Post: #1

After spending the better part of a year perusing websites like Return of Kings and sporadically reading PUA, neo-masculine, red-pill, and alt-right blogs, I have come to find that I have no motivation to go out and start picking up women. It's the complete opposite.

To put it simply, I've been told all these things that were they about any other group I would be loathe to associate myself with them at all.

Take RoK for example. We have articles about women defecting from North Korea, leaving their families vulnerable to imprisonment and torture. Articles about attractive girls going off to be defiled by wealthy Saudi princes, more then I can count about women secretly loving being objectified and abused, and articles about how easily women fall victim to the one hundred and one varieties of game.

There are pieces that Roosh has written about how game is essentially a high form of clowning, that you're debasing yourself like a performing seal on the off chance you might get your dick wet.

I hear "Women are dumb, women are not loyal, women are like children, women are selfish, women have no sense of justice or honor or comradeship, they'll also sell you and your children up the river for their own benefit and probably falsely accuse you of rape and abuse. So now that you've read all that, we're going to teach you techniques you can use to get even closer to these things."

This is something I simply can't wrap my head around. After reading nearly everything penned on this and dozens of other websites, I've simply become somewhere between numb and slightly disgusted just by being around members of the opposite sex.

How do I drop this feeling so I can actually start meeting women without feeling disgusted, like I'm somehow degrading myself by trying so hard to get approval? Or am I thinking too much into this and just need to somehow let it go?

Post: #2

This is what we call a game denialist.

Post: #3

(05-29-2016 05:25 AM)pitt Wrote:  This is what we call a game denialist.

I'm not denying that it works. I'm curious as to why the men on this forum bother and just how they stomach it. Obviously you see something I don't.

Post: #4

The moral of the story is women fall into whatever frame the world presents them. If it is okay to attention whore and turn into a dirty hoe and everyone is cool with it women will jump at the chance. They are like children left alone in a candy store.

We as men have to exploit this, create our own garden to defend against it if we want a good woman, try change the frame of society so women fall into it, or run to a society that can actually hold frame we desire.

The information gives you options.

The rest is up to you.

Post: #5

Assuming not troll, sites like those in the manosphere are focused on these issues beyond their actual presence in real life, because they are cautionary. Do you also watch car crash compilation videos and then decide driving is a terrible idea?

Even in the west, there are a large subset of women who aren't messed up in the head. Go out and find one and stop whining.

The motivation is pussy. You don't need any other. That stuff is amazing.

Post: #6

^ Those chicks are vast majority sub par in looks, don't sell false idols.

Post: #7

(05-29-2016 05:36 AM)Travesty Wrote:  The moral of the story is women fall into whatever frame the world presents them. If it is okay to attention whore and turn into a dirty hoe and everyone is cool with it women will jump at the chance. They are like children left alone in a candy store.

We as men have to exploit this, create our own garden to defend against it if we want a good woman, try change the frame of society so women fall into it, or run to a society that can actually hold frame we desire.

The information gives you options.

The rest is up to you.

So there's still the problem of "women are stupid, shallow, and essentially children". That's not exactly knowledge that's helping me being attracted to something.

Post: #8

The OP is probably in that empty, austere place where men wake up to after swallowing the Red Pill.

It is better to see the dark side of female nature which post-modern capitalist societies is leveraging before you get married.

The shadow of MGTOW is never far away but I still hope to get married one day after doing the necessary due-diligence.

If I don't get married because I adjudge the cost-benefit-risk to be negative, I have enough game to have several women per year as long as I practise a long term bachelor project such as golf, motorcycling and especially sailing. With constructive hobbies in place, a few women per year would do me - I am now at the age when I have seen behind the curtain and there isn't really that much to women.

Whether you like it or not, the most inappropriate sexual fantasy for men to have these days is a lifelong marriage with a young, slim, healthy wife who wants a lot of children and who is a slut for him - and for him only. Someone who he can protect and nurture without being cheated on. Society will fight tooth and nail to ensure such inappropriate relationships die out.

Whether game is looks, height, money or trained confidence, you need to be 20% higher in social standing than any woman you are interested in. That's the reality in the West these days.

Post: #9

(05-29-2016 05:54 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The OP is probably in that empty, austere place where men wake up to after swallowing the Red Pill.

It is better to see the dark side of female nature which post-modern capitalist societies is leveraging before you get married.

The shadow of MGTOW is never far away but I still hope to get married one day after doing the necessary due-diligence.

If I don't get married because I adjudge the cost-benefit-risk to be negative, I have enough game to have a several women per year as long as I practise a long term bachelor project such as golf, motorcycling and especially sailing. With constructive hobbies in place, a few women per year would do me - I am now at the age when I have seen behind the curtain and there isn't really that much to women.

That's basically it. I can see that there isn't really anything there, and the more I read the more I just don't want to be around the opposite sex anymore. I can't understand how anything written on this or other websites would make me want to pursue game.

Post: #10

OP, I must admit I think something similar to you, about women.
I know they're not loyal, slutty, have no honor, are childish, flaky, short term sighted leftists, so why bother even talking to them?

My answer is : as a man, I need to take challenges to better myself, to feel good in my skin.
Stagnation and inaction would be Death.

Being able to play my seductive role around girls and enjoy it, is a challenge.
Being able to seduce a girl and bring her back to my bed is also one.
I guess they're biological urges, still they make me a better Man in my own eyes.

PS : meeting a New York chick in a few hours, hope to get my US flag, hehe.

Post: #11

(05-29-2016 05:38 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Assuming not troll, sites like those in the manosphere are focused on these issues beyond their actual presence in real life, because they are cautionary. Do you also watch car crash compilation videos and then decide driving is a terrible idea?

Even in the west, there are a large subset of women who aren't messed up in the head. Go out and find one and stop whining.

The motivation is pussy. You don't need any other. That stuff is amazing.

Not really? I've had it and it's rarely worth dealing with what's attached...

I don't, but if it were established that most drivers on the road had short bouts of extreme road rage at random intervals that you could only prevent by smiling at them and saying a couple of nice things? Yeah I'd be a little antsy about it.

Post: #12

(05-29-2016 05:59 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 05:54 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The OP is probably in that empty, austere place where men wake up to after swallowing the Red Pill.

It is better to see the dark side of female nature which post-modern capitalist societies is leveraging before you get married.

The shadow of MGTOW is never far away but I still hope to get married one day after doing the necessary due-diligence.

If I don't get married because I adjudge the cost-benefit-risk to be negative, I have enough game to have a several women per year as long as I practise a long term bachelor project such as golf, motorcycling and especially sailing. With constructive hobbies in place, a few women per year would do me - I am now at the age when I have seen behind the curtain and there isn't really that much to women.

That's basically it. I can see that there isn't really anything there, and the more I read the more I just don't want to be around the opposite sex anymore. I can't understand how anything written on this or other websites would make me want to pursue game.

It is just a temporary stage. You'll come through this and pursue women as a wiser man.

As St Paul said, "Be as harmless as doves but wise as serpents".

Young men enter the dating market as doves thinking that treating women like their single mothers told them to treat their sisters and rom com love stories will get them a girlfriend.

These doves get slaughtered.

The doves that survive come back as wise as serpents.

Post: #13

(05-29-2016 06:04 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 05:59 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 05:54 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The OP is probably in that empty, austere place where men wake up to after swallowing the Red Pill.

It is better to see the dark side of female nature which post-modern capitalist societies is leveraging before you get married.

The shadow of MGTOW is never far away but I still hope to get married one day after doing the necessary due-diligence.

If I don't get married because I adjudge the cost-benefit-risk to be negative, I have enough game to have a several women per year as long as I practise a long term bachelor project such as golf, motorcycling and especially sailing. With constructive hobbies in place, a few women per year would do me - I am now at the age when I have seen behind the curtain and there isn't really that much to women.

That's basically it. I can see that there isn't really anything there, and the more I read the more I just don't want to be around the opposite sex anymore. I can't understand how anything written on this or other websites would make me want to pursue game.

It is just a temporary stage. You'll come through this and pursue women as a wiser man.

As St Paul said, "Be as harmless as doves but wise as serpents".

Young men enter the dating market as doves thinking that treating women like their single mothers told them to treat their sisters and rom com love stories will get them a girlfriend.

These doves get slaughtered.

The doves that survive come back as wise as serpents.

Okay so there's the "You'll grow out of it" answer.

Why would a wise man waste his time pursuing something he can't stand being around?

Post: #14

OP, you're currently in what's know as the "Red Pill Rage" moment! By knowing the information that you know, you have to make a choice on how you want to be dealing with women from now on. Do you still want to get married, or have short term relationship with them, or just Bang and Bang and Bang... then next? Society will try to shame you in only believing in option # 1, but you get to decide what you want. In my case, it's a choice that took me a couple of months, especially after Roosh went on the Neomasculine way since my Gaming career was given birth thanks to his writings.

The choice you make has to fall in line with the Frames aka the Values & Beliefs you hold for yourself. There is no right or wrong frames to fallow, since you decide what's best for you. These can change over time, so what you select today can be different from what you might want in 2 years. Some members here believe that they have the right to Bang everything that moves since women throw around their cooch like Payton Manning used to throw Touchdown, while other believes to not stick their Big Boys in crazy Skanks.

I know I've made the right choice for myself since I'm now completely emotionless when I'm around women. Despite all my knowledge about their behavior, I'm only reacting with the emotions they're giving me at that exact moment, and nothing else. Hope this helps. You've got a lot of thinking ahead of you. Be sure to take your time on this. Don't try to live a lie since you owe yourself the truth.

Post: #15

Duh, because he is wise and understands.

Dude, I don't exactly like sounding like this - I prefer long rambling posts- but yeah, because just like the majestic and powerful tiger submits to looking silly when banging a female and is as vulnerable to death as the weakest bug and just as something so insignificant as a tardigrade is nearly immortal so do we come to understand life as we evolve, provided we want to.

Try seeing it as survival, a shit ton of things eat and/or kill rabbits. They still need to go out there and survive because if they don't,tjrn they would starve in their safe spaces.



Well, I'm feeling better now. As I *did* ramble after all!

Post: #16

Because they are half the population and it is clearly against nature not to build your social skills to interact with half of the world.

A man is not an island.

Post: #17

Naw, that's the intended effect.

Game and PUA tap into your natural desire to fuck women, so you end up having a positive world view. Game is always reframing negatives as positives to push you towards action.

The Manosphere taps into your natural fears that everyone is out to get you. Reframes everything as negative, so that you end up going MGTOW or decamping for a "more just society"

The healthy player should view what the Sphere says as a cautionary tale of what happens if you totally buy into society tells you. It's why the Red Pill (a twice stolen metaphor, first from PUA, who ripped it from "The Matrix), WAS such a good metaphor.

You take the red pill, and poof, - this is how things are really happening. I'm being advertised, socialized, pressured to do things that I don't really want to do.

But that's now that not what is now. Game said you could take back your life through your own effort. If one man can do it, another man can.

Manosphere says why bother.

WIA

Post: #18

(05-29-2016 05:02 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  How do I drop this feeling so I can actually start meeting women without feeling disgusted, like I'm somehow degrading myself by trying so hard to get approval? Or am I thinking too much into this and just need to somehow let it go?

Here are some suggestions that will hopefully assist you in reducing your overall confusion, side effects of "swallowing the red pill", and anger towards women (which is likely to have long term consequences for your health) [ref 1].

1. Consider that "The Map is not the Territory" [ref 2], and that the conscious selection of information and experiences is critical in creating the life you want.

> (i) Avoid creating or reading excessive variants of "women / feminists / etc suck" threads [ref 3], or other external negative clickbait "news" articles,
> (ii)Consider that one of the main purposes behind 'controversial media', if not the main purpose in many cases, is to gain revenue [refs 4,5], rather than portraying a moderate and accurate view of general and individual life experiences. Attention can also a big driving factor [ref 6].
> (iii) Instead, do not give up hope [ref 7] and remind yourself of positive game and relationship stories.

2. Assuming you want a quality girlfriend rather than pure quantity of lays... Once you have one regular girl to bang -- which at least will give you a certain level of calmness and non-neediness when you do meet a woman who is girlfriend material --

> (i) Delete, yep delete Tinder and other online dating applications/profiles,
> (ii) minimize your clubbing to once a fortnight if at all ,

[Rationale: over time these contexts, whilst convenient for quick and numerous encounters, are likely to leave many men filled with despair; other more sustainable and psychologically-healthy options include social circle, hobby-related, and daytime game. I do believe in "trial by fire" and have had countless fun nights out clubbing, plus I've had my own fair share of pipelined pleasure, but if you're feeling jaded about women then it could be a good move to reduce the online/clubbing streams.]

> (iii) Cut off or downgrade any woman who does not show you respect and who does not fulfill your other needs for a quality girl. Much of the Manosphere, whilst fairly bitter it appears, does have value in its cautionary tales (credit: WIA) among much else; so take plenty of time before getting emotionally or otherwise invested in a woman.

3. Minimize scrolling of social media feeds, or viewing the profiles of others - especially females - unless pre-screened [ref 8].

4. If your local environment and women are not pleasing you, consider domestic and international travel, and bonding with non-Western or more traditional, conservative women. That said, you also need to accept personal responsibility [ref 9].

5. Develop relationships with positive male friends, including a few who are game aware. Go to your local RVF/PUA/men's group meetup and PM some players in your area.

6. Practice daily appreciation. As you get ready for bed and as you wake up in the morning, repeat to yourself 3 things that you feel grateful for [ref 10].

Further reading

[1] Mr Lemon @ RVF: "I had a heart attack" {LINK}
[2] R.S. Stikes: "The Map Is Not The Territory {LINK}
[3] H1N1 @ RVF: "RE: The dangers of the red pill {LINK}.
[4] Atlant @ RVF: "RE: RSD Instructor causes stir in the Far East"{LINK}
[5] Economist site: "Better to be reviled than ignored" {NSFW Borat mankini warning, LINK}
[6] M. Leary: "Why do some people prefer negative attention to no attention at all?" {LINK}
[7] Quintus Curtius @ RVF, “RE: There Are No Consequences For Women” {LINK}.
[8] Jariel @ RVF: "Real Talk Sessions: Stop Looking At Women On Social Media Sites" {LINK}
[9] Artiste @ RVF: "RE: Staying with a quality girl vs. banging other women" {LINK}
[10] H. Russell: "How to Start a Gratitude Practice to Change Your Life" {LINK}

Edit: added some extra links

Post: #19

TO OP:

Part of discovering the Red Pill and Neomasculinity is questioning; Now that I know the truth about the Darth Vader dark side of women and the damage they can do with their feminine force - you naturally wonder how can I take a sexy woman and focus her on the positive rather than negative side of her natural female energy - that being creating, nurturing, guiding the next generation and building and serving your legacy?

I am all about solutions so type the following into Google...

"How to control your woman with Psychology and Hypnosis"

Here are some results:

How Does Fractionation Seduction Work? Theory & Examples
http://www.beyondtalk.net/fractionation/

Girls Psychology • Fractionation Seduction
http://fractionationseduction.net/girls-psychology/

How To Use These 3 Hypnotic “Power Words” To Covertly Increase Your Conversion Rates
https://blog.kissmetrics.com/3-hypnotic-power-words/ (Imagine, You, Because ... )

Make Them Obey Make Them Stay: How-To Use Hypnosis, NLP, Psychology, Cult Mind Control Tactics, And More, To Manipulate And Control Your Girl So She Obeys You And Never Leaves You
https://www.amazon.com/Make-Them-Obey-St...B00U2DT1SC

Hypnotize Your Wife Live A Better Life [Or Your Girlfriend For That Matter]: How-to make any girl-even yours-a good little girl who obeys.
https://www.amazon.com/Hypnotize-Better-...B00TZ8K6YS

Getting Her To Love You – An SIBG Primer Seduction Guide
http://sibg.com/get-her-to-love-you/

Should you decide to be bold and IMAGINE YOU are able to melt women into uncontrollable desire BECAUSE of YOUR touch and while YOU begin to massage their neck muscles they are overwhelmed by arousal and immediately crave YOUR penetration of their moist garden of orgasmic desire.

Then your mission is to take action and read the above articles that were top rated by Google in the search indicated and come back and write up an RVF Data Sheet about what worked for you and what did not and why.

Worst case you will be approaching many women and discover a few desirable ladies that you can mold to your desires and become aroused by your presence and touch and will work tirelessly to satisfy your sexual desires and fantasies.

Good luck, take action, have fun and report back to us.

Post: #20

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Post: #21

The forum, RoK is like a coach, fuck it call it a life coach.

It can't tell you what to want in your life. It can only help you pursue what you want with advice and experience when you know what you want.

You are talking about motivation. That can only come from you. All of your readings has robbed you of it. Does that make sense?

We can't tell you to like blondes, from XYZ country, and of a certain age. Only you have your preferences.

It sounds like you are in a tailspin. Some may try to help you pull out of it, but I think you need to crash the plane, take a look at the pieces and rebuild it they way you want to live your life going forward.

No one says you have to chase women.

Also, I looked up Sciurophobia - fear of squirrels apparently. I ask this only to help, what is your normal attitude in general? Optimistic, fearful, paranoid, brooding, etc?

Post: #22

The manosphere can be an overcorrection for a lot of guys.

You are a 22 year old Canadian so it's likely you have been programmed by society and your parents to believe in a lot of incorrect ideas like all women are always innocent, altruistic, victims, equal or better than men in every way (except when being a victim yields a better result for them), etc.

You find the manosphere and it turns your world upside down because so much of it seems logical and correct.

The manosphere is mostly logical and correct but it focuses on the negative aspects of women which is a natural response to society focusing on the positive aspects of women and negative aspects of men.

So the manosphere is correct but it is only part of the story.

It takes time to internalize all of this so the "you'll grow out of it" answer is actually correct.

I suggest that you stop reading the negative websites in the manosphere and find more positive material.

Take a break from women for a while if you need to do that and work to improve yourself in other areas.

Eventually you will want to pursue women again because that is what your biology and psychology will push you to do regardless of the seemingly logical arguments that your conscious brain is coming up with now.

When you get back in the game, focus on the positive.

Post: #23

(05-29-2016 05:59 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  That's basically it. I can see that there isn't really anything there, and the more I read the more I just don't want to be around the opposite sex anymore. I can't understand how anything written on this or other websites would make me want to pursue game.

You are correct in this belief.

The argument, then, is that if you think deeply on any topic at all you will reach a similar conclusion: in truth, nothing is worth doing.

You are falling into nihilism. It is a very normal problem to have, and actually a bit surprising that at your age you do not recognize it immediately. Why do you think that is? Roosh wrote recently about this same topic when he discussed Tolstoy's Confession: http://www.rooshv.com/does-life-have-inh...ief-in-god

I am saying that if you think long enough about anything you realize it is shit. This is what is happening to you.

Post: #24

OP seems like a young guy and I think its a good thing that he is questioning.

I will briefly go over the points:

-Women are dumb

This is not a collective verdict of the manosphere. The reality is, most people on this earth are dumb.

-women are not loyal

This is true for most men too. Expecting loyalty from others is setting up yourself for disappointment. Hell, you will see that you will have trouble staying loyal to your commitments and promises. First, try being loyal to yourself. If you accomplish this, you will not need loyalty from anybody else.

-women are like children

This is true. And I love it. I treat all the women in my life like little children, including my mother and grandmother. It's amusing. I have zero complaints about this.

-women are selfish

Selfish doesn't cut it. They are more selfish than your mind can comprehend. They are also naturally caretakers and nurturers. Try experiencing this part of their nature.

Don't forget that men are selfish too.

-women have no sense of justice or honor or comradeship

This is debatable and I believe it is largely dependent on the society, their family, especially father. Just don't trust easily and always try to watch your back. Of course, there will be times when you will still fall flat on your face but that's life. You can't be 7/24 vigilant.

-they'll also sell you and your children up the river for their own benefit and probably falsely accuse you of rape and abuse.

See the previous point.

The truth can often be disturbing. We all know that life is unfair. But that doesn't stop me living my life. The truth about women doesn't stop me from chasing pussy either. Instead, I am thankful to Roosh, this forum and ROK that I didn't dive into some blue pill dream and had to wake up by being divorce raped, cuckolded and out of shape.

I actually envy you that you discovered all of this at a young age.

Post: #25

(05-29-2016 05:02 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  After spending the better part of a year perusing websites like Return of Kings and sporadically reading PUA, neo-masculine, red-pill, and alt-right blogs, I have come to find that I have no motivation to go out and start picking up women. It's the complete opposite.

To put it simply, I've been told all these things that were they about any other group I would be loathe to associate myself with them at all.

Take RoK for example. We have articles about women defecting from North Korea, leaving their families vulnerable to imprisonment and torture. Articles about attractive girls going off to be defiled by wealthy Saudi princes, more then I can count about women secretly loving being objectified and abused, and articles about how easily women fall victim to the one hundred and one varieties of game.

There are pieces that Roosh has written about how game is essentially a high form of clowning, that you're debasing yourself like a performing seal on the off chance you might get your dick wet.

I hear "Women are dumb, women are not loyal, women are like children, women are selfish, women have no sense of justice or honor or comradeship, they'll also sell you and your children up the river for their own benefit and probably falsely accuse you of rape and abuse. So now that you've read all that, we're going to teach you techniques you can use to get even closer to these things."

This is something I simply can't wrap my head around. After reading nearly everything penned on this and dozens of other websites, I've simply become somewhere between numb and slightly disgusted just by being around members of the opposite sex.

How do I drop this feeling so I can actually start meeting women without feeling disgusted, like I'm somehow degrading myself by trying so hard to get approval? Or am I thinking too much into this and just need to somehow let it go?

Basically just have realistic attitude about it; don't think of "women" as inherently more special or innocent than any of the guy friends you hang out with. You probably know guys who are fun to hang out with and you feel comfortable around, but you don't idolize them as perfect or flawless being, l just think of women more like you do your friends or "people" in general instead of assuming that all of the hard truths of human nature go out the window because of the genitals that a person has.

If you don't want to "game" women who aren't wife material than I don't blame you, just don't make the mistake that lots of guys do in
imagining all girls to be perfect Disney princesses or delude yourself into thinking that "marriage and kids" is the be-all end all purpose of life, or that you're "predestined" to have some wonderful marriage just because you saw it in a Disney movie at age 6 or heard it from mommy and daddy or your Sunday school teacher.

(I disagree with people who say worthy women are completely non-existent, but they're harder to find).

Think of them more as "a friend" who you happen to engage in mutual groin rubbing with. And think of women more like "children", even though kids can be cute and fun, some of them are completely spoiled brats who need a spanking.

---

If you're looking for wife material your best bet might be to marry a religious girl; e.x. a Mormon or Christian; though some of them may want you to convert to their faith so keep that in mind.

(As far as all of the skanky women out there, the karma is actually brought on themselves because once they're over the hill and already taken in a couple hundred dicks no one other than the most deseprate chump out there will want them, so they'll spend their golden years as man-hating crazy cat ladies). And assuming they have any kids, I can only the imagine the reaction when grandson finds that nude selfie of grandma when she was 18 years old that she forgot to delete from the internet.