Post: #1

It was sorta cool for a history of science and interesting experiment with laypeople, but I just don't get WHY (ironically) these scientific humanist types can't understand that science is not in the business of "Why" or questions of meaning.

The last quote from Hawking from the show (Episode 3) Genius is totally nonsensical,

"When we look closer, we discover that the universe appears to split into all possible universes, all of the time" ...

"And that would lead to a pretty remarkable realization: We may be feeble and tiny in relation to the cosmos ... but in a very real way it exists just for you --- the universe you see is the one that gives rise to you, out of all the possible universes, and THAT is why you are here."


Isn't this a tautology? Where do we measure, how do we measure, the many worlds theory? How is it science if we can't observe it?

No shit I'm me, Hawking.

All possible universes, none of which you've shown (except this one) me ... how is this not "religion"?

Do people actually buy this stuff?

Post: #2

First of all, the show is to entertain...Hawking is to understand physics and the cosmos. He's still a a brilliant physicist.

He's not the first to do this. Our study of physics has led to justifiably led to metaphysics...the marriage between physics and philosophy. Erwin Schrödinger was an accomplished physicist who wrote book on the implications of the double slit test (proton-wave characteristic of light).

Many times these concepts must be restated in slightly different terms to fully understand the logic and implications. I'm not sure you would say it's tautological.

In the example you give, I'd say he's offering two perspectives on the same fact. Standing in awe of the size of the universe and the possibilities of all realities can cause feelings of meaningfulness or meaninglessness, depending on your perspective:

The universe is huge and limitless, so...
- It doesn't care about you and life is meaningless. No reason to try and better yourself or your planet. Everything is random and by chance and you're helpless.
- You offer a very unique, special perspective no other spec or flec could offer anywhere else in the universe. A meaningful perspective. You are the result of the best of the best of the best ad infinitum of winners who multiplied and divided and survived and reproduced.

I think it applies in regards to women as well:
I'm a man, men are commodities (true, biologically speaking). There's a zillion sperm donaters out there, and so much chance is involved in me getting laid (she's on period, she has bf, etc), so...
- No reason to approach because I'm not a gambler and the chances aren't great (they aren't). Might as well just get drunk and have fun
- I'm basically worthless just sitting here. The only way to move is up. The worst that happens is she shoots me down, which I expect (mathematically you should), so I might as well go talk to her.

(Hmm...I may turn that last part in to a game post. There's more underneath the surface there)

Post: #3

(05-26-2016 11:38 AM)heavy Wrote:  First of all, the show is to entertain...Hawking is to understand physics and the cosmos. He's still a a brilliant physicist.

He's not the first to do this. Our study of physics has led to justifiably led to metaphysics...the marriage between physics and philosophy. Erwin Schrödinger was an accomplished physicist who wrote book on the implications of the double slit test (proton-wave characteristic of light).

Many times these concepts must be restated in slightly different terms to fully understand the logic and implications. I'm not sure you would say it's tautological.

In the example you give, I'd say he's offering two perspectives on the same fact. Standing in awe of the size of the universe and the possibilities of all realities can cause feelings of meaningfulness or meaninglessness, depending on your perspective:

The universe is huge and limitless, so...
- It doesn't care about you and life is meaningless. No reason to try and better yourself or your planet. Everything is random and by chance and you're helpless.
- You offer a very unique, special perspective no other spec or flec could offer anywhere else in the universe. A meaningful perspective. You are the result of the best of the best of the best ad infinitum of winners who multiplied and divided and survived and reproduced.

I think it applies in regards to women as well:
I'm a man, men are commodities (true, biologically speaking). There's a zillion sperm donaters out there, and so much chance is involved in me getting laid (she's on period, she has bf, etc), so...
- No reason to approach because I'm not a gambler and the chances aren't great (they aren't). Might as well just get drunk and have fun
- I'm basically worthless just sitting here. The only way to move is up. The worst that happens is she shoots me down, which I expect (mathematically you should), so I might as well go talk to her.

(Hmm...I may turn that last part in to a game post. There's more underneath the surface there)

We can talk about the show more if you've seen it, such as the neuroscience and "there is no free will" which can be easily exposed as not science, but I'd rather focus on my original post:

Your points PROVE mine.

If physics leads to metaphysics, the conclusion is that people of faith are justified. Obviously, there are many people who believe in asinine things. But that still doesn't say that faith in general, or what it means to be human isn't explained by things other than science. In fact, it is.

If he's so brilliant, why can't he realize that science purpose is testing, observation , and conclusion based on the OBSERVED. His business is NOT addressing meaning and purpose. What's more, he can't even test or observe that there are multiple universes. I'm not saying there aren't, I'm saying science can't tell us that.

My little soliloquy is made concise in the example that so frequently goes unanswered by the silly scientific humanists and that is the question about the "Big Bang." It just happened. Out of nothing. Not obeying any rule that any scientist has ever discovered, nor will. Yet these people make fun of people who "believe" in alternative explanations, when the fundamental premise that they hold is something inexplicable, un-testable, and faith-like in at its core?

If I didn't think they were lying to themselves (or willfully ignorant) I'd just call it "weird."

Post: #4

(05-26-2016 12:59 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  If physics leads to metaphysics, the conclusion is that people of faith are justified.
...
My little soliloquy is made concise in the example that so frequently goes unanswered by the silly scientific humanists and that is the question about the "Big Bang." It just happened. Out of nothing. Not obeying any rule that any scientist has ever discovered, nor will. Yet these people make fun of people who "believe" in alternative explanations, when the fundamental premise that they hold is something inexplicable, un-testable, and faith-like in at its core?
...

You're right, I haven't seen it. And your response gave me a better understanding of what you meant.

Excellent points.