Post: #1

Match.com Data Sheet, For Men 40+

I'm currently closing on my 45th date from Match.com. This is over a period of about a year and a half of on again, off again use. What I'd like to do here is offer a guide for guys my age or a little older on how to be successful on Match. Let's be clear, these are NOT 45 Bangs. Some were, others were not. I ain't no baller. But have been pretty successful in contacting, obtaining responses, and meeting reasonably good quality women.

Some guys my age may feel very much left behind by Tinder and other such apps that just don't work as well for more mature men. I'm not writing this for the guys who are regularly pulling girls. (Respect) This guide is about getting those left cold by the swipe, back into the game. My job here is to try to help you rise above the guy horde on Match, and get noticed.


THE BEGINNING.

Start by understanding that Match is an absolute sausage party bonanza. Guys out number women in numbers of around 4 or 5 to one. Because of this, women have to do absolutely nothing other than post a couple of the 10,000 crappy selfies they already have, and type a "profile" like - "Just looking to see whats out there." With that meager offering, their inboxes will be FLOODED with reality defying, attention-whore heroin. Every. Single. Day.

There is some good news in that. Most of the email contacts they get are of extremely poor quality. They all look exactly the same, and do not stand out in any way. Getting noticed is the single key to getting face to face time.

In order for anyone to actually get actionable messages on Match.com, they have to PAY for at least a month of service. Women who are paying gives some reasonable assurance that they are there to meet someone.

And here's a tip - DO NOT PAY FOR SERVICE RIGHT AWAY. Create an account. Leave off your photos and include only minimal information in the sign-up quiz. Use that account to browse the offerings. After about a month, you will be able to upgrade that account to a full service account for about 10% less than if you immediately buy a subscription.




LET'S TALK ABOUT YOU

If you look like Homer Simpson, (Dad Bod) you are going to have a harder time. Recall for a moment that just about every personal improvement advice thread on this forum contains the ever-present "Hit the gym." Brothers, this is advice that you should heed and make it a non-negotiable part of your daily life. Dump processed carbohydrates and sugar and start working to reclaim some of your lost vitality. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE "JACKED." Leave that to the 20 somethings. But you need to be fit and confident.

On even a modest workout plan (even just using body weight exercises) 30-60 days will give you plainly noticeable improvements to your body, and subsequently, to your attitude, and your confidence. 30 minutes a day in the gym literally completely turbo-charged my dating life. It will do the same for yours.


YOUR PHOTOS - THE FIRST IMPRESSION

You need to be well groomed and well dressed. Go look at most of the guys on Match. What you'll see is a depressing collection of tee-shirts, baseball caps, sunglasses, and worst of all, shirtless bathroom photos. Unless you look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club - women do not want to see you in your bathroom mirror.

Your photos should be of you in button down shirts, or quality pullovers - WITH NO PRINTING. No GODDAMN AFFLICTION SHIRTS. You may include a suit photo, but leave off the tie. Unless the photo is of you at an athletic even, NO sports jerseys.

Your photos should also NOT be selfies. There are budding "photographers" everywhere and most will work for next to nothing. Make sure they are at least 3/4 length. You'll notice that many, many women take selfies at odd downward angles to hide the fact that they are Secret Internet Fatties. At some point during your interaction you'll be requesting photos like yours of your "match." This request will auto purge the fatties.

There is no reason to have more than 3 photos unless there is something special that you want to convey. Studies that I've read indicate that men's photos rate higher with women when the are NOT smiling. But not THAT much. So two photos of you with a calm, confident, pleasant look. (No brow furrowing, or frowning, and no trying to shitlord with your eyes.) One photo with a smile. Be sure the smile is not fake.



YOUR PROFILE

A good profile reveals details about you, while at the same time remaining vague. It is NOT the place to write the epistle of your life's history, or try to shame women into writing you back. Your profile should read more like a movie preview than a screed of self-analysis. In Bull Durham, "Crash" gives his "I believe" speech. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBfdl6hNZ9k ) (Sarandon warning!) I believe that this could be adapted in to a good profile.

Always keep it positive, and upbeat. Establish agreement by asking a question that pretty much everyone will agree with.

Example: "I'm not sure that there is a better feeling than a good belly laugh that makes tears flow. Don't you agree? I live for those moments in life."

Keep it light, funny if possible, and always keep it brief. A profile is an introduction, not a microscopic analysis.


IGNORE THE "D" GIRLS

Your first couple of times on Match once your full profile is up, and you've paid the fee, you're going to get a lot of "Winks" or "Likes" from "girls" from states far away from you. Their profile pictures are usually strong 8's or better. These are known as "sweeteners". They are there to give the average Herb a dopamine hit. "Oh wow! Look at the hot girl from 500 miles away that can't take her eyes off of me!"

They are designed to make shmucks think they are more popular than they are. You should know that the hot girl is just a freelancer, maybe hired from UpWork to help make your inbox seem like less of a hopeless vacuum. Don't look at their profiles, just delete them.


ABOUT THE OTHER GIRLS

There are a lot of legit girls on Match. Sadly many of them are utterly undateable. I've never seen a more wretched collection of 3s and 4s.

Then there are the number girls. You'll see them with phone numbers or other contact information pasted across their photos or in their usernames Trust me, nothing good will come from contacting them. We don't do P4P around here.


ASSEMBLE YOUR FIRST STRIKE LIST

Go to the search and filter it by the qualities you're interested in. Ignoring all girls who have not been on in WEEKS, select your top 10 choices. Women with longer profiles are more likely to be paid members. That said, there is no real way to determine which girls have paid. Since girls who have not paid, cannot read messages, you want to minimize wasting messages on them. Girls with only one photo are also likely not paid members (yet).

Unless you want to go on dates with any of the horrific multitudes of 5s, 4s, or worse, skip them and only select boner test certified women. Copy their profile to a text file because you are going to need it in the next step.


CONTACT

These are the rules for your first contact EMAIL, do not violate them:

1. NEVER mention their looks. Ever. Every guy tells them how "awesome" they look or how beautiful their eyes are. You don't want to be lumped in with "every other guy".
2. Focus on content of their profiles and photos. This can be a challenge since so many women's profiles sound exactly alike.
3. Create at least one point in common, two or more would be better. (Places you've traveled, foods, music.)
4. End with a question - focused on their profile to intrigue a response.
5. Keep it brief.


SAMPLE FIRST CONTACT EMAIL

Hi RandomGirl123,

So you've already earned big points in your favor for loving 80's Hair Bands. I amazed how many of those guys are still putting on killer shows and you've got to love the bands that love their fans. (Drawn from profile, point in common, elicit agreement.)

Nice to meet you by the way. Is that Vail or Boulder in that ski picture? It looks like that was a really nice trip. (empathic statement about a photo). I've been to Boulder a few times, but, by the way you're standing, you look like you spend time on the expert level slopes. (Make people feel good about themselves, especially their abilities and they will like you. Doesn't matter if it's true or not.)

If you'll help me ski better, I'll teach you some guitar. Maybe even some Hair Metal! What would be the first song you'd want to play? (Offer of fun, and elicit a response.)

-------------------------

Note that we compliment a taste or perceived ability. This is more valuable to women because they are flooded with comments about their looks, their eyes, hair, whatever. Compliments about more ethereal things are more rare and consequently stand out.

Also note that I shared only a small bit of information about me, and kept the focus on her. Everyone is their own favorite subject.

Once you send the email, you will likely be in for a wait. I once created a female account to gather intel on how things look from the other side. Using a very plain Jane photo and a bland profile I got 30+ emails a day from everywhere. It will take time for anyone to slog through that crap to get to your gold. If you do not hear back either she's not interested - NEXT - or she's not a paying member (yet) - NEXT -

Once you sent your first 10 select your next 10 and soldier on. It's a bit of a numbers game but if you STAND OUT, you should start seeing some return emails.



I hope this helps someone. I would also encourage guys to post draft contact letters and I would DOUBLY encourage any more experienced guys to add to or CORRECT any of my guidance here.

Post: #2

I'm barely 30 and have never messed with girls older than like 35 so I'm curious if typical game that works on millenials works on these older broads. Such as, being real sarcastic or aloof, playful, clown type shit. Gentle negging etc.

Great sheet! Do you have any kind of stats about conversion rates? How many of these women you've gotten out have turned into bangs and subsequent regular bangs?

Post: #3

I'm 41 and started using Match for the first time a couple months ago. I've had several dates, a few makeouts, but only 1 bang though I didn't put much effort into it. The girls there seem more relationship minded than Tinder. I'm a single dad so that weeds out some girls.

I think your recommendations are spot on, especially on the difference being fit makes and on your messaging style. It was pretty clear to me that these girls are getting a lot of crap thrown their way so if you look decent and write reasonably well it's not hard getting responses. I was able to find a 7-days free trial code by doing a web search, and then a discount code when it was time to renew, I think it was around $80 for 6 months. I've canceled my account (not doing anything online at the moment) so it doesn't renew when it's up and don't think I'll give them more money. It felt like more work than Tinder or Bumble and I got more lays from them. Certainly another tool to use, thanks for sharing your experience.

Edit in response to some of General Stalin's questions: I lied about my age and said I was 37, so I actually got some replies from 21-26 year olds though those never went anywhere. I did go on a couple "dates" with a 28 year old, she called me out on my age but I played it off and she didn't seem to mind, unfortunately her situation was fucked so I quit contacting her. The one bang I got so far was a bit loopy so I broke it off with her after a couple bangs. I've met up twice now with a 33 year old with a hot body and an ok face, the other night she was grinding on me while we were making out but said she had to go, I bet next time I'll get the bang with her. I've not met up with more than a few girls significantly younger than me so don't feel like I can comment with authority on differences in ways to deal with older women.

Post: #4

With online dating, women who pay for Match subscriptions are the most serious about meeting guys. That's no guarantee that they're quality, but you'll waste the least amount of time there. The free sites are more for window-shoppers and attention-whores.

At any given time there is a limited pool of suitable singles in your area. Obviously that pool of people circulates over time. When I really mine through the profiles I feel as though I've reached the point of diminishing returns after 90 days. If I can't find a steady girlfriend in three months then I need to pull back for at least six months and let time renew the pool of singles. It's morbid to think about it, but what you're waiting for are relationships to end, creating a new batch of ex-baggage stories when you meet these people, but that's how it is. It's like a constant game of musical chairs against a limited total demographic pool (if you factor in both single and in-a-relationship).

The other thing is there is a lot of overlap between the various services. On the free sites you'll see the most overlap. A profile shows up on POF, OK Cupid, and Bumble. You'll see less overlap between free and paid. Once someone pays for a service they are more interested in spending their time there than slumming it on the free sites.

This is also how I get a feel for the total number of singles in an area. I wouldn't say I have a true photographic memory but it's like a game of concentration. You start to remember faces that keep appearing over and over again. This is in the greater Boston area, not South Dakota, so there are plenty of people here. But as you winnow the search down, the total number of datable singles online (which is probably a pretty significant percentage of datable singles overall) is probably small enough to fit into a high school auditorium. Kind of depressing.

As for what older women are looking for, red-pill knowledge about dwindling romantic market value is the unshakable (and unspeakable) truth. No matter how self-actualized the woman is, she's going to have to wrestle with this dilemma. This causes them to make poorer and poorer relationship choices, which in turn reads like a red-flag for men. So get ready to hear about guys they were dating who couldn't get it up, guys they kept around because they felt sorry for them. Really the underlying factor is they'd take anyone with a pulse just to avoid being alone and the fear of not being able to find someone again. There ARE elite older single women who are looking to complete the power-couple. These seem like a good catch on the surface since they have better self-esteem but I went to an icebreaker with one and she ran me through the gauntlet like it was a job interview. Too cold and calculating.

It's hard to find a women over 40 who will just date you without the cloud of existential panic hovering over her head about turning into a lonely empty-nest spinster.

Post: #5

(01-13-2017 05:43 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Great sheet! Do you have any kind of stats about conversion rates? How many of these women you've gotten out have turned into bangs and subsequent regular bangs?

I do not have stats on conversions in the broader Match world. However, I'm at about 30%. Of those 2 are regulars. Both are "professional" major workaholic types who don't seem interested in relationships. But they do love a very hard fucking now and then.

Just a side note, I would say that my results are probably not typical. I often target the women who have a status of "Currently Separated" and there seemed to be a slew of them in my area recently. Girls often say that to get over one cock, hop on another. I tailor my messages to hint at that. I'd guess that about 5 over the last year or so took the bait. That upped my % significantly.

Post: #6

Fantastic sheet! Thanks for sharing.

Post: #7

I've used Match for 8 years or so, since I was 16 and the returns have worked less and less in my favor as time has gone by. Now most girls will make you feel like they're doing you a favor when talking/emailing. Bitch, you're in your 30s, wrinkles are starting to show up and make 75K....GTFO.

How many bangs have you gotten? Dates are nice but they're a waste of money and time.

Post: #8

(01-16-2017 10:57 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I've used Match for 8 years or so, since I was 16 and the returns have worked less and less in my favor as time has gone by. Now most girls will make you feel like they're doing you a favor when talking/emailing. Bitch, you're in your 30s, wrinkles are starting to show up and make 75K....GTFO.

How many bangs have you gotten? Dates are nice but they're a waste of money and time.

Cattle Rustler,

I agree with you about the women on Match. Many have profoundly overestimated their value and forgotten the adage, "Men age like wine, women age like milk."

Still, my purpose here was to attempt to help guys past the Tinder / Bumble age, who might be stagnating a bit, to get back in the game. It's rare that a 40+ guy can go to clubs with the 20-30 crowd and not look very out of place.

I'm pretty new here, but I've read your posts and the posts of other players here. I get the feeling that there are a lot of other users here in my age range that just don't think they have the options that many of you guys do.

And you are certainly correct that dating is expensive. I'd hazard a guess that many guys in the 40+ range actually have the money to afford this avenue of action. (Not that others do not as well.)

Post: #9

Quote:Start by understanding that Match is an absolute sausage party bonanza. Guys out number women in numbers of around 4 or 5 to one.

True for most sites, I would imagine.

Also, Match spends a ton of money on software to try to align interests of men to women. Unfortunately even the best analytic software can't do much if the data input is flawed. By definition, EVERYONE, especially the women, lies their ass off on their dating profile. So though you may set filters for general things, making it too specific not only will limit your results too much, it may not even give you a handful of profiles you're actually interested in reviewing.

BTW, when it comes to lies, if you are not quite six feet tall but close enough (perhaps no shorter than 5'9"), go ahead and put 6' in your height box anyway. Chances are the woman is 5'4-5'7ish and shorter than you, so she's never going to notice you are not actually 6' tall, even in person. You will eliminate a big filter this way and get more results.

Obviously this won't work for shorter guys, and for those in the range, don't bother going past the magic 6' number as this is all you need to bypass the hamster.

Post: #10

Good write up. I have had luck with Match in the past (before Tinder/OKC) but I haven't used it recently. I'm doing ok with Tinder/OKC at the moment, however I can see the appeal to something like Match where the girls are more interested since they are actually paying. I would assume the guy/girl ratio isn't as large (but still way out of balance) since guys are probably a bit more hesitant to pay as well.

Post: #11

I had recently started a fake girl profile on OKC to get a real taste of what it's like on the other side, and even while expecting what would come about, I simply couldn't believe it. I guffawed out loud. Everything I've been reading here is so fucking true. The forum is the one source for self-improvement, and to learn how things really work.

Post: #12

(05-10-2017 09:46 AM)Mess O. Wrote:  I had recently started a fake girl profile on OKC to get a real taste of what it's like on the other side, and even while expecting what would come about, I simply couldn't believe it. I guffawed out loud. Everything I've been reading here is so fucking true. The forum is the one source for self-improvement, and to learn how things really work.

Mess O., can you expand on how was it? And your thoughts?

Post: #13

@Baphomet.

How many hours have you spent to get these bangs? I mean, crafting messages and your profile and pictures, looking up profiles, reading messages, replying, thinking what to reply, going on dates, etc.

Also, how many of these girls were girls up to 25 years old?

Post: #14

Thanks for the input. I've been seriously considering using a paid site because of the pure amount of phuckery I'm seeing/getting from the free sites. Bishes just wanna waste your time for free attention and entertainment. I just deleted Tinder, Bumble, Coffee Meets Bagel and Hinge. I'm tired of the bullshit small-talk that leads Nowhere 90% of the time. Almost wish I could write code to auto-respond to these lame bishes like the TinderBots, lol.

Post: #15

(05-10-2017 01:12 PM)ksbms Wrote:  @Baphomet.

How many hours have you spent to get these bangs? I mean, crafting messages and your profile and pictures, looking up profiles, reading messages, replying, thinking what to reply, going on dates, etc.

Also, how many of these girls were girls up to 25 years old?

I can not give you anything exact, though I must admit, that would have been very helpful for me to have tracked that to give the best information possible.

Profile and pictures did not take long. I have a friend who is a photography nut, and I wrote a couple of profile pieces in about an hour or so. Total time maybe two hours.

I also keep a set of skeleton letters that I can basically enter a few sentences unique to each potential girl's profile, and that saves quite a bit of time. I could reasonably send out 5 emails in 30-45 minutes. Most of that time is because I am a very poor typist - hunt and peck.

Most of the time is spent browsing profiles and trying to weed out unsuitable candidates. I figure maybe 90 minutes a week on that.

The girls I target are not in the 25 year old age range.

Post: #16

A serious pay for membership dating site is a gold way of meeting quality women in the 40+ market.

RSVP.com.au is great in Australia.

Post: #17

@ ksbms - Absolutely, but I outta start up the post on, say, the OKC thread, as here it would be drifting off topic . . .

Post: #18

What does OKC have to do with Match?

Post: #19

(05-10-2017 04:53 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  A serious pay for membership dating site is a gold way of meeting quality women in the 40+ market.

RSVP.com.au is great in Australia.

How good is the response rate here? Any good cougar talent?

Do you think this is a good way for Cattle Rustler to get an Australian Green Card? Asking for a friend....

Post: #20

My apologies for wandering outta my neighborhood, 'Rustler. I was starting to mess with Match today, but of course, I was rolling the OKC shit too, and got caught up with posting about it here.

Post: #21

(05-10-2017 08:10 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  How good is the response rate here? Any good cougar talent?

Do you think this is a good way for Cattle Rustler to get an Australian Green Card? Asking for a friend....

Absolutely mate. Like shooting fish in a barrel. If you really want your Oz Green card and can put up with a selfish wrinkling skinned burnt out old Aussie Cougar, then sign up and go for it. They would be lining up for a prime bit of Texas beef

Post: #22

So far . . .

Around 600 sent messages on my Match.com, maybe 2-4 returns per 50 daily sent messages. My messages are much briefer than Baphomet recommends, but I'll have to try his method. 15 phone numbers, and 3 dates. I cancelled one that was supposed to go down yesterday, and have another slated for tomorrow. Also, I'm 36, so I may have to start a separate thread for these stats n' stories, unless the OP wouldn't mind including an age range a few years younger than the intended.

Post: #23

(01-13-2017 05:43 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm barely 30 and have never messed with girls older than like 35 so I'm curious if typical game that works on millenials works on these older broads. Such as, being real sarcastic or aloof, playful, clown type shit. Gentle negging etc.

Great sheet! Do you have any kind of stats about conversion rates? How many of these women you've gotten out have turned into bangs and subsequent regular bangs?

Gentle negging still works. The bratty kid sister thing can work. A lot has to do with being consistent - if your profile says playful asshole, then you're being consistent by being that way in person.

One girl on Bumble, we were chatting. She has kids, I have kids, our schedules aren't aligning. I say that's OK, I get it, dating with kids is hard, she's glad I "get it" (side note: I'm taking this to mean she's looking for casual). Then about a week later she's like "when are you going to ask me out".

I don't respond for a solid 24 hrs - I almost unmatched her because I was in a mood that day, but didn't. Finally get back and say "I thought we agreed after this weekend because then our custody schedules will align". She responded really well to it, and we're back on track. She gave me her number shortly after that, I honestly don't want numbers anymore unless I think she's worth the effort to put in my contacts. Point is, I froze her out and called her out. So, yeah, I think a lot of it works still. Girls will be girls. Maybe tone down a bit, but honestly if you're dating older chicks as you age, you're dating from the same pool you are today. I really don't think chicks change all that much from when they're teenagers/college students.

Going out with her Sunday afternoon. We'll see.

Post: #24

I've been working match.com for several weeks now, messaged 150+ profiles, several terse/luke warm responses, 1 phone number flake, 0 dates. I'm 36, youthful, handsome, in-shape, no kids, have very good photos, creative/engaging profile write-up, targeting women 23-36. Started with the women who were viewing my profile and sending the more personalized/genuine message style like OP for the first 40 women I contacted, 0 responses. Started searches and switched to my cut-and-paste 3 sentence curious travel question that got me dates with girls when I was on match.com in 2014, and started at least getting some terse/luke warm responses, a couple of warmer responses, but they flaked after I told them we should meet and send me their number.

A few observations:

-the quality on match.com has noticeably declined in the last 3 years. Most of the women in my age group are single/divorced moms with attitudes, and fatties/fuglies. Match.com used to have more quality/young professional women, but even the 20-somethings are closer now to the quality of OKC/POF.
-A lot more p4p bots on match.com, almost worse that Tinder was in my area last winter.
-Approximately 40% of profiles messaged do not view me/read their message. Do I still need a bigger sample size?
-women are way more flakey. As mentioned, I landed dates with women in 2014 with the same opener I'm using now. The girls who have responded are viewing my profile after I ask for the number and still flaking.
-I'm more likely to get a response from women w/out kids like myself than the divorced/single moms.
-the cut-and-paste opener at least gets responses!! Writing more original/engaging messages got me nothing. I guess when you're living in an era where women online don't take things seriously, the less serious messaging style works??

Post: #25

Would you say the conclusion one might draw from the above decline in Match results is that the "swipers" like Tinder/Bumble are gradually destroying traditional paid dating sites?