Post: #1

I began college in late 2008, in my early 20s, disgruntled, and unable to find a direction. (I'd also nearly dropped out of high school but graduated a semester late.) Community college was a breeze, then I partied too hard when moving to a big university and took a year off after nearly flunking out. I was a history major who didn't want to teach, and I wanted something that could mix historical knowledge with something internationally based. I've always wanted to travel extensively, and possibly work for a company or the government under a friendly U.S. presidential administration.

When I returned, I found a major/minor combination - International Studies with a minor in History - that gelled well with this. Sadly, I soon slumped back into my original disgruntled state. I enjoyed just working far more than I did school, and wondered if majoring in something I figured I could learn or figure out on my own was even worth it.

I just got back from studying abroad for two semesters - and this feeling has only intensified, as I was inching toward fluency toward my chosen language overseas, far faster than with any stupid class. I was also reading far more than I ever had and outperforming all of my peers.

I have a year and a half left of school, but due to not wanting to take out more loans (and having limited family help financially), the whole process is going to take about two to two and a half years, since I need to work full time in order to pay rent and tuck away some extra money. I need sleep, so part time school is the only way I can inch toward the finish line.

I want to prepare to live abroad and become fluent in a second (or possibly third) language *now*, not in four to five years, and I'm convinced I can get work, degree or no degree. My family is sympathetic, but they think walking away from 50K of college debt (especially after I'm three quarters of the way there) is foolish. I've not bothered talking to college officials - I know they're going to tell me to stay.

tl;dr - I have over 50K in college debt in a degree I'm convinced I'm probably not going to need. Should I walk away?

Post: #2

A year and a half left is not "almost finished". If you had a semester left, you'd be wise to complete it. But right now, you're throwing good money after bad.

You don't want to go to school, that much is obvious. You also don't have a direction, which is another reason to drop out. And finally, the third strike, your major is worthless.

Your family is falling for what's called the "Sunk cost" fallacy. Basically, it's what a gambler does to justify his (poor) investment after losing a bunch of money. Don't fall for this faulty emotional argument.

What you need to do is figure out what skillset you have that is marketable---basically, what you can do to earn money. It's 2016: You don't NEED a job to make money. Read this article: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/07...get-a-job/

Drop out of college, accept you made poor decisions, work on paying off your loans, and make $$$. That's what you need to do right now---not fuck off and party more like you did in college. Pay off your debt and make money, THEN focus on having fun abroad. Right now, you don't seem to have any sort of plan to make an income for the rest of your life (It doesn't seem like you think you'll be doing your job in ten years).

Bottom line: YOU messed up your life. YOU have to fix it. You came here to get honest, solid advice, not to be coddled. Now you must decide: Do you keep going on the wrong track, or do you make the hard choice and turn things around?

Your move.

Post: #3

I also studied overseas extensively to the point where I stopped studying abroad and started just taking breaks from school to work abroad. That's why I can speak Chinese now. I never would have learned it in a classroom.

I finished up my degree regardless of it's usefulness. I did it for myself and for the life experience I knew I would continue to gain being in a university environment.

Instead of focusing on classes, I focused on my part-time job, which was an excellent opportunity to learn how to deal with people challenging situations. I'd work 20 hours a week even though I had only 12-14 hours of class per week each semester.

I finish off the last year one semester at a time.

My degree subject matter has not been very useful to everyday life or my career. However, people often forget about a key reason to have a 4-year degree. Work visas. There are plenty of countries where you may not qualify for a work visa unless you have a degree.

I'm not using work visas any more, but I did have one for a couple years after I moved back to China after finishing school.

Post: #4

If it's a non-stem major then it's pretty much useless. I would drop out.

Post: #5

Other responses seem to not have a lot of data cited.

Not only is a college degree worth it, the pay differential over non-graduates reached "record highs" as recently as 2014.

I strongly disagree with other respondents, and with the anti-intellectual/anti-humanities bias of some "alt-right" posters in general.

In viewing zoom's reply, look at his data:
"It's a non-stem major.... pretty much useless"

He didn't bother to find supporting data. He just offered an opinion, without even a rationale except, presumably, other people said it. Yeah STEM people probably make more than non stem graduates, but any degree makes more than non graduates on average. Reasoning from exceptions is not good logic.

The "sunk cost" argument sounds sophisticated, but when you factor in the income and intangible potential benefits it is not as strong. So is cherry-picking data, or "n of one":
"My cousin Joey is making more as a welder than my sister made with her stupid English degree. Therefore college degrees are useless."

Here's how someone like me, a published researcher, try to make an argument. I try to find a data source where people know more than me:

Hey, here's the Labor Dept cited in the NY Times. People with doctorates in research, who spent thousands of hours going over pay records. Is it possible this is worth knowing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/upshot....html?_r=0

Which should you listen to?

a) A guy on the internet who says "it's pretty much worthless" with no references, or
b) paid professional researchers with training and access to vast data?

Gee, let me think. OF course, they might be "liberals", so then you should discount everything they say, right?

(If it's only three semesters, unless you have a VERY promising alternative that's lucrative with probably future career path. Like you can save 50k USD in the year you'd otherwise be in college.)

I dropped out of college mid-semester TWICE before I got it together and got my doctorate, which made me the money so I'm sitting overseas with far younger GF giving you free advice.

1) It shows perseverance
2) It shows you're smart enough to want to learn and accept that other people know more than you do.
3) It tends to show you don't have a moderate to severe personality disorder, bad legal problems, severe health problems, and thus overall fitness.
4) It shows the ability to plan something long term and stick to it.
5) It allows you to appreciate your place in the universe , and to enjoy the world more.

All other things being equal, a college degree is most decidedly not useless.

Post: #6

IKE,

I gave my opinion. I'm not under any obligation to research data when the OP is perfectly capable of doing that himself.

(12-01-2016 11:30 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I dropped out of college mid-semester TWICE before I got it together and got my doctorate, which made me the money so I'm sitting overseas with far younger GF giving you free advice.

I'm not sure anyone here should take your advice. Haven't you complained on here in the past about your own financial shortcomings?

Post: #7

Quote:Yeah STEM people probably make more than non stem graduates, but any degree makes more than non graduates on average. Reasoning from exceptions is not good logic.

The only way to know whether the determining factor is the degree is to take half of a graduating class, revoke their degrees, forbid them from any higher learning credentials, and see how they do compared to the control group. Otherwise, it's possible that degree holders make more than non graduates because of some other factor (e.g. degree holders are more likely to have grown up in a nurturing family environment, etc).

That said, I agree with IKE that degrees are not worthless for some of the reasons he listed. And it's irresponsible to give advice with significant consequences (like telling him to drop out) when you have no skin in the game.

Two stories for you: a guy I worked for never went to college, but started a successful company and sold it for many millions. On the other hand, I took a long time to graduate with a "useless" degree and now have a job that pays well (that I would not have without a college degree) and will lead to future entrepreneurial possibilities. If you're looking for someone to affirm your decision, you won't get that from me. Your parents are going to give you advice that leads to lower risk, which might be the right choice or it might not be. Choose wisely and take comfort in the fact that you'll regret it either way (Kierkegaard, maybe my degree wasn't useless after all).

Post: #8

Thanks for your candor, everyone. Due to the fact that I am now ineligible for public loans - just the steep private ones - this forces me to drop out at least for a while, and I can reassess my priorities. I dicked around for too long, but I'm ready to accept the consequences of that - I'm far better with money than I used to be, and I have a stable job with steady raises right now that's at least a start.

I want to spend at least a few years abroad teaching English in the next decade. How many countries flat-out require a degree to do this?

Post: #9

IKE, it isn't that black and white.

On average, having a college degree is better than not having one.

But you have to look at opportunity costs. A guy who started in construction right after high school maybe makes 50K per year. The guy who went to school for business maybe makes 80K. But he might have to pay 700 bucks a month in student loans. He also missed out on 4-5 years of income. He might be better off when he retires, but he's going to have a rougher time in his late twenties and early thirties. The construction guy might work his way into management and make 100K a year. It's impossible to tell who's better off unless you look at individual examples.

Obviously a guy who spent 2 years in community college for welding will be better off than someone who took out 100K in loans to get a women and gender studies degree from a private university.

You can't just say someone with a college degree will always be better off than someone without one.

My ex had friends who got their master's in community health education in order to get jobs that pay 42K per year. It took them 8 years. You'd be better off working your way into management in retail or fast food right out of high school.

Post: #10

On IKE's arguement.

You went to college, so this should be familer:

"Correlation does not necessitate causation."
There are hundreds of reasons college grauduates likely make more money than non-grads. Here are a few examples:

Richer/better family growing up. The "poor" often can't afford to send their children to college.
More intelligent/higher IQ. Yes, in todays academic environment, a pet rock could graduate, however, lets be realistic: Higher IQ makes things easier/more likely.
More likely to follow through on goals set. Completing a 4 year degree necessitates some commitment. This trait alone makes someone far more likely to be financially successful later on.
More likely to live in a city, as opposed to the suburbs or country, where the wages are higher due to cost of living.

Like I said, there are PLENTY of other reasons why college grads are more likely to make more money than non grads. Simply saying "Oh, college grads make more money" without doing a controlled study is completely useless statistically speaking.

Post: #11

As mentioned, correlation doesn't imply causation. Third-factors contribute to both going through college and becoming wealthier.

OP, like Suits said, there are other reasons you might want to get it, such as visa qualifications, even if you never use it for its purpose. On that note, some countries offer even greater concessions for higher degree holders too.

Post: #12

As a recent dropout from a graduate program, I would strongly, strongly consider the mental toll this will take on you, especially if you'll consider returning in the future. Being behind and much older than your counterparts is mentally taxing.

This is not only my advice but countless other dropouts have said the same thing, notably Sam Harris, who was asked 'what's the one thing you regret?' In typical backpedaling fashion he said 'I don't regret anything, because my choices have made me who I am, bla bla bla, but... I wish I wouldn't have 'taken time off' during my undergraduate degree.' He goes on to recommend not dropping out of college.

He eventually finished his undergraduate degree in philosophy (non-STEM) from Stanford after 'taking time off' 11 years later, and later completed a PhD in neuroscience. It is very different to 'take time off' after finishing a degree, which many people recommend, compared to 'taking time off' without finishing a degree and returning later. Again, the mental toll is nothing to sneeze at.

Good luck.

Post: #13

Do you plan on dying tomorrow? Probably not.
Can you imagine yourself living at least another 10 years?
By now I bet your saying "duh Motherfucker - whats your point?"

The conclusion I have come to is that you have regret for not studying a STEM field.
On the other hand, there is a great chance you are not dying anytime soon.

So set aside just 30 minutes a day, sleep less at night if you have to.
http://www.CodeAcademy.com
http://www.FreeCodeCamp.com

Pick Javascript, HTML5 and CSS3.

Half an hour a day and in 6 months you will be proficient enough to get paid to do this by an Employer.
Bonus Points: 1 hour a day and in a full year you will be at a level where you can start your own one man Software Development Hustle.

Where you go from this advice is up to you.

Post: #14

Full Disclosure: I have two degrees and they have served as useful door openers for me. I am, however, in my 50s and the world today is a different place.

(1) Other countries may be different, but in the USA the high school system teaches you how to memorize things. The university teaches you how to think. This is important for your personal development.
(2) Today, a degree does not work as well as it used to as a door opener. You need more. Don't rely on a degree to solve your problems.
(3) For career prospects you should use the college/university more for its networking opportunities.

The last reason is why you should stay in school. Use it for establishing connections - through internships and professor recommendations. If you are at a school where you cannot gain these connections, then you are at the wrong school and I would consider dropping out. Establishing connections should be your most important goal from day 1.