Post: #1

After reading TravelerKai's thread on Dating for Mainland China, I decided to make my own version for Thailand. For those who know me, I've been here for almost 4 years, and I speak and write fluent Thai. I know more than 98% of foreigners about Thailand, so I will share my knowledge for everyone looking to start something with a Thai lady.

First, let's clear some rumors here. Thai girls have a reputation for being whores and unfaithful. This can be explained in a pretty simple way: there are two Thailands. The one that most foreigners know, and the one that you can access after you know how the culture works. Both are physically at the same place, but are totally different.

Thailand #1: This is the place where you will find around 96% of foreigners (no joke). This includes Khao San road, Pattaya, and some beaches. Dating is done via Tinder, ThaiFriendly, and other dating sites. Most of the girls, if not bar girls, are "normal" girls who love "farangs" (word used by Thai nationals to describe white-skinned foreigners), and your girlfriend might have tried a few nationalities inside her. This will be covered briefly here.

Thailand #2: This is the place that you can access once you have some "ties" (no pun intended) to the country. This means that speaking Thai is a must, and you must know the place and know how things work here. You will need a permanent residence here, and some knowledge about Buddhism. This grants you access to marriage-material girls, hi-so girls, and some contacts that might prove useful. We'll talk on how to get there.

While this datasheet aims primarly at helping guys settle down and start a family, I will also include general information that can benefit anyone living here.

The First Thailand

I will cover this briefly. If you want the real stuff, you can skip to the next section now. If you are staying in Thailand for less than 6 months per year, you will always be in this one. If you're a tourist, or plan only a short-term stay, I will quickly tell you how to enjoy that.

Girls: Take a good shot of you, make sure that you have hair (Thais do not love shaved heads), and make a burner Facebook profile then setup Tinder using that profile. Get a tourist SIM card, register on ThaiFriendly.com, and go fishing. You will get matches pretty quickly. Then follow Tuthmosis's first-date bang recipe to bag the notch. Rinse and repeat.

Nightlife: All venues in Thailand are welcoming towards foreigners, despite some charging you a "white tax" on some stuff. Among the most popular clubs in Bangkok, there is Levels and Route 66. If you have some night game, it's usually easy to bring some girls back to your condo and get the notch. Make sure she isn't a pro though.

I won't get too deep in this as there are already several datasheets on the subject and they explain it pretty well. As a short-term visitor, this is what you will get.

The Second Thailand

This is the core of this datasheet. This will encompass all marriage-material (MM) girls, traditional girls, hi-so, and the people you will need (including men). We will first cover the basic needs to be able to experience this. After all, you are looking for a wife and to start a family. Here are the prerequisites:

- Speaking Thai
- Owning your vehicle
- Having a Thai bank account
- Owning your residence

Speaking Thai

The very first step, before you start anything serious in a country, is to speak the language. Thailand is no exception. No MM lady will settle down with a man who cannot speak Thai. You won't even make it to the first date if you can't speak Thai, as they will chat with you in Thai and most of them won't speak English well enough to date a foreigner. This will set you a huge steap ahead of anyone.
And guess what? It's a LOT easier than you think.

However, having a girl show you some Thai won't cut it. You need to attend a language school. It is pretty cheap (around 8000 baht per month), and reaching pseudo-fluency level shouldn't take more than a year if you study full time (around 3 hours a day). I personally studied from 13:00 to 16:00 at my school. It requires commitment, but like anything in life, people who aren't lazy get more than other people. I personally went to AAA Thai Language School but feel free to attend any school that is recognized by the Ministry of Education and that will help you get a ED (student) visa.

Once you have been studying for a few months and the teachers consider you a good speaker, you will eventually be offered to pass the Ministry of Education Thai competency test. This is a test that is administered once a year to foreigners who want to get a certificate proving their Thai skills. This can then be used when applying for a job, or simply as a show-off. Make it visible and show it in your house, you will look more serious. The test is done in 4 parts, and each one is graded on a scale from 1 (can't do it) to 6 (do it like a native):

- Listening. You have to listen to the radio and answer multiple-choice questions. No text, just listening. I had to listen to 36 stories then answer the questions. My level: 4
- Reading. You have to read short stories and answer multiple-choice questions. You have around 10 pages to read, and the time limit is 50 minutes. My level: 4
- Writing. You have to handwrite a story in Thai about whatever subject they ask you about. One page, 50 minutes. Mine was about the evolution of rice planting techniques used by Thai farmers. My level: 5
- Speaking. You have an interview with an evaluator who will ask you questions and make you talk about various subjects. My level: 6

This is done without any translation, tool, or help. You do it by memory. Once you are able to get at least level 4 or more in all areas, you can consider that you completed the first step: Speaking Thai.

Owning your vehicle

If you're doing to go on a date with a MM girl, coming in a taxi won't do. Even if you date near a BTS station and take the skytrain (which is acceptable), you will be asked about what kind of car you drive. While it isn't important to have a fancy car, owning your own ride will make you look more wealthy, as cars in Thailand are more expensive than the West due to tax (which are still too low IMO) in a goal to curb the traffic in Bangkok.

First of all, take care of getting your Thai driver's license. Tourists are not allowed to, but since you have a student visa or above (you should do it when you are studying Thai), you can get a Thai DL. Gather the following:
- Passport
- Two passport-sized photos (some facilities offer it on the spot, but don't take this risk)
- Your country's International Driver's License
- Medical certificate of good health (can be obtained for under 100 baht at any clinic or hospital)
- Proof of address (there are two ways: Your work permit, or a certified letter by your embassy, usually issued on the spot)

Then head to the nearest Department of Land Transport office and bring all the documents. Unless you go to Mo Chit, the employees will speak NO english, and the forms will be in Thai. However, you can bring a translator to help you. It will take a total of 2-3 hours, and you will have to go through basic tests like color blindness, distance, and reflex. Once you clear all that, you can proudly walk out of the DLT office with your brand new shining Thai driver's license in hand.

As for getting a vehicle, the process is pretty straightforward, as there are no restrictions on foreign ownership of vehicles. Don't make the mistake of using your girlfriend's name. Your vehicle can be 100% under your name without any restriction. You can buy any new or used car and register it without any problem. If you buy a new car, the dealership will take care of all the registration process for you. If you buy a used car, you have to go register it yourself at the DLT. Bring the same pile of documents than above (minus the international license), and you will walk out of the office with your name in the vehicle's green book.

Thai girls love supercars, as you will look like a real hi-so. I personally drive a Porsche Panamera and get access to the so-called "supercar parking" in every shopping mall (Paragon, Central, Emporium and a few ones). Getting the Line of a girl who sees me get out of the car has been a flying 100% success rate for me. Use this to your advantage. Plus, you get priority on the road, VIP parking even where there is no official supercar parking, and the feeling of being the boss.

I own 3 motorcycles and 2 cars, and never ran into any single issue registering it under my name. If you have a ED visa or above, you will be all right. Once you got your shiny DL and your car parked in your home with your name in the green book, you completed the second step: Owning your vehicle.

Having a Thai bank account

I personally dislike banks as I am a cryptocurrency believer, however some scenarios might require you to have a Thai bank account. So let's get one. Show up at any bank with your passport and driver's license, and you should be able to get an account. Some banks might tell you "you need a work permit". If they say so, just try another branch. You will need:

1) Passport with a visa that is not a tourist visa
2) Proof of address (driver's license is accepted)
3) A clerk that is not a jerk

I have experience with 4 banks here, so I will do you the favor of helping you choose.

The GOOD banks

Bangkok Bank: Very friendly towards foreigners, not too nosey, good service, I also banged one of their clerks (but that's another story).
SCB: Hard to get the account open, but once you get it, prompt service and no issues whatsoever.

The BAD banks

Kasikorn Bank: They called me twice in 1 month to ask me to explain the source of funds in the account. I told them it was none of their business, withdrew all my money, and closed the account.
Krungsri: I attempted to make an international transfer and they refused to process the transfer due to not having "proof of income". I again withdrew all my money and moved to SCB.

For your information, you must know the various limits to avoid getting reported to the AMLO (anti money-laundering office). While laws are a lot looser for foreigners than Thais, you must still be careful. Do not break those limits, or you might get an unwanted knock on your door:
- Cash deposits: Maximum THB 2,000,000 per day
- Cash withdrawals: Maximum THB 2,000,000 per day
- International transfers: No incoming or outgoing transfer should excess USD 50,000.

Then you can apply for a credit card. Your first card might require a security deposit; don't be a cheap charlie and just do it. You will then receive your new shiny credit card and complete the third step: Having a Thai bank account.

Owning your residence

As you mostly heard, "Farangs cannot own land in Thailand." Bullshit. You can own land with 100% control without having your name directly in the book. This is a process done through offshore companies and purchasing shares in the Thai landowning company, in the essence of what is known as a Protected Leasehold. While you can own a condo 100% in your name without problems, you need such a corporate structure when it comes to buying a single house or any property that comes with a plot of land. Now, I cannot stress this enough, but if you're going to purchase some land using a protected leasehold, you NEED to get a lawyer to do the process for you, no exceptions!. While it may seem simple, there are a few scenarios that can unfold if you choose to do it yourself:

1) The land is part of a national park, and the government decides to reclaim it. You lose everything.
2) The land used a "flying SK1", a paper-tripping process where the title deed is falsified. You lose everything.
3) Something wasn't done correctly, and the title gets revoked.

I won't do in much detail for this point, as you need a lawyer to handle the process for you. Start by buying a small house to familiarize with the process, then you can go bigger. Once you have either a condo or a house, you completed the fourth step: Owning your residence.

Note: This is the least important of the 4 criteria. If you have all other 3, you can skip this one, but make sure to rent a decent place, not a studio apartment.

Now let's get some girls

As I stated earlier, most MM girls will not date a guy if they have the slightest suspicion that he is a love tourist or just here for a short term stay. You need to be able to convince your girl that you're here for long. That's why we follow a long process, but in the long term, it will help you, not just with girls. First of all, you will meet MM girls pretty much everywhere. Here are some common places:

- High-end shops (daygame pickup)
- (If you are lucky) Plentyoffish.com. For some reason the quality is higher, despite having way fewer girls than other sites
- School, if you take any class that is not a Thai language class
- Workplace (be careful with this one, don't shit where you eat)
- University campus
- Social connections (better results, but harder)

Here are some places where you will NOT meet this kind of girl:

- A bar / pub (do I really need to explain?)
- 7/11 stores (by experience, most of they come from broken backgrounds)
- Bus stop (people who take the bus are normally poor)

Since your goal is to bag a good girl for the long term, do not offer a first date at your place, or where you will get drunk. Normally, I go for high-class restaurants. Rooftop venues work really well for that, such as Roof 409, Octave Sky Bar, etc. This will allow both of you to do the talking and get to know each other. You will be able to know if the girl is interested if you get asked the following questions:

- Do you own or rent?
- What kind of car do you drive?
- What is your parents' carreer?
- Are your parents living together?
- Do you make a lot of money?

Some might seem invasive, but answer them anyway. She isn't a gold digger. She is trying to figure out what is your social class, so she doesn't indulge in "dating down" behavior that would get frowned upon. Feel free to return the question, but answer truthfully. If you lie, she'll find out anyway.

You shouldn't push for the bang before at least date 4. I have prepared an evaluation scale for Thai girls, to help you assess whether she is a good girl or not. Most of the stuff comes from TravelerKai's scale for Chinese girls, however I made some changes to make it cater more to Thai ladies. Most points are similar, but the scores got slightly changed.

Positives:
1. Never had more than 2 boyfriends (+1 point)
2. Takes her studies seriously and has good grades (+3 points)
3. Graduated from a 4-year college (+3 points)
4. Gives up seat for elderly / disabled people (+5 points)
5. Saves / invests money intelligently (+5 points)
6. Sometimes offers to pay for dates and travel (+5 points)
7. Tries to feed her man with chopsticks or fork (+5 points)
8. Cooks for her man without asking (+5 points)
9. Massages her man without asking (+10 points)
10. Would refuse to shave her pussy hair, even if you requested. (+5 points)
11. Always returns to her hometown for Songkran (+5 points)
12. Very loyal to her parents (+10 points)
13. Takes care of relatives that are rude or mean without complaints (+15 points)
14. Still lives with her parents (+15 points)
15. Comes from a complete family with both parents still married (+20 points)
16. Virgin (+30 points)

Negatives:
17. Hair shorter than the upper neck (-1 point)
18. Ever ran away from home because of a fight with parents (-2 points)
19. Watches or shows interest in Western porn (-3 points)
20. Lost virginity in high school (-3 point)
21. Always photoshops / applies a filter to her pictures (-3 points)
22. Hairy armpits (-3 points)
23. Has had more than 3 sexual partners before 25 years of age (-5 points)
24. Dropped out of high school (-5 points)
25. Has lived with more than 1 man (-5 points)
26. Uses a lot of profanity (-5 points)
27. Laughs at other people's misfortune (-5 points)
28. Never wears a dress or a skirt (-5 points)
29. Never pays on dates with men including you (-5 points)
30. Ever had a mood jump without any noticeable trigger (-5 points)
31. Ever experienced a same-sex intercourse (-7 points)
32. Would agree to arrange a marriage solely for immigration (-10 points)
33. Makes a phone call or send a text message without apologizing during a date (-10 points)
34. Talks behind her friends' back (-10 points)
35. Ever worked in a massage parlor, bath spa, or bar (-10 points)
36. Agrees with modern feminism (-10 points)
37. Ever had a one-night stand (-10 points)
38. Has a piercing other than the ear (-15 points)
39. Has lived in a Western country for more than 3 months (-15 points)
40. Has a tattoo (-15 points)
41. Her friends hate her (-15 points)
42. Never returned home after a fight with relatives (-15 points)
43. Smokes, uses drugs, or drinks more than 2 days per week (-15 points)
44. Lost virginity in middle school (-15 points)
45. Has had more than 5 sexual partners before 25 years of age (-15 points)
46. Ever had an abortion (-15 points)
48. Thinks it is okay to look into her man's phone (-15 points)
49. Slaps and fights men, including you (-20 points)
50. Hair is as short as a man haircut or nearly bald (-20 points)
51. Has half-siblings with only 1 common parent (-20 points)
52. Cries loudly/fights in public when she does not get what she wants (-25 points)
53. Atheist (-25 points)
54. Has a kid from a previous marriage (-35 points)
55. Has ever been the mistress of a married Thai man (-40 points)
56. Claims to have been raped in the past, true or not (-40 points)
57. Has a diagnosis of mental disease such as schizophrenia or bipolarity (-50 points)
58. Has a kid who was born outside marriage (-70 points)
59. Ever worked as a sex worker or prostitute (-70 points)

The calculation process is straightforward: Add all positives, subtract all the negatives.
-50 and below: End the relationship immediately
-49 to -25: You should run away, very little chance of working
-24 to 0: Proceed with caution, possibly bad girl
1 to 25: Average girl, you can give it a try
26 to 49: Good traditional girl, possible MM
50 and above: Very special girl, take care of her

While having kids is a big negative on the scale, I suggess you skip those girls altogether. Single mothers can rarely bring you something good, and no man is overjoyed at spending his sweat on some other random babydaddy's genetic offspring that your girlfriend carried inside her.

Other considerations

Here are some other points you must consider when dealing with this type of lady. Those will be useful to you later and can be a deal-braker for her if they are not properly followed.

If she offers you to introduce you to her family, then you can safely assume that she is serious with you. If you think she might be the right one for you, then cheerfully accept her invitation. This is where you will realize how important it is to speak Thai. When you marry a Thai lady, you marry her whole family. You will never gain a Thai girl if her family does not approve you. If you cannot speak Thai, her parents' comment will be "he's just a tourist", and you'll be out. Speak Thai, it's not that hard.

Never talk about marriage with a girl if you just want the notch. Unless the girl is a train wreck that overestimates her value (-25 and below on the above scale), you need to be clear in your intentions. However if the girl is a single mom or another kind of damaged goods and you believe that she will never be able to find a husband due to her fucking her life over, then feel free to use any trick to get the notch then vanish. Otherwise, if you're dealing with a MM girl and you lie to get in her pants, you just burnt another good traditional lady that could have gotten a decent man. There should be immigration consequences for assholes who do that.

Learn how to make a merit at the temple, even if you are not Buddhist. They will all appreciate that you can take the time and attention to respect their religion and do it with them. This will get you a LOT of points. You do not need to know all the lyrics by heart, but at least, know the basic works of that.

Show respect to anyone introduced to you by her. You probably wouldn't love a girl who treats your buddies like shit. This goes both ways, and besides, her friends will do you a lot of favors later on. When you marry a Thai lady, you marry all her family as well.

Don't refuse if she wants to put food in your mouth. For some reason, Thai ladies really dislike when someone declines to taste something she wants them to eat. Many times, she will put something in a spoon and make you taste it; just do it. That can be a deal breaker for them, as they are proud of their food and really enjoy sharing their passion.

Beware of girls who hang out with farangs. If a girl claims to love to hang out at farang places, even if she isn't a bar girl, chances are that you won't get anything positive out of the relationship. A girl who loves to hang out at farang pubs should be avoided, as she is a low-class girl.

Etiquette rules

With a proper lady, follow the below etiquette rules to ensure that you will stay out of trouble at all times.

1) Do not publicly make negative comments about the monarchy. Thai people are very fond of their king and it is illegal to say negative things about the royal family. Keep those comments for yourself.

2) Do not use your feet to point at something. Anything. Feet are considered the most impure part of the body and this will get frowned upon.

3) Do not touch an older person's head. The head is considered the sacred part of the body and you will be seen as very rude if you do.

4) Don't get in a fight with Thai men. Swiftly try to walk out of trouble. Thai men have the bad habit to fight in groups. And no matter how good your Thai is, you will be seen as the intruder and are pretty sure to get beaten up. Talk your way out, don't fight.

5) This is more funny than important, but do not make Thai people "lose face" unless it is absolutely required. They get very uncomfortable they someone makes them lose face. Do not publicly point out someone's mistake if it can be resolved in private. Understand the "mai pen rai" (nevermind) mindset.

6) Understand that Songkran is important for Thais just like Christmas is for you. Think about both ways.

7) Don't push your girl away if she tried to feed you something. It's rude.

8) If you feel the need to cheat, be EXTRA secret about it. If the girl is a MM girl, she won't turn a blind eye to the "mia noi" (mistress) and will leave you for that. See my other datasheets on cheating without getting caught.

9) Use common sense for the rest.

Age and social groups

I'll attempt to break dating techniques down by age group to help you understand your audience.

Under 23 years old Most of them are still students and do not think about dating. My suggestion is don't bother with this age group. You will get constant shit tests, jealousy, and they will suck your energy. You can still try Tinder, but the only girls who fuck in this age group are damaged goods. Use this for ONS material but don't expect more.

Where to meet: Tinder, university campus, ThaiFriendly.
First date for ONS: Movie at your place.
First date for relationship: Normal restaurant in a mall.

23 to 29 years old This age group includes all girls who are thinking about finding a good man and getting married. Most girls, especially past 26 years old, start to feel pressure from the family about getting married. Those are the prime girls and the group that you should be focusing on.

Where to meet: ThaiFriendly, workplace, FarangDate, daygame in shops.
First date for ONS: Drinks near your place.
First date for relationship: Fancy high-end restaurant.

30 to 40 years old While many early-30s girls can be marriage material, most of them are past their prime. If they still haven't found someone, look for the red flag. It is sometimes something big. Can be good for temporary relationships.

Where to meet: Daygame, Tinder if you're lucky, workplace.
First date for ONS: Just show up at your place for "chilling". Nothing special here.
First date for relationship: You shouldn't, but if you need, try a good restaurant with some wine.

Over 40 years old While I have been spinning plates over this age, I haven't got anything special from it. Most are damaged, or had too many red flags that they couldn't lock up a man for wedding. Have fun but don't put your hopes up.

Where to meet: Daygame, workplace.
First date for ONS: Show up at her place, there should be no LMR.
First date for relationship: Don't bother.

Most foreigners have experienced something called White God Factor in Thailand and other Western countries. This basically means that as a good-looking white man, you start ahead of most Thai men when it comes to scoring a girl. There is no official explanation on the topic, but my guess, based on my experience, is that Thai men treat their girls like shit. Most of Thai men will indulge in behavior like:
1) Impregnating a girl, then leaving her for a younger model
2) Having no manners, things such as farting / smoking / talking rude
3) Think like children for way too long
4) Constantly cheat on their lady

I once offered this idea to a Thai lady, who made her agree with me: Some countries impose mandatory military service on men who graduate from high school. Thailand doesn't, but I think they should impose a mandatory "date a Western girl for 30 days" to all men who finish High School. I am very sure that Thai men will treat their ladies WAY better after that. Just my opinion.

Red Flags to look for

Whether you choose online dating, Tinder, or getting the Line of a girl, there are some red flags to look for. Otherwise, you will pretty much waste your time dealing with those lizards.

1) The "duck face". For some reason, this isn't very popular in Thailand. But if you see a girl doing a duck face on a photo, just skip this profile. She will most likely (as per my experience) be extremely jealous, childish, and princess.

2) Always do a Google reverse image search with the girl's profile picture. You might be surprised at how many girls take a local celebrity's face and make profiles. If her photo is fake, you should have nothing to do with this girl.

3) Be very, very wary of girls openly stating that they prefer "farangs". Those girls are often tourist-whores and most probably won't be a good fit for you. Good for ONS, nothing more.

4) If the girl ever worked in a bar, you should skip her. As the saying goes, You can get the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.

Asserting your girl's social class

In order to avoid dating down, assess your girl's social class as soon as possible. If you are tall, rich, and speak Thai, then do not go for lower class girls. Note that the social class and the level of "good girliness" are not interrelated. Your girl can be high-class but still be garbage.

Low class girls
- Will eat with their mouths open
- Her family will request a high sin sot (see below), without giving anything back
- Takes the public bus
- Works in a 7/11, Family Mart, factory, or cheap restaurants
- Can sometimes work in a bar
- Dreams of living in the West
- Catches "white god syndrome" easily
- Lives in a one-room studio apartment
- Cannot speak English
- Income: THB 18,000 per month or below

Middle class girls
- Will have basic table manners
- Owns a cheap car, or takes the skytrain
- Works in Central, Paragon, or high-end restaurants with decent service charge
- Puts her hands together ("wai") when passing a Buddhist place of worship
- Lives in a decent apartment / house, or at home with the family
- Income: THB 18,000 to THB 60,000 per month

Upper-class girls
- Owns a decent car of THB 2,000,000 or above
- Owns her company or works in a successful family business
- Very well mannered
- Offers to pay on dates (accept it)
- Owns her house, or lives with the family
- Income: THB 60,000 to 300,000 per month

Highest class girls
- You most likely won't get in this group
- Drives a luxury car, usually over THB 8,000,000
- Owns her company, or has very powerful connections in the government
- Won't talk to people who she believes is too low
- Income: THB 300,000 per month and upper

While this isn't an exhaustive list, it outlines the basic social classes that you will deal with in Thailand. The best approach is to pick a girl in your social class. You cannot score a girl above your social class unless you change your lifestyle and income to increase your social class. Dating Down is very frowned upon in Thailand. After all, a hi-so girl doesn't want to be seen with a "tourist farang", but rather a man who has connecctions with the country and has proven himself.

While your parents always taught you "You have nothing to prove to anyone", in Thailand it is the opposite. Even if you drive a brand new Rolls Royce, make 1 million per month and own 10 villas, you won't even get a date with a hi-so girl if you do not mention this or at least, let her know that you do. Many missed opportunities are due to the man not showing his value to the girl, making her believe that he was a lower-class man. Don't brag, but mention your status in a conversation in an indirect way. They will pick up the cue.

A snobbish / princess girl does not mean that she is higher class; this is irrelevant. I've seen low-class girls throw the "you should treat ME like I deserve" line while she was working at 7/11. If the girl is too snobbish, just ditch her; most upper-class girls are well-mannered and will not throw tantrums like that.

The typical roadmap for a traditional girl is to go to university, then meet a man, settle down, and marry only once. Then comes the time to start a family and stay together forever. That's the dream of any Thai girl regardless of her status and background. Every Thai girl, to the exception of whores, would like to have only 1 sex partner and start a family with him. As opposed to the west, there 70% of divorces are initiated by woman because they "don't love him anymore", here you can rest at peace knowing that your bride won't dump you for a random dude she met online. That's the true beauty of Southeast Asia.

Don't fall for a girl who tells you she is "just going for a drink with friends". Good, MM girls won't hang out in pubs with friends without their husband. If she does, she is a bargirl. A girl doesn't have to work in a bar to be a bargirl; any girl who drinks in excess without being in a stable relationship is not the kind of girl you want in your life.

Marriage procedures and the "sin sot"

Chances are that, after dating your girl for a few months, sometimes over a year, the topic of marriage will come up. While this is a good opportunity to start a family, there are red flags to look for. Check the evaluation scale above, and do not talk about marriage with a girl who scores under 10 points. You will be doomed from the start. Here are the hard limits you should follow when selecting a Thai girl for marriage:
1) Never, ever, marry a girl with kids if the father is still alive. Seriously, stop accepting single moms and cuckolding yourself. Only widows should be accepted.
2) Never marry a girl who works / worked in a bar. Bar girls are bar girls forever.

Apart from that, use your judgement and the above scale. But for the sake of making the world a better place, do not break the 2 hard limits above.

Eventually, the topic of "sin sot" will be brought up. This is a sum of money paid by the groom to a girl's family in exchange for her hand. The negotiations are made between the groom and the girl's family. The bride has virtually no say in the process. The amount is determined according to the girl's "value", the groom's estimated income, and the family's greediness. This is a very controversial topic among foreigners as many foreigners do not do well with the idea of paying for the right to marry a girl. However, there are two ways this is handled. Poorer families will request a sin sot which is like a dowry: you pay, and you don't get it back. Just like the old times, "two cows and 8 chicken for my daughter". Middle class or richer families will request an amount "just for the show" at the ceremony, and then secretly give it back the next day.

Make sure that you trust her family for that. If the family says that they will give it back but they change their minds or "forget", you have no legal recourse, as per Thai law, sin sot payment is final. The sin sot is usually paid by cash at the wedding ceremony, in front of everyone.

Sin sot should not be paid in any the following circumstances:
- The girl has already been married in the past. Only the girl's first marriage is entitled to sin sot.
- The girl has kids.
- The girl is a "broken girl".

If the girl's family requests a sin sot and the girl is in one of the above situations, respectfully decline to pay and do not be shy to tell them why. If they pull the "no sin sot, no marry" card, then choose the latter. Thank the gods that you found out about the scam before you got married.

As a foreigner, how much should you expect to pay? The short answer is "as little as you can get away with". The long answer is that you should negotiate this with the bride's family. If the family is middle class or above, then the money should be given back after the ceremony, in full or almost in full. Also determine the other points. For example, a friend of mine got married, had to pay a sin sot of 2 million baht, but the girl's parents donated them a plot of land. Make sure to have a clear plan, write it down if you need to. If the parents request a sin sot, and do not give anything back in exchange, be very careful about that, as you might enter a poisonous relationship. The average is around 500,000 baht for a middle-class office girl, to hundreds of millions for celebrities. There is no common ground, so use your judgement. If the girl is not a virgin, you should get almost all the money back. Do not pay a huge sin sot without getting it back if another man got your bride's virginity.

What advantages do you get by paying a huge sin sot? Short answer: not much. Your girl will not cook better, fuck better, massage better, or complain less. She will still be the same girl, but you will be out of a big amount of money. Logically, it dosen't make sense, however it can be considered if you are marrying into an upper-class family. While you can safely tell the parents of a restaurant worker "I don't pay sin sot, deal with it", you will not get the same treatment from the parents of an upper-class woman. However the latter should give it back, or at least give a land, a house, or anything of value. They will brag to the extended family about how much they got, so don't be dumb. Make proper arrangements, and on top of all, trust your guts.

In most cases, the man will be expected to pay for the wedding costs. However the cash donations by the guests will cover most of it.

Visa & Immigration considerations

If you are from a country with a "golden passport" (Canada, USA, Australia, UK, New Zealand), you won't have any troubles with immigration in Thailand. Same goes for most European countries.

Forget the tourist visa and the "visa runs". This doesn't work anymore, and I'm happy that it is this way. Why? Because too many foreigners were abusing the system. It was easy to get a triple-entry tourist visa, and every 2 months, take a van to Cambodia or Malaysia (depending on where you're located), get out, re-enter right now, and be good for another 2 months. This led too many tourists living here, and breaking the culture and fucking everything they can see. New visa regulations make it easy for real tourists to come visit, while giving residence privileges to people who are seen as "more desirsable" by the country. So if you want to live here, there are 3 visas that can be offered to you:

Business Visa. Every visa is different, but if you have an actual job here (you will need to speak Thai first), or start a business, you will be granted a work permit and this visa. The work permit is a great document to show proof of ties to the country and to show that you are not a tourist. If you can get this visa, it's worth it.

Marriage Visa. You can get a 1-year renewable visa if you are married to a Thai lady. This visa allows you a peaceful stay, but you still need to renew it every year. Plus, you need to transfer a minimum of 800,000 baht (if I'm right) from abroad to a Thai bank account under your name.

Thailand Elite. This is the one that I currently have, and I prefer this one by far. It is a 5-year renewable visa that allows you unlimited stay in the country. Plus, you get free airport limousine service, priority at immigration lines, personal assistant, and assistance with bank account opening. No need to go to immigration every 3 months, and it is granted to anyone who can pay the renewal fee of 500,000 baht every 5 years. Pretty cheap for what it brings.

As for bringing your girl to your home country, it can be a very tedious process. I can't speak for other countries, but for Canada, there are 3 ways that a Thai girl can get a tourist visa:
1) Having an immediate family member with Canadian citizenship (preferrably a parent)
2) Having shitloads of money in the bank (around CAD $100,000 for 6 months)
3) Being a Muslim (don't dress like one if you aren't; they will check civil records)

Thai men can visit most Western countries without much hassle. Usually, a proof of employment and proof of funds are enough. As for girls, it gets complicated, since too many Thai girls abused their visa status by staying in the country illegally and dancing / whoring themselves. Embassies are therefore wary of Thai nationals, and she will need, at the very least:
- Bank statements with equivalent of USD 30,000 for around 6 months
- Proof of employment & salary
- Proof of property ownership
- Proof of vehicle ownership

Most embassies can deny a visa under the generic "I am not satisfied that you will leave at the end of your visa" reason. The best advice I can give you on the matter is: lawyer up. A good lawyer can cost you $1,000 - $2,000 for the process, but it will definitely prove useful. I am currently in the process of bringing a Thai lady to Canada. We got denied by the embassy twice, and I decided to take them to court to force them to issue a visa. I am awaiting the date and will update you on the matter. Check out Siam Legal if you want to know more, or PM me and I can help you with that.

Closing thoughts

If you like Thailand, plan to settle down here and start a family, then make sure to pick the proper girl. There are millions of them, but hopefully this datasheet will help you not fall for the wrong one. Don't forget: tourists get the lower girls, resident foreigners get the higher girls. If you're serious about living here, you need to speak Thai. That's important.

Again, if your goal is to get a ONS, or just a mini-relationship, you can quickly ask "how long have you been single for?" to ensure that you won't be deflowering a girl for nothing. Be considerate of everyone living here, and as a guy who has ties and can speak Thai, I'm bummed when I meet a very good traditional girl, but learn that she had sex with another foreigner who deflowered her and went back to his country.

With the majority of Thai girls, you will get LMR during the first time you bang her. Be patient and navigate through the LMR using the standard techniques described in the forums. If you have been battling LMR for over 2 hours, and you believe that the girl isn't of any special value, you can throw the "If you're not interested, you can leave" line. I personally have 75% success with this line, where in the other 25% of cases she just left.

In Thailand, social class is everything. Not just about girls, but about anything: how you get treated in venues, how you can get away with breaking the law, and obviously, girls. If you're driving a Lamborghini and you come through a police checkpoint, they won't even ask you to slow down. They will basically wave you through, and stop the Honda driving behind you. Everything is about social class. If you come to a fancy restaurant driving a high-class car and dressing well, the boss will often come to your table to chat with you and ask if everything is all right. If you fall victim of "regret rape" (VERY rare here), and the girl is a lower-class girl, it'll get swept under the rug.

Enjoy your stay, and hit me up if you have any concerns!

Post: #2

It's great to see that someone with a little willpower, a willingness to learn, and some resources, can make a life for himself in Thailand beyond what most foreigners experience.

Well done, sir.

Post: #3

Great guide! I would rep you for it, but I already gave you one a long time ago.

The only thing that shocked me was:

Agrees with modern feminism (-10 points)

That to me should be a -50 if not -70+.

That said, in China women that think feminism is okay actually think feminism just simply means women can get a job and work. They have absolutely no idea what the rest of feminism means. If that is why you graded that a -10, I can kinda see that, but I would still grade that higher than -10 and more like -25. Thing is submission is key for marriage material, especially with Asian women. You ideally want them to be completely dependent on you. Guys get too caught up on wanting women with their own money and they have no idea the potential headaches that comes with. All that said, you know Thai women way better than I do, so I will defer to you and others on that.

Other than that, I think you made a great guide.

Post: #4

Feminism here is similar to China; women believe in equal right to work and vote. There is no such thing as American feminism here.

I had a talk with my main girl about feminism, and she wasn't sure what I meant at first; I showed her a few pics of feminist protests in Western countries and she was disgusted by it.

You are totally right about submission; I was once with a "strong and independant" Thai girl who lived in the states for a few months before, and it was a constant headache.

Post: #5

Wow, that's an awesome datasheet. I have no interest in getting a Thai wife, but I imagine a lot of what you wrote can be applied to other non-western countries.

Post: #6

Very cool sheet. Great writeup.

I'd contend there is a middle ground though: the upper-class international school types who've studied at uni in the west. They can be the best of both worlds: upper class, modern, sophisticated, picky yet also have a foot in western culture.

I know a few who would fall into your "upper class" bracket economically, are very classy, don't go near tourists, yet are definitively "international". You wont need fluent Thai. They speak alot of English, and hang out with an upscale mixed western + thai social circle (but not tru Hi-So), and are in a serious relationship with a high-value westerner - banker, embassy worker, etc.

However they're definitely a minority, and depending on your tastes, may even still be too westernised or fiesty. I really dig them though.

Post: #7

While your parents always taught you "You have nothing to prove to anyone", in Thailand it is the opposite. Even if you drive a brand new Rolls Royce, make 1 million per month and own 10 villas, you won't even get a date with a hi-so girl if you do not mention this or at least, let her know that you do. Many missed opportunities are due to the man not showing his value to the girl, making her believe that he was a lower-class man. Don't brag, but mention your status in a conversation in an indirect way. They will pick up the cue.

Post: #8

A Porsche Panamera in Thailand is like 250k USD. Come on bud. A Mazda 3 would be more convincing.

Post: #9

(05-27-2016 11:02 AM)Kdog Wrote:  A Porsche Panamera in Thailand is like 250k USD. Come on bud. A Mazda 3 would be more convincing.

As everything works with social class (or at least, perceived social class), having a Porsche / Lambo / Ferrari / etc. will have a lot more impact than lower cars.

For example, BMW, Mercedes, and the lower Maserati models are not authorized to park in the Supercar parking at Siam Paragon, but on the other hand, arriving there with a Panamera gives me access to the special spot with the charging station.

I've also noticed that in most places where there isn't an official "Supercar" spot, most security guards will keep 1 or 2 spots near the door and will open them to those kind of cars coming.

Owning a Porsche here is not just about the car brand, but also for the privileges that come with it.

You are right about the 250k price tag. The sale price for the hybrid model is 10.5 million baht, but there was obviously some negotiation done. This is another situation where speaking Thai helps.

Post: #10

(05-26-2016 05:21 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  The GOOD banks

Bangkok Bank: Very friendly towards foreigners, not too nosey, good service, I also banged one of their clerks (but that's another story).
SCB: Hard to get the account open, but once you get it, prompt service and no issues whatsoever.

I have both of these as well. The biggest benefit to Bangkok Bank is that you can route funds from New York to Bangkok without any hassle whatsoever.

Post: #11

Interesting.

I've been dicking around in Facebook groups for the last couple of years with Filipinas. Recently there are some groups with Thai women opening up. Some observations and I probably shouldn't comment until I travel to SEA:

- A few Thai women I've seen, I simply could not believe how old they were. Keep in mind I'm 47. One was 51, and I had 39 as a guess. Also one good thing about Facebook is many are posting of pics daily in which it's a little harder to cherry pick compared to say a dating site.
- My perception is In any case on the Facebook groups only, I see Thai women as maintaining their youthful looks better than Filipina women. Now it could well be that 40+ women in The Phils don't bother, but the ones who do usually look worn down. Which means of course always chasing 25-29 types but with some concern about how they'll age
- Thai women who can speak English are far pickier, and far more intelligent. I had a 3 day argument with a gorgeous 30 year old lawyer regarding Trump. She was actually married and not looking but I was just into the debate. At least on Facebook, I don't see a 25 year old nearly as interested in a 47 year old. I don't think this is bad, I hate how non-picky the Filipinas are. I see some gross looking relationships form.

Anyway your thread just made me think a lot that perhaps I should think Thai though I'm a few years away from being able to spend that much time over there. They are more fit, many make a good living, they tend to stay thin. I have a couple of Filipinas that I happen to think are pretty damn hot, but your red flag list has me 2nd guessing. Great for a 2-3 day visit but marriage..... ehhh I don't know.

Post: #12

Great Sheet Rawmeo, Thailand is an awesome place.

Are you based in Bangkok then?

Post: #13

Care to explain why some would refuse to shave their bush if requested?

Post: #14

While I appreciate the work the OP has put into the data sheet, there are a few errors.

First off, there isn't a marriage visa per se. If married to a Thai girl you can get a 1 yr Non Immigrant O visa, but this visa is also available for someone who is retired (over 50) and not that many years ago, could even get one for visiting a friend in Thailand. Also incorrect that you need to have 800K baht(฿) in the bank to get this visa if you are married. Proof of funds is needed if you don't want to leave Thailand to get another visa after it expires. At this point you can apply for an extension and need to 'prove' that you have sufficient funds; 400K baht(฿) in the bank or 40k baht per month income stream or a combination of both.

I am married to a Thai and currently living here on a multi entry Non Immigrant O visa which I picked up in Savannahket (cost 5000฿) and will get almost 18 months stay out of it before I need to go back to get another one. Visa is valid for 1 year and just before it expires, cross over the border and back for another 90 day entry and then a 60 day extension on the grounds of 'visiting my wife' will give me almost 18 months stay for a 5000฿ visa. Savannakhet doesn't require you to show income or funds in the bank for this visa.

As for banking the OP makes it seem like you cannot open a bank account on a tourist visa. This is also incorrect and although you may need to visit a few branches of Bangkok Bank (easiest one) it can be done and I did it 4 months ago for a friend who arrived from Canada on a single entry tourist visa.

The idea that your Thai wife or LTR will need to show $30,000 USD in an account to travel to a western country is also incorrect, at least that is our experience with a Schengen visa. My wife came to visit me in Europe (Greece, Italy, Sweden) last September and although she did need a letter from her employer and proof of funds to travel (I think it worked out to something like 60 Euros per day spent in the Schengen area), which is not unreasonable.

Post: #15

Fantastic info and very accurate. I put my local girl through the metric and she scored 36, which is squarely in line with how I perceived her status.

Post: #16

I am a bit disappointed there wasn't a section on how to successfully manage a harem cabinet...

Post: #17

Yeah, just buy a 250k car in a foreign country, no problem, I'm sure 99% of the guys on this forum can afford that. -_-

Still, I must concur that your advice is spot on. Whites in Asia are no longer assumed to be rich. For access to the top tier girls, you pretty much have to prove that you've got it together financially. I bought a car in the Philippines (not as costly as yours but fancy) and the level of female interest has skyrocketed.

The only problem with your strategy is, are you going to be living there permanently? I wouldn't want to live anywhere in Asia, much less SEA, for any length of time. The traffic is only going to get worse and the quality of life to cost of living ratio is far worse than anywhere in the west. For 500k you can get a poorly constructed house in SEA or a 5,000 sqft mansion in Georgia.

Post: #18

Excellent datasheet. +1 rep point from me.

Like as mentioned above your post can be slightly tweaked to apply to many other countries as well. Philippines comes to mind as being pretty close.

Post: #19

skptc Wrote:I am a bit disappointed there wasn't a section on how to successfully manage a harem cabinet...

That could be an idea for a future datasheet; as it isn't Thailand specific.

erikak Wrote:The only problem with your strategy is, are you going to be living there permanently? I wouldn't want to live anywhere in Asia, much less SEA, for any length of time. The traffic is only going to get worse

I plan to live here permanently. For 500k you can get some very decent houses in Bangkok; however expect the price of land to be slightly higher than the West due to having a larger population in a smaller country.

booshala Wrote:Fantastic info and very accurate. I put my local girl through the metric and she scored 36, which is squarely in line with how I perceived her status

A score of 36 is a very good girl; IMO if she hasn't any major red flag, she's a keeper.

RatInTheWoods Wrote:Are you based in Bangkok then?

Yes I am, however I plan on spending perhaps a week or 2 every month in Phuket.

porscheguy Wrote:Care to explain why some would refuse to shave their bush if requested?

I am not 100% sure of that, but many Thai girls focus on being "natural" and prefer their bodies this way. I personally got shocked the first time, but got used to it after a while. All girls that I banged had some little bush down there. That's just my guess, I don't have an official answer.

Post: #20

This datasheet is a classic example of the gulf between certain online personas and reality.

On the surface, this seems like a solid datasheet. I don't take issue with most of the facts included, other than your obvious disdain for tourists. Staying on a tourist visa is still 100% fine, in fact you can now extend it indefinitely with some visa runs in between. I'll also brush aside your overfixation on the Thai class structure (Farang don't fit this and never will) which borders on the ridiculous because that isn't my main point here.

Thing is, I have met you and your LTR. Sorry dude, but that girl wasn't even close to being "hiso" and was certainly no angel. You aren't really in the position to be giving anyone serious dating advice. Out of respect, I will leave it at that without going into any more details.

Honestly, I have bitten my tongue for a long while now because your posts can be entertaining in a trollish way, but your constant preaching about virgins and high class Thais is starting to get old. Most of the "conquests" you showed myself and other members were neither of the above and often appeared to be dark-skinned and/or obese single mothers right out of the provinces. In other words, the kind of chicks that you claim to be beneath you.

Next up, there's the big baller claims of "making more money than you know what to do with" and the casual mention of your 250k luxury car and 3 motorbikes that help you pick up the hiso chicks. Again, last time I heard you were living in a rented house in bumfuck middle of nowhere and now you suddenly have millions in the bank? Hey, there's a small chance that this may all be true but considering your posting record, I highly, highly doubt it.

I wonder why someone with "native level" Thai and tons of cash in the bank still bangs bottom of the barrel chicks?

Honestly, I don't enjoy writing any of the above, but sometimes you have to call shit out when you see it.

Post: #21

Personally I don't think I've ever banged a Thai girl that did have pubic hair....

Post: #22

Like NTP rawmeo has created this amazing online personality. Members should wonder why he doesnt have more reps from members living in bkk.

Post: #23

Several people in BKK have met Rawmeo I will say that... I think most aren't calling him out cos he seems like a harmless kind of guy.

Post: #24

Rawmeo there's a lot of great information here, but this really sticks out for me:

"You will be able to know if the girl is interested if you get asked the following questions:

- Do you own or rent?
- What kind of car do you drive?
- What is your parents' carreer?
- Are your parents living together?
- Do you make a lot of money?"

How sure are you that the girls asking these questions aren't the golddiggers you're telling people to avoid?

These are very strange questions to be asked on a date. I don't think I've ever been asked them actually.

Also, I have to disagree with the whole idea of 'social class is everything'. Game, looks, working out, dressing well, learning the language all play their part:

I am an English teacher on just under 60,000 Baht a month. My girlfriend comfortably fits into your 'Highest Class' girls bracket. (I.e, Her sister is on Channel 3 every morning, she's driven me round in her Mercedes Benz many times, and she helped Kdog dodge 7,000 Baht worth of police fines the other week. Has 'links' but that's not going on the forum)

Post: #25

Getting pretty personal this thread...