Post: #1

Background: I'm 35, recently married, overweight (6'2", 115kg).

For a few years I've felt tired all the time, almost zero libido, irritable etc. I've suspected low test for a while but only got tested a week ago.
Got my results back from the lab and not sure how to interpret them.

-From what I understand test can be measured as "free" or "total". My result doesn't say which, am I right in assuming it would be total?
-My doctor says it's normal, and couldn't be the cause of low libido. The reference range is 9-38 nmol/L and mine is 10.5 nmol/L. Seems low to me, is he BS'ing me?
-I'm sure being fat isn't helping, but I just feel too exhausted to work out most of the time (I work long hours too). Would I be right in thinking it would be better to get TRT and bump my test up to have more energy to work out, than to try to struggle through workouts in the hope of getting into better shape naturally first?
-Is there anyone in New Zealand who can advise a good place to get prescribed TRT?
-If I did start on test, are the creams effective, or should I insist on injections?

I know these are very basic questions, but the information online is very conflicting or vague in a lot of cases. What say you, RVF?

Post: #2

Truth?

Do the work and lose the fucking fat. First. There are drugs that can help with fat loss, but test (IMHO) is not one of them. In fact, by increasing your appetite and water retention, it will likely make it harder. I gain an easy 10+ within 5-7 days.

The cream is a plaything and a PITA, but some do like it.

Here are a couple TRT forum's where you can post your blood work and get really helpful input.
excelmale.com - Blood Test Forum
allthingsmale.com/community

TRT is (likely) a commitment for the rest of your life. Do not take that choice lightly. Here are some additional resources.
peaktestosterone.com
allthingsmale.com/publications.html
steroid.com/TRTforum
Youtube.com - Ask the Doc - Very knowledgeable wrt performance enhancement, TRT, and anti-aging.

Post: #3

(03-23-2017 06:24 AM)Ambicatus Wrote:  -I'm sure being fat isn't helping, but I just feel too exhausted to work out most of the time (I work long hours too). Would I be right in thinking it would be better to get TRT and bump my test up to have more energy to work out, than to try to struggle through workouts in the hope of getting into better shape naturally first?

Sounds like you're making excuses.

Before going on TRT, please share with us your current diet and workout routine; it would also help to give an outline of your typical day including work and leisure activities so we can comment on where you can squeeze workouts in. Let's first fix the basics. Then you can pump yourself with TRT.

Also, being recently married, when do you plan to have kids? TRT can sometimes shut down your sperm production and it can take months to years to properly kick back in again.

Post: #4

You are over estimating the ability of test to give you more energy.

It's not magic.

What is your current diet and sleep like? Water intake? Alcohol?

There's a lot to look at before you decide that a life decision is your best bet just to feel more energetic.

Post: #5

I was in a similar situation as you in my early '40s. I got fat after having being injured in a accident seriously reduced my activity level. I was also drinking too much. My libido and overall energy levels cratered. I had the symptoms of low T / elevated estrogen levels. I got myself in what I refer to as the 'estrogen trap': Hard to lose weight and exercise because your T levels are low, but you can't raise your T levels unless you exercise.

I fixed the situation doing the following in addition to the weight training and cardio:

Diet change
Supplements


Diet:
Went on a ketogenic diet (see the keto diet thread for more details). It took 6 weeks to get adapted to the diet (which was uncomfortable). Once adapted, I have dropped about 30 lbs of fat since June and the workouts go easier. I got 17 to 20 more lbs to go to hit my fat % target. The weight loss was the biggest factor in improving my moods and energy levels. I drink less also, but the keto diet had a much bigger effect than reducing the booze.

Supplements:
When we get older, we sometimes don't get everything we need for food. Get your vitamin D levels checked. Low D levels are very common today. Low D levels cause all sorts of issues with energy levels. These are the important ones I take, which are in addition to a good men's multivitamin:

Pantethine which is a form of B-5 (450 mg x2 per day) - Originally took this because my cholesterol levels were bad. It reduced my LDL (before weight loss) but also had dramatic positive effects on my workouts. Turns out it improves renal function in some people as well.

Magnesium (magnesium malate) and Zinc (with copper) - recommended by my doctor to increase sperm count (wife & I were trying for a kid).

Vitamin C - 1000 mg - Also recommended by the doc for anti-oxidant properties.

Vitamin D - 5000 IU

D-Aspartic Acid - This is to help raise T levels. I only found 2 studies on its effects. One showed positive effects in old fart couch potatoes. Another showed no effects with young healthy guys. I found it to be positive for me since at the time I was more of the former than the latter.

Pregnenolone - I take no more than 20 mg per day. This acts as a building block for testosterone.

Progesterone cream - In small doses when used by men, it acts as an estrogen blocker. it had a positive effect within one day of using it.


Since doing the above (with weight training) my T levels tests were good. Sperm count (I was at the low end of the normal range) increased 250% with corresponding increases in quality (got more good swimmers). I took this as evidence that my body was working better and it was not just all in my head. In my weighting training, I have doubled the amount I can lift in some exercises (investing in a squat rack soon).

Post: #6

(03-23-2017 06:24 AM)Ambicatus Wrote:  Background: I'm 35, recently married, overweight (6'2", 115kg).


Got my results back from the lab and not sure how to interpret them.

-From what I understand test can be measured as "free" or "total". My result doesn't say which, am I right in assuming it would be total?

T level tests are all over the place. There is not real standard and a lot of debate as to what levels free and total T levels are considered "normal". Generally though, the "Free" (unbound / partially bound) is the important number. The testing lab should have documentation showing, according to their test, where 'normal' is based on your age.

Post: #7

I actually tested over the normal threshold a couple weeks ago and my doctor is sending me back for a follow up blood test.

Post: #8

Thanks for the honest feedback guys. I knew I could rely on RVF not to sugarcoat things.

I'm not going to lie, at first I was thinking like a petulant child "Why won't these arseholes just tell me to go get TRT? Can't they see how low my test is? MikeCF's article says I need it!".

After considering it, yes I am aware that more test isn't a magic bullet and that I will have to work like mad to achieve the body I want.

The libido thing was my (my wife's) main concern.

I basically would be perfectly happy to only bang twice a year. I just don't care about it like I used to when I was younger. Which seems crazy, but that's how it is at the moment. I never wake up with an erection any more either, although I'm perfectly capable of getting one.

Anyway, I confess I rarely go to the gym, when I do I usually just do 20 minutes either on the treadmill or crosstrainer, then 40 minutes using the bicep curl, fly and abdominal crunch machines. They do have free weights, but I wouldn't even know where to begin there.

Diet isn't great could be a lot worse. I get up about 6:30ish, skip breakfast and am at work by 7:30 until usually 5-5:30 with half an hour for lunch. Saturdays it's 9-12. I eat mostly at morning break, usually leftovers from dinner or a piece of pizza or something similar from the market across the road + at least an apple and a banana. I just have espresso coffee for lunch to save time, and another couple of apples or bananas. If I have an afternoon break (rarely) I'll have a snack then too. Or a Red Bull. Lately it's been 2 Red Bulls a day - I get terrible sugar cravings, although I quit all sugar for a year before falling off the wagon again.

Dinner could be anything (wife usually cooks), usually it's delicious but full of carbs. When I cook it's usually a curry with chicken, brown rice and vegetables.

I rarely drink (maybe a few drinks once or twice a month), don't smoke, no drugs either.

I also do a shot of Bragg's ACV every night. I definitely feel worse if I don't.

I'm usually asleep by 11:30-12am, I'd like more sleep ideally, but I feel like I have so much to do after work that it rarely happens.

I'm actually going back to the gym today, so any suggestions or constructive criticism will be noted and acted upon. I'm really over feeling like crap every day.

Post: #9

Here's my own experience with testosterone I posted in another thread. And I agree with the others, if you're not fit and working out, then that's your best bet to try first. Being overweight raises your blood pressure considerably and high BP fucks with all sorts of shit in a man, especially libido.

/thread-28966...pid1515960

I was reasonably in shape when I tried this product, and I felt so goddamn amazing. I love the stuff.

Post: #10

(03-24-2017 08:36 PM)Ambicatus Wrote:  I'm actually going back to the gym today, so any suggestions or constructive criticism will be noted and acted upon. I'm really over feeling like crap every day.

Good. Read this to save yourself some time setting up your lifts/diet - fuckarounditis.

Post: #11

Edited: double post

Post: #12

Your diet is way too high in carbohydrates, both liquid and solids.

Perhaps you and your wife need to sit down and have a talk about what food she will make.

She is the one who raised the concern about your low libido, so perhaps explain to her than in order to raise your libido you are going to need to lose weight, and to do that you will need to go on a low-carb diet. You can then plan together what kind of meals she will make for you.

I don't think there is any point going to the gym if your diet sucks as it does now. It is impossible to out-exercise a bad diet. But for what it's worth: a good beginner's weightlifting program is stronglifts 5x5, the guy who invented it also made a lot of tutorial videos and there is even a stronglifts app that tells you how much weight to load on and when. If you know nothing about weightlifting, it might be a good place to start. But like I said, fixing your liquid diet and solid diet habits should be a priority.