Post: #1

Shy Boys:IRL


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<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/28466163">Shy Boys: IRL</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/saragardephe">Sara Gardephe</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

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https://vimeo.com/28466163


At night, sometimes your mind wanders and you end up trying to solve a problem or remember a name from years past just cause. That's what brains do, they think. They wander. Tonight was one of those nights. I came across this video after doing some googling trying to remember the name of the food blogger that killed himself due to his frustration with women. You might remember him as Wilkes McDermid.

There was an ROK article about his suicide with details about his chilling suicide note.

Let me just tell you, the internet is really a fucking rabbit hole that can take you some strange places. I was so shocked watching this video because of how much of an accurate depiction it gives of the forgotten men and boys in society. Your incel. For those not familiar with the term, it means involuntarily celibate. Also known as no pum pum syndrome, Sahara-itis and the 4chan flu. However all jokes aside, this wasn't funny when I watched it.

The video follows members of a forum called loved-shy. It's a forum started by extremely sexually frustrated by a man named Michael. He developed the website to help men who were looking for a platform to express their dissatisfaction with their incel status or difficulty with women. Guys that were much like himself. Members including the founder Michael are followed around for what seems to be a day and questioned about their lack of success with women. And this shit is where shit gets dark.

This shit is hella spooky. Particularly Michael.

He reminds me of so many of the guys that I've bumped into that are decent people but never really got a chance to be socialized and be normal. Not only that but they never learned that the sexual marketplace isn't somewhere you go to barter with emotions. The 'nice guy' is just a platitude to the average woman or girl in 2016. His social short comings in this movie show you how important the ability just to communicate is. His inability to connect to human beings pushed him to a state of being fearful of meeting new people but I feel is unassertiveness is what cripples him the most.

When your social skills are stunted, the best advice you can get from your mother is to be yourself, and you chose 4chan over your prom night, this is the end result. There are so many guys like this that we all pass on the street daily. The guy that never even got the chance to get burnt. To learn the lessons that get you googling, that bring you to an RVF, a Doc Love, Corey Wayne or a Tariq Nasheed. They never even got an introduction to game, or running game, or even having the opportunity to stumble their way on to a path of those who have done it better and bigger before them.

However, Michael isn't the character that got the most pity from me. Another forum member who goes by the name Advanced is one of the saddest sights I've ever seen. Skip to 17:55 if you want to see the poster child for the AFC. I posted this here cause I think this is a true reflection of a reality that a lot of guys face, particularly guys that grew up behind a computer screen. I thank god every day I learned what I did about women and lost my virginity early in my mid teens.

Ultimately our purpose as men is to pass on our genes and further society and our footprint in it. When your denied even the chance to do that, even one single attempt in decades of living, it can seriously mess with where your head is at and your motivation for life. Why do anything when there's no economic or sexual pay off?

There are also two other members of the forum that operate more under the PUA wing, but they really weren't what I was focused on as I watched this. However, they add context to the broad spectrum of frustration: the guys who want nothing to do with women, the guys who resent them because of the lack of access/past failures, and the guys immersed in theory that don't live it. The guys that, for lack of a better phrase, don't got shit but shit.

It's a sad sight to see and what I personally took from this was the importance of inner game. So many of life's battles are fought in your head before they are won out in the actual world.

After I finish watching a video I always check the comments to get a feel for where the general consensus is of the audience and I got a lot of what I expecting.

"They're not entitled to sex", "The patriarchy creates pressure that makes men feel pressure to conform", "Not all girls have it easy", "This is pathetic", "I actually think Michael is cute", blah blah blah. Rough paraphrasing but enough of a gist for you to see the problem. Root causes never get addressed in our society. It's easy to yell at a dude and tell him he needs to get himself a suit, a pocket square and some kratom, however that's not enough to get past the pain so many guys have deep inside them.

I remember a lot of my own frustrations in figuring out women, especially when I was refusing to believe we (men and women) aren't equal and ARE different to the point where we might as well be a different species. It's disorienting and exhausting. You feel like your fighting for basic cooperation and dehumanizing yourself in a relationship, not getting the replies you want and/or constantly dealing with flaking. Feeling less than a man at all the twists and turns of your life is something I don't wish on my worst enemy. Skip to 29:35 to see Michael talk about how he wish he could erase his existence from the earth with a genuine smile on his face. It's spooky cause of the accuracy in his depiction of desperation. Hella spooky.

All these challenges we face can make for a rewarding journey if you find the right resources or have real-deal mentorship. But those are BIG ifs. Next time your pissed off because you fell short of adding a 30th flag to your belt or a threesome fell through, or your 4th date of the week fell through, remember there is a guy in his 30's who is willing to sacrifice his limbs to get a kiss. This is a must watch.

Post: #2

Why would we want to watch that depressing shit?

Don't like to talk about the past, but I could easily have ended up a 30s incel if I'd stayed paying attention to and relying on friends, teachers and family, and it hadn't been for unilateral massive mentality transformation and personal upheaval.

Those young men's authority figures are his own enemy. And its hard for someone to come to that conclusion inside the bubble. The best move any of them can make, is to accept that fact, and without giving thought to retribution against those enemies, pretend they never existed, pretend their prior selves never existed, and that this year's birthday is your first; then sell everything you own, quit, move as far away from where you are now as you are able, find new qualified mentors and father-figures, and work like a dog rebuilding yourself.

Post: #3

I think people should watch this for the perspective it gives. Most commentary you get about the situation of the modern man has a feminist snark and bias to it, blaming the men for all their shortcomings. The film maker really allowed for the guys to be represented by their stories and touched key concepts regularly discussed on RVF.

However Phoenix I agree, when you're that low up is the only direction left and starting over may be your only option.

Post: #4

I clicked on it cause I wanted to see something "hella spooky" as you described.

I made it a few minutes in. Skipped around a bit. Turned it off.

I didn't find it spooky. Just pathetic and uninteresting. I guess I'm a monster huh, cause I really don't give a shit about these guys cause they don't give a shit about themselves.

Post: #5

There's nothing noble about the pain that those guys are suffering. To be honest it makes me uncomfortable watching incels like that.

It's pretty disgusting that they never had role models to give them the knowledge they need to work on themselves. Just surrounded by blue-pill 'Stay in your lane' types who will castigate them if they naturally move even the slightest towards a more masculine demeanour. Its abusive.

I'm glad I didn't end up like one of those guys.

Post: #6

Many years ago, I was very much like those guys so I can relate. But thank God, in my 20s I went though a massive transformation similar to what Phoenix described.

Today, whenever I see broken dudes around me, I occasionally ask myself what was the trigger that pushed me to leave my comfort zone, abandon my ego and start improving myself. Was it some inborn character trait, or was it pure luck/inertia?

I still haven't found the answer to that question, and because of that I never allow myself to judge these guys too harshly. To live like them would be appalling and unworthy of a man (been there, done that), but I don't want to be too prideful - who knows, under a different set of circumstances maybe I would have remained just like them. I take my red pill every day, but I always take it with a hefty dose of gratitude.

Post: #7

These fags just need to bang some whores, get in a few fights, do some hard drugs, get some tats and get on the TRT, problem solved brahs.

Post: #8

Random thoughts.

These are not guys who are going to change unless something is really shoved up their ass, or such social groups as they have break up. The ego does not want change. Bizarre as it sounds, being sexless is part of these guys' identities, as innate to their egos as the colour of their skin, even if they hate it.

Take the user "Advanced": he outright says he needs to appear intelligent on film and so cannot talk slowly. It's fairly obvious in his case that his entire identity as an intelligent guy who is out of step with the rest of the species and therefore incel is a front: it is a psychological defence mechanism. It keeps him away from having to make any changes to his personality. What society views as a crippling defect, your ego handily turns into a point of difference, distinction, individuality.

This is also shooting fish in a barrel because it's a cunt who's interviewing them. Indeed, given the faintly pitying tone of this piece, just holding back off outright mockery, that was probably deliberate: these guys wouldn't be saying stuff like this to a male interviewer.

It's something of a chicken-and-egg scenario, but when you start out fucking awkward at school, if you get enough reinforcement of that fact, you start to form your personality around that awkwardness. It becomes part of who you are, which is a really bad situation to be in, because not only do you have to cope with your own incompetence at being with women, you have to fight your own ego that wants the status quo, that wants the comfortable assurance of that what you're likely to do today is what you did yesterday and got you through the day without getting eaten by a bear.

Make no mistake, this is a very difficult thing to change: even somebody like Mike Cernovich confesses he has times when he still thinks he's a no-hoper kid from a poor home, and that's after pretty heavy exposure to some of the most potent psychological programming tools mankind has to offer, not excepting drugs.

While their environment remains the same, while their friends remain the same, nothing will change in their lives. We are the sum total of the 5 people we hang out with most.

"Advanced" is a demonstration of the principle that 10,000 hours of doing something is meaningless unless you are actively considering, actively improving what you do during those hours. Someone who does 1,000 approaches and still can't get laid is, simply put, lying about his number or is using the same bad strategy again and again, either out of cluelessness or because unconsciously he doesn't want to be in that terrifying situation of having your gear off, naked, unprotected and utterly vulnerable to a woman laughing at you having a small dick.

Don't think he's unaware of his deficiencies, either: the guy outright chooses to talk fast in order to appear intelligent, as he says. Despite that self-awareness, that sense of how he appears to others, does he look like someone who has actively adjusted his approach at women, tried different styles of clothing, tried a different haircut, tried recording his own voice to hear how it sounds to women?

Very doubtful: doing that sort of shit would make him look weird or strange to the guys he hangs out with, because none of them are changing their styles either. Odds are on that bar his clothes, he hasn't changed one thing about himself since he left high school. Also see: what I just said about the ego not wanting change.

As Last Psychiatrist tells us: the common factor in all your failed relationships is you.

I don't know if the rest of the documentary went to look at their families, but I would guess one of two scenarios: a single mother household, or a household where it might as well have been. These guys are conformists. And conforming is the great female virtue, because women shame one another to get what they want: girls bully by words, boys by fists.

These guys have been well-behaved their entire lives, whether because they were conditioned that good boys don't tell Ma to go fuck herself, or because they were conditioned that if they got good grades and saved themselves to fuck college life rather than women, the rest of it would sort itself out. Rebellion, pushing, growth: these were all seen as "jock" activities, which their fathers did nothing real to combat or clarify. Quite the contrary, their fathers either didn't understand them and suspected they were gay, or essentially ignored them because said father hated his own Dad (Baby Boomer generation, remember) and therefore the connection through which masculinity is passed down was broken.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #9

One or two of these guys literally looked like women.
There is your problem.

Post: #10

(12-03-2016 04:56 AM)Speculation Wrote:  It's pretty disgusting that they never had role models to give them the knowledge they need to work on themselves. Just surrounded by blue-pill 'Stay in your lane' types who will castigate them if they naturally move even the slightest towards a more masculine demeanour. Its abusive.

It made me uncomfortable as well but I feel like there's a lot that can be learned through watching the documentary, especially for anyone who's made a personal transformation as many of us have. Abusive though? Most definitely. One of the things I realized when first searching for what would turn out to be 'red pill perspective' was that as a someone with a dick (read: man), I'm trained to look for solutions. However, what happens when all the solutions you find on google, or in your social circle or from your mother take you from point A to point A? That's more what I reflected on watching this. I share a lot of your same opinions regardless though.

(12-03-2016 09:38 AM)Khan Wrote:  Today, whenever I see broken dudes around me, I occasionally ask myself what was the trigger that pushed me to leave my comfort zone, abandon my ego and start improving myself. Was it some inborn character trait, or was it pure luck/inertia?

I still haven't found the answer to that question, and because of that I never allow myself to judge these guys too harshly. To live like them would be appalling and unworthy of a man (been there, done that), but I don't want to be too prideful - who knows, under a different set of circumstances maybe I would have remained just like them. I take my red pill every day, but I always take it with a hefty dose of gratitude.

This is more the discussion I was looking to have. Great point Khan. I was hoping to get more personal reflection like this from experienced members. It made me think how lucky I am to have had certain things happen to me as far as personal development. So much of life is really just chance. Pure probability. Some of the most insignificant things like playing basketball, having a girlfriend early, and having a sense of humour saved my ass from becoming something resembling this. However at the time those things were happening I wasn't thinking about how to not become an incel. I was seeking out fun and unknowingly ways to further myself in my environment. Booty tag and red rover on the playground can save a young guys life. Literally. Look at how Michael talks at the end about wanting to not exist. I've definitely met a few guys who had lost hope and completely turned inward on themselves, particularly a close friend of mine who ended up losing his virginity to an escort at 22. I remember him bragging about taking a girl out for a walk at 18, but the way he was talking on the phone, it sounded like he just had a threesome. I reflected back and saw some of these guys in him

(12-03-2016 10:14 AM)scotian Wrote:  These fags just need to bang some whores, get in a few fights, do some hard drugs, get some tats and get on the TRT, problem solved brahs.

Maybe so. I feel like this is more red pill theory from the comment section from ROK though. I think their problems run deeper than that. You're definitely right that a major life style change is needed. They might need to get on a plane and go to Colombia with you.

(12-03-2016 11:13 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Random thoughts.

These are not guys who are going to change unless something is really shoved up their ass, or such social groups as they have break up. The ego does not want change. Bizarre as it sounds, being sexless is part of these guys' identities, as innate to their egos as the colour of their skin, even if they hate it.

Take the user "Advanced": he outright says he needs to appear intelligent on film and so cannot talk slowly. It's fairly obvious in his case that his entire identity as an intelligent guy who is out of step with the rest of the species and therefore incel is a front: it is a psychological defence mechanism. It keeps him away from having to make any changes to his personality. What society views as a crippling defect, your ego handily turns into a point of difference, distinction, individuality.

This is also shooting fish in a barrel because it's a cunt who's interviewing them. Indeed, given the faintly pitying tone of this piece, just holding back off outright mockery, that was probably deliberate: these guys wouldn't be saying stuff like this to a male interviewer.

It's something of a chicken-and-egg scenario, but when you start out fucking awkward at school, if you get enough reinforcement of that fact, you start to form your personality around that awkwardness. It becomes part of who you are, which is a really bad situation to be in, because not only do you have to cope with your own incompetence at being with women, you have to fight your own ego that wants the status quo, that wants the comfortable assurance of that what you're likely to do today is what you did yesterday and got you through the day without getting eaten by a bear.

Make no mistake, this is a very difficult thing to change: even somebody like Mike Cernovich confesses he has times when he still thinks he's a no-hoper kid from a poor home, and that's after pretty heavy exposure to some of the most potent psychological programming tools mankind has to offer, not excepting drugs.

While their environment remains the same, while their friends remain the same, nothing will change in their lives. We are the sum total of the 5 people we hang out with most.

"Advanced" is a demonstration of the principle that 10,000 hours of doing something is meaningless unless you are actively considering, actively improving what you do during those hours. Someone who does 1,000 approaches and still can't get laid is, simply put, lying about his number or is using the same bad strategy again and again, either out of cluelessness or because unconsciously he doesn't want to be in that terrifying situation of having your gear off, naked, unprotected and utterly vulnerable to a woman laughing at you having a small dick.

Don't think he's unaware of his deficiencies, either: the guy outright chooses to talk fast in order to appear intelligent, as he says. Despite that self-awareness, that sense of how he appears to others, does he look like someone who has actively adjusted his approach at women, tried different styles of clothing, tried a different haircut, tried recording his own voice to hear how it sounds to women?

Very doubtful: doing that sort of shit would make him look weird or strange to the guys he hangs out with, because none of them are changing their styles either. Odds are on that bar his clothes, he hasn't changed one thing about himself since he left high school. Also see: what I just said about the ego not wanting change.

As Last Psychiatrist tells us: the common factor in all your failed relationships is you.

I don't know if the rest of the documentary went to look at their families, but I would guess one of two scenarios: a single mother household, or a household where it might as well have been. These guys are conformists. And conforming is the great female virtue, because women shame one another to get what they want: girls bully by words, boys by fists.

These guys have been well-behaved their entire lives, whether because they were conditioned that good boys don't tell Ma to go fuck herself, or because they were conditioned that if they got good grades and saved themselves to fuck college life rather than women, the rest of it would sort itself out. Rebellion, pushing, growth: these were all seen as "jock" activities, which their fathers did nothing real to combat or clarify. Quite the contrary, their fathers either didn't understand them and suspected they were gay, or essentially ignored them because said father hated his own Dad (Baby Boomer generation, remember) and therefore the connection through which masculinity is passed down was broken.

I really like your point Paracelsus. Especially about Mike Cernovich, this is what I was trying to get at in regards to inner game. Bringing up a success like Mike is a perfect example of what I was getting at. Anyone who's read the danger and play site knows pre-election he was focused primarily on mindset and lifestyle change. I'm convinced that the tone in a lot of the reading I see in manosphere in articles is so blunt and too the point because the ones who have escaped the feminine conditioning know how hard that first shake needs to be if you are ever going to wake up. The thing is many won't get that chance. I think for any change to be lasting and worthwhile constant reflection is necessary. Reducing life to fucking, dark triad traits and bespoke suits can do a disservice to someone looking to not only get better with women but wondering how the fuck society and their own home lives got so fucked. Root causes need to be addressed with compassion but tough love.

The most important thing I ever learned was the importance of inner game. Not to be mistaken with abundance or not giving a fuck. When I was starting to finally put together theory with real world application, I came across this guy on youtube named Corey Wayne. I was skeptical because he was a dating coach, and had a little bit of you-go-girl-ism when he gave advice to women. However he had a 14 minute video on inner game directed in response to a male viewer that made a lot of things make sense to me. He stressed how many of your own battles with women are just reflection of your own internal conflict acting itself out externally and that to reach the calm that comes with true self knowledge you have to tie up loose ends in your story and in your knowledge of relationships. I'm grateful everyday for that knowledge.

Post: #11

I skipped around & watched about a minute of the video. These guys are losers. They practically label themselves outright as losers, and congregate with other losers similar to themselves.

The internet can be a fantastic resource for anyone looking to improve himself. Or you can use it to reinforce and solidify your loserdom.

It used to be that losers were more or less loners. Today you have online loser "support groups," like the one mentioned in the video.

The very idea of a "support group" is feminine as hell. Forums like RVF aren't "support groups." If you come in whining some loser nonsense, other guys will (correctly) destroy you.

Post: #12

(12-03-2016 02:00 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Those young men's authority figures are his own enemy. And its hard for someone to come to that conclusion inside the bubble. The best move any of them can make, is to accept that fact, and without giving thought to retribution against those enemies, pretend they never existed, pretend their prior selves never existed, and that this year's birthday is your first; then sell everything you own, quit, move as far away from where you are now as you are able, find new qualified mentors and father-figures, and work like a dog rebuilding yourself.

They need to start over, as you say. That means ditching this negatively reinforcing 'support group' immediately. But do they actually want to get somewhere else? Being a loser is their identity at this point, so how open could they truly be to discarding it?

The fact that they're so analytical about their situation says to me that they enjoy thinking about it. And by not improving, they're pre-rejecting any rejections. These are ways of gaining the illusion of control, saving the ego. They're trying to find peace with their situation. It's the equivalent of the fat acceptance movement.

Or there might be a sexual / cuckold / fetish element to this for some of these guys. They get off on being rejected.

Post: #13

I think I remember watching this and if I remember right one of the incels' mom says at one point: "you've had a beautiful life"

They really don't get it.

Post: #14

I think some of you guys are missing the point here.
Full disclosure, I have not watched the video.
I am just going by what has been posted here.

Some of you think that these guys can drop the life they only know, and start on a better path.
But the thing is, the way they think is: "If I lose this, what else do I have?"

In a way, they're right.
Feminism and their ilk have ruined a lot of male outlets that would at least give these men a reason to go on.
The majority of them will never come across the manosphere and their lessons.
So if they abandon the only life they have, they don't see what else they can replace it with.

They think they cannot change their genetics of being a loser.
All they have is the crumbs of what they call their lives.
If you take that away, they figure you might as well kill them.

Like some of you have said already, they need that hard dose of reality to come face to face with them.
That wake up slap will never come for most.
The only thing we can do is spread our message further.
And find a way to get society to recognize that low testosterone is a real, legitimate problem for most males. Otherwise, you're just asking these hard cases to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

Post: #15

(12-03-2016 06:27 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  I think I remember watching this and if I remember right one of the incels' mom says at one point: "you've had a beautiful life"

They really don't get it.

You see exactly what I'm trying to get at.

(12-03-2016 09:47 PM)Sancho Wrote:  I think some of you guys are missing the point here.
Full disclosure, I have not watched the video.
I am just going by what has been posted here.

Some of you think that these guys can drop the life they only know, and start on a better path.
But the thing is, the way they think is: "If I lose this, what else do I have?"

In a way, they're right.
Feminism and their ilk have ruined a lot of male outlets that would at least give these men a reason to go on.
The majority of them will never come across the manosphere and their lessons.
So if they abandon the only life they have, they don't see what else they can replace it with.

They think they cannot change their genetics of being a loser.
All they have is the crumbs of what they call their lives.
If you take that away, they figure you might as well kill them.

Like some of you have said already, they need that hard dose of reality to come face to face with them.
That wake up slap will never come for most.

The only thing we can do is spread our message further.
And find a way to get society to recognize that low testosterone is a real, legitimate problem for most males. Otherwise, you're just asking these hard cases to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

Amazing reply Sancho. This is more of what I was hoping for. Discussing the factors that come and push a young dude down this path. It's easy to yell out platitudes about fucking hoes and benching til' your pecs pop but thats an exaggerated theoretical approach. Human beings are too complex just for linear instruction and too thoughtful to only be guided by spirituality and fantasy. Hence what I said about tough love but compassion. Aka son you fucked up and here's why. Many people in their adolescence are a few instances a way from becoming one of these guys in the modern era. If you haven't watched or don't care to watch 30 minutes of this, just watch the two time slots I marked in my first post.

In the fragility and shit that is the lives of these guys if your introspective enough you see a path or hear an element of your own story that had it gone another way, that could be you. Or some variation of that. If you're familiar with Chris from the good looking loser site you know he was built, had an allowance from his dad until his mid-late 20's and lived in So Cal yet used to spend his Saturday nights at home wondering is there more to his life. He had elements of these guys in his psyche. That's what I was hoping to create a discussion about. Mindset, inner game and probability in steering the course of one mans life.

Post: #16

(12-03-2016 09:47 PM)Sancho Wrote:  Some of you think that these guys can drop the life they only know, and start on a better path.
But the thing is, the way they think is: "If I lose this, what else do I have?"

I think it's worse. The way they think is: "If I lose this, who else am I?"

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #17

(12-03-2016 10:01 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(12-03-2016 09:47 PM)Sancho Wrote:  Some of you think that these guys can drop the life they only know, and start on a better path.
But the thing is, the way they think is: "If I lose this, what else do I have?"

I think it's worse. The way they think is: "If I lose this, who else am I?"

Thats a powerful and important question to ask yourself. But if you've lived a life with risk being taught to you as a negative, masculinity dirty, and being subservient the path to happiness, then your misery will always feel like home.

Post: #18

There's only one way to drag these guys into the sun in my experience. You tell them that you used to be just like them (we all did at some point) and that the misery will only grow and compound until you start eating protein and lifting weights every other day.

For sad guys like this, sex is every bit within their reach as the moon.

You don't get to the moon by obsessing over the moon. You get to the moon by learning about rockets and building them.

Clumsy metaphors aside, you have to snap these guys out of their moon-trance and give them a rocket building kit. You get them lifting and everything follows from there.

Post: #19

I have a lot to say on these.
Why?
Because if it wasn't for one event, I would've been one of these boys mentioned here.
Don't know if I should just rant it out or wait for the right questions...

So if any of you want clarification on why something these type of people think/do, let me know.
I can probably explain the reasoning to you.

One thing I want to mention about this lifestyle.
Another thing to think about...
Not only do they not want to lose the only life they've known, they also know that the other side is even worse.
They see it that while their lifestyle isn't good, they think they're morally better because they suffer more and do less wrong.

Think of it these way.
Imagine telling a skinny guy he should hit the gym.
Besides saying that they don't want to turn into a freak, what is their first excuse?
"I don't wanna turn into one of those gym-rats who go to the gym everyday, lift more pounds than they have brain cells,
eats like a pig all the time, etc."

Even though there is lunk heads that make gym goers look bad, being strong is a good thing.
The world would be a better place if everyone was strong and aesthetic instead of weak and fat.
But he sees it in the perspective that with the good muscles, come the bad habits.

Post: #20

^Okay, while true, guys like us have to be the guiding light to guys like that. Ask them if Arnold Swarzenegger is a bad guy. Ask them if John Cena is a bad guy. Or the Rock.

A lot of these guys are spending their entire lives hiding from the schoolyard bully and the preppy bitches, as if their entire existence was one endless grade school recess break. That said, you can invest a lot in a kid only for it to go down the shitter in the end. I've been there. When I began my transformation I acted as a guiding light to several other guys, and there was a third I really wanted to get on board but it was just too much for him. He was diabetic and as far as he was concerned that meant he was cursed to live as a beta fag for the rest of his life (not his words, obviously).

Sad, but you place your bets and you roll the dice.

I think the best foot you can put forward is to tell guys like that that being an alpha gives you the opportunity to change the world for the better in a way that hiding from the world never will. You can be a great boyfriend, fiancée, husband, father. You can be the guy your family looks up to. You can stand up for the little guy. All of those are opportunities to make the world a better place, and all you have to do is dedicate one measly year to diet and exercise.

There is no moral superiority in being small, weak, and powerless to alter the world around you when a little hard work and discipline can make you strong, confident and capable of doing good in the world.

Or the simplest way of putting it is "I used to be just like you...". Then smile and walk away. There is really no greater seed to plant in their mind than that.

Post: #21

These guys seem to me very like the Japanese herbivores, not sure though if they could be described as same.

Post: #22

My takeway - how would these guys' lives be different if they had no access to the internet?

Post: #23

(12-04-2016 12:24 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  There's only one way to drag these guys into the sun in my experience. You tell them that you used to be just like them (we all did at some point) and that the misery will only grow and compound until you start eating protein and lifting weights every other day.

For sad guys like this, sex is every bit within their reach as the moon.

You don't get to the moon by obsessing over the moon. You get to the moon by learning about rockets and building them.

Clumsy metaphors aside, you have to snap these guys out of their moon-trance and give them a rocket building kit. You get them lifting and everything follows from there.

Ditto. You can't build a house on a shaky foundation. Physical and mental strength, which are both developed through a lifting/diet regime, are the foundations of a healthy male character.

And after a couple of months of lifting, don't forget to sign those guys up for a salsa class.

eatthishomie Wrote:I think I remember watching this and if I remember right one of the incels' mom says at one point: "you've had a beautiful life"

They really don't get it.

A woman can't raise a boy to become a man. Nor can a woman understand life from a male perspective.

Mayweather Wrote:This is more the discussion I was looking to have. Great point Khan. I was hoping to get more personal reflection like this from experienced members. It made me think how lucky I am to have had certain things happen to me as far as personal development. So much of life is really just chance. Pure probability. Some of the most insignificant things like playing basketball, having a girlfriend early, and having a sense of humour saved my ass from becoming something resembling this. However at the time those things were happening I wasn't thinking about how to not become an incel. I was seeking out fun and unknowingly ways to further myself in my environment. Booty tag and red rover on the playground can save a young guys life. Literally. Look at how Michael talks at the end about wanting to not exist. I've definitely met a few guys who had lost hope and completely turned inward on themselves, particularly a close friend of mine who ended up losing his virginity to an escort at 22. I remember him bragging about taking a girl out for a walk at 18, but the way he was talking on the phone, it sounded like he just had a threesome. I reflected back and saw some of these guys in him

Yep, life is inherently unfair. Everyone of us plays with cards we've been dealt with at birth. I've learned that a healthy outlook on life is not to
cry and bitch like a girl, nor is it to rationalize your failures away by mentally masturbating about how homeless or disabled have it much worse than you. A healthy outlook on life is to ditch your ego, stoically accept things you can't change, and get your ass to work in order to improve things you can change.

Post: #24

Losers who aren't willing to help themselves and not willing to risk it all for a better future aren't worth any attentiveness. Even on the dark corners of the Internet people people know exercise and being confident will help you be successful.

These twats that you describe OP KNOWINGLY allow themselves to be sucked into reddit and internet while wasting their life away. They'll brag about being incels to a degree and deride normies. That's a part of Internet culture and the part that's parodied the most for kicks. They made that conscious decision even though they knew getting out and living life like all these other successful people would net them a brighter future.

No sympathy. They aren't sick due to their lack of socialization. They're the plague that's making society sick. Nothing destroys civilization like men failing to make the best of their potential.

Post: #25

People with low SMV will always be able to get laid with people with a lower SMV.

He wasn't the lowest SMV on the planet.

Getting depressed and necking yourself because your SMV doesn't let you get hot chicks you want isn't a valid reason for depression and suicide.