucks, but I also view this from another perspective. My uncle got married three times, yet he failed to have children in each marriage. His second wife had a miscarriage and then decided she didn't want children, the third wife was too old and couldn't give birth; I don't remember what happened to the first one. None of these marriages brought him any good. He's old, sick and bitter, and his mental condition (he suffers from depressions) is bringing his current wife insane - she looks so battered and drained that I sometimes believe he'll outlive her by at least a decade, although he's the one suffering from Parkinson's disease.

His life story taught me several things:

1) Marriage isn't the shiny and wonderful thing it's advertised to be. It's usually an average deal. You get something, but you also lose something. Sometimes it can be good, and sometimes it can be a nightmare.

2) If you want to get married, choose carefully. Marriage has nothing to do with love; love is way overrated. A man who marries purely out of love is a fool. The characteristics that make a girl a suitable candidate for a wife are very objective an they can be easily spotted during the initial period of dating. It may sound funny, but choosing a wife is not much different from buying a cow at a farmer's market. Or a car.

3) The most interesting thing, which I haven't seen being mentioned in discussions regarding marriage, and which is a bit depressing:

Sickness and death.

As I mentioned above, my uncle has Parkinson's disease. He's just on the verge of losing the ability to walk. He's a bitter, disgruntled old man, and I believe it has a lot to do with him being childless. Now imagine how would his life look like if he had no wife to take care of him? He'd probably be in a nursing home, sitting there like a herb with almost no-one to visit him, and waiting for his death.

Another example - my mother has been battling a tumor for over five years now. She's a single mom, never married, and aside from my uncle, with whom she has an uneasy relationship, I'm the only piece of family she has left. Guess how does her life look like now? She's old, sick, depressive, has almost no one to talk with and share her feelings. She can take care of herself for now, but this is also slowly coming to an end. You can't possibly imagine her demeanor and outlook on life; she's like a walking depressant. A lot of her pain would be alleviated had she married in her youth and had more children. All of her health problems aside, now she'd at least have someone to talk to, or maybe have the joy of seeing a grandchild or two.

Now, why am I telling you all of this? It's because (I guess) a lot of arguments against marriage come from people who've never had to deal with people who were both severely ill and unmarried/childless at the same time. Yes it's easy to frown upon marriage when you're young and healthy. But when sickness and death come knocking at your door, things change a lot.

I personally intend to marry some day. My motivation is to have children and leave something behind on this world, and also to have someone to take care of me if I ever become unable to do so by myself. There's no way I'm allowing myself to endure what my mother and uncle have to endure now.

To conclude, I don't want this to be taken as an argument of the type "Get married now or you'll end up a bitter, lonely, old man". No. That's not how life works, and it's also an example of man-shaming which I'm against.

I consider this more like a matter of probability and considering options you've never considered before. "Yes, modern marriage sucks. If I get married, there's always a chance I won't be happy with my decision. But on the other hand, If I never marry, there's always a chance I'll get sick and regret my decision when I'm old". That's how life works - you weigh different options and make decisions accordingly.

Post: #16

(05-22-2016 03:59 AM)Khan Wrote:  Like General Stalin said, the title sucks. Shaming into submission at its worst.

Regarding marriage, I agree with the sentiment that nowadays marriage sucks, but I also view this from another perspective. My uncle got married three times, yet he failed to have children in each marriage. His second wife had a miscarriage and then decided she didn't want children, the third wife was too old and couldn't give birth; I don't remember what happened to the first one. None of these marriages brought him any good. He's old, sick and bitter, and his mental condition (he suffers from depressions) is bringing his current wife insane - she looks so battered and drained that I sometimes believe he'll outlive her by at least a decade, although he's the one suffering from Parkinson's disease.

His life story taught me several things:

1) Marriage isn't the shiny and wonderful thing it's advertised to be. It's usually an average deal. You get something, but you also lose something. Sometimes it can be good, and sometimes it can be a nightmare.

2) If you want to get married, choose carefully. Marriage has nothing to do with love; love is way overrated. A man who marries purely out of love is a fool. The characteristics that make a girl a suitable candidate for a wife are very objective an they can be easily spotted during the initial period of dating. It may sound funny, but choosing a wife is not much different from buying a cow at a farmer's market. Or a car.

3) The most interesting thing, which I haven't seen being mentioned in discussions regarding marriage, and which is a bit depressing:

Sickness and death.

As I mentioned above, my uncle has Parkinson's disease. He's just on the verge of losing the ability to walk. He's a bitter, disgruntled old man, and I believe it has a lot to do with him being childless. Now imagine how would his life look like if he had no wife to take care of him? He'd probably be in a nursing home, sitting there like a herb with almost no-one to visit him, and waiting for his death.

Another example - my mother has been battling a tumor for over five years now. She's a single mom, never married, and aside from my uncle, with whom she has an uneasy relationship, I'm the only piece of family she has left. Guess how does her life look like now? She's old, sick, depressive, has almost no one to talk with and share her feelings. She can take care of herself for now, but this is also slowly coming to an end. You can't possibly imagine her demeanor and outlook on life; she's like a walking depressant. A lot of her pain would be alleviated had she married in her youth and had more children. All of her health problems aside, now she'd at least have someone to talk to, or maybe have the joy of seeing a grandchild or two.

Now, why am I telling you all of this? It's because (I guess) a lot of arguments against marriage come from people who've never had to deal with people who were both severely ill and unmarried/childless at the same time. Yes it's easy to frown upon marriage when you're young and healthy. But when sickness and death come knocking at your door, things change a lot.

I personally intend to marry some day. My motivation is to have children and leave something behind on this world, and also to have someone to take care of me if I ever become unable to do so by myself. There's no way I'm allowing myself to endure what my mother and uncle have to endure now.

To conclude, I don't want this to be taken as an argument of the type "Get married now or you'll end up a bitter, lonely, old man". No. That's not how life works, and it's also an example of man-shaming which I'm against.

I consider this more like a matter of probability and considering options you've never considered before. "Yes, modern marriage sucks. If I get married, there's always a chance I won't be happy with my decision. But on the other hand, If I never marry, there's always a chance I'll get sick and regret my decision when I'm old". That's how life works - you weigh different options and make decisions accordingly.

Pretty selfish to get children for the primary reason of having someone take care of you in old age, imho. It reminds me of the "I gave birth to you so you owe me X, Y, Z" that narcissistic and sociopathic parents like to throw around. It's not true, a child is not indebted to their parents for their existence.

If you are worried about being taken care of at old, save money so you can pay a professional if need be.

Post: #17

In the normal course of business, would you sign a contract in which:

1. The terms are not made clear in advance
2. Any dispute will most likely be adjudicated in favour of the other party
3. The other party can break the contract at will and not only suffer no consequences, but be rewarded for it
4. The terms can be changed retrospectively by a third party

No? Thought not. So why get married?

Post: #18

Bridesmaids.

Every committed pervert should be actively encouraging his friends to marry girls based on the attractiveness of their friends. Weddings put the world into its proper alignment for a few hours, when girls do away with all artifice and throw themselves lustily into acts of self-validation behind the catering tent at the faintest encouragement.

Post: #19

There isn't much incentive for men to marry anymore. Modern women just don't have the same value as women of previous generations.

It would probably be easier to find Bigfoot than to find an attractive girl who's a virgin nowadays. Maybe this sounds insignificant but not when you factor in the more partners a girl's had, the less likely she'll be able to bond with one man. A greater difficulty in bonding increases the chances of future divorce. As we all know, the courts are notorious for their bias against men likely resulting in paying great financial penalties (also known as 'divorce rape').

Anybody else remember reading that article on ROK several months back -- the one about how a woman can incorporate into her own body DNA from her previous sex partners' semen, modifying her own DNA and by extension that of her future offspring? If true, any hope you have to father a child will essentially make it impossible to avoid getting cucked by all the dudes your girl's fucked before. Not a pleasant thought.

Many modern women don't know how to cook and aren't interested in learning how. They don't want to clean, don't know how to sew, etc. Hell, some don't even want children. Yet a man is still supposed to do all the things men are traditionally known for in a marriage (e.g. keep a job with enough earnings to support a wife and children, possess some degree of Mr. Fix-it/handyman skills, etc.).

The current marriage statistics reveal 50 percent of marriages end in divorce with women filing in 70 percent of cases -- and thanks to "no-fault" divorce laws, women don't even need a reason to file anymore. As for the remaining 50 percent who stay married -- how many of those couples do you think are "happily married"? It's a sobering thought.

In the past, it may have been worth finding a woman of virtue, settling down and having children with her. Now, thanks to feminism such women are in dangerously short supply, if they even still exist. I imagine marrying a modern woman would probably feel a whole lot like buying an old, beat-up used car for a new car's sticker price. It's a lousy investment.

Post: #20

I was married for 23 years. There were pros and cons

Pros
Having kids is the greatest experience of your life. You finally "get" why you are here. You will do anything and everything you can to provide and protect for them. You also get to re-live your youth though your kids (Disney World, camping, skating, high school stuff, etc). Now, as adults, my kids are even more a positive force in my life.

You actually do get more respect in the community for being married. People are more likely to depend on you and do business with you. You also connect with other adults (who also have children) in a different way. You meet and know the finest people in the community.

You do things you never thought you would like, like gardening (which I am a master gardener now)

Its always nice to have someone to come home to.

Cons
Your sex life drops of precipitously after the first few years, especially after the first kid. Trust me, she will get fat.

You get tired of fucking the same woman

She will become a bitch, take it to the bank.

She will take all of your shit in a divorce. But, no matter. You don't need all the crap to be happy. I had a 3800 sq ft McMansion. Now, I live in a 600 sq ft apartment and I love it. As long as your cock still works, everything is good.


I came out of my divorce not bitter. I am looking forward to the rest of my life. I will explore the world now. Fortunately for me, I now can go to South America on a regular basis and fuck some of the most beautiful women in the world. Next stop for me is Thailand and Philippines. I am happier now than ever. I raised a nice family and now I get to have some fun.

Don't skip the marriage and kids, its fun and can be great.

Post: #21

What, marriage is still a thing ?

Post: #22

I've written this before on the forum, if it wasn't for the current state of affairs with women yielding all the power in marriage I'd probably be married. However, I just can't fathom losing half my stuff and living the life of the married men I know. Most married guys I know are pretty miserable after a few years, could I be an outlier? Doubt it, but it's possible.

The psychological effect he mentions in the video are real. I've noticed that when I was in a LTR with a girl I really cared about, I was more productive and thought differently than when I was single. My energy was more focused, I felt more relaxed, it's hard to describe. When I first had this happen to me I thought it was because my sex needs were taken care of. But I don't get the same feeling when I'm just getting laid or have a consistent friend with benefits, so there's something else going on.

Still though in the West I wouldn't do it.

Post: #23

(05-22-2016 05:06 AM)HenryHill Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 03:59 AM)Khan Wrote:  Like General Stalin said, the title sucks. Shaming into submission at its worst.

Regarding marriage, I agree with the sentiment that nowadays marriage sucks, but I also view this from another perspective. My uncle got married three times, yet he failed to have children in each marriage. His second wife had a miscarriage and then decided she didn't want children, the third wife was too old and couldn't give birth; I don't remember what happened to the first one. None of these marriages brought him any good. He's old, sick and bitter, and his mental condition (he suffers from depressions) is bringing his current wife insane - she looks so battered and drained that I sometimes believe he'll outlive her by at least a decade, although he's the one suffering from Parkinson's disease.

His life story taught me several things:

1) Marriage isn't the shiny and wonderful thing it's advertised to be. It's usually an average deal. You get something, but you also lose something. Sometimes it can be good, and sometimes it can be a nightmare.

2) If you want to get married, choose carefully. Marriage has nothing to do with love; love is way overrated. A man who marries purely out of love is a fool. The characteristics that make a girl a suitable candidate for a wife are very objective an they can be easily spotted during the initial period of dating. It may sound funny, but choosing a wife is not much different from buying a cow at a farmer's market. Or a car.

3) The most interesting thing, which I haven't seen being mentioned in discussions regarding marriage, and which is a bit depressing:

Sickness and death.

As I mentioned above, my uncle has Parkinson's disease. He's just on the verge of losing the ability to walk. He's a bitter, disgruntled old man, and I believe it has a lot to do with him being childless. Now imagine how would his life look like if he had no wife to take care of him? He'd probably be in a nursing home, sitting there like a herb with almost no-one to visit him, and waiting for his death.

Another example - my mother has been battling a tumor for over five years now. She's a single mom, never married, and aside from my uncle, with whom she has an uneasy relationship, I'm the only piece of family she has left. Guess how does her life look like now? She's old, sick, depressive, has almost no one to talk with and share her feelings. She can take care of herself for now, but this is also slowly coming to an end. You can't possibly imagine her demeanor and outlook on life; she's like a walking depressant. A lot of her pain would be alleviated had she married in her youth and had more children. All of her health problems aside, now she'd at least have someone to talk to, or maybe have the joy of seeing a grandchild or two.

Now, why am I telling you all of this? It's because (I guess) a lot of arguments against marriage come from people who've never had to deal with people who were both severely ill and unmarried/childless at the same time. Yes it's easy to frown upon marriage when you're young and healthy. But when sickness and death come knocking at your door, things change a lot.

I personally intend to marry some day. My motivation is to have children and leave something behind on this world, and also to have someone to take care of me if I ever become unable to do so by myself. There's no way I'm allowing myself to endure what my mother and uncle have to endure now.

To conclude, I don't want this to be taken as an argument of the type "Get married now or you'll end up a bitter, lonely, old man". No. That's not how life works, and it's also an example of man-shaming which I'm against.

I consider this more like a matter of probability and considering options you've never considered before. "Yes, modern marriage sucks. If I get married, there's always a chance I won't be happy with my decision. But on the other hand, If I never marry, there's always a chance I'll get sick and regret my decision when I'm old". That's how life works - you weigh different options and make decisions accordingly.

Pretty selfish to get children for the primary reason of having someone take care of you in old age, imho. It reminds me of the "I gave birth to you so you owe me X, Y, Z" that narcissistic and sociopathic parents like to throw around. It's not true, a child is not indebted to their parents for their existence.

If you are worried about being taken care of at old, save money so you can pay a professional if need be.

I disagree in saying it's selfish. That's like saying it's selfish to want sex from your wife. There are benefits that come with having a family. Choosing to have a family and to participate with your extended family in order to reap the known benefits is perfectly rational, and society would benefit if more people did so.

Post: #24

(05-22-2016 05:06 AM)HenryHill Wrote:  Pretty selfish to get children for the primary reason of having someone take care of you in old age, imho. It reminds me of the "I gave birth to you so you owe me X, Y, Z" that narcissistic and sociopathic parents like to throw around. It's not true, a child is not indebted to their parents for their existence.

If you are worried about being taken care of at old, save money so you can pay a professional if need be.

It's not the primary reason, I agree with you that a child is not indebted to their parents for their existence. Of course if it comes to the worst, I'll pay a professional, that's not in question. I just feel I'd feel like crap if I had to die all alone without having left some kind of a legacy.

Post: #25

There's zero compelling reason to ever get married in most of the anglosphere and other parts of the world with family courts which mostly side with women.

You are basically taking on a binding legal contract which could result in extreme punitive financial action and liability should you decide you want to exit this contract at some point.

Just from a business point of view it's the worst thing imaginable. Just think about what you would say if someone offered you a unspecified return on your investment but should you break contract they get 50% and maybe more of your assets.

You'd rightly tell them to go get fucked.

Doing this for some fickle and completely non substantial concept such as "love" is even worse.

I don't believe marriage in a traditional minded country with sane laws is a bad thing though.