Post: #1

Wasn't sure if this should go in 'Everything Else' or here, but I think it belongs a bit more to the 'Politics' subforum.
Mods, feel free to move it if you think it doesn't fit here.

Anyway, I just wanted to get forum members' thoughts on this.
While I agree with most of the political views I read here on RVF, I'm aware that we are almost all pulling in the same direction on the forum.
Also, most of the articles, tweets, etc we refer to, in relation to political issues, are on the Right.
Now, often it's only publications on the Right that will actually report honestly on migrant crimes, but the downside of this is the tendency to lapse into groupthink and confirmation bias.
Thoughts on this?
I have more to add, but am pretty busy just now, so will add to the thread later in the day.

Post: #2

As Scott Adams says, there isn't too much you can do about it. Even he acknowledged himself is susceptible to it. We see the world through our own filter just like every one else. All you can do is try to see your blind spot by questioning yourself.

I placed a big bet on Trump winning the election and everyday I would question myself. I was so sure based on the evidence he was going to win but I also felt this was my own confirmation bias. I tried looking at it from the perpective of leftists but didn't find it convincing. I honestly thought my mind was playing tricks on me until I saw the results and felt vindicated.

Post: #3

I can't speak about the political aspect because of my years pledge, other than to say "probably because that's Roosh's politics and its his forum", but on the "group think and confirmation bias", yeah its a community. Communities are always going to share certain preferred ways of viewing things because of the commonality that creates community in the first place.

That's not to say you can't call people out for being wrong despite being in the minority, as long as you avoid attacking the person and bring objective facts. Its a difficult question of balance really. Community requires commonality, but quality debate requires diversity.

Indeed you'll see that the most vigorous debates here happen across the diversity that does exist. "Race threads" are an obvious example: you won't see battle of the sexes threads because there are no women here. You won't see any pro gay adoption arguments because there are no gays. But you'll see plenty of conservative-versus-libertarian stuff, plenty of capitalism-versus-nationalism stuff, because within the limits of the community those particular diversities exist.

Basically, you can always go to 4chan or other such "anything goes" places.

Post: #4

^^ interesting example with Trump.
I didn't have the stones to go all in with the big man, like you I felt my own confirmation bias was overriding reality, but turns out it was the opposite -> the confirmation bias of the media overrode what my senses and intuition were telling me re Trump.

While I get that Islam is a clear and present danger to the West, particularly in recent years, we do have a tendency on the forum to focus almost exclusively on Islam as being the big threat facing the West, and this is only being reinforced by many of us other forum members agreeing and posting more comments and articles of our own, backing up this point.
I do agree that increasing Islamisation is a major threat to Western society, however equally if not more nefarious are the people pushing the agenda, predominantly the Zionist influencers in the top echelons of banking, big media, corporatations and politics.
They are creating the narrative which allows the migrants to pour into the West.
And The Africans coming in en masse into the West via the Med are of every breed and creed.
Plenty of them are Christians, others with more tribal beliefs, and probably some that are more secular.
Yes the Muslim migrants are the worst type of migrant, however there are tens, perhaps even hundreds of thousands coming from African in particular, who are not Muslim, and they're almost as bad of news for the West as the Muslims.
However I think the confirmation bias we have here on the forum, focuses our attention too much on Islam and not enough on migants in general from Africa and other third world regions, as well as the players and puppetasmters creating the conditions for this mass migration (Soros, Sutherland, et al).

Post: #5

(04-03-2017 08:13 AM)amity Wrote:  However I think the confirmation bias we have here on the forum, focuses our attention too much on Islam and not enough on migants in general from Africa and other third world regions, as well as the players and puppetasmters creating the conditions for this mass migration (Soros, Sutherland, et al).

Yeah, that's the problem with this place. We're far too Soros friendly. I think the mods really need to close down that 1000 page "George Soros: The Greatest Human Being Ever?" thread, even if it does have 2 million views. It's just embarrassing at this point.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, if you think more attention needs to be paid to these topics, why not start some threads about them, or update the threads that are already there? If the information you have is valuable and interesting, you might be able to change the direction of the discourse.

Post: #6

(04-03-2017 08:49 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 08:13 AM)amity Wrote:  However I think the confirmation bias we have here on the forum, focuses our attention too much on Islam and not enough on migants in general from Africa and other third world regions, as well as the players and puppetasmters creating the conditions for this mass migration (Soros, Sutherland, et al).

Yeah, that's the problem with this place. We're far too Soros friendly. I think the mods really need to close down that 1000 page "George Soros: The Greatest Human Being Ever?" thread, even if it does have 2 million views. It's just embarrassing at this point.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, if you think more attention needs to be paid to these topics, why not start some threads about them, or update the threads that are already there? If the information you have is valuable and interesting, you might be able to change the direction of the discourse.

I'm a regular commenter in the 'Migrant invasion of Europe' thread and I've mentioned cognitive biases on several occasions and the need for us, as intelligent red pill men, to not fall foul of the biases that we are quick to point out in others.
I'm pretty much the only Irish guy commenting regularly in that thread, and so can offer perspectives and news from this corner of Europe on how the migrant situation is affecting us (and the UK to an extent) and how the media is reporting it over here.
Sure, Soros gets called out regularly on here, I'm not denying that.
I see the confirmation bias and groupthink in the media in Irl/UK and it's off the scale, and most people just go along with this narrative, they don't question it, they don't rise above it.
The point I'm making though is that there's a tendency on the forum to sometimes get so focussed on Islam as being the big baddie, that we forget to look at the other factors involved in the Multiculuralism madness that has gripped the West in recent decades.
We are in a sense, putting Islam on the pedastal.
I like Tommy Robinson for instance, but it's always Islam Islam Islam.
Why is he not mentioning how harmful ALL low IQ African & Middle Eastern immigration is?
Same with PEGIDA, the tunnelvision on Islam gets the headlines, but it doesn't really help with stopping and reversing the clusterfuck that is non-stop mass immigration into the West of economic migrants and their extended families.
If we neglect all the other symptoms and causes in this mess, then we cannot call ourselves red pill.

Post: #7

Its hard not to be biased when you're being fed a shit sandwich and see yourself or others punished for it.

There are so many different things going on right now that it can turn your logic upside down, so you just eject or take a side and usually you side with those who think like you.

Is Trump going to be an emperor to lead the masculine men of the West to freedom? Nope. Not a chance in hell because that boat has sailed and the future will not be changed.

Will brexit make Britain stronger? In some parts yes but the people in charge are inept and the divisions deep and long lasting. But it should help us in the coming years where we see the EU go completely insane.

We can have discussion here about things we don't agree on? Gavine Mcinnes or whatever hsi name is stuck a butt plug up his arse to prove a point. I don't watch his videos but thats questionable behaviour. Milo is an attention whoring faggot who loves big black dick and screams about it like a typical cuck.

How is that masculine again? He is only sueful as a shield but remember the ultimate victim group has no need for queers. Dozens of them were murdered in a nightclub in 2016 and nobody on the left really cared or wanted to label the perp as a Muslim.

Paul Joseph Watson: Associated with Info Wars and by extension that nut Alex Jones. His style can rub off on you wrong if you dislike being talked at rather than encouraged to listen. Has a lot of good stuff but again its just an echo chamber.

Nigel Farrage: his party is dead.

Russia: Corrupt but has its balls intact but at a cost. Has a lot of angry Islamists in its borders and that monster Chechnya is just a few screws from going full blown Jihad. Putin has his government full of killers and criminals who kill people who disagree with them.

United States: Not perfect, has high crime and a lot of dumb fucks and it has allowed the corridors of power to move things in a bad direction.

Post: #8

(04-03-2017 08:13 AM)amity Wrote:  Yes the Muslim migrants are the worst type of migrant, however there are tens, perhaps even hundreds of thousands coming from Africa in particular, who are not Muslim, and they're almost as bad of news for the West as the Muslims.
However I think the confirmation bias we have here on the forum, focuses our attention too much on Islam and not enough on migrants in general from Africa and other third world regions, as well as the players and puppetasmters creating the conditions for this mass migration (Soros, Sutherland, et al).

hundreds of thousands coming from Africa: fixed for you, 20 millions coming from Africa

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...urope.html

^ this article should be read by every European, each day, until we force our governments to blockade the African continent on its Mediterranean side.

quote: TWENTY MILLION African migrants heading for Europe: European parliament president warns that a huge number will arrive in the 'next few years' unless action is taken



And you are damn right that Western Europe will probably fall to Sub-Saharans before it falls to Islam. Sheer numbers here...

500 millions of young, unemployed, determined (and animist) Africans, can fuck at the same time 20 millions of assorted Islamists and 200 millions of pussy Westerners.

Post: #9

'Cognitive Dissonance' won't mean shit when wars break out across the West and we either fight, flee or burn.

Post: #10

(04-03-2017 09:14 AM)amity Wrote:  The point I'm making though is that there's a tendency on the forum to sometimes get so focussed on Islam as being the big baddie, that we forget to look at the other factors involved in the Multiculuralism madness that has gripped the West in recent decades.
We are in a sense, putting Islam on the pedastal.
I like Tommy Robinson for instance, but it's always Islam Islam Islam.
Why is he not mentioning how harmful ALL low IQ African & Middle Eastern immigration is?
Same with PEGIDA, the tunnelvision on Islam gets the headlines, but it doesn't really help with stopping and reversing the clusterfuck that is non-stop mass immigration into the West of economic migrants and their extended families.
If we neglect all the other symptoms and causes in this mess, then we cannot call ourselves red pill.

There is always a prevalent group think and group consciousness, but it is not as unified as you may think. Also the dynamic shifts. We are united on major issues of Red Pill, Game, anti-feminism, sex, banging hot girls. As for politics - yes we are more for nationalism and the forum is becoming aware of globalist threats, foreign influence groups as well as migration issues. But many men here have different views on a variety of topics - we just miss some of them, because we are united on those things that matter.

As for Tommy Robinson - he picked Islam as the big enemy because it is Islam that has a mindset that wants to rule and dominate, that views infidel women worthy only of rape, it is Islam that will cause the most problems.

Christian or Atheist African immigrants will cause their own problems, but they are manageable, the smart ones will integrate and the poor ones will remain poor. Europe won't become African no matter what in the next centuries, so this is not an existential danger.

Islam however is different - when there are 100-150 mio. Muslims in Europe, then it will be bad, truly bad. 100 mio. Christian Africans will not cause nearly as many problems since they lack a dominating negative ideology. I don't see them pimping out 12yo girls in Rotherham, decapitating priests and bombing metro stations - that is unless they convert to Islam.

I personally try to be as little influenced as possible by other men - even if I share 90% of opinions of life with them. Generally I would recommend everyone to do the same - and also be willing to change opinions and views - if something more logical comes up, then why not? You married to opinions?

Post: #11

I don't disagree Zel, and I consider you one of the most valuable members of the forum, you bring some incredible knowledge and wisdom that few men I know possess.

There's many great men out there, the likes of David Wood for instance, informing us of what we're up against with Islam and it's increasing influence and presence in the West and the almost entirely negative implications of that reality.
I acknowledge completely that Islam is the numero uno most dangerous ideology that the West has to contend with and I see why Robert Spencer, Alex Jones, Rebel Media and often Stefan Molyneux and Sargon too focus on Islam.
I see overall mass migration from third world low IQ culturally dissimilar countries as the real threat, rather than just Islam.

It's a kind of 'forest for the trees' situation.
Islam's increasing infiltration of the West is a symptom, the causes of this are predominantly Globalism, Zionism, Cultural Marxism, Feminism, Socialism and Western military intervention in Africa and the Middle East.
And yes I know Muslims are commanded to travel, breed and take over the host societies by stealth, and this is one particularly devious aspect of Islam, that's not present in other religions/belief systems, however I don't believe this practice was greatly followed by Muslim folks up until recent times.
The likes of Wahhabi and Salafist Islamic sects powered by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and their propaganda channels have ramped up these narratives.

Having said that, I still contend that the focus should be more on the causes and doing what we can to highlight, expose and roll back these destructive ideologies mentioned previously (Globalism, etc) rather than focusing primarily on the symptoms, of which admittedly mass incursions of regressive Muslims into the West, is the most ruinous.

Post: #12

It is difficult to say this forum is controlled by group think when, in fact, this forum is open to all men who wish to join, respective of their background. We did not go about recruiting anyone, and we did not all receive a brainwashing education to indoctrinate us.

Yet, despite the enormous differences of backgrounds of the men here (true diversity), despite any authoritarian controls, we all share similar opinions on the big issues. This is the complete opposite of groupthink, as far as I can tell. We are free men who all arrive at the same conclusions independently of one another. It is the same process of the scientific method.

Conversely, with the left, we see the total opposite. Indoctrination since birth, all with similar backgrounds of middle to upper-middle class Whites or people who just want free shit (mostly non-Whites). Within the indoctrination centers of the left, it is run by total authoritarianism - any divergence from the prevailing orthodoxy results in ostracization or even criminal penalties.

The fact that this thread even exists and is allowed to exist proves we are not succumbing to groupthink. Where are the leftist forums and centers of power of people questioning their own assumptions? Indeed, even after Trump's upset victory, most leftists have since refused to even consider they were trapped in an echo chamber.

We are the opposite of groupthink in almost every way. The reason is because groupthink is primarily a female phenomena; women need consensus for collective action. Conversely, men do not need to agree, but they do need a hierarchy. For example, this forum has a hierarchy, and people respect the rules and seniority, but that does not mean people agree or willingly accept other people's conclusions. Likewise, in the real world, you can have military commanders or leaders men do not agree with, but still follow out of respect of the tribes hierarchy.

A lot of people confuse hierarchy with consensus. They see a forum like this with a high-repped member forming an opinion that others readily follow, and think there is some kind of top-down control of the members thoughts. In reality it's the total opposite, and the reason some men have higher reps than others is for their accomplishments and thoughts - not because there is any specific effort to enforce conformity.

Hierarchies are natural and are the basis of all good societies, while consensuses are artificial and are almost always enforced by high status people who want to preserve an existing hierarchy (with their positions at the top). Any student of history will see this pattern again and again. The decline of civilizations occur when hierarchies are not allowed to naturally change and powerful people bend rules and men's wills to retain power.

Post: #13

(04-03-2017 08:13 AM)amity Wrote:  However I think the confirmation bias we have here on the forum, focuses our attention too much on Islam and not enough on migants in general from Africa and other third world regions, as well as the players and puppetasmters creating the conditions for this mass migration (Soros, Sutherland, et al).

Islamic migrants being the only group whose orthodoxy mandates "convert or kill" versus assimilation warrants more focus and scrutiny

Post: #14

(04-03-2017 05:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Hierarchies are natural and are the basis of all good societies, while consensuses are artificial and are almost always enforced by high status people who want to preserve an existing hierarchy (with their positions at the top). Any student of history will see this pattern again and again. The decline of civilizations occur when hierarchies are not allowed to naturally change and powerful people bend rules and men's wills to retain power.

Ay - hierarchies are natural and are in fact the best government method that I can imagine - totalitarian meritocracy (selection of the smartest & most ethical people for rule).

The globalists did not come to their current power-structure just by following a "just happens" motto. They created a power structure and a strict hierarchy that others adhere to even while being psychopaths.

We adhere to hierarchies of sorts out of respect for other men's achievements or contributions.

I still remember how dumbfounded I was when I listened to Occupy Wallstreet "rebel" protesters repeating sentences of other so-called leaders. They were literally enforcing opinions by making it look edgy.

Heck - I would not even do this with my best friend. We are all different, we just choose to be united, learn from each other & work together on certain things.

Post: #15

I find this forum to be very group based in its way of thinking.
90%+ on this site seems to be very pro-trump.
And that´s okay, but the users should at least acknowledge thats the situation.

Post: #16

(04-04-2017 05:30 PM)pants Wrote:  I find this forum to be very group based in its way of thinking.
90%+ on this site seems to be very pro-trump.
And that´s okay, but the users should at least acknowledge thats the situation.

Have you seen people saying that this site is not pro-Trump?

Post: #17

It should not be called confirmation bias if you're right.

Post: #18

Its very hard to avoid this with the political system we have in the US. Not that I know how to improve it. But at the end of the day you only have two realistic options for president, democrat or republican. So you are forced to go all in for one side, even if your candidate has faults. And with the hundreds and hundreds of issues, there is no way you will agree with your candidate on every single one. But if you agree with the majority of his/her positions that you are read up on, its very easy to accept bias sources that suggest your candidate is right on other issues, even if these articles are unsourced clickbait bullshit.

You can have a more meaningful discussion if you discuss a single issue per thread rather than aggregate in a single candidate thread, but at the end of the day you still have to vote for a single person. Which is why there isnt alot of dissent. . .sure I disagree with Trump on certainn things but if I like him better than the opposition what does it matter? He gets my full vote or no vote. Maybe someone smarter than me can come up with a new system.

Post: #19

Groupthink does exist here in some ways, but I don't think you're forced to participate.

I know there are certain threads where my posting style and lack of knowledge would mean I'm more likely to court a ban.

I stay out of such threads.

It's not that I can't control myself and act normally in those threads, but why bother? Trying to talk about things that I'm not well-informed on is dangerous.

I just don't comment, but i'll occasionally read and like select posts where forum members with more writing talent than myself say what I want to say without getting banned.

Post: #20

I would like OP to point out just three instances where someone has provided evidence of something which was provably true and who was consequently shouted down by the majority of the forum because it didn't comply with the RVF narrative, whatever that is.

The only example I can think of myself is that some people are coming down from the high of the election sooner than others and starting to question President Trump before others think that caution is undue, but that's it.

Despite our typical indoctrination during childhood that diversity is our strength, it simply isn't the case. Certainly not diversity of thought. The strongest social circle is one that has a cohesive and established orthodoxy and who only allows that orthodoxy to be challenged with the presentation of solid evidence.

If we were a bunch of grabasses constantly heckling each other with trivial disagreements then the forum would not only be an aggravation to participate in but it would signal to newcomers (often young men in search of guidance) that we didn't really have the slightest damn clue about the world and that we were little more than a bunch of stray cats that happened to turn up at the same alley.

No offence, but at a certain stage in life you need to accept that unity of principle and submission to qualified leadership is a strength, not a weakness.

Post: #21

(04-04-2017 05:30 PM)pants Wrote:  I find this forum to be very group based in its way of thinking.
90%+ on this site seems to be very pro-trump.
And that´s okay, but the users should at least acknowledge thats the situation.

This is like saying 90%+ of the men here believe fat girls are gross, therefore we suffer from groupthink.

Post: #22

(04-04-2017 10:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 05:30 PM)pants Wrote:  I find this forum to be very group based in its way of thinking.
90%+ on this site seems to be very pro-trump.
And that´s okay, but the users should at least acknowledge thats the situation.

This is like saying 90%+ of the men here believe fat girls are gross, therefore we suffer from groupthink.

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