Post: #1

Over the years, I've had different builds as part of my fitness.
My main fitness pursuit is martial arts - traditional kung fu and Taekwondo before that.

Red pill philosophy talks a lot about "getting big" and building big muscle. Potentially to the detriment of other attributes.

But how do people (yourself, females, AND others) feel about other body types being "alpha" or even "super alpha".

Here's some examples.
1)A highly athletic footballer ("soccer") physique. Less bulk but potentially explosive power. Or the sprinter's physique.

2)A non heavyweight boxer. Typically large abs, strong neck, but much less chest, lats, arm bulk etc.

3) A more low key physique, less "in your face" but with devastating alpha qualities. For instance, a "Speznas"/SAS military style physique eg huge amounts of stamina/plyometric power, but little raw muscle bulk.

4)Martial arts physique that can smash bricks etc or smash baseball bats on your shins/head. I'm thinking Iron Shirt/that sort of thing.

In particularl, a physique that might be rather skinny, but capable of somewhat superhuman acts. Think the younger Bruce Lee or far old Tai Chi masters etc. A big benefit of these physiques is that they also put huge emphasis on long term health and vitality. I've seen 65 year old Chinese who genuinely look 30 or so years old.

Jason Statham famously said something like "anyone can build muscle, its what you can do with your body that counts".

Ofcourse each physique has its own plus/negative points.
What are your views on having an "alpha physique"?
How do you think it relates to others?

Post: #2

To add to Statham's sentiment, it's how you express yourself physically that makes all the difference - posture, gait and general movement all need to come from a place of confidence.

Post: #3

Having spent a lot of my youth surrounded by World Class bodybuilders, I can assure you that muscles and "alpha", whatever the hell that is, do not go hand in hand as a matter of course.

"alpha" is a state of mind.


(It's odd you I should read this today as last night my massage was disturbed by a very large, very roided, tattooed Russian thug as he entered the establishment making lots of "look at me noise"; anyway, I was smiling inwardly thinking about the old Once Were Warriors bar scene but mostly that if he was indeed the Russian Gangster he made himself out to be, when he got home he would probably be bowing and scraping and shaking with fear at some small wiry bespectacled Russian Mafia boss).

Post: #4

Anyone can build muscle but anyone can do things with their muscles at well. I don't think that quote is very witty or intelligent; if you have huge muscles, you're going to be very strong and being able to move large objects with efficiency is an act (of doing). Judging by the "World Games" bodybuilding is a sport like any other. Bodybuilding is the only sport where you get to carry your achievements visibly day in day out.

The feats of Bruce Lee have been exaggerated more or less. Sure he was in excellent shape, at least until his injury, but most of the feats of his were odd, obscure or undocumented and we do not know how he would have fared in events or challenges that are commonly practiced.

As I understand it, some old time martial arts emphasize conditioning that is nowadays considered harmful and abusive as arthritis and nerve damage can result. Some of the conditioning may well be down to bones getting genuinely tougher and also the pain response growing duller due to the nervous system firing differently from prolonged exposure. This explains how some martial artists can withstand blows in the testicles without flinching but I doubt it's healthy either way.
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Bodybuilding, as long as you avoid movements that compromise your spine, is perhaps the safest form of 'iron shirt' there is as muscles serve to protect joints and the spinal column from injury. I've heard of high level bodybuilders getting into vehicle accidents or experiencing other serious collisions and where the conclusion has been that if it was not for their muscular physiques, they would have either died or they would have a completely shattered back as opposed to an injured bad back.
I cannot overemphasize the importance of good form and straying away from conventional wisom as to the popular compound lifts though as you can degrade and herniate your discs badly by going hard on these so called "bang for your buck" lifts.
Even Bruce Lee's famous injury was supposedly sustained performing the good morning exercise (though some sources suggest otherwise). I would have done them without thinking twice back in the day but the thought of jumping at such exercises again makes my skin crawl as I have experienced enough injuries to know better.

Post: #5

The problem with an athletic soccer player, or Bruce Lee, style physique is that in normal clothing you'll just look small. In 90% of social environments you'll be in (ie, anything that involves wearing clothing) its useless. Being large and muscular is in general far more noticeable.

Post: #6

There is no such thing as an alpha body type. Skinny weak hipster dudes can be "alpha" it all comes down to how you carry yourself, your body language, your character, etc.

The reason we here in this community promote the idea of lifting weights and growing muscle is because not only is it an exercise in discipline, self improvement, mind>body etc, but in general most females are attracted to men who have a good muscular physique. As well looking bigger generally creates a sort of passive DHV or a "dont fuck with me" vibe just from first glance.

EDIT: To give you an example, all of the golden era alphas-type-men we reference often in film and pop-culture from the 50's, 60's and 70's were not jacked. They all had very "average" body types. Being large and muscular is a cultural thing, but having a commanding presence and being charismatic is timeless.

Post: #7

There are only two factors which matter: Intimidation factor to other males and direct sexual attraction from females.

Big is intimidating to other males and this simply has a lot of benefit if you're in nightlife and in general social dynamics, women pick up instantly when a smaller man steps aside or keeps distance due to being intimidated. This makes women wet, even if they will strongly deny it.

Sexual attraction is in my experience much more cultural. Less educated women seem to prefer larger physiques, strong arms, big chest, most likely due to coming from blue collar, military cultures where the dominant males are also the strongest males usually. Upper class women strongly prefer height and being slim. Think a typical British gentleman physique, tall, wide shoulders, bulk will usually be seen as low status due to the blue collar connection.

If you wanted to cook it down:

Blue collar: Boxer physique

Upper class: Rower physique

Best for all women: Swimmer physique

Post: #8

Gymnastics at higher levels produce extremely well rounded physiques, particularly strength based gymnastics like still rings. My entire workout routine these days is alternating between still rings (pull) and handstand orientated workouts (push) with some light acrobatics in between for fun, I used to do body building when younger and I basically look the same, at least in my mind.

Post: #9

CBW nailed it. Physique has very little to do with whether somebody is 'alpha' or not. Anyone that thinks it does should get out and meet more people and get more experiences. I'm not saying this from a position of thinking I'm some kind of alpha, but because I've been going out a long time and in nightlife there are a lot of extremely alpha individuals.

Post: #10

Definitely many ways to have an impressive physique.

Guys aspiring to men's health/ bodybuilder physiques are getting it wrong if that's not going to come easy for them due to genetics. IMO the goal should be - look powerful, in whatever way suits your body best.

As OP say there are many ways to look powerful:

-ripped lightweight boxer
-tall broad rower
-tough heavy rugby prop
-springy long-jumper

Even heavily obsese guys can look powerful and will attract girls who like "cuddly" guys, if they're broad with good posture, pecs, thick forearms etc..

If a guy looks like he can generate force, speed, acceleration - or could take big hits and not budge, then IMO he looks "powerful" and thus will be attractive.

There are some red flags that signal a distinct lack of power:

-skinny forearms
-hunched computer posture
-pencil neck/no traps
-no ass
-stick-thin legs
-skinny fat- thin arms and a belly
-doughy, sagging skin

etc.

Ultimately I agree with others in this thread... physique isn't correlated to alpha-ness, that's much more a social quality. Physique can be a nice pillar in your attractiveness though.

Post: #11

I wouldn't lift to appear more alpha. Who really gives a shit? I lift because I want to live a long and healthy life and I want to look good while living.

Most professional fighters don't look that impressive but they'll kick your ass. That isn't to say that their physiques are superior, but they have a physique built for a specific purpose. Me? I'm not going to be fighting John Jones in the cage, so I'm not training like an MMA fighter.

That might be different for different dudes. I think the best thing you can do is design your physique based on what you need and what you're comfortable with.

Unfortunately, a lot of people feel the need to tear down weight lifters for looking a certain way. I never understood that really. Sure, they don't deadlift as much as you, but that isn't their goal. I always felt like that sort of dick measuring was just a hidden small man complex.

"I'm not as big as he is, but I can do (x) better than him." I hear this often on this forum and I hear this all the time since crossfit is pretty big in the Chinese expat community. As long as someone is comfortable with their physique and not making excuses I don't see the problem.

As far as looking a certain way for women goes, the danger you run into is guys running with it and thinking "if I get physique (x) girls will like me." It's a dangerous position to operate from since it will only end in sadness when the guy realizes that he needs more than just looks to win in the Western dating market.

But whatever.This topic has been done to death. I think we can see examples of guys with every physique imaginable running game and achieving success.

Bottom line:

1. Look how you want to look.
2. Approach
3. Profit???

Post: #12

Generally my opinion is, that you should not workout to look good, but you should look good, because you workout. It´s just one of consequences

I think bodybuilding is totally overrated between men. It´s good to build muscles, but beside that, men should develop more body abilities.... make his body functional.
I like going to gym, but I run the same amount as lifting, do martial arts and generally enjoy the feeling to be good in all possible ways and do everything on above-average level. And that´s how it should be in my opinion.

And the most of the girls prefer not the bodybuilder, but powerful looking guys. I think the key is not to be bulked and weight 120 kg, but to have strong arms, wide back and not skinny legs.

Anyway, as it was said, alpha in not about being fit. I would say it´s about behaviour, the part of behaviour is self-development and part of self-development is keeping physically fit.

Post: #13

^ Again, this all goes into the realm of prescription and "who cares?"

I don't see why guys have a problem with bodybuilders. Some dudes wanna look like Arnold and some dudes wanna look like fighters. It's whatever. Me? I am naturally small so I'd rather look bigger and have "useless" muscles than to look like a powerlifter. Nothing agains those guys (they're strong as fuck) but I don't like how they look usually.

Also, who cares what chicks think? No one built anything worthwhile trying to impress someone else.

You can be alpha without touching a weight your entire life and you can be an alpha bodybuilder.

A lot of bodybuilding boils down to dieting. Guys can get strong while under eating but it's hard to get big and muscular without eating enough. If I'm going to be spending all this time in the gym I want to look a certain way. I have lots of friends who are smaller than me and would kick my ass all day but I don't like their physiques. I'd rather achieve a bodybuilding physique over a fighter's physique.

Post: #14

Doing shit specifically to impress other people, particularly women, will have you exuding beta waves that will dry out vaginas within a hundred mile radius.

Better to be a confident fatty than a zero body fat neurotic.

The second you start doing things for your own sake the sooner people will pay attention to you.

Post: #15

Masculine leads in the old black and white American films fit this category

Post: #16

When I feel good, I'm "alpha." I'm a short Indian guy that's more or less on the skinny side. I think I've done fine.

Post: #17

Some interesting posts there. What I think I'm saying is "bulking up is an option, but just one of several".

Ofcourse lots of mass shows up with your clothes on. But tight fitting clothes is another option. Women can gauge muscularity by looking at waist vs should size, without there needing to be huge muscular cuts developed.

Great bulk precludes you from lots of sports tho. And many women really DON'T like the hardcore bodybuilder look. Notice how some bodybuilders seem to struggle carrying a huge, stiff, sometimes awkward looking frame about. I mean guys like big tits, but not humungous ones. And they can like women with virtual flat chests too.

I noticed today how skinny David Beckham is, and how Olympic sprinters don't tend to be THAT muscular these days.

Personally, I think bodybuilding is ok. But I think the fitness industry is good at overhyping it as the "only solution".

PS as an aside, internal/traditional martial arts are VERY hot on health and preventing problems like arthritis. With good instruction no kung fu person should get these types of problems. Infact the training should enhance their vitality well into old age. And better than pretty much any physically activity. The trick is finding a good traditional instructor and not some "mcdojo" fool.

Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood, even muscular Mike Tyson. None of these were known as weights people. Look at skinny Tommy Hearns and how skinny Lennox Lewis was early on as hweight champ.
And ofcourse the skinny young Bruce Lee as I mentioned. Then you have nearly all "rock stars" etc.

Myself, I just feel comfortable with a level of muscle. My lean weight has varied over 45 lbs over the years from slim to heavy duty. Now I've opted for somewhere in the middle.

Post: #18

Hell no. When someone has an overly bulky physique, one of my immediate thoughts is "security guard/bouncer, made C's in high school". Obviously this is an overgeneralization, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

Secondly, no one really thinks much of the "fitness guy" on social media. They're cool for about 2 minutes before you realize that there's not much going on.

Post: #19

(08-07-2016 11:33 AM)zatara Wrote:  The problem with an athletic soccer player, or Bruce Lee, style physique is that in normal clothing you'll just look small. In 90% of social environments you'll be in (ie, anything that involves wearing clothing) its useless. Being large and muscular is in general far more noticeable.

they don't make fashionable clothing in burly boy sizes.

Post: #20

I think body building is a righteous way to physical self improvement that is also a visual DHV.
With that being said, the idea of a man being Alpha comes before that.
I personally think it stems from three character attributes. Ambition, determination, and motivation.

Looking at body building in a simplified way, I can determine that these men have ambition, or desire to look built. You can see their determination in the muscles that they've beaten down and built up bigger and stronger. I can not immediately sense the motivation for someone to want to be a body builder though ' n conversation, I can get some small idea as to their motivation.
The balance of these traits are apparent in any man who lifts weights on a regular basis.

Take away any one of those traits and you could not succeed for long in weightlifting. Nor would you get very far. At least in my opinion, not without sheer will power or an external reason. i.e., beat up some guy, look intimidating, looking good for women., etc.

to answer the question though, I think a bulky physical physique best displays the "alpha" quality to others simply by way of being physically dominant over personal space. the other fit physiques you mention also display that quality, though none will show through the attire as well as a lifters.

Post: #21

(08-08-2016 08:03 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Doing shit specifically to impress other people, particularly women, will have you exuding beta waves that will dry out vaginas within a hundred mile radius.

Better to be a confident fatty than a zero body fat neurotic.

The second you start doing things for your own sake the sooner people will pay attention to you.

YES - This forum would be way better with a large dose of this attitude.

Guys way overrate physique here which is silly since the whole point of the place is redpill thinking / questioning conventional assumptions / etc.

Post: #22

It's perfectly possible to look 'alpha' without particularly big muscles, lots of guys do this successfully every day.

So long as you are within a broad definition of 'in shape', which may be 25% bf or more depending on your frame, and you don't look excessively flabby or jowly then your physique is not what's going to determine if you're perceived as 'alpha' or not - at least not by other guys that are alphas. Big, mean looking guys get stabbed to death every day by prepubescent kids with screwdrivers trying to prove their worth to some gang or another.

It's certainly desirable to look as good as you can within reason, but it is important to remember that there are only so many hours in a day, and to get really huge and muscular is a full time commitment, even for guys who have great genes for it. Most guys will look plenty 'alpha' by training 3-5 days per week for an hour a day, eating moderately and healthily most of of the time, and not drinking excessively. Beyond this, what will affect how you are perceived by others is how congruently you project yourself on the world. Plenty of big guys aren't intimidating, just as not everyone who wears a pocket square is smooth as weasel shit. You must work out what sort of person you are, and put that version of yourself in the world as confidently as you can.

If you're smart, with very little interest in athletics, then you should spend a few hours per week in the gym doing basic resistance training to stay mobile, healthy, and fit enough for day to day life, but there's very little point trying to turn yourself into the Hulk or judging yourself by those standards, because even if you put on the muscle, you will never gain the confidence of the naturally big, athletic guys simply by trying to be one of them. What you can do is use the hours those guys will spend in the gym and on their diet becoming smarter and more erudite. If that is the kind of person you are then you will derive a far greater confidence from focusing on that aspect of yourself. It's not an excuse to neglect training all together, or to become a game-less recluse. It is simply a case of realising that we have different talents and time is generally spent best maximising those talents rather than chasing hard after ones that really belong to others.

Personally I think the best thing any man can do to maximise how 'alpha' he is perceived as is to work hard on being charming. There is nothing to my knowledge which is more universally winning and attractive than having great charm. Conversely, few things are more suggestive of a deficiency of character than a complete lack of charm. Without it, unless you are born into a hereditary position of power, you will never eat from life's top table. David Niven is a useful guy to study if you want to see what great charm looks like.

Post: #23

The lean athletic look suits me the best, I already eat enough as it is, I couldn't imagine having to maintain 30 or 40 more pounds of muscle.

Post: #24

(08-17-2016 11:29 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  It's perfectly possible to look 'alpha' without particularly big muscles, lots of guys do this successfully every day.

So long as you are within a broad definition of 'in shape', which may be 25% bf or more depending on your frame, and you don't look excessively flabby or jowly then your physique is not what's going to determine if you're perceived as 'alpha' or not - at least not by other guys that are alphas. Big, mean looking guys get stabbed to death every day by prepubescent kids with screwdrivers trying to prove their worth to some gang or another.

It's certainly desirable to look as good as you can within reason, but it is important to remember that there are only so many hours in a day, and to get really huge and muscular is a full time commitment, even for guys who have great genes for it. Most guys will look plenty 'alpha' by training 3-5 days per week for an hour a day, eating moderately and healthily most of of the time, and not drinking excessively. Beyond this, what will affect how you are perceived by others is how congruently you project yourself on the world. Plenty of big guys aren't intimidating, just as not everyone who wears a pocket square is smooth as weasel shit. You must work out what sort of person you are, and put that version of yourself in the world as confidently as you can.

If you're smart, with very little interest in athletics, then you should spend a few hours per week in the gym doing basic resistance training to stay mobile, healthy, and fit enough for day to day life, but there's very little point trying to turn yourself into the Hulk or judging yourself by those standards, because even if you put on the muscle, you will never gain the confidence of the naturally big, athletic guys simply by trying to be one of them. What you can do is use the hours those guys will spend in the gym and on their diet becoming smarter and more erudite. If that is the kind of person you are then you will derive a far greater confidence from focusing on that aspect of yourself. It's not an excuse to neglect training all together, or to become a game-less recluse. It is simply a case of realising that we have different talents and time is generally spent best maximising those talents rather than chasing hard after ones that really belong to others.

Personally I think the best thing any man can do to maximise how 'alpha' he is perceived as is to work hard on being charming. There is nothing to my knowledge which is more universally winning and attractive than having great charm. Conversely, few things are more suggestive of a deficiency of character than a complete lack of charm. Without it, unless you are born into a hereditary position of power, you will never eat from life's top table. David Niven is a useful guy to study if you want to see what great charm looks like.

In my not so humble opinion some people may be discouraged by the myth espoused by some bodybuilders that weight training is hard. It's actually one of the least time consuming activities out there. There's even stories out there of Mr. Olympia contenders going drinking and binge eating prior to contests. Compare this to running tens of miles a day like some marathon champs do or having to deal with other people's bullshit and egos and get bruised on a regular basis several times a week (martial arts).
Unless a guy is serious about a sport that requires him to carry less mass, I don't see any reason why the average guy should not bodybuild as long as he does not waste his money on useless supplements, wreck his spine with risky movements or just obsess about it needlessly because the only thing that counts is performing a few simple movements consistently a few times a week in his home gym. It's a low hanging fruit that remarkably few (though quite a few still) have grasped.

Post: #25

(08-16-2016 11:16 AM)the chef Wrote:  they don't make fashionable clothing in burly boy sizes.

I don't know where you're living but I'd consider myself relatively large at 6ft0 210lb and I've never had any problems getting fitted clothing anywhere in the world outside of Asia. Unless someone's at competitive bodybuilder level (or fat) its not really a problem finding off-the-rack clothing that fits a muscled frame in any fashionable brand.

Plus, if you're shopping for anything properly high end its going to made-to-measure anyway.