Post: #51

(03-08-2017 06:59 AM)Hypno Wrote:  I'm white collar guy, and I want something a little exciting. So Mercedes is a fine car, its just dull to me.

I used to have a BMW 3 series (E36). They are very common where I live. I know an M5 is different, but not enough different. 5 Series is a possibility, but I like the look of some of those others better.

If I had money for repairs I'd get this:



2011 BMW X5 M


It is professional looking, fun to drive, and bitches will recognize/get wet over a BMW before a god damn Jaguar (unless you are chasing cougars). I'm not knocking Jaguars in general, just the average woman's knowledge/appreciation of fine automobiles.

And if in proper shape the X5 M will smoke about any other car in this thread.

If you are self-employed and making bank, buy a new one and write it off (I believe you can deduct about $65k the first year and $35k, or the balance, the second year).

ETA: I just saw the bit about wanting a sports car. Disregard this post. Unless you want an SUV that drives like a sports car.

Post: #52

The only vehicle that will give you a more dangerous vibe is a motorcycle or maybe a hummer. You're going in the complete opposite direction.

To clarify, I mean that you should get a motorcycle, SUV or something else that says, "I don't care" more so than "I need to qualify myself with this luxury status symbol".

That's what will give you the more dangerous image that you're looking for.

Edit: I think the Chrysler 300 is a good example to use because the car doesn't necessarily look good, but it's relatively cheap, spacious and comfortable. It's just a boss IDGAF type of whip.

Post: #53

^ Also like other guys pointed out, make sure that you actually like the car rather than trying to make an image. For instance, a girl who gets picked up in a BMW / porsche but taken to a one-bedroom studio that rents for $200 a month will quickly see through the smoke screen. Now, if that's your situation, you can always use the "my house is in repairs, I'm staying here temporarly / it's a friend's flat", it might work but not optimal.

Post: #54

(03-08-2017 07:09 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 05:21 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  Corvette hands down! If I had the money and a safe place to store it (and lived someplace where it doesn't snow) I'd be getting one of the 50s early 60s models or an 80s C4 if I'm on a budget.

are you talking investment or fun?

What do you think of C3 - why did you skip that one? Anything before a C3 is out of sight price wise, C4s are ugly. Later models are OK too but it sounds like you are talking investment.

I liked the 80s C3s, my father had one.

Post: #55

The only car you should be looking at is a nice Mercedez. All the cars you listed will cost an arm and a leg, not to mention hassle and downtime, in repairs.

Post: #56

Try a Lexus LS 460. You might even be able to find the F sport version 10 years old for under $25k. Though with 460 horses it may have been shitbagged, but likely less so as this is a big sedan mostly overlooked by guys who want to show off their power.

There is a BMW 7 series for sale by my place for $30k, 2011. V8 engine is reliable but being a very luxurious car I am willing to bet many of the electronic features are fucked. Its crazy to see a car drop in value $100k in 5 years! Lots of 7 series BMW's in the $40k range with 60k miles. One of the nicer big luxury sedans I have ever been in, especially as a passenger in the back.

Persian girls have kept the prices of Porsche high here, so not a good value.

I love the E class benz. Reliable, classy and far more masculine than the C class IMO. Might be because every Asian girl in Vancouver drives a C class. Still a nice car though.

Post: #57

For $25k cash if you want a real head-turner that is fun to ride I would look on ebay or craigslist for a old 60's muscle car. That kind of money could buy you an almost showroom quality ride and would definitely get attention wherever you go.

Post: #58

(03-09-2017 12:33 AM)polymath Wrote:  1) You're not going to fool anybody, if that's what you're going for. Stuff that sells for $25k usually looks like it is worth $25k, otherwise there would be some inattentive sucker willing to pay more and justify a higher asking price. Even something so simple as a ticking engine can give away the reality of the situation. Not criticizing the idea, just telling you the truth. I have a friend who bought an older Ferrari. Great car but he once got called out by a group of girls he rolled up to, for driving a cheap Ferrari and trying to look rich (frankly, he was and still is quite wealthy). If a bunch of airheads in LA can tell the difference, I think anyone can.

Second this after you chimed in on my previous comment. It sounds like you want something 1) late model because you don't want to look old 2) a car that used to be expensive but isn't anymore and 3) something low maintenance that won't break down on you easily. Just having one of these attributes limit your choices but requiring all three makes it nearly impossible, especially at your price point.

Also, damn what kind of Ferrari was this, polymath? My cousin's got a 2007 F430 and even for a 10 year car it looks very sleek and modern. He bought it for $120k with a little under 20k miles on the odometer. He gets looks and people shouting questions at him all the time and it's considered the "entry level Ferrari".

Post: #59

E46 325i or 330i (M-sport variants)

I picked mine up for £1500 ($1827) and have had no issues with it.

You have to keep on top of general maintenance (there's a boat load of forums and self DIY guides for issues online) but I think it's worth it for the fun you can have with these.

They are plenty quick and from my own personal experiences the ladies love them.

Post: #60

(03-08-2017 01:54 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  TVR Tuscan (British made, reliable, exotic factor)

TVRs are notorious for being unreliable and when it breaks down good luck finding parts for it. They've ceased making cars back in 2006. The engines are old Rover engines and they stopped making cars back in 2005.

Add on the rarity of the car you'll find servicing and maintenance will be very expensive even if it isn't a particularly complicated car to work on. Isn't OP in the US? Did they even sell TVRs there? If they didn't it will be practically impossible to drive it legally.

OP if you want a classic sports car that has both style and luxury then a Mercedes 560 SEC should do very well 5.5L V8 selling on eBay for around $5000. then use the remainder of your $25k on either pimping the shit out of it or buying a more practical everyday car.

Post: #61

^Surprised the 560 SEC isn't selling for more, usually 2-door Mercedes hold value highly. Or is that only the "SE" convertibles?

Post: #62

(03-09-2017 03:11 PM)scrambled Wrote:  ^Surprised the 560 SEC isn't selling for more, usually 2-door Mercedes hold value highly. Or is that only the "SE" convertibles?

I introduce to you the world of the Mercedes Benz CL. The successor to the SEC. Ignoring the W140 models as some of those can exchange for crazy high amounts. Good luck finding a CL60 AMG, CL70 AMG, CL72 AMG or a CL73 AMG for less than $100k. Especially the more obscure one (70, 72 & 73) as there's probably less than 50 total in existence.

I'm talking the C215 generation onwards. A car than in the year 2000 had a sticker price of about £100,000 and good luck getting a discount on that. These machines, which were the flagship Mercedes models are changing hands for less than 5% of the original selling price and you get a heck of a lot of car for your money. These things today are probably more luxurious than your top of the line 2017 Honda or Toyota and are a hell of a lot faster. Tempting buy indeed but there is a reason why they so cheap.

All those electronics something is bound to go wrong and cause it's a Mercedes when something goes wrong it is going to cost you. There value is so low than insurance companies are probably writing them off because the stereo stops working.

You can buy a 2002 CL600 for £5000 and for that you get a 6L normally aspirated 360hp car. The performance is great, the ride is smooth and knowing that almost any electric fault is going to cost you more than the price you paid for the car must be worth it right?

Wrong. These vehicles are so cheap because of how fragile they are. Unless you have some serious cash to spend fixing it or changing it completely than any 2 seat Mercedes coupe post 1990 to present day is not worth it.

Unless you the type of like to go fast in a straight line then pay a bit more for the twin turbo C216 model. Strip it out and get rid of all the unnecessary electrics. Bore out the engine and enlarge the turbo, strengthen the chassis and gearbox and you got yourself one hell of a European drag racer. C216 V12 TT will reach 200mph without the limiter anyway. Add a couple hundred extra horses under the hood and you've got yourself a supercar destroyer for 1/3rd the price.

Old school SL held there value. Some of the modern day ones are holding well. F1 edition, black edition etc. Modern Mercedes depreciate fast cause of the high risk of problems. My dads ML 350 does so few miles he's had to install a solar panel to keep the battery charged up. Too many electrics on the car and the little miles that gets ton then alternator doesn't have the time to charge up!

Post: #63

(03-09-2017 01:08 PM)booshala Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 12:33 AM)polymath Wrote:  1) You're not going to fool anybody, if that's what you're going for. Stuff that sells for $25k usually looks like it is worth $25k, otherwise there would be some inattentive sucker willing to pay more and justify a higher asking price. Even something so simple as a ticking engine can give away the reality of the situation. Not criticizing the idea, just telling you the truth. I have a friend who bought an older Ferrari. Great car but he once got called out by a group of girls he rolled up to, for driving a cheap Ferrari and trying to look rich (frankly, he was and still is quite wealthy). If a bunch of airheads in LA can tell the difference, I think anyone can.

Second this after you chimed in on my previous comment. It sounds like you want something 1) late model because you don't want to look old 2) a car that used to be expensive but isn't anymore and 3) something low maintenance that won't break down on you easily. Just having one of these attributes limit your choices but requiring all three makes it nearly impossible, especially at your price point.

Also, damn what kind of Ferrari was this, polymath? My cousin's got a 2007 F430 and even for a 10 year car it looks very sleek and modern. He bought it for $120k with a little under 20k miles on the odometer. He gets looks and people shouting questions at him all the time and it's considered the "entry level Ferrari".

Thanks for all the well intended comments.

I'm probably 20 years older than most of the people on this forum and have a higher earning profession, so while the comments are well intended they don't really apply to me.

From my perspective, I'm going to spend $25,000 on a car regardless. I'm trying to estimate the incremental repair costs and headaches of getting something a little more exotic. As Mike Cernovich says, don't buy (pay for) status unless it has a positive ROI. I have a good sense of the benefits a $25,000 Porsche will give me over say a $25,000 Camry; what I don't have a good sense is the incremental cost of the Porsche in terms of repairs and reliability. If both cars are $25,000, you can't determine the ROI until you know the full cost. I can handle it regardless, I just don't want surprises.

Post: #64

I've read up on forums on the 560 sec .they SAY they were build to be easy to maintain and with the autobahn in mind. If you don't stay on top of the maintenance the car will be puking oil in the driveway.so if anyone goes that route I'd do some of the work myself,as much as I could,and also find a reliable Mercedes mechanic.


Little something more you or anyone interested in these cars could read.

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/cars-of-a...-car-ever/

Post: #65

I've read up on forums on the 560 sec .they SAY they were build to be easy to maintain and with the autobahn in mind. If you don't stay on top of the maintenance the car will be puking oil in the driveway.so if anyone goes that route I'd do some of the work myself,as much as I could,and also find a reliable Mercedes mechanic.

Post: #66

out of the brands you posted I'd look for a used Porsche Cayman. I personally don't like the Boxster and the base models have the hairdresser's car reputation. The hard top version is capable and reasonably reliable given your alternatives. Your decent 911 options are basically nil at that price.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a C6 Corvette and you should be able to find something like a 2010-12 in your price ballpark.

I wouldn't want to touch a $25k Jaguar, Range Rover, or Maserati without a healthy appetite for DIY repair or a healthy budget for someone else to do it.

Post: #67

(03-09-2017 05:58 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Thanks for all the well intended comments.

I'm probably 20 years older than most of the people on this forum and have a higher earning profession, so while the comments are well intended they don't really apply to me.

From my perspective, I'm going to spend $25,000 on a car regardless. I'm trying to estimate the incremental repair costs and headaches of getting something a little more exotic. As Mike Cernovich says, don't buy (pay for) status unless it has a positive ROI. I have a good sense of the benefits a $25,000 Porsche will give me over say a $25,000 Camry; what I don't have a good sense is the incremental cost of the Porsche in terms of repairs and reliability. If both cars are $25,000, you can't determine the ROI until you know the full cost. I can handle it regardless, I just don't want surprises.

I appreciate the dialogue and I didn't mean to come off as snippy. It just seemed like you wanted an automotive unicorn, (cheap/newish/reliable/sexy) but the way you flesh it out makes more sense to me now.

If $25k is blow it money, why not just apply it to a short lease and get yourself into a new Jaguar F-Type or something along those lines? 2 years at around $1000/month will get you a lot of options and you won't have to worry about maintenance because it's all under warranty.

My custom build 911 just arrived in dock last weekend and I'm justifying the monthly payments because my business is successful and my investments have panned out. Also, I'm going to be moving out of the US after the lease is up and live car-free for the foreseeable future. I'm 36 so I don't think I'll be labeled an old man in a sports car, but even if I were in my 50's or 60's, I wouldn't let some haters keep me from spending my money the way I wanted.

Post: #68

(03-07-2017 10:14 PM)GeneralMacDaddy Wrote:  Why not BMW, Mercedes?

Yes maintenance costs can be an issue, but much less than Range Rover, Maserati, or Jaguar. Used Mercedes, many (not all) of them are built very well, especially the AMG models that have hand-built engines and better suspension, plus all the bells and whistles come standard. Find a clean, well maintained one from a southern state (no rust) and you can get something nice for $25k.

Or go for BMW and get an M3 / 335 or M5 / 535.

The V10 (V10!!) BMW m5 versions are in that price range now, years 2005-2010, pretty unique vehicle.

Have fun!

General MacD is right. V10 M5 is a fast, great looking car. That era and price range are great, fit and finish is excellent. If you can pull a relatively low mileage vehicle, you can clean up.

Post: #69

Of everything I've seen mentioned, I'd recommend a C6 Corvette or CTS-V.

Jaguars and Range Rovers have a poor reputation for quality and its been well-cutivated over time. Regardless of ownership, JLR cannot build a car that lasts. There are exceptions (older Straight-Six XJs, some Discos), but generally speaking, these cars are woeful nightmares waiting to happen. If you don't mind tinkering yourself or know a buddy/gearhead who does, don't bother. You're going to force yourself into relying on an import specialist mechanic to do your maintenance and anyone who is competent knows they can charge. The good aspect for Jaguars, though, is they depreciate quick and stay down there, but again, for good reason.

Owning a Maserati is like being in a LTR with a solid 9.5 who has herpes - head-turning gorgeous, but you know what lurks beneath. And when it flares up? Fuggedaboutit.

Porsches are nice cars, but the $25k range puts you at an older model and in the heart of a potential issue with IMS (InterMidate Shaft) failures, a problem that can casue catestrophic engine failure and not knowing comprehensive service history of a particular car can leave you in the dark.

Don't let the Corvette stereotypes dissuade you from enjoy one hell of a car. Its a great value in the segment for a reason and picking up an '07-08 coupe with miles in the mid-50s for your budget should not be an issue. Most Corvettes ARE owned by older people, so you don't end up with an abused, shaken-down car. Most are kept well and pampered as second- or third-vehicles and they show. The small-block V8 can't be killed and you can make these things your own with all the aftermarket and custom support in the world.

Post: #70

(03-09-2017 10:17 PM)booshala Wrote:  I appreciate the dialogue and I didn't mean to come off as snippy. It just seemed like you wanted an automotive unicorn, (cheap/newish/reliable/sexy) but the way you flesh it out makes more sense to me now.

If $25k is blow it money, why not just apply it to a short lease and get yourself into a new Jaguar F-Type or something along those lines? 2 years at around $1000/month will get you a lot of options and you won't have to worry about maintenance because it's all under warranty.

My custom build 911 just arrived in dock last weekend and I'm justifying the monthly payments because my business is successful and my investments have panned out. Also, I'm going to be moving out of the US after the lease is up and live car-free for the foreseeable future. I'm 36 so I don't think I'll be labeled an old man in a sports car, but even if I were in my 50's or 60's, I wouldn't let some haters keep me from spending my money the way I wanted.

Lease is a terrible option for a private person. Lease is even a lousy financial option for a mid-size company.

The only company who is doing well with a lease is a large multinational company with their own bank. You can really calculate the net savings there if you don't pick a new car.

By the way - OP - you can get a 5yo Mercedes Benz CLS for that money:



In Germany you could even get an AMD version for that kind of money - and the original buyer spent 60.000-70.000$ on it.

Post: #71

(03-10-2017 03:03 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Lease is a terrible option for a private person. Lease is even a lousy financial option for a mid-size company.

The only company who is doing well with a lease is a large multinational company with their own bank. You can really calculate the net savings there if you don't pick a new car.

By the way - OP - you can get a 5yo Mercedes Benz CLS for that money:



In Germany you could even get an AMD version for that kind of money - and the original buyer spent 60.000-70.000$ on it.

With respect, Zelescorpion I disagree with your statement that leasing is necessarily a terrible option. In fact, I used to be one of those people who would automatically say the same thing whenever folks around me would talk about leasing so I think I have an idea where the statement is coming from but hear me out.

Firstly, there are some absolutely crazy lease deals out there. For instance, this deal for a 2 year Chevy Cruze that had a positive return of $23.80: https://leasehackr.com/blog/2015/11/25/e...th-0-down. You would be "making money" with this deal. Obviously, insurance would still make it a net negative and you'd have to value the $700 Costco card as 1:1 to cash, but you get the idea that it's still a slamming deal.

That site has plenty of other examples of leases with extremely low payments that stem from very low money factors, high residuals and big discounts off MSRP. e.g. Infiniti Q50's for $180/month, well equipped E-classes for $289/month, all $0 down. These lease deals are much better from a financial perspective than if you bought them outright and although uncommon, they pop up every month, sometimes multiple times a month.

And even if you are paying more for a lease than if you'd purchased the car and sold it after the equivalent timeframe, there are many intrinsic factors that aren't easily quantifiable but could provide oversized value to a lessee. In my case, I know I'm paying 28% of the car's value for the two years I have it. I doubt I'd be able to get the same resale value on the open market, and I'd have no idea what the economy would look like in 2019, or if I'd have to take a big haircut on it if I had to suddenly move.

I'm never going to worry about maintenance issues because they're all covered under warranty unlike in a used car past 5+ years out. In the event of a total loss, gap insurance will pay off the difference between the payout my primary insurance provider doles out and what's left on the lease payments. The freedom and certainty (albeit at a financial cost) of the lease is worth the extra money to me to avoid these headaches.

Circling back to the OP's follow up statements: he wants the car to inject a more dangerous vibe, he's trying to avoid an old car because he was afraid it'd remind people of his age, and he's in a high earner profession. My initial recommendation of a Datsun 240z and the 996 Porsche with the IMS fix were rebuffed so I figured I'd suggest this angle. Seems to me that if you're going to play maintenance Russian Roulette with these 5-10 year old German tanks you'd have a good chance of spending a hefty percentage of that initial $25k on repairs or see the value of the car drop accordingly when you try and offload it. Why not instead look into leveraging that $25k into something that's obviously brand new which checks off one of his boxes? Especially if he can afford it.

This response is already too wordy as it is but it gets into strong feelings I have that Americans are very spoiled when it comes to the affordability of luxury goods. To wit, a business partner recently paid $360k USD for his base Porsche 911 in Singapore. The guy booked a seven figure bonus after his trading desk hit champion numbers and he finally felt that he could treat himself to his dream car. When he found out what I'll be paying for a similarly equipped model he lost his shit and jealously cursed me out for five minutes straight. In SG they gotta scrap their cars or export them after 10 years, so it's an even shittier deal and another reminder to grab on to every advantage I can take while I'm still a resident of the US.

TLDR: Lease deals can sometimes be fantastic financial decisions and even when they're more expensive than buying, they can still be worth it.

Post: #72

< Sorry - you haven't researched it well enough.

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/here-are-f...1679935623

Why do you think wealthy folk buy a car upfront and don't lease?

Any justifications are mental gymnastics. The car depreciation alone justifies buying used. Drive off the car lot and take a 20% price fall even if you take a trip around the block.

There are other issues concerned with it. Big corporations offer it at 0% financing (excluding massive fees), because they get 0% financing by the central banks - you don't and most companies don't either.

The funny thing is that if you research long-term rental contracts vs leasing then you find out that some offers are almost identical except that you get a car that is 2 years old vs brand new.

Leasing of new cars, purchase of self-used real estate at the top of your credit ability, marriage with no pre-nup, life-insurance policies for investment - those are major reasons why the middle class stays middle class. Their only hope is that the house rises in property value, which works out only at certain periods.

Either way - no reason to despair. I get it - the leasing car advantage was sold very well by the companies - no doubt about it.

Post: #73

(03-09-2017 01:34 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  E46 325i or 330i (M-sport variants)

I picked mine up for £1500 ($1827) and have had no issues with it.

You have to keep on top of general maintenance (there's a boat load of forums and self DIY guides for issues online) but I think it's worth it for the fun you can have with these.

They are plenty quick and from my own personal experiences the ladies love them.

Do you also own three phones and a set of gram scales?

Post: #74

Buy Porsche. Make sure to make the 111 checkpoints. It costs but it will tell you what problems the car has. An issue with Porsche is service. They are not exclusive anymore but didn't upgraded the structure to masses. Also new parts are not cheaper because the car is used.
Boxsters drive like karts 911 are more heavy And strong.

Key ignition is on the left side. Legend is for you to start the car And change gears immediately.


Ferraris are a different bread. The first thing dealer told me was it's all plastic. Electronics also work badly. It's italian. But driving a458 is different from any other car. Just by buckling the seatbelt you know you're in a different car. You will see pictures of your car in facebook pages. If you drive a car like this all day. The motor will catch fire.
There's a blog about a guy who bought a ferrari.

Post: #75

i'm not going to lease.

if i buy used at $25K, depending on the original value, i'm knocking off somewhere from 1/3 to 2/3s of the original value in depreciation. from there, it depreciates slowly.

the beauty with many cars like this - especially the ones that tend towards luxury rather than sport - is that after 3 years there is very little market for them. If you can afford a jag, you buy it new, so the resale is poor. That's an advantage when buying used.