Post: #1

Lets identify some common mannerisms is the female population and see if someone has the answer. I'll go first.

I know I know, they say trying to figure out why a woman does something will drive you crazy.

This has happened to me about 3 times this last month. I'll ask/tell a girl to come do something with me, whether it's just"hanging out", a fun date, dinner or whatever and she will decline but profess that she's still interested.

Example 1. Had a one night stand with a friend of a friend, probably gave her the best fucking of her life. Super friendly after and in texts. The next weekend she practically begs me to come see her and I don't but I'm cordial about it. A few days after; I invite her over and she declines but expresses interest in seeing me again. A week later same deal. Then I talk to our mutual friend and it turns out she said she's not into me at all. Why not just flake normally and not express interest at all?

Example 2. Same deal except no one night stand, just a date. I broke my rule again and went for the second invite after she declined the 1st time but genuinely seemed interested in seeing me. After she declined the 2nd time I left her on seen and didn't reply.

Example 3 is basically the same as example 2 except she hits me up saying she had a great time and we should do something again some time. Same deal declines twice but expresses interest with no follow up.

I don't get it. Do they just want me as an orbiter or backup or something? It's clear to me that they aren't genuine but I just don't know why. I have a pretty dominant straight forward personality so I have a hard time believing they would have the audacity to want me as an orbiter. I also can't really imagine them being scared of a backlash but I guess it's possible although I just never do that. Any help fellas?

Post: #2

With Example 1 you can just ask your mutual friend WHY the ONS lost interest, but my bet is that by not going over there that weekend (when she was begging you) had something to do with it. You have to understand you're not likely going to be treated better than you treat them. It sounds like you're trying to spin a bunch of casual sex plates and women are going to pick up on that and be just as flaky as you are with them. Why ask for more?

Post: #3

I meant to ask why girls act like they want to see you again when they have no intentions of doing so. What is their motivation?

I fucked up with each girl and I know how, you're not too far off with that one but it's not what I meant to ask.

Post: #4

Questor is right, Iv noticed with girls that Iv fucked quickly, they're initially hot and want to see me again soon.

But iv made the mistake of thinking it was plain sailing from then on, putting them on ice a bit while I spin other plates, thinking I can just pick them back up as and when I like.

But most really don't like it, they take it as rejection and because you made them feel bad they go cool on you even if the sex was great.

Once they do this you've lost hand because you only appear needy trying to reel them back in, they know your game now and can play it better than you with more options for sex.

Best to let them ones go rather than try too hard to get it going again.

Sometimes, they will hit you up weeks or months later and then you have another chance to warm them up again on your terms.

I try and be a bit warmer and enthusiastic to them now in the first place, they stay around longer and it avoids the odd dry spell and hassle of starting over from scratch.

The other 2 examples seem like you didn't exactly fuck up but neither did you make a strong enough impression to inspire them to want more of you. You were filed under 'options' lol.

Only you know if you played it too safe and came across as boring, or whether you put your best foot forward.

If it's the latter, don't worry about it, some girls just won't feel your vibe no matter what u do.

Plenty more fish in the sea.

EDIT: to answer your real question then, just because they didn't eventually want to see you again doesn't mean they had no intentions of doing so from the start.

Like I said above, you were kept around with those niceties as an option which ultimately it seems in those two cases, they chose not to persue for whatever reason.

You're frustrated by them not being men of their word and meaning what they say, which is crazy!

Post: #5

I'm less frustrated and am just curious. I know the nature of women; they have their ways of doing things and rarely is it straight forward and I'm alright with that. What I don't like is not understanding their intentions.

You never know someone truely until you know what they want; what drives them. I'm just seeking understanding

Post: #6

Women are attracted to men that they think really really want to fuck them but simoultaneosly know won't really care if they dont

Post: #7

(02-17-2017 07:23 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  I don't get it. Do they just want me as an orbiter or backup or something? It's clear to me that they aren't genuine but I just don't know why. I have a pretty dominant straight forward personality so I have a hard time believing they would have the audacity to want me as an orbiter. I also can't really imagine them being scared of a backlash but I guess it's possible although I just never do that. Any help fellas?

You let yourself become the "social spare tire," so yeah, you've become a backup/orbiter. Stop making yourself so available. If this conversation is happening over text read up on the rules for that - you're coming across as too easy for them, which makes you less attractive. They've got a dog's nose for that shit.

Post: #8

(02-18-2017 08:05 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  You let yourself become the "social spare tire," so yeah, you've become a backup/orbiter. Stop making yourself so available. If this conversation is happening over text read up on the rules for that - you're coming across as too easy for them, which makes you less attractive. They've got a dog's nose for that shit.

Can you point me in the direction of texting rules, specifically referencing the subject at hand.

I see what you mean, I do make myself very available. I guess i'll stop. Tips?

Post: #9

(02-18-2017 05:24 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Women are attracted to men that they think really really want to fuck them but simoultaneosly know won't really care if they dont

This is sage advice.

I had a pole dancing fuck buddy (she probably saw it more as a mini relationship) that I was seeing for a few months. I was highly sexual with her and always gave her a hard fucking.

She ended things because she didn't think we had a "connection". I expressed indifference then went on to ask if she had any single pole dancing friends to solidify that indifference and get her hamster into overdrive. Of course, she made an excuse saying most of them were in relationships.

Just yesterday (a couple of months later after no contact) she texted me saying she wanted closure as she didn't like how things ended and couldn't stop thinking about it. I put it back on her, mentioning that if she thought there was no connection then why am I weighing on her mind. Long story short, she admits that maybe she was overthinking things and now wants to resume seeing me. If I had've gone all beta originally and pleaded my case that there was a "connection", there's no way I'd be in this position of being able to tap that incredibly toned ass again.

So the moral I guess is aloofness/indifference works, but only if you've thoroughly dominated her in the bedroom consistently and over a reasonable amount of time.

Post: #10

(02-18-2017 04:41 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  What I don't like is not understanding their intentions.

Common wisdom is to judge women on their behavior, not their words, but to also know how fickle they are. When I say fickle, I mean their feelings can change at the drop of a hat.

That being said, guys often have an emotional blindspot for how women really feel about them. They can swear up and down that a date went great but the woman had a lackluster time. If you learn to read her body language more, then if they say they want to see you again you'll know it's probably just them trying to avoid conflict so they can ghost you.

Post: #11

(02-17-2017 07:23 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  Example 1. Had a one night stand with a friend of a friend, probably gave her the best fucking of her life. Super friendly after and in texts. The next weekend she practically begs me to come see her and I don't but I'm cordial about it. A few days after; I invite her over and she declines but expresses interest in seeing me again. A week later same deal. Then I talk to our mutual friend and it turns out she said she's not into me at all. Why not just flake normally and not express interest at all?

There's another guy.

Quote:Example 2. Same deal except no one night stand, just a date. I broke my rule again and went for the second invite after she declined the 1st time but genuinely seemed interested in seeing me. After she declined the 2nd time I left her on seen and didn't reply.

There's another guy.

Or maybe she just didn't like you. Why would a girl "genuinely interested" in you turn down a day two?

When a girl turns me down for a day two when the first date was sort of lukewarm (i.e. no sex) I assume she doesn't like me, or else she wouldn't do it. Women aren't always logical, but I think this is a pretty cut-and-dried kind of situation.

So she didn't like you, and there's also another guy.

Quote:Example 3 is basically the same as example 2 except she hits me up saying she had a great time and we should do something again some time. Same deal declines twice but expresses interest with no follow up.

There's another guy.

Quote:I don't get it. Do they just want me as an orbiter or backup or something? It's clear to me that they aren't genuine but I just don't know why. I have a pretty dominant straight forward personality so I have a hard time believing they would have the audacity to want me as an orbiter. I also can't really imagine them being scared of a backlash but I guess it's possible although I just never do that. Any help fellas?

It's pretty straightforward when you assume straightforward assumptions about young women - there's always someone else around in some capacity. There's little point in analyzing to death where or how things went wrong if you feel you ran the best game you could; you'll never know. Not worth thinking about and wastes time you could be using to hit up more women, or work on other things you enjoy or improve yourself.

When I was doing online dating hardcore situations like you mention happened constantly; if I didn't get ghosted or flaked on after a date twice a week it was a slow week. If you're doing things "right" girls flaking out eventually becomes a yawn-inducing non-event.

But hey, at least you got the bang with one, though!

Post: #12

(02-19-2017 12:08 AM)questor70 Wrote:  That being said, guys often have an emotional blindspot for how women really feel about them. They can swear up and down that a date went great but the woman had a lackluster time. If you learn to read her body language more, then if they say they want to see you again you'll know it's probably just them trying to avoid conflict so they can ghost you.

My experience over the past year and a half: I know a date was a "good date" when I fuck her that night, or at least have her top pulled off and my hands down her skirt.

If that doesn't happen then even now, after dozens of dates and no matter how the date went otherwise, I'm pretty much lost as to whether she'll want to go out again, or not, and it's totally anyone's guess. I couldn't possibly handicap it and I don't make any assumptions.

At least with online game I would realistically characterize the overwhelming majority of the dates I've been on, maybe 75%, as "lackluster." At this point if I don't even get any smooching/kino on the first date or she seems generally ambivalent I just delete her number after I leave. Sucks, but I probably haven't lost anything by doing it.

Conversely I've been wildly successful with the couple girls I've managed to pull from night game, their interest level is intrinsically much higher. It's also much more work to pull it off.

Post: #13

Thanks for the write up. I always assume there is someone else with young girls. And of course no matter the circumstances when a girl flakes or declines day 2 I assume they are not interested. I'm with you; I don't take it personally. I do try to figure it out though.

Being overly analytical is bad I agree. Clearly I'm not a game master, so I take every interaction as a lesson. Especially if it doesn't go to my liking. As a man I want to shape the world around me and leverage that masculinity to create interactions that I enjoy. When I fail that objective all I want is the knowledge and ability to complete it next time around.

It's getting to the point where I'm cultivating a real abundance mentality and my frame is just getting better and better. Women don't baffle me as much as they used to say 5 years ago and I actually appreciate their feminine nature even if it's the antithesis of mine.

I'm qualifying myself here to let yall know I get it. There's another dude, plenty of fish in the sea, actions are louder than words, if she's not sucking your dick she probably isn't that interested. Got it fellas; and I appreciate every word of advice.

I didn't give background on the examples because I wasn't really seeking advice on how to make those interactions go better, although again much love for the wisdom dropped here.

Ex1 - I was a little too cocky and aggressive with her. I also showed her weakness a few times by getting upset when she stepped out of line instead of meeting it with an appropriate response. Frame fell apart and she lost interest. Lesson learned: when correcting a woman's behavior never do it out of anger. Most of the time the best thing to do is just withdraw and game other girls. Emotions were my enemy here. What got this girl to fuck me in the first place was my buddy said "he's a nice guy but don't fall in love with him". All I had to do was keep a solid aloof/dominant frame and it would've been smooth sailing. I need to read iceberg slims PIMP again.

Ex 2. I didn't really hold her interest and wasn't able to keep her entertained. I have a lot of life experience and have done my fair share of travelling and job hopping. When I can't make a connection with someone and bring them into my game there is something larger at play. I tried ranting about travel, jobs, common interests, taste, etc. She didn't light up for any of it. So fun/entertainment frame wasn't the right choice. She could've been more into status, potential, romance or something else. This could've been avoided if I simply felt her out, asked her more questions and really got a bead on her before jumping into that mode.

Ex3 This girl was really hard to read from minute one. I know that she definitely got turned off when I didn't open my car door for her. Her body language got worse when I told her we were going dutch on the food. We managed to have some good conversation and had a decent amount in common but after a certain point it felt forced and she was naturally a little awkward (nerdy asian girl from the south who spent half her life in the bay, go figure). I was kind of on some asshole shit and I never spend money on women. Probably could've just been nice and confident with a hair less teasing and she would've been down. Would I do it over? Absolutely, opened the door for her, framed her paying for her own food better, and would have avoided kino till the end of the date.

I'm not stuck on any of it, I'm moving on. I have 3 good prospects this next week 2 from online 1 from daygame so it's all good. I'm following the golden rule; game other broads.

Live and learn. It's a lot less black and white in the field and there are a multitude of options for any given situation that will yield results. My cliff notes above probably don't cover everything.

So back to my question and this is the only thing I'm still unclear on. What advantage does professing interest during a turn-down have compared to the traditional excuse and apologize?

I can't tell you how many times a month I get turned down and it for real it doesn't even bother me. That would be crazy anyway, if I let it bother me I would be bothered probably permantly, 50 times a month or more. Day 1, day 2, fuck sesh 2, fuck sesh 3. An excuse without a follow up is a big bold sign that says "not interested". However it is confusing when they do that but also say they are interested. I feel like they're playing at something I'm clueless about, that's the part that bothers me.

Post: #14

Keep in mind that a lot of changes in girls' behavior have nothing to do with what you said or did. They are slaves of their cycles: a girls is a different person on her period, before ovulation, around ovulation, after ovulation, and before her period. Mood, horniness... everything changes uncontrollably, and most of the time she won't acknowledge it but rather blame other people for her bizarre behavior. The ideal thing would be to just bang girls out around ovulation time and then ignore for four weeks, sadly this is not always possible. There's a reason so many primitive communities told women to get the fuck out during their periods.

Post: #15

It sounds like you are judging what women say rather than what they do.

Judge their feelings towards you by their actions, not by what they say towards you.

When they say things about their feelings about you, don't take it seriously.

Women are normally afraid of confrontation and try to make up excuses or add things like "I'm still interested" when they let you down.

On the other hand they're normally flaky, and if they're talking to you they probably still have some interest in you. So you decide what you want to think about it.

Post: #16

(02-19-2017 04:00 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  So back to my question and this is the only thing I'm still unclear on. What advantage does professing interest during a turn-down have compared to the traditional excuse and apologize?

I think it's primarily a conflict-avoidance tactic; I've found women have a lot of ways to say "No" when it sounds a bit like they're saying "Yes."

"Going direct" is not women's strong point, I think they gain a fair amount of their own power through the power of remaining somewhat ambiguous.

I also admit that in a case like the first one you mention I've done something similar - I've banged a girl because it was on offer and seemed like an enjoyable thing to do at the time, but didn't really like the girl that much or see the relationship going anywhere, but pretended to be enthusiastic about another meetup and instead just faded out. It's sort of a way of saying "Thanks, the sex was fun but that's probably all I wanted out of this, sorry and good luck" without being socially uncalibrated and saying it directly.

Sometimes women just want a guy to be a "working dick" for a night, too. If women really believed that "all men want is sex" you'd think they'd be completely fine with just being direct and saying "Hey thanks but I just wanted a one time thing" but that's not often what they do, if she's trying to avoid conflict it must mean she expects that conflict would be in the offering, which means she knows there are guys who are going to feel taken advantage of and miffed that a longer term relationship wasn't on offer, in just the same fashion that women get.

Sort of like they don't really buy their own Kool Aid.

Additionally since it seemed like that situation was through social circle it could be a way of "saving face", i.e. women can be their own worst enemies when it comes to "slut shaming", and in many social groups outside the most hardcore bluehair feminists "Well I just wanted to get fucked and that's all I wanted" isn't an acceptable answer, so there needs to be a re-writing of history.

The last thing I would consider is that perhaps that girl was enthusiastic for a brief period after the first bang, but when you turned her down the first time her own hamster started to spin into overdrive, wondering if she was just a side-piece and that maybe you were going to ghost her first, so she felt she had to launch a pre-emptive strike. Women often have an enormous horror of rejection of any type, much worse than most men, and will sometimes do things that can seem pretty damn irrational to avoid the possibility of it.

(02-19-2017 04:00 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  Ex1 - I was a little too cocky and aggressive with her. I also showed her weakness a few times by getting upset when she stepped out of line instead of meeting it with an appropriate response. Frame fell apart and she lost interest. Lesson learned: when correcting a woman's behavior never do it out of anger. Most of the time the best thing to do is just withdraw and game other girls. Emotions were my enemy here. What got this girl to fuck me in the first place was my buddy said "he's a nice guy but don't fall in love with him". All I had to do was keep a solid aloof/dominant frame and it would've been smooth sailing. I need to read iceberg slims PIMP again.

I think this explanation is somewhat congruent if my last paragraph is on point - you overgamed her. Sometimes it pays to be aloof and cocky after a first night out if she's playing it cool as well and you're not really sure how things are going to line up, but you say at least initially she was really enthusiastic about a day 2. In a situation like that I think I wouldn't have tried to play aloof at all.

In the short period where women are still high from the experience of a "good date" with a guy they like they can be straight up and honest as Abe Lincoln about what they really want. I don't think I've ever gone wrong by taking a girl precisely at her word during that window of opportunity. If she says (as happened one time) "That was great, I'd really like it if you brought a nice bottle of wine and a collar for me to wear next time" then that's exactly what I'm doing!

No "cordial declines" here, I'd pretty much be saying "Bitch you want to take this D again right this minute? Come get it." In kinder terms, of course.

"You liked that and want to meet up again this weekend, eh? Absolutely, sounds great, meet me at this place at 8 and dress up nice, I'm looking forward to it." I wouldn't overthink that kind of after-bang enthusiasm on her part in the slightest if I'd given her the best fucking of her life, as you say you did. The frame I would have is- one of self-confidence, that I "made that sale" just right, and a girl being enthusiastic about a round two right away is just what one would expect.

Post: #17

Ex 1. She expected ONS and nothing more. She probably sleept with you only because she knew its one night only.
Ex 2 and 3. Each girl did not like you enough to meet up again.

Post: #18

(02-19-2017 10:15 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  I think it's primarily a conflict-avoidance tactic; I've found women have a lot of ways to say "No" when it sounds a bit like they're saying "Yes."

"Going direct" is not women's strong point, I think they gain a fair amount of their own power through the power of remaining somewhat ambiguous.

I would like to expand a little bit on XPQ22's excellent and very insightful observation mentioned above.

Girls are very cunning creatures and much smarter in their strategies than we would like to admit. That is not to say that these strategies are very well thought-out, akin to militaristic strategy or of a grandmaster positioning all his pieces before attack. I think, to a great extent, it's semi-conscious and a function of years of practice. An attractive 20 years old will have at least 5 years of experience under her belt dealing with men of varying age. Needless to say, through trial and error, a 20 years old will have an impressive skillset of dealing with men (of most types but not all) and position them on the chessboard according to her short and long term strategy.

The key strategy is to avoid confrontation, meaning making as many friends and as few foes as possible. What it means in practice, is imagining a female as a central spot of a circle which, figuratively, acts as a centre of gravity as well. Thus, her (potential) mating partners here'd be arranged around her in concentric circles. Mind you, this is a heuristic model, no science here, just my way of imaging how a female "works" males she comes to interaction with.

In game parlance, the closest circle are males she has a well established sexual relationship augmented by all benefits conferred onto her she deems useful (usually, emotional & economic provisioning). In other words, boyfriend, fiancee, husband.

Next concentric circle, further away, are fuckbuddies, exes, sponsors. Men whom she's having either consistent or semi-consistent sexual relation with.

Next one, men she has (or had) ONS, SDL, D2L, etc. with such that sexual relation is inconsistent or rare (and other benefits, if any, sparse).

Next one, potential men she is interested in because they seem to have a (reproductive and/or provisioning) potential suiting her goals, however either these men are inaccessible to her or she hasn't had time to evaluate them yet.

Next circle are men (aka orbiters - classmates, co-workers, colleagues, etc.) she's not sexually interested in but whom she deems useful for a variety of reasons and men who, at some point in the past were or might have been in some of the inner circles but became part of the outercircle (often permanently).

The outermost circle consists of males whom she interacts with but interactions are in majority of cases transient such that her gravity never pulls them towards any of her inner circles.

Necessarily, each outward circle has bigger circumference than the last and, consequently, represents more men within that particular circle. At all times, it is in the interest of a normal, healthy, socially adjusted female to exert a steady, gravitational pull such that she has all benefits (sex and non-sex related) she deems worth potentially available to her.

This is a dynamical system such that any men (apart from outermost circle) may jump back and forth between any of the circles as a function of time, her emotional standing, ovulation, other men's actions, where she lives and all the other key environmental variables influencing where she stands with particular men at any given time. It is environment in constant fluctuation, where there's imperfect information and predictions based on posterior probabilities (mind you, most of these are unconscious, though internalised through experience) and subsequent actions and, most importantly, these predicted actions work most of the time - but not always (see the caveat below).

All these men in certain relevant respects are useful to her well-being and it is in her interest to befriend them (either sexually and/or non-sexually) and keep them within the orbit of a particular circle but to avoid making any of them her foes. Thus, an ever increasing number of friends and keeping as few or none foes, benefits her by maximising her survival and reproductive chances. And all the attractive females now that their gravitational currency is their phenotypical attractiveness above all. Everything else comes second. And one key way to maximise survival and reproductive fitness is to never make foes, that is - never be confrontational with males, never discourage male interest in her, never admit a male is not worthy to spend time and resources on her. Other tactics abound.

Let's consider a widely-known, yet frustrating phenomenon of a short-term tactic relating to texting suitors, such that there is an unreasonable gap in response time (either temporary or permanent) at certain point in the interaction. In majority of cases, a man texts a female for the purpose of having sex or continuing having sex (inclusive of procreation) with her but, at some point, alongside the arrow of time, a female stops to respond (e.g., she has got to known another, more suitable mating partner). From a female perspective, it's an ideal strategy. She doesn't overtly creates a foe because she doesn't provide information. It allows her to re-establish, if a need arises an interaction (she is not anymore, for whatever reason with the newer suitor anymore), aka 'reverse monkey branching', further down the line (for she learnt from experience very few men will really move on and ignore her) and most men will happily continue the re-established interaction. If a men keeps contacting her after she stopped replying it provides her information regarding a man's genetic and social status (his alphaness) which is inversely proportional to the number of messages and time between the messages he keeps sending to her. The more he does, the more it means he has less females interested in them, therefore, indirectly he reveals that his mating potential is low to other females, hereby she shouldn't continue mating with him because his genes do not attract other females. Thereby, a 'radio silence' tactic seems to be, in most cases, a near perfect, from a female's perspective, tactic.

As mentioned above, all I wrote is a heuristic and many exemptions would abound. Conversely, men who restrain from keep messaging, send out indirectly information that their value is high(er) (or at least higher than men doggedly trying to re-establish contact with a female who stopped replying). To sum it up, in the context of not-responding or ceasing contact temporarily or permanently via messaging, a female deftly avoids actively creating a foe, though with a (low) potential cost of losing a 'friend'. I think it's an optimal strategy (though there's a caveat), for lack of provisioning of information, creating ambiguity allows to extend the time men stay within the centre of female's gravitational pull, with a female's prospective thinking, the men who are 'put on hold' may in the future jump back and forth between the circles as long as these men stay voluntarily (with an exemption of a marriage) within the sphere of her gravitational pull.

But what is the caveat? It's called game. I believe that game tactics and strategies allow to a significant degree to mitigate female strategy of being the chooser in the mating game. The overarching principle, perhaps, relates to a player having wide enough access to potential mates such that any given female and no particular time is in a position to control situation between her and him, that is she can't 'exert a gravitational pull' because that female is relatively easily replaceable by another female. Unfortunately, few men are in such a position in practice. Fortunately, exhibiting relevant behaviour is a bit easier and can be done with a strategy of abundance mentality and undertaking actions as if one was in a position of having immediate access to potential mates, even though this is not the case in practice.

Now, how does that relates to OP's post? I think I sidetracked a bit but the common denominator is here the grand strategy - make and keep friends, don't make foes for this is a beneficial survival and reproductive strategy. In other words, no negative, overt information will be provided unless forced to for avoiding conflict is much more advantageous strategy in the long term (and often short-term).

Post: #19

(02-19-2017 04:39 PM)ksbms Wrote:  Let's consider a widely-known, yet frustrating phenomenon of a short-term tactic relating to texting suitors, such that there is an unreasonable gap in response time (either temporary or permanent) at certain point in the interaction. In majority of cases, a man texts a female for the purpose of having sex or continuing having sex (inclusive of procreation) with her but, at some point, alongside the arrow of time, a female stops to respond (e.g., she has got to known another, more suitable mating partner). From a female perspective, it's an ideal strategy. She doesn't overtly creates a foe because she doesn't provide information. It allows her to re-establish, if a need arises an interaction (she is not anymore, for whatever reason with the newer suitor anymore), aka 'reverse monkey branching', further down the line (for she learnt from experience very few men will really move on and ignore her) and most men will happily continue the re-established interaction.

It's why I think it's futile for guys in any kind of relationship, short or long therm, to become obsessional about their girl talking to other guys or who she has in her phone - you might as well be asking her to stop being a woman. By obsessing about it and trying to "lay down the law" IMO all one's doing is indicating that you don't understand how women operate, you don't really "get it", i.e. you're a yuuuuge beta.

Have to find some other way to deal or get your head around it - I would suggest indirectly making it known that you yourself have a decent number of options in the wings too, should the need arise.

Post: #20

Wow gentlemen. Thank you for the expanded answers and explanations. It's clear there are decades of experience in this thread alone and I still have a lot to learn. Everything XPQ22 and ksbms pointed out I see truth in. Most people seem bitter about the nature of women but you both managed to point out some of the harder redpill truths to swallow without a single drop of bitterness or contempt.

Not only do I have deeper understanding about what is going on but I am re-examining my own behavioural patterns, which is what I live for. This forum is great, thanks again for the answers guys. +rep

Post: #21

(02-17-2017 07:23 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  ...
Example 1. Had a one night stand with a friend of a friend, probably gave her the best fucking of her life. Super friendly after and in texts. The next weekend she practically begs me to come see her and I don't but I'm cordial about it. A few days after; I invite her over and she declines but expresses interest in seeing me again. A week later same deal. Then I talk to our mutual friend and it turns out she said she's not into me at all. Why not just flake normally and not express interest at all?
...

Just curious. What endangered species were you saving that disallowed you to bang out this filly for the second time when she "begged" you to come see her?

See, you've kind of given her time to come to her senses (ie get attention from other men) where if you'd sustained the sexual relationship early on then she wouldn't have dumped you in orbiter status.

Here's a thought process to put in her head next time. Obviously don't use these words specifically.

"I'm too busy to go out right now. You heard me correctly. I'm not so desperate for sex that I'll put everything else on hold to get it. I'm happy to fast-track some casual sex for someone like yourself but I honestly don't have time/inclination to wine and dine you again."

This might manifest itself in textual relations as:

"Totally slammed right now. Working like a dog. Friday night(?) really took the edge off, though. Want to meet at my place for drinks after work tonight?"

If she's not worth dropping shit from your schedule to see again then you need to screen her for easy plate status. If it falls flat then cut your losses and move on. Plenty of fish in the sea. If it works? Great. You've established that you're the prize and she's willing to work around your needs, which is ultimately more arousing to her than the alternative.

But I'm not a top-tier player so I'm quite open to criticism on this.

Post: #22

Bitch hit me up at 11PM drunk trying to get me to drive across town to see her on a saturday night. I flat out told her I'm not driving and she started really begging around 1AM. I offered to pay for half a cab over to my place but she said she was broke. I had responsibilities the next day it just wasn't worth it for me.

Don't get me wrong I wanted to get laid but I obviously didn't value her enough and she saw that. I even think I could've gotten away with it if I didn't lose my frame with this girl. I let some beta ooze out when she flaked on me the next day. It wasn't awful cringe inducing shit, just lost my temper and told her that i don't forgive flaking. Bad game, didn't act right. Steady fucking up. With the agressive/cocky attitude I used with her even the scent of neediness would disable her ovaries and it clearly did.

Post: #23

(02-19-2017 07:23 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  Bitch hit me up at 11PM drunk trying to get me to drive across town to see her on a saturday night. I flat out told her I'm not driving and she started really begging around 1AM.

"Across town" meaning she lives in the same town? That's a bridge too far for you? You could have gotten there and busted two nuts by 1AM. It was Saturday night. You couldn't have handled some sleep deprivation?

I don't care if you were lukewarm towards this chick or not. She drunk-dialed you for an easy lay on a Saturday night and you turned her down repeatedly. Considering how few guys would turn down a sure thing like that (me included) she has every right to assume you were either banging someone else or you're just not even into her enough to want her as an F-buddy.

Post: #24

You don't see me here complaining. Nor am I questioning what you say here. I would make the same choice again too. I had this girl up until that point and probably could have even got away with that had I not acted out on some stupid shit later. I'm not at a point where I'm fucking a new girl every week, sometimes not even every month. I'm not hot shit like that. But women are 2nd priority to business and personal development. I run my own business and I had a meeting where I had to be 100% on my game the next morning. That means not looking tired, not being tired, showered shaved and smelling nice. I won't risk losing a new client over a 5, honestly I might over an 8 or 9 but I see that as weakness I'm not proud to admit.

I don't regret it but I know it was a point of stress that lead to failure. I'll make an ass out of myself and point out some other game fails if it's entertaining, I got some very comprehensive explanations in this thread that I'm still thinking about.

Post: #25

Medium Rare made a very great post. The hubris of treating new bangs, especially hot ones with options, is an easy trap to fall into when you are out there riding high. The extra care especially in the beginning stages after the first bang pays gigantic dividends and is much easier to possibly fuck up with hotter girls that have guys frothing after them.

PapayaTapper put together a great thing to remember. It's key and hard to drive most high quality girls wild unless you have that animal energy while also her knowing at all times if she turned down advances it is nothing but a fun game for you and the minute she makes it not fun you are onto the better game.