Post: #1

I’m creating this thread so the forum has a place to discuss political persuasion techniques going forward after the election. The Donald Trump thread moves way too fast and, although I really enjoyed Samseau’s post-election thread, I wanted a thread specifically dedicated to how right-leaning and neomasculine men can win the hearts and minds of the public over the next several years. Trump went against all odds to narrowly but definitely win. A big part of the reason this happened is that the right finally started arguing in ways the left didn’t want us to, and probably just in time. We need to refine and triple down on what works, if we’re going to further our successes in the future. Here are the persuasion/propaganda ideas I have so far:


Harnessing Language
There’s an old question: Can you think without using language? You (sort of) can, but not very well. Once you learn how to talk, you start to think of virtually everything in terms of language. Therefore when you control the language, you control thought (1984, anyone?). This has been part of the reason for the left’s successes. They will misuse normal words or even make up new ones – “racism”, “privilege”, “transphobia”, etc. This sets the frame in which most people think, and what has crippled conservatives pre-2016. Using language that is ours is one way to combat this.

For example, you know how the left will use “fascist” as a slur, even though 99.9% of the people they use it against aren’t actually fascists? It’s time to use “liberal” in the same way. Just like the left made fascist synonymous with bully, it’s possible to make liberal synonymous with liar in the public mind. Using it in the "wrong" context, and doing it enough, could help us win the thought-war.

Short phrases can be good, too (although some people would technically consider them to be memes). “Liberalism is a mental disorder” is one that already exists, and it can work so well when you consider how violent or suicidal many liberals acted after the election – or how feminists act every day. Use that phrase every time a leftist makes some kind of death threat or particularly idiotic statement, and people may begin to associate leftism with mental illness.


Meme Warfare
It’s hard for me to say “meme warfare” with a straight face, but that’s honestly a good description of what happened this election cycle. Try arguing facts, logic, and statistics with most people and see how well that goes. On the other hand, show them a funny picture with political overtones and you may actually get somewhere. This past year we've seen a bunch of unpaid people, posting pictures of a cartoon frog, do more for the right than any multi-million-dollar cuckservative “think tank” has done in years. Memes work partly because they are so simple, and partly because they are “complete”, so to speak – they leave no room for a leftist to wiggle out of. Consider this one from “Counter-Signal Memes for Fashy Goys”:

   

Yeah it’s simple. Yeah it’s crude. But it’s also pretty funny, cuts to the core of an issue, and probably took less than 10 minutes to make.


Media and Information
We need to have our own information machine (or at least one that is friendly to us) to combat the left’s. We are starting to see this already, with people/outlets like Mike Cernovich, Paul Joseph Watson, and Breitbart getting more popular and more mainstream. I think the fact that Trump is willing to have such a close association with a media figure like Steve Bannon is awesome – he’s not falling for left’s crap about “objectivity” when they clearly have none themselves. There’s not a ton of stuff that most of us can do directly as far as creating new media unless we have the capital to start something, but we can all continue to support good news outlets/individuals.

Another thing we can all do to help is to edit KingsWiki – it’s not media in the sense of news, but it’s a source of information that could be a great help if it gets big enough. I believe Roosh mentioned once that we should make entries on reporters with an anti-Trump bias, and I would add to that any quasi-famous leftist that makes death threats. For both types I’ve already made entries for Joe Bernstein, Monisha Rajesh, and Kevin Allred. For many low-level leftists, this could be their first presence on a wiki. Damaging the reputation of scores of individual leftist minions could damage the reputation of leftism overall, to the average person.


Reading
It would also help all of us to read books to help us have the right mindset when it comes to fighting the left. A classic is The Art of War – of course it isn’t about leftists, and we are not in a physical war, but the philosophy behind this book is fundamental. A big part of it is to position yourself for victory way before the battle even happens. It also argues that it’s not always effective to go in guns blazing – infiltrating, out-maneuvering, and wearing down your enemy can go a long way. Rules for Radicals is great specifically for understanding how leftists think, and how we can use their own tactics against them. Basic message of the book: "fair fights" are for suckers. SJW’s Always Lie is a book that I've heard a lot of good about, and I plan to start reading it soon.


If you have any ideas about how guys like us can win over more people, please post 'em. Ideas for specific situations, groups, regions, etc. are also great. Counter-persuasion, too. There are a lot of smart guys on this forum, I hope we can get a good exchange of ideas going on this subject.

Post: #2

An interesting series of posts from both "The American Left has shown their hand. And we must take it seriously" and "Star Wars: Rogue One comes out in December" threads:

(11-15-2016 11:43 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  I've been having some interesting discussions with fellow RVF'ers in the "Star Wars: Rogue One comes out in December" thread in "Everything Else."

Part of the reason the left have been so successful at subverting our culture is through its use of mainstream media and Hollywood propaganda. We've already seen the recent success of alternative media sites like Breitbart and Drudge, perhaps it's time for us to start venturing into the entertainment realm as well.

LeoneVolpe Wrote:The "Star Wars" franchise is lost, it's gone over to the dark side -- SJWism/identity politics. This film marks the second time in two years, a "strong, independent woman" supported by benevolent minority characters come up against what leftists consider to be the ultimate evil...white males.

It's probably too much to hope for that "Rogue One" will bomb like feminist "Ghostbusters," but I hope it makes significantly less money than the last "Star Wars" film did. The only way Hollywood will stop churning out this garbage is once it starts affecting their bottom line. I, for one, will not spend my hard-earned money funding this type of "entertainment."

We have so much talent on our side, we need to start writing/producing our own red pill infused stories/short films and features to counter the subversive crap coming out of Hollywood.

Belgrano Wrote:Yeah, we need a new hope.
A masculine, high energy, red pill space opera or sci-fi franchise.
There should be enough literary material out there, any ideas?

Alsos Wrote:Given the crybaby backlash against Trump since the election, you can expect all this SJW propaganda shoehorned into every entertainment product to soon be enhanced with gratuitous swipes at Trump and his supporters/voters, in varying degrees of unsubtlety, as new projects work their way through the production pipelines.

weambulance Wrote:I wouldn't adapt anything, as it's much simpler to just write new material for the screen. Anything decent is probably already optioned.

We have loads of talent on our side, and no shortage of ideas. What's missing, frankly, is the huge pile of money needed to get projects off the ground.

(11-12-2016 10:05 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  I could be wrong on this, but I'd have to imagine there would be a number of wealthy, conservative men who would (or at least should) be interested in funding such projects. Unfortunately, I don't have the extra cash. I would love to work with some other red pill guys on writing/producing content, however.

This could be a great opportunity for us. I mean, how long has Hollywood used the medium of film to spread their degenerate bullshit far and wide? I think the time is right for us to start getting involved in this type of thing, to counteract the SJWism in modern films with our own neomasculine-inspired material. The fact our President is Donald J. Trump would suggest there is certainly a market for things politically incorrect.

We wouldn't have to start with feature-length films; well-written and easily distributed "digital shorts" might be the way to go, initially. Plus, their short length would certainly keep costs down.

(11-13-2016 01:08 AM)Alsos Wrote:  (short version of my CAPTCHA-eaten post)

Right. And the key would be to find a way to sidestep/disintermediate the Hollywood machine whose guild rules, contracts, and other scummy business practices lock out talent and innovation.

Which I would love to see. It would take someone motivated and wealthy enough to pony up the cash to be the first mover. Sort of like Elon Musk did with the rocket launch industry. And it would also require talent and crew willing to sacrifice ever finding work in the Hollywood machine in the future - which given the number of waiter-actors and frustrated screenwriters and such, might not be a hurdle. Build an alternative un-Hollywood not bound by SAG rules or micromanaged by psychopaths or governed by an arbitrary groupthink that stifles creativity and other points of view in favor of propaganda and "safe" stories.

The point being that they'd have to be prepared to go all the way - the Hollywood machine will block the normal distribution channels for anything produced outside of it, so even sites like Amazon which disintermediate publishing would likely not sell anything from the un-Hollywood side, lest their own original productions (made under the Hollywood machine) suffer for it in retaliation.

A tall order, but I don't think it's impossible. Just need to find the right red-pilled billionaire, who doesn't merely want to produce movies but replace Hollywood itself. And it can't be a losing business proposition in the long run, when you consider how much talent is locked out due to Hollywood favoring those already plugged into the system (through nepotism, inertia, luck, and occasionally actual ability), or how much talent that is plugged in goes to waste because marketing decisions, petty interpersonal issues, nepotism/connections, guild or union rules, or other secondary concerns block them from roles or projects for which they'd be ideal - and how that often translates to needlessly underwhelming results on the screen.

LeoneVolpe Wrote:This is a culture war. We need to start producing our own "counter culture" content. If we produced some great "digital shorts," perhaps we could feature them on ROK, or an ROK YouTube channel. If YouTube removes the content, we just keep posting it under different accounts, or use alternative websites. If we want to feel out the reaction before officially "endorsing" it on ROK, we can always use cat's paw accounts (not connected to ROK) to test the waters.

Initially, we should keep the length short for both budgetary reasons and to keep people engaged -- nowadays people's attention spans are shit. If the medium of film wasn't powerful, the left would've abandoned it long ago. Look at how homosexuality has gained mainstream acceptance -- which I believe is due in large part to the ever increasing number of homosexual characters portrayed on TV. If people are exposed to an idea long enough they become desensitized to it, and eventually that idea is "normalized."

Think of the positive impact we could have on our culture by spreading neomasculine content instead of leftist degeneracy.

Post: #3

You guys would know a lot more about this stuff than me, but my 2 cents:

1. You'd need to appeal to the centre, and doing that means moderating language and speaking/writing how the general population would understand. Endlessly calling people "cucks", gratuitously insulting Hillary, calling homosexuals "faggots"...you'd only appeal to people who already agree with you, confirm the opinions of those who don't, and put off moderates who are the ones who will listen.

2. You couldn't confine it to RoK, as most people aren't going to read it. It needs to be YouTube friendly, and build a base big enough that enough of them want to spill out to sites like RoK for more reading.

3. Getting the big hitting manosphere and red pill guys on Youtube sharing your videos so they show up in the 'suggested videos' section will be a big win. Anyone who's done interviews / live podcasts with Roosh, and anti-feminist guys like Thunderf00t, Sargon etc will help exponential proliferation.

4. Trump's election shows that the population can be turned away from a political ideology by negativity and insults. The Left lost the election as much as the Right won it. This shows that if you can take the centre, we'll win.

5. Possibly a sub-point to 4: SJWs are a looney lefty bunch of fascists. Don't suppress them, get them nice and triggered, find ways to expose their degeneracy to the moderates. Most people have a visceral, instinctive reaction to hideous, ideological freak shows trying to effectively get their hands on their children. Play on that, but remember not to say anything incriminating just to get a reaction - moderates may think the reaction is justified.

6. Introducing the red pill to moderates in subtle, little doses through drip-drip-drip conversations over time. I have persuaded nearly every colleague from an anti-Trump to mildly pro-Trump viewpoint by playing the unbiased moderate myself. Took a couple of months, but if I can do it so can anyone.

Post: #4

I was thinking about putting up a thread like this last night but in the end decided against.

I'm glad it's up, because I wanted somewhere to dump pictures of leftist assholes being leftist assholes. They are IMO the most visceral and effective means of instantly bringing fence sitters to the side of nationalist patriots.

Post: #5

(11-19-2016 04:33 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  You guys would know a lot more about this stuff than me, but my 2 cents:

1. You'd need to appeal to the centre, and doing that means moderating language and speaking/writing how the general population would understand. Endlessly calling people "cucks", gratuitously insulting Hillary, calling homosexuals "faggots"...you'd only appeal to people who already agree with you, confirm the opinions of those who don't, and put off moderates who are the ones who will listen.
...

The rest of this post is great but I wanted to focus on this bit in particular.

This latest US election drove home an important point for me. The old-media try to push the propaganda that the political lines are set and people are almost always going to vote the way they did last time. There are blue states and red states. etc etc. This election showed it to be bullshit, just as the Regan landslide did.

The truth seems to be closer to this. There is a fringe at either end of the political spectrum that works hard to pull the undecided mass in the middle towards them, like a divorced couple standing opposite each other calling the family dog that's standing in the middle.

In the last four years the Democrats have gotten used to intimidating that dog. Screaming at it and threatening to beat it if it didn't "come to heel", but this election has shown that the dog is sick of that treatment and now responds better to the outstretched hand and the warm glow of a Trumpian smile.

Elections are simply about convincing that mob in the middle that they will be more comfortable under your guy for the next few years. Why did Hillary lose? Because there was no comfort. Obama won because people got the comfortable idea that "at least all that race stuff will be over and done with", and it was incredibly effective, but now it's no longer a viable selling point because it turned out to be fake.

Hillary COULD have won by convincing men she'd bring women more to the centre and stop them being such horrible fucking harpies, but she fucked up. She couldn't come up with a platform that made people think they'd be more comfortable with her than with Trump.

Comfort is important because not many people are going to run on high Trumpian energy for long. Most people settle down into their routine. They need to be shielded from DIScomfort, because they dislike it and by association dislike whatever causes it, even if that's someone badgering them to "get on board the Trump train."

So the strategy is two-fold. You associate your man (Trump) and his people (honest, upright, noble patriots) with comfort.

Alternately you associate the other team (The Clinton Party) and their people (filthy, hateful, weird wreckers) with DIScomfort.

Trump. Honest. Upright. Noble. Patriot. Comfort.

The Clinton Party. Filthy. Hateful. Weird. Wreckers. DIScomfort.

Behind the scenes you can go for the jugular against the left. Rip into them where the public at large is not watching, preferably in a way that looks like friendly fire (pitting islamists against gays for example). But in the public eye you absolutely MUST make your man the man of comfort. Because most people don't want to care about politics. They just want to get on with the rest of their life.

Post: #6

(11-19-2016 07:40 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

If that's not paid protesters I don't know what is.
I was doing sign writing for a bit and those signs ain't cheap, especially that big print in the background.

Post: #7

Great posts, guys! Matsufubu, you make some great points.

Matsufubu Wrote:1. You'd need to appeal to the centre, and doing that means moderating language and speaking/writing how the general population would understand. Endlessly calling people "cucks", gratuitously insulting Hillary, calling homosexuals "faggots"...you'd only appeal to people who already agree with you, confirm the opinions of those who don't, and put off moderates who are the ones who will listen.

Matsufubu Wrote:2. You couldn't confine it to RoK, as most people aren't going to read it. It needs to be YouTube friendly, and build a base big enough that enough of them want to spill out to sites like RoK for more reading.

I think you're right about this. The content should, at first, appear as though it is being produced by someone outside of our sphere. This means no overt references to "neomasculinity," "red pill/blue pill," "cucks," etc., in the content itself, or in whatever the content producers choose to call themselves or their production company. This will help make it more accessible to moderates, and possibly keep us somewhat under the leftist radar until we can gain a bigger following. Such content can, of course, still be shared and promoted by our community via social media.

Matsufubu Wrote:3. Getting the big hitting manosphere and red pill guys on Youtube sharing your videos so they show up in the 'suggested videos' section will be a big win. Anyone who's done interviews / live podcasts with Roosh, and anti-feminist guys like Thunderf00t, Sargon etc will help exponential proliferation.

This is a great idea! Let's say some of us RVF'ers got together and wrote some great content with the aim of producing a series of "digital shorts," we could do some covert coordinating with some of the heavier hitting members of the manosphere to help in distributing said content to a wider audience (e.g. they can share video links via their social media/websites, etc.)

The aforementioned manosphere members should act as though they discovered the material themselves, or heard about it through friends. This will provide plausible deniability for both the heavy hitters and the content producers, so that neither group is making a wholesale endorsement of the other, at least publicly. Content producers can pretend they're just artists and filmmakers looking to tell interesting stories not make political statements (even if that isn't true) and heavy hitters don't have to promote any content they don't want to, only what speaks to them. They're under no obligation to share anything over their social media they don't want to, but will at least know there are agents of RVF looking to work covertly to share/spread our ideas.

Matsufubu Wrote:4. Trump's election shows that the population can be turned away from a political ideology by negativity and insults. The Left lost the election as much as the Right won it. This shows that if you can take the centre, we'll win.

That's what's great about art, it's subjective and thus open to interpretation. As long as we leave room for some plausible deniability, and don't directly out ourselves, we can operate as Hollywood has in promoting an agenda whilst claiming it's just about entertainment.

Matsufubu Wrote:5. Possibly a sub-point to 4: SJWs are a looney lefty bunch of fascists. Don't suppress them, get them nice and triggered, find ways to expose their degeneracy to the moderates. Most people have a visceral, instinctive reaction to hideous, ideological freak shows trying to effectively get their hands on their children. Play on that, but remember not to say anything incriminating just to get a reaction - moderates may think the reaction is justified.

What are some ways we can appear "moderate" yet still expose leftist degeneracy? That seems it could be a bit challenging, but I'm open to your ideas or anyone else's. Perhaps we could borrow from Leonard D Neubache's idea of "comfort" versus "discomfort" to make it look like it's just more fun to join us, the winning team.

I'm reminded of that scene in "The Wrestler" starring Mickey Rourke, where he's discussing the difference between 80's and 90's rock -- how the former was all about having a good time until "that Cobain pussy had to come around and ruin it all," by making everything about the latter depressing. We just have to make the case that our side is the right side, the fun side -- where attractive (non-SJW) women can be found, where men are free to be unapologetically masculine, a "...Paradise City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty."

Matsufubu Wrote:6. Introducing the red pill to moderates in subtle, little doses through drip-drip-drip conversations over time. I have persuaded nearly every colleague from an anti-Trump to mildly pro-Trump viewpoint by playing the unbiased moderate myself. Took a couple of months, but if I can do it so can anyone.

I agree we could utilize a WikiLeaks "death by a thousand cuts" strategy when it comes to content/distribution. We don't do anything in any one single video that's too off-putting to moderates/liberals, but collectively over time as more and more content is produced, our work when viewed as a whole (and not just a part) will make its own case.

Just my two-cents.

Post: #8

Quote:I'm reminded of that scene in "The Wrestler" starring Mickey Rourke, where he's discussing the difference between 80's and 90's rock -- how the former was all about having a good time until "that Cobain pussy had to come around and ruin it all," by making everything about the latter depressing. We just have to make the case that our side is the right side, the fun side -- where attractive (non-SJW) women can be found, where men are free to be unapologetically masculine, a "...Paradise City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty."

Trump's strategy played into what you're getting at effectively, as have a number of other marketing campaigns. At it's simplest people still want to be winners at the end of the day. They want to be able to have fun and relax. Poking at them helps build the frame that leftists are angry, controlling, bitter losers who just act that way because they don't want anyone else to have fun either.

This narrative was extremely effective against religion and the rise of PC allows it to be easily flipped against them.

Post: #9

Now that there is a dedicated thread for it, can we please, please quarantine the use of the words "persuasion" and "persuader" to this thread only? At this point I get a bit queasy whenever I see them used in the Trump Thread and other miscellaneous threads in the Politics forum.

Post: #10

(11-21-2016 11:59 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Now that there is a dedicated thread for it, can we please, please quarantine the use of the words "persuasion" and "persuader" to this thread only? At this point I get a bit queasy whenever I see them used in the Trump Thread and other miscellaneous threads in the Politics forum.

Post: #11

Done reading SJWs Always Lie. Overall it was as good as I expected. Kind of like an antidote to some of the things in Rules for Radicals. I'd recommend buying the book, but if you want something quick that you can easily share, Vox Day apparently also has the "SJW Attack Survival Guide". It's a free PDF of the most important parts of how to recognize/resist an SJW attack. Excellent resource.

Also, if you need any political meme material, don't forget we have our own thread full of good stuff: /thread-54382.html