Post: #1

Just as a disclaimer for admins: If this belongs in the Lifestyle Forum please move it, no malicious intent, I just thought I'd get better advice in the Newbie Forum.

Finding Purpose in Life.

I'm in my mid-thirties so after all the partying and wasting my twenties on social frivolities I'm interested in getting my life together. Being a member of this forum is already benefitting me in the short amount of advice I've been spending time reading. I bought dumbells and started training at home, ran into resistance and posted about it here. I've been questioning and criticising information I've read about over the years when it comes to PU material and started a blog in my spare time which I'm taking my time with to find my own voice.

At this time in my life, I've been reading books and questioning my life in terms of meaning and purpose. For example, I know if I want to get good at the game I must do approaches to improve. If I want to run a business I need to take action. If I want to be healthy I need to invest time in learning and maintaining fitness.

Health, Wealth, Relationships. The thing is I'm going through a phase of really digging deep introspectively in terms of life and meaning and purpose. So what are the keys to finding purpose?

I realise that this is not something you can fix overnight like many aspects of game, fitness and wealth it is not something that you can fix with a 'magic pill' and simply have it figured out and honed very quickly. However, what are some of the things that must happen before one finds purpose?

In my experience, I've built up professional skills in life that require my abilities to maintain and nurture which have become a part of my being. The whole aspect of mastery is a part of that. It seems reasonable to put those actionable skills to use in feeding my purpose. Consecutively I have also many interests and feelings about certain topics and subjects.

I finished reading Quintus Curtius's book about Cicero, 'On Duties' at the end of 2016 and began reading 'The Rational Male' by Rollo Tomassi this year. These books seem like such great quality books and leave a lot of room for improvement as a man and as a person in the professional context of life. I come to the inferences that I should focus more on giving back to the world at some point in my life. The contributions of these authors is a great service to culture and mankind.

I realise at this age in my life that it may not be a great idea to go on a wild bender of doing 30 approaches everyday at the expense of time, and resources. My question then is, how do I find my life purpose?

This is very important at this stage of life as many guys grow to mature to this age will also learn.

I would much prefer for older and more experienced guys who have their life together to give advice on this please. All comments welcome in respect of users though.

Post: #2

My experience is very different (you can read it in my official introduction).

Finding a purpose is extremely personal.

My suggestions:
1. Read more and varied material - Have not read both books you mentioned, but I have read every post of those two. Rollo is not about purpose, but about inter-gender dynamics.
One point of him you should take - you are your point of mental origin.
Read other books on meaning of life. Use your tradition as a good starting point.
2. Take action - talk to "red pill" people. Ask them about their purpose.
I can tell you that I have several. But those are mine (for example one of my purposes are my kids). You will get good ideas.
Also - try to do things and see what you are drawn to. This is usually a good sign.
3. Mentor - try mentoring or finding a protege. While you guide him, you will guide yourself.

It is a journey.

Post: #3

Great question! The only prerequisite to finding your purpose is, IME/IMO, living a bit of life and then asking the question as you're doing. You are totally ready to discover your purpose and it's waiting for you (it's been there all along)!

My comments on how I found my life purpose are in this thread: /thread-59636.html

The workbook I mentioned is a tremendously valuable resource and requires you to write in it. You will find your 'genius' (your unique talent / aptitude) and will also understand how your genius relates to your purpose. Cannot recommend it more highly.

Reference: I'm early 40s, happily self-employed business owner (10 years now), working to keep a healthy mind / healthy body with the help of my brothers. Made a post on how to price your products which was well-received

/thread-60642.html

Post: #4

I'm a younger guy who went through all the bullshit of modern day education. Fucked around in university playing competitive sports and learning pickup, eventually spending 7 years to get a 2 year degree. Worked in my field for 8 months before I dealt drugs for a bit, then fell into poker.

I would look at what do you want, what brings you happiness, and finally what do you not mind doing for the next few years.

For me, I was wandering because financially I didn't know how I would make money, wasn't sure what I was good at, and knew I wanted freedom. I fell into poker because of friends, but in the beginning I didn't love it. I kinda liked it, I didn't hate it, and eventually my passion grew from that.

Why do you wake up in the morning? Do you have goals? For me I get up for the challenge. I've found I am happiest by pursuing my masculine self, and all of the Red Pill stuff pushed me towards that. Sports, lifting weights, meeting and fucking girls, and soon to be fighting. This is what makes me happiest.

I wrote an essay in university arguing the fact that people are happiest when they are striving towards 'flow'. The less 'flow' experiences you have in your life, the less happy you will be. Athletes refer to flow as 'the zone' but it has 8-10 different aspects which make it so.

1. Clarity of goals and immediate feedback

…as seen in many sports or the arts. A tennis player knows exactly what is required in order to win a game. The rules are clear. In every action, success or failure is immediately perceived. Sports and the arts are therefore classic flow-activities.

2. A high level of concentration on a limited field

This allows a person's consciousness to delve deeply into the activity. In contrast, there are often chaotic and contradictory demands in daily life which may cause confusion and dissatisfaction.

3. Balance between skills and challenge

The difficulty of a task has to provide the right degree of challenge to a person’s ability. A too difficult piece of music will leave a musician frustrated and disappointed, a too easy one leads to boredom and routine. So flow occurs in range between ‘too much’ and ‘too little’.

The relationship between requirements and capabilities

4. The feeling of control

Characteristic for flow is the feeling of heightened control over one’s actions. The expression ‘control’ is easily misunderstood. It can put many people off by its association with compulsive domination or nervous attention. Control in flow has none of these qualities. It is a state of security and relaxation with the complete absence of worry: the paradox known in Zen Buddhism as ‘control without controlling’.

5. Effortlessness

Flow involves flexibility and ease; everything works harmoniously and effortlessly. A tennis match or a solo performance on stage may look strenuous from the outside; yet, if in fact the player is in flow, he or she does not experience any particular strain. The activity runs smoothly, guided by an inner logic. All necessary decisions arise spontaneously from the demands of the activity without any deliberate reflection.

6. An altered perception of time

In a deep flow-state, one’s normal perception of time is on hold. Time can either feel condensed - two hours feel like ten minutes, or expanded - seconds feel like minutes. That is why the flow-mode is called ‘timeless’.

7. The melting together of action and consciousness

Complete involvement creates a state in which there is no room for worry, fear, distraction or self-conscious rumination. Performers do not feel separated from their actions; they are one with their performance. This feeling of unity can expand to a person’s surroundings (nature) as well as to a whole group of people working together (team flow).

8. The autotelic quality of flow-experiences: IROI

From Greek autos – self and telos – goal. Not only achieving the goal of an activity is rewarding but the activity in itself is fulfilling. Flow is therefore “Immediate Return on Investment”.

If you aren't having many flow experiences in your life, I would suggest you try and find some. Weights + new hobbies may be able to give you this. What flow essentially boils down to is you enjoy an activity for the sake of it, and it takes all of your being + attention to the task. Once the competition or task is completed, you come out of it as a brand new person with new capabilities, achieving personal growth. This fundamental understanding of stretching your limits gives a deep satisfaction on a personal level, and I would also argue this is what Maslow is referencing when he speaks of self-actualization. The greatest athletes talk about this all the time as well.

https://www.amazon.ca/Flow-Psychology-Ex...0061339202

This is the book. I struggled with purpose my last few years but have grown to love poker, and found that striving for my masculine self and having flow experiences is what makes me happiest. Hope this helps.

Post: #5

Thanks for replies. In all honesty, I was looking for resources such as these. I knew this wasn't an instantaneous fix in writing the OP. The advice presented is relatively kind of what I was expecting from a forum such as this. However, that being said, it is much welcomed. I think as guys get older they start asking questions about things like life purpose, or if they have encountered hardship they also question their life purpose. It's possible I could gain something from these books and figure out some things about my own life purpose as a result. It's also possible that I'd still not gain much. Personal bias aside I've bought the books you guys have mentioned and will be seeking my own answers in the process.

Post: #6

(01-14-2017 04:17 AM)PoetryOfEros Wrote:  Just as a disclaimer for admins: If this belongs in the Lifestyle Forum please move it, no malicious intent, I just thought I'd get better advice in the Newbie Forum.

Finding Purpose in Life.

I'm in my mid-thirties so after all the partying and wasting my twenties on social frivolities I'm interested in getting my life together. Being a member of this forum is already benefitting me in the short amount of advice I've been spending time reading. I bought dumbells and started training at home, ran into resistance and posted about it here. I've been questioning and criticising information I've read about over the years when it comes to PU material and started a blog in my spare time which I'm taking my time with to find my own voice.

At this time in my life, I've been reading books and questioning my life in terms of meaning and purpose. For example, I know if I want to get good at the game I must do approaches to improve. If I want to run a business I need to take action. If I want to be healthy I need to invest time in learning and maintaining fitness.

Health, Wealth, Relationships. The thing is I'm going through a phase of really digging deep introspectively in terms of life and meaning and purpose. So what are the keys to finding purpose?

I realise that this is not something you can fix overnight like many aspects of game, fitness and wealth it is not something that you can fix with a 'magic pill' and simply have it figured out and honed very quickly. However, what are some of the things that must happen before one finds purpose?

In my experience, I've built up professional skills in life that require my abilities to maintain and nurture which have become a part of my being. The whole aspect of mastery is a part of that. It seems reasonable to put those actionable skills to use in feeding my purpose. Consecutively I have also many interests and feelings about certain topics and subjects.

I finished reading Quintus Curtius's book about Cicero, 'On Duties' at the end of 2016 and began reading 'The Rational Male' by Rollo Tomassi this year. These books seem like such great quality books and leave a lot of room for improvement as a man and as a person in the professional context of life. I come to the inferences that I should focus more on giving back to the world at some point in my life. The contributions of these authors is a great service to culture and mankind.

I realise at this age in my life that it may not be a great idea to go on a wild bender of doing 30 approaches everyday at the expense of time, and resources. My question then is, how do I find my life purpose?

This is very important at this stage of life as many guys grow to mature to this age will also learn.

I would much prefer for older and more experienced guys who have their life together to give advice on this please. All comments welcome in respect of users though.

Plato - Complete Works

You'll find in Plato's Works answers to most questions humanity grappled ever since humans begin to walk upright.

Post: #7

+1 to Plato

If you read all of his work you may not figure out what you need, but you will have the framework to solve just about anything.

Post: #8

Here's something I have found:

You need to work hard, especially on something you love. Dedicate 10 hours a day to this. Let's see if you talk about life's purpose after a year.

Life is just like working out. You feel like shit before/while working out but feel really good and satisfied later. You've got to find something you love and pour your sweat,blood and tears in it. The the "reward" you get out of it(after few years) will give you the satisfaction you need in life.

Another idea is to look at it from a "motivation" perspective. You are always happy and satisfied whenever you are motivated...right? So, you can work it out backwards by finding out the reason for the loss of motivation and fix it.

Really great article for second approach: http://startupbros.com/killing-the-7-mot...murderers/

EDIT: I read philosophy almost everyday. Sorry but philosophy doesn't provide the answers you're looking for. Philosophy will help you with your everyday life but not with your life's purpose. Life's pretty simple, man. Work really hard on something you love and reap the rewards.

Post: #9

Quote:You'll find in Plato's Works answers to most questions humanity grappled ever since humans begin to walk upright.

Quote:If you read all of his work you may not figure out what you need, but you will have the framework to solve just about anything.

Seriously just gave me a new hobby

Quote:EDIT: I read philosophy almost everyday. Sorry but philosophy doesn't provide the answers you're looking for. Philosophy will help you with your everyday life but not with your life's purpose. Life's pretty simple, man. Work really hard on something you love and reap the rewards.

Nobody on the thread wrote 'I read philosophy almost everyday.' ?!?

Quote:You need to work hard, especially on something you love. Dedicate 10 hours a day to this. Let's see if you talk about life's purpose after a year.

Life is just like working out. You feel like shit before/while working out but feel really good and satisfied later. You've got to find something you love and pour your sweat,blood and tears in it. The the "reward" you get out of it(after few years) will give you the satisfaction you need in life.

Another idea is to look at it from a "motivation" perspective. You are always happy and satisfied whenever you are motivated...right? So, you can work it out backwards by finding out the reason for the loss of motivation and fix it.

Really great article for second approach: http://startupbros.com/killing-the-7-mot...murderers/

Uh, yeah, thanks for that.

EDIT: Sorry that was a lazy reply. I get your point though, 'Don't confuse the journey for the destination.'

Post: #10

One of humankind's most unfortunate burdens is the gift of self awareness, and the inability to deal with it.

Hence the often asked question of life's meaning, religions, philosophies, drugs and drink, and people just going crazy or checking out.

The cold, bleak harsh reality is that life has no meaning. What a curious concept that things "have to have a meaning"

You can either grasp the nettle and look for things that amuse, excite or entertain you between now and the inevitable end...

or choose a coping mechanism from the list above.

Reading Meaning of life changed my life.

Post: #11

I believe the meaning of life is to give your life a meaning. I'm reminded of a scene from "City Slickers":





That "one thing" is going to be different for everyone. What gives one man a sense of fulfillment might not give another man that same feeling. Essentially, your duty in life is to find the one thing that really speaks to you and do it. Don't feel badly if you can't find that thing, whatever it is, right away. Just keep trying new things until something "clicks." Try to enjoy your life as you would a song, the final note isn't as important as learning to appreciate the journey the melody takes you on along the way.

Post: #12

I think the meaning of life is to give your life a meaning. I'm reminded of a scene from "City Slickers":





That "one thing" is going to be different for everyone. What gives one man a sense of fulfillment may not give another man that same feeling. Essentially, your duty in life is to find the one thing that really speaks to you and do it. Don't feel badly if you can't find that thing, whatever it may be, right away. Keep trying new things until something "clicks."

Learn to enjoy your life as you would a song, which isn't all about the final note or where things ultimately end up, it's about appreciating the journey the melody takes you on along the way.

Post: #13

I'm around the same age as you, and the older I get I find myself asking the same type of questions. I don't have all the answers as to what the big "purpose in life" is. However a lot of little things can really help smooth things over until you find the big purpose. One thing is to always have a goal or a mission. Have something your reaching for... fulfilling goals fulfills the soul. The harder you work towards something the greater sense of accomplishment you feel when you achieve it. Also take care of your health and body, it will improve every aspect of your life. If you are eating shit food and laying on the couch all day watching Desperate House Wives, you're not gonna be happy or fulfilled. When your health and exercise is on point your mental health follows. There is also ways to work on your mental health, I suggest being open minded and looking into them. There is no shame in wanting your mind and body to be the best they can be... you only get one vessel to traverse this thing called life, why would you not want the best functioning vessel you can have.

As far as getting into game... after two years on the road and gaming (also I have been day gaming my whole life, not just for the past two years abroad) I can tell you the girls I had the best connections with were all from day game. If I was only relying on tinder like a lot of guys here do... I would have missed out on SOOO many amazing experiences with amazing women. If you see a girl you like, say something to her. You don't have to go to the mall an spam approach but when you do see a girl that gives you that nervous feeling in your belly when you think about approaching her, approach her. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. An if they aren't interested, so what? There are 7 billion people on the planet, not all of them are going to dig you and thats fine.

Also I will add that even though these last two years of doing what I do has been awesome. I can tell you the things that I got the most satisfaction from were the times I helped other people. Buying some street kids food, or playing basketball with them, buying them toys on Christmas.. these are the things that made me feel the most reward. I do firmly believe helping others is a big purpose in our lives, however in this day and age it's overlooked by most people.

These are my thoughts on the subject at hand....

Also here is a interesting discussion on the topic.

Post: #14

Try to serve in the military for at least an entire year... the military always bring that answer because u learn some life knowledge that u don't learn in anywhere else

Post: #15

Read the book,"A Mans Search For Meaning".

Post: #16

(01-24-2017 04:12 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  I believe the meaning of life is to give your life a meaning. I'm reminded of a scene from "City Slickers":





That "one thing" is going to be different for everyone. What gives one man a sense of fulfillment might not give another man that same feeling. Essentially, your duty in life is to find the one thing that really speaks to you and do it. Don't feel badly if you can't find that thing, whatever it is, right away. Just keep trying new things until something "clicks." Try to enjoy your life as you would a song, the final note isn't as important as learning to appreciate the journey the melody takes you on along the way.

Haha that's funny!! I was actually thinking about how one goes about that. It's such an elusive damned thing to figure out what my purpose is. I'm actually frustrated and baffled by it. I mean, I know what skills I have, I know where my 'sense of mastery' lies yet I still don't know what my purpose is.

I'm assuming that purpose has something in respect to being at service to others in some way. I'm also assuming that nobody will lay out what life purpose is in a simple and easy to understand manner. Nobody is going to BE ABLE to tell someone else what their life purpose is. It get's cryptic, meta and subjective.

For the first 30 years of my life, I would go as far as to say it was all experiential and self-exploratory. For the previous 5 years I have been at service to loved ones in recompense of the expenditure I went to during my first 30 years. I've reached a point where I know I need to add meaning to the whole thing called 'life'.

It seems to me to be counter-productive to come on a forum whereby guys of all walks of life are telling other guys how to get laid, what steps to take and then ask them about life purpose. For the ones who HAVE replied and spent the energy and time to try and help me out, some of them told me what things lead to a better understanding of life purpose or have given me sagely advice that seems cryptic. I think this is something I must discover for myself...

I don't have the time to watch a 14 minute youtube video by Joe Rogan no matter how useful other guys find him. My level of performance is not governed by someone else's advice. I respect the opportunity and good intent you took to share it with me. You listed some doable deeds that increase meaning in life but what if someone doesn't have the means to take the initiative to do those deeds?

If my life depended on it I would find meaning in a split second. I know most of the advice on this thread is benevolent in nature, altruistic and helpful to others. I'm not trying to denigrate that fact.

Is there anything we can all agree on when it comes to life purpose?

Do we all know that there is a process that takes place as a precedent to knowing one's life purpose, and if there is what is it?

I empathise with the guys who are serious about this matter.

At this point I know it's not just going to spring to mind. If I continue to push the matter further then guys are going to jump on the bandwagon of telling me what steps to take, what articles/books/videos to spend time with, I will gain all kinds of surplus advice. But at this point, I've realised this is not a topic that has a light burden such as to give a straight answer. Surely this is enough inspiration to figure out what my life purpose is, right? But will I ever figure it out? Maybe I haven't built up enough experience and knowledge to figure it out. Maybe nobody actually knows their life purpose because they are already living it and don't need to teach anyone.. I'm just thinking too much?

Thanks for all the responses, I must go and meditate on this for the next few weeks.

Post: #17

(01-29-2017 09:08 AM)PoetryOfEros Wrote:  Is there anything we can all agree on when it comes to life purpose?

I've yet to see anybody ask "what's the purpose of life" who had kids. So I guess that would be a hint.

Older guys asking about life's purpose or finding motivation is almost a form of "I don't have kids" signalling.

Post: #18

(01-29-2017 09:26 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 09:08 AM)PoetryOfEros Wrote:  Is there anything we can all agree on when it comes to life purpose?

I've yet to see anybody ask "what's the purpose of life" who had kids. So I guess that would be a hint.

Older guys asking about life's purpose or finding motivation is almost a form of "I don't have kids" signalling.

Phoenix, funny you would say that...I was reading through the thread and thought the same thing. I would have to say that providing an example to my kids is my life's purpose. I also like to set 'missions' for myself. Call it the James Bond philosophy. I know that everything in life will go...including life itself, but at some point my kids will be grown and then the best thing I can do is to lead a life of example. I am about to start my fifth year on the wagon which was one of my missions and I talk to my kids about that a lot as they have alcoholism on both sides of their family. I have a girl (plate) in Mexico that I see a couple times of year and we go to historical or archaeological sites which is something I am interested in. I find a lot of meaning in these times.

I also mentor a couple of other younger people that I have met through common activities. They don't have many good role models, guys that stay active and keep learning throughout life so I enjoy that.

I think someone mentioned Mans Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. I did enjoy that.

I myself have not found much that I enjoyed in Plato but other classics yes, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, and Seneca....have I mentioned Seneca?? Some in Michel de Montaigne.

Overall, I would warn against falling into dogma. Question everything, and if you think you really understand it, still question it. Whether it be red pill thinking, blue pill thinking, the Bible, the dictionary, or anything. Being dogmatic is the surest way to stop growing and to adopt another's belief system (dogma) only to eventually become disillusioned at some point and adopt another set of beliefs is not really developing yourself. Corroborate anything you read with your own life experience and don't take unsolicited advice. Observe the actions of those you admire but do not attribute some type of infallibility to anyone. Most of those who display outward success are the beneficiary of coincidence or randomness (plus the ability to capitalize on their chances).

Understanding randomness is a very powerful tool. Read The Drunkards Walk:
https://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Ra...0307275175

and The Black Swan:
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Improb...081297381X

When you finally understand randomness, and all the biases, like survivor bias, then you can really accept that your only choice is to keep your chin up regardless of what life throws at you and not try to live another's life.

G

Post: #19

Purpose in life is one thing that sounds like bullshit to people who already have it, just like naturals don't understand what average guys bitch about. I used to have purpose in life but then several unpleasant things happened that knocked me off balance. Now I need a purpose bad. I've been living day to day and short sighted like an ant. A solid purpose prevents you from drifting, obsessing with trifling matters, wasting your time etc. It makes your frame stronger too. Masculine Development has a good article on this. However it seems to me the main reason behind me not having a solid purpose is that I'm so fatigued (have written about it elsewhere) that can't imagine anything great. Unfortunately to some extent it goes the other way around as well.