Post: #1

Inspired by Roosh’s video on respect for cold approachers and how rare this is, I’ve coded 230 wedding stories from TheKnot.com to see how commonly this turns into marriage. Yes, many of us will choose not to get married, others want to pass on the family name to their kids someday knowing the grave risks, and a lot of this info applies to LTRs as well.

This is different from how-couples-met studies on the issue because
1) It’s not scientific
2) It only includes weddings occurring in 2017
3) I only coded couples where the bride WB – no omega marriages

A couple of notes:
1) “Social circle” includes HS sweethearts, which is still quite common, especially in the South
2) I gave the groom credit for cold approach even if the woman approached him first as long as she was indirect and the man was able to take the hint and steer the convo towards heterosexuality. There was 1 cold approach where the girl actually approached the man with direct game and after they had interacted for a while, suggested a first-date venue to him.
3) These numbers likely underestimate the percentage of Internet couples. A few brides are still sheepish about admitting this publicly and won't say how they met, just hamster out statements like "we started long-distance" or "we first met on day X..." or "our first date was at..." I didn't code those, but they were probably Internet.

Couples who met through:
Social Circle – 67.4% (155)
Work – 14.8% (34)
Internet – 9.6% (22)
Male cold approach – 7.8% (18)
Female cold approach – 0.4% (1)

My takeaways are
1) You need a social circle, e.g. night classes at your local college to supplement your cold approaches
2) Social-circle betas are so conditioned to uselessly orbit that they will automatically do so even if the girl is attracted. Story after story about the bride wondering when the beta was going to escalate as she kept dropping hints.
3) Most “work” relationships generally start in just one of four industries - retail, food service, education, medicine. Most were fairly equal in the hierarchy.
4) With the college-for-all mantra so strong, “high school sweethearts” will often trial break-up when they start attending different colleges. No one is encouraging 20-year-olds to marry anymore. She is seeing if the grass is greener and if any man can be more exciting than Mr. Hometown. In many cases, she probably would have liked to have been swooped by such a man, but none ever showed up. It's a really good opportunity for a worldly, well-traveled game-aware man in his mid- to late-20s who takes some classes.

Post: #2

I'd believe that. Social circle has netted me some of my highest quality relationships over the years.

Post: #3

People have such varied lifestyles these days compared to the old-school nuclear family model.
It does not surprise me that people who get to know each other to a greater extent in a social setting have more success.

Cold approach from the left side of a girl.
"Oh... so, you're a vegan, cross-fit fanatic who voted for Hillary, you work for Green Peace & I see now that you have a nose ring on your right side.
That's just so quaint..."

Post: #4

Dude this shit is crazy, props for putting it all together. One metric I would've been really keen to see is age. I'd wager age differences are far more common in the case of cold approaches than with social circle.

Bear in mind, the great bulk of these men most likely have decent to shit social skills as a whole and weak game. Just because betas will orbit relentlessly and eventually get their shot doesn't mean you can't hijack the process.

Although I personally wouldn't rule out SMART day game, if your goal is to meet LTR material, social circle is the most reliable way to do it indeed. However, focus on getting warm intros rather than trying to build as many "deep and meaningful" friendships as you can. Not in an overtly dickish way, just focus most of your efforts on casting as wide of a net as possible. I've wasted far too much time and energy on people I shouldn't have, and it's a mistake I won't ever repeat again.

Identifying the few key people that truly have social capital and bind groups together, and investing BIG TIME in those relationships, is the greatest shortcut I have found in that regard. Things are not as cut and dry in real life tho, and it will take practice.

Post: #5

I'd like to point out the obvious empirical reason for these statistics: most relationships in general spark from social circle.

This is purely from my own observations, but it seems to me that most people who date eachother tend to meet through friends/school/work/growing up in the same neighborhood/family friends/church/etc. While we here in this community focus a lot on pickup and approaching strange women - the majority of people do not. People are generally creatures of comfort and will meet people in controlled, vetted, and very casual non-confrontational scenarios. At least this is my perspective.

Post: #6

Social psychology coined a proximity principle to account for the tendency for individuals to form interpersonal relations with those who are close by. that is, "[...] studies provide evidence to support the fact that people who encounter each other more frequently tend to develop stronger relationships."

Post: #7

What interesting is to see whether relationships/marriages through social circle last longer than
those from internet, work or cold approach...haha imagine how much money you'd make if you
created a formula that predicted how long a relationship would last...

...technically you could analyze data that includes background and behavioral trends...
that would be a sweet app...

Post: #8

Interesting research. Thanks for taking the time to read through and cobble together your findings. Like others have said, not terrible surprising that social circle is the number one way those couples have met. Guys, by and large, are chicken's when approaching women so having an "in" is often times a big leg up.

Post: #9

I don't think the women are lying about the numbers here. I'm not surprised that 2/3 of attractive women are meeting men via social circles.

In my own experience, although I haven't been online for a long time, fat women use the Internet dating a lot.

Of course, with the rise of social media, the Internet could be the social circle. For example, let's say I "meet" a woman on Facebook and we have 80 mutual Facebook friends. Does that count as meeting her on the Internet or meeting her through my social circle?

Post: #10

I got married this year and I met my wife off a cold approach. I suppose I can count myself among the stats in the OP.

Before that, I used social circle a lot, but went cold approaches much more towards the end because my social circle ran out of decent girls. In fact, most of the hottest girls I've ever got came from a cold approach.

I suspect most of the guys here did not grow up with a social circle that has plenty of babes, and we aren't the types that would go "whatever she'll do" and be happy with some mediocre or fat chick. Some guys I know are lucky they're in social circles with hot girls, but few truly make good use of it. A good friend of mine hangs out all the time with yoga instructors, singers and theatre girls, yet he is still pining for some chick that dumped him from a while ago. If I were him I'd be running through them like a bull!

On the other side, my wife rejected every guy in her social circles (school, church, home town) because they were too young, too effeminate/gay-looking and acting, skinny legged / did not even lift, too socially weird, and most of all, none were leader-materials. She always tells me how happy she is that I boldly approached her at a ball (while she was surrounded by her group of cockblocking girlfriends) instead of meeting me through her existing social circles. It also gives her a great story (ours was almost literally like in a classic movie) to brag about over her friends who tend to meet their husbands or boyfriends in rather boring ways (school or church usually).

So meet girls through whichever avenue that is most productive to you, but never stop cold approaching. Top quality women reward the boldest men.

Post: #11

(03-12-2017 12:04 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I'm not surprised that 2/3 of attractive women are meeting men via social circles.

The thing with attractive women is that everyone wants to be around them, in some capacity. Women want to be friends because they know that cute girls attract quality guys light a candle attracts moths, and they're hoping some of those quality guys (or their friends) will like them. Men will orbit around such women in the hopes that someday she'll come around, or perhaps she might intro them to her hot friends, or just make them look good when they're out.

So it's not surprising that more attractive women probably have social circles with a higher proportion of eligible men, than mediocre or unattractive women do. Which in turn would lead to such stats...

Post: #12

(03-12-2017 07:00 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  I got married this year and I met my wife off a cold approach. I suppose I can count myself among the stats in the OP.

Before that, I used social circle a lot, but went cold approaches much more towards the end because my social circle ran out of decent girls. In fact, most of the hottest girls I've ever got came from a cold approach.

I suspect most of the guys here did not grow up with a social circle that has plenty of babes, and we aren't the types that would go "whatever she'll do" and be happy with some mediocre or fat chick. Some guys I know are lucky they're in social circles with hot girls, but few truly make good use of it. A good friend of mine hangs out all the time with yoga instructors, singers and theatre girls, yet he is still pining for some chick that dumped him from a while ago. If I were him I'd be running through them like a bull!

On the other side, my wife rejected every guy in her social circles (school, church, home town) because they were too young, too effeminate/gay-looking and acting, skinny legged / did not even lift, too socially weird, and most of all, none were leader-materials. She always tells me how happy she is that I boldly approached her at a ball (while she was surrounded by her group of cockblocking girlfriends) instead of meeting me through her existing social circles. It also gives her a great story (ours was almost literally like in a classic movie) to brag about over her friends who tend to meet their husbands or boyfriends in rather boring ways (school or church usually).

So meet girls through whichever avenue that is most productive to you, but never stop cold approaching. Top quality women reward the boldest men.

This is exactly what I was trying to get at when I said don't get discouraged by the stats and don't try to follow the same process, since the prototype RvF member should be able to hijack it reliably given the right set of circumstances.

Although to counter your point about social circle, I'll say this much. You can make quite a strong impression off social circle as well. Having a warm open is always preferred, and you don't necessarily have to lose the wild card appeal. As with everything in life though, people usually treat their social circle pretty passively, and definitely mindlessly. Doesn't mean you should. You can be quite ruthless about it and go through meeting lots of people on a daily basis, strictly get their contact info and focus on making a strong impression, but not invest that much energy yourself into the actual relationship on an individual basis. It's definitely a skill set that can be acquired, although you'll crash and burn, alienate some people and go through a lot of drama sometimes.

The problem I have with cold approaching for LTRs is that your chances of hitting on rare gems are very slim, even if you do it in the kind of settings which naturally filter out a lot of the undesirables. And if you have a particular list of requirements that rules out the vast majority of women, like I do, relying on this solely would be a grave mistake. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm familiar with your story, and you've said it that you couldn't believe the luck you had finding this girl. I concur.

Post: #13

what are the limits of social circle?

I had a great relationship with a woman I met at a party. the party was thrown by the college roommate of one of my childhood friends; my childhood friend A told me to come to his college roommate B's party. B had a roommate, C, and C invited a girl he had known for a long time; think they went to college together. So I'm a friend of a Friend of a friend of a friend of a roommate.

Worked out well for me, but that is like 5 degrees of separation. I guess I should be proud that I am working my social network to the bone, both figuratively and literally. This was probably an extreme example. I guess the lesson is when you have a party encourage your guests to bring multiple, extended friends? The people in your immediate network are too familiar. The one or two steps removed is ideal hunting ground because there are new, interesting people there and when you meet them at the same party you feel a level of comfort, which accelerates things. The guy at the keg who made everyone do a shot in order to get a beer also accelerated things.

Post: #14

I don't advocate only cold approaching for LTR, I said don't drop cold approaching and only focus on social circles, just because the stats suggest that the majority of couples meet through that. Stats don't tell the full story (how strong the relationship is, how much the woman is into the man she's marrying) and also you only need 1 for LTR, while with lays you really want to play the numbers.

Cold approaching can land you a very strong LTR (as in my case), and also the boldness you have from being able to cold approach will serve you very well with social circle game. I primarily did social circle game, if we talk in pure numbers, and I'd stand out from the other guys because they get a little too eager around girls they get an easy introduction to via friends.

Post: #15

(03-13-2017 04:59 AM)crottstep Wrote:  The problem I have with cold approaching for LTRs is that your chances of hitting on rare gems are very slim, even if you do it in the kind of settings which naturally filter out a lot of the undesirables. And if you have a particular list of requirements that rules out the vast majority of women, like I do, relying on this solely would be a grave mistake. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm familiar with your story, and you've said it that you couldn't believe the luck you had finding this girl. I concur.

First of, great post, OP.

Second, crottstep, I find that this is my issue as well. As social circles age with you, and women get worse and worse (and are selected out as worse, proven by not being in relationships as time passes) in general it is hard to traverse age gaps AND have social circle, in a sense, given western culture (a lot of people age you out of what they consider to be reasonable range and don't even suggest a warm meet or pairing).

It is tough to find suitable women, because most that are "left" are quite frankly ... old. And not erection producing, sadly.

Post: #16

Well I haven't been in that position myself yet - spending really extensive periods of my life around the same group of people - but I can't think of any easy solutions. What I been through, and the only thing I can suggest really if this is a priority to you, is simply starting over from scratch in a new place. Preferably one where the quality of women as a whole is an upgrade. You'll have to figure out an angle that gives you an in with the younger crowd, but nothing worth having in life is ever easy.

Aside from a handful of relationships I can count on one hand, I view friendships as nothing more than a common set of interests binding 2 people together for a certain amount of time. That's all it really boils down to in the grand scheme of things. So cut your losses already and move on if your needs are no longer being satisfied by the group of people you associate with.

I know it's not that simple for the great majority of people, since work can keep you pinned down in the same place for a long ass time.

Post: #17

(03-15-2017 02:54 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  It is tough to find suitable women, because most that are "left" are quite frankly ... old. And not erection producing, sadly.

What's left is, well... the leftovers.

Post: #18

I'd be very interested to see "Social Circle" broken down into 3 sub-categories: high school, college, other. Most people's social network dwindles way down once they're out of school.

For me at least, the process of making friends tends to just be natural/unconscious gravitation toward the most like-minded of the set of people I'm exposed to regularly. Every real friend I've ever had has been a neighborhood kid, someone I went to school with, or someone I worked with. I can't even imagine joining some little once-a-week activity and making friends I'd hang out with outside of it. I suspect this is generally the case for introverts.

I'm curious if lots of people have managed, unlike me, to continue building a fruitful social circle after their school career is over, or if almost all of the "Social Circle" marriages were high school/college sweethearts.

Post: #19

Something amusing but slightly annoying that seems to be more common than not, wondering if anyone has come across it:

In the rare times that some people (family, community, ethnicity etc) try to hook you up or suggest that x and y get together, it always seems to be the same or near the same age bracket. For example, I was chatting with a family friend who referred to another mutual friend that said "oh, I think this girl would be good for Kid Twist, because xyz" then the killer "and they're about the same age"

Here's the kicker: I'm mid-late 30s. If I were mid-late 20s, it might be reasonable ... but my question is, are these people oblivious?

Suspend internet belief, for a second and humor me - I'm over 6' got a good career, just trying to be real here. I wanna turn to whomever and just say why the F would I go out with a girl my age? Is that not very obvious, at least to some? I feel like as above, they are in fact brainless or oblivious when it comes to this[/i]

Post: #20

(03-15-2017 06:51 PM)Delta Wrote:  I'd be very interested to see "Social Circle" broken down into 3 sub-categories: high school, college, other. Most people's social network dwindles way down once they're out of school.

For me at least, the process of making friends tends to just be natural/unconscious gravitation toward the most like-minded of the set of people I'm exposed to regularly. Every real friend I've ever had has been a neighborhood kid, someone I went to school with, or someone I worked with. I can't even imagine joining some little once-a-week activity and making friends I'd hang out with outside of it. I suspect this is generally the case for introverts.

I'm curious if lots of people have managed, unlike me, to continue building a fruitful social circle after their school career is over, or if almost all of the "Social Circle" marriages were high school/college sweethearts.

You are right, nearly all "social circle" was college/HS and some church. NOT stuff that white-collar professionals might hope for like "mutual friends from the dog park" or "my reading club friend's brother" etc.

There was a couple that met at a professional event, so built-in preselection, but it was still a cold approach because they were strangers. The groom did well for himself; he looked older than the bride and was barely her height. She noticed right off that he had a "confident" vibe, inner game FTW.

There were a few couples that met in HS but were actually coded as cold approach! One was a big HS and the girl indirectly opened the boy, whom she hadn't met before, about the video game he was playing on his tablet by his locker. The kid was sharp enough to pick up on the IOI and turn it into a flirtatious interaction and started dating her.

Another couple met as students from different small towns attending their teams' football game.