Post: #1

In early 2016, I began researching investment in precious metals. I had a few reasons for doing so including using gold and silver as hedges against inflation, the possibility of a skyrocket in price if/when the financial collapse occurs, and for having something tangible to barter with in SHTF scenarios. I invested in a small amount of physical silver that I keep with me for the latter scenario, but was concerned about carrying and keeping large quantities of gold and silver on my person over extended periods of time. This lead to further research and my initial discovery of BitGold.

According to its Wikipedia entry BitGold’s "services allow people to purchase gold and make financial transactions using the acquired gold between individuals and businesses." Essentially, a BitGold account is a checking account that is backed by gold (although is convertible into any other currency) instead of a base currency. This was attractive to me for a few reasons:

1. As a disciple of Bitcoin, I liked the idea of getting into something that would be useful both for everyday transactions as well as for long-term investment.
2. Like Bitcoin, transfers are instantaneous and are actually free with BitGold. Granted, transfers have to be made to others with BitGold users, so it is actually more akin to Paypal (except cheaper and faster).
3. With BitGold you actually own physical gold that is managed and stored via Brinks in a worldwide vault of your choosing. You don’t simply own a piece of paper, like you would with GLD or something similar.
4. Purchasing and selling fees are incredible. As of this month, only .5% over spot price is applied on buying and selling transactions.
5. The organization is publicly traded, adding some degree of accountability to its operations (a bit naïve, I know, but better than less transparent organizations).

A few months back, BitGold made the full transition to labeling itself (for more casual use) by the name of its subsidiary GoldMoney (BitGold now redirects to GoldMoney) and all accounts have converted over. GoldMoney has developed partnerships with heavy hitters in the industry, most notably with the acquisition of Peter Schiff’s Schiff Gold Inc (part of his EuroPacific organization) to bolster retail gold and silver offerings and services.

GoldMoney offers debit cards for account holders (I do not have one at this point since investing is my major focus). One can easily set up recurring transfers and can even use a credit card which I like because I would rather not have too many connections to my main personal bank account and it allows me to hit credit card spending requirements when needed. GoldMoney also offers a pretty decent signup bonus, up to 2x the initial investment upon account opening and funding.

Not everyone will agree with GoldMoney’s model and I am still somewhat skeptical that I don’t have the metals in hand. Additionally, Soros is among the organization’s backers. However, with pending currency collapse likely in the near-to-distant future, GoldMoney is an easy way to get started with investing in gold and to dollar-cost-average in (which I do) if one desire’s to and to convert ideal dollars into a more stable form of money.

Schiff (obviously some bias here) talks about GoldMoney for about 8 minutes on his latest podcast. Starts at 29 min mark:

Cernovich linked to David Seaman’s Pizzagate video last night. The last two minutes are devoted to his experiences with GoldMoney (a bit less biased). Starts at the 6:15 mark.

Below are some applicable links:

GoldMoney.com

The Wikipedia entry

GoldMoney YouTube page

Semi-official review

User reviews

Acquisition and more company info

I have absolutely not relationship with GoldMoney and none of these are affiliate links. I simply want to help other RVFers learn about it and to grow the GoldMoney network (more people to transact with, less general reliance on fiat currency). Let me know if you have any questions.

Post: #2

What are the fees to buy with credit card?

Post: #3

As much as we hate Soros, if we know he's backing it then there's a profit to be made.

Post: #4

(11-29-2016 05:47 PM)fortysix Wrote:  What are the fees to buy with credit card?

No additional fees to buy with a CC like with most gold (and other) retailers. CC transfer, bank wire, Bitcoin...all the same; no fees.

Post: #5

(11-29-2016 06:05 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 05:47 PM)fortysix Wrote:  What are the fees to buy with credit card?

No additional fees to buy with a CC like with most gold (and other) retailers. CC transfer, bank wire, Bitcoin...all the same; no fees.

Can you use this to manufacture spend on credit cards? For instance, if I have a 2% cash back credit card, can I cycle my credit limit and just buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card / buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card, sell for cash; and rinse and repeat until infinity?

If I can buy and sell $10,000 worth of gold in a single transaction, I can make 200 per day with my 2% cash back card.

Thoughts?

Post: #6

(11-30-2016 04:51 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 06:05 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 05:47 PM)fortysix Wrote:  What are the fees to buy with credit card?

No additional fees to buy with a CC like with most gold (and other) retailers. CC transfer, bank wire, Bitcoin...all the same; no fees.

Can you use this to manufacture spend on credit cards? For instance, if I have a 2% cash back credit card, can I cycle my credit limit and just buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card / buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card, sell for cash; and rinse and repeat until infinity?

If I can buy and sell $10,000 worth of gold in a single transaction, I can make 200 per day with my 2% cash back card.

Thoughts?

I think in theory that you could, but something tells me that after a while, they may start questioning your behaviors. Obviously nothing illegal on your end, but you may have some 'splaining to do. Also, consider that you'd be losing 1% (.5% buy and sell) so you'd have to ask yourself if it was worth the hassle.

Post: #7

(11-30-2016 06:17 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 04:51 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 06:05 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 05:47 PM)fortysix Wrote:  What are the fees to buy with credit card?

No additional fees to buy with a CC like with most gold (and other) retailers. CC transfer, bank wire, Bitcoin...all the same; no fees.

Can you use this to manufacture spend on credit cards? For instance, if I have a 2% cash back credit card, can I cycle my credit limit and just buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card / buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card, sell for cash; and rinse and repeat until infinity?

If I can buy and sell $10,000 worth of gold in a single transaction, I can make 200 per day with my 2% cash back card.

Thoughts?

I think in theory that you could, but something tells me that after a while, they may start questioning your behaviors. Obviously nothing illegal on your end, but you may have some 'splaining to do. Also, consider that you'd be losing 1% (.5% buy and sell) so you'd have to ask yourself if it was worth the hassle.

ah ok, so there is a 1% charge.

I used to do something similar to the above via other avenues - I had an american express card that granted 5% back on purchases at super markets - what I would do is use the cc to buy gift cards for $500, then use the giftcards to buy a money order at walmart, deposit the money order into my bank account, and then pay off the credit card. My volume was pretty limited, but I knew people that were treating it as a full time job and hitting $1,000,000 per year in purchase and sale of gift cards. The problem is avoiding a shut down by your bank (for depositing so many money orders) but there are ways to get around it. This avenue is not really available anymore because AMEX cracked down on it, but people always look for new opportunities - this may be one, though doesn't seem like it would be really profitable.

I'm always on the lookout.

About a year ago a company offered a "pre-paid debit card" that parents could open for their kids, and the company allowed you to load the debit card with your cc (to an unlimited amount). People hit it hard running like $10,000 loads per day to max out their credit card points, and the company had to discontinue the card. It was pretty comical.

Post: #8

(11-30-2016 06:48 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 06:17 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-30-2016 04:51 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 06:05 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 05:47 PM)fortysix Wrote:  What are the fees to buy with credit card?

No additional fees to buy with a CC like with most gold (and other) retailers. CC transfer, bank wire, Bitcoin...all the same; no fees.

Can you use this to manufacture spend on credit cards? For instance, if I have a 2% cash back credit card, can I cycle my credit limit and just buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card / buy gold, get 2% back, sell for cash, pay off credit card, sell for cash; and rinse and repeat until infinity?

If I can buy and sell $10,000 worth of gold in a single transaction, I can make 200 per day with my 2% cash back card.

Thoughts?

I think in theory that you could, but something tells me that after a while, they may start questioning your behaviors. Obviously nothing illegal on your end, but you may have some 'splaining to do. Also, consider that you'd be losing 1% (.5% buy and sell) so you'd have to ask yourself if it was worth the hassle.

ah ok, so there is a 1% charge.

I used to do something similar to the above via other avenues - I had an american express card that granted 5% back on purchases at super markets - what I would do is use the cc to buy gift cards for $500, then use the giftcards to buy a money order at walmart, deposit the money order into my bank account, and then pay off the credit card. My volume was pretty limited, but I knew people that were treating it as a full time job and hitting $1,000,000 per year in purchase and sale of gift cards. The problem is avoiding a shut down by your bank (for depositing so many money orders) but there are ways to get around it. This avenue is not really available anymore because AMEX cracked down on it, but people always look for new opportunities - this may be one, though doesn't seem like it would be really profitable.

I'm always on the lookout.

About a year ago a company offered a "pre-paid debit card" that parents could open for their kids, and the company allowed you to load the debit card with your cc (to an unlimited amount). People hit it hard running like $10,000 loads per day to max out their credit card points, and the company had to discontinue the card. It was pretty comical.

Yeah, the original Amex Blue was something else. The good old days...

Post: #9

Just got a financial review last month on my old AMEX blue and they've neutered it where none of my drugstore purchases get 5%... Put anywhere from 20-40k a month on it for years so I guess it was a long time coming, but still hurts not to have that guilt-free going out money.

Loads on Goldmoney could be worth it if they accept JCB... they have a 3% CB card. Also, this might be useful for knocking out a big signup bonus on a new card.

Post: #10

I wanted to update this thread with some information that may be valuable to those out there who are interested in hitting credit card spends for the purpose of acquiring certain signup bonuses. While there are a number of ways to hit these spends, one of the most common ones is the gift card -> money order -> bank deposit -> pay off credit card sequence. Between the time it takes to facilitate all of this and the fact that gift cards will run $6-10 per $500 card (plus money order fees), there are some costs (in both time and money) that begin to add up. GoldMoney can make this process much more efficient.

Deposits can be made with bank account transfers AND with CCs, (amongst a few other methods) with only a .5% processing fee. Withdraws can be made to bank accounts also at a .5% clip. So, one can open an account, deposit the necessary amounts required to hit spends via CC, wait for the gold/deposit to post, cash out, and use the previously deposited funds to pay off the card. With a total of 1% fees (plus or minus the fluctuations of the gold market), one can easily hit a spend of $1-10k with under $100 in fees and never have to leave the house.

NOTE: At this time, GoldMoney does NOT allow CC deposits via Amex. This might change in the future, but please consider this if you are considering opening an account an depositing via Amex.

I can vouch that this has worked for me and saves a lot of time and hassle. Let me know if I can explain further or if you’d like a referral link.

Post: #11

Want to make another update. Unfortunately, GoldMoney appears to have caught on that they can milk CC deposits for a bit more than .5 percent and they have added an extra 2 percent to CC deposits. Still can be a valuable tool for hitting credit card spending requirements, but long-term gold investing/purchasing with a CC is much less attractive at this point.

Post: #12

I looked into GM a few years ago, this info may have changed. While they have an audited deposit of gold, its an unallocated account, meaning that if something happens you just have an IOU. This is the the worst way to structure things, and certainly not worth paying a premium. You are better off buying CEF in your brokerage account. Also, they previously had a paypal-like payment ability which they had to shut down for regulatory reasons with little notice. That said, the founder James Turk knows his stuff and any essay he publishes is worth reading.