Post: #1

(In case you were wondering: IoT = Internet of Things).

Basically, a ham radio hobbyist downloaded some cloud-based software for his garage door opener (Yes, I know. Why the fuck would you connect something that opens your garage to the Internet?) and when the shit didn't work properly, he went and posted a negative review of it. When he did, he then downloaded an update to the licence -- very important to note here -- which then, he says, bricked his device.

The full story is here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/201612...view.shtml

The salient parts of the story...

Quote:Nothing out of the ordinary here. A dissatisfied customer airs his grievances about a purchased product. The user also opened a support ticket with HRD Software hoping it could solve his problems.

HRD Software replied to the ticket, telling the user to download a patch for the malfunctioning software.

The version of HRD you indicated IS NOT the latest release... Current Version: V 6.3.0.610 In order to provide proper support for your issue and to insure we are all on the same version, please download and install the current version of Ham Radio Deluxe. It can be downloaded by clicking on or copying and pasting http://www.hrdsoftwarellc.com/downloads.html into your favorite browser, to take you to the HRD Software Download page on our website. You could also click on the Current Version link in the "HRD Help Links" to begin an immediate download. Once you have downloaded and installed the current release of HRD, please test it thoroughly to see if the issue you have been having has been resolved.

Seems normal enough. But more problems developed.

I've tried to install the update according to your directions. Now when I click on the HRD icon, I get the splash screen from version 6.3.0.610 for about a second, and then it disappears and nothing else happens. Was I supposed to uninstall the old version first? I downloaded the setup.exe file you highlited above. I am now completely dead because of a minor problem. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. Please advise what steps to take from here. This is a new computer and v610 was a fresh install. Thank you

The company's response? We've intentionally bricked your software because of your negative review at eHam.

We would also like to request that you NOT RENEW your support nor use our software due to the review you placed on eHam back in September. Remember that? http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/143372

The "customer support" at HRD Software then pointed the user to its terms of service, stating that it had the right to do what it had just done. HRD Software reserves the "right" to "disable a customer's key at any time for any reason."

That term is in there; I've gone to look. I haven't gone to check Microsoft Word et. al. but I would guess that same term exists in their ToSes as well. The story goes on:

Quote:Then it told him the blacklisting would be revoked if he removed his negative review. Bonus: mention of a capital-A "Attorney" for added seriousness, I guess.

If you remove the eHam review, which was blatantly false, we will remove the blacklist from you call. You are not buying software, you are buying your callsign's access to the software. the so called bug you reported is not one in HRD, but one in the CAT commands of the FT­3000 radio, which have been verified with yaesu. Again refer to section 8 of the TOS, which was written by our Attorney.

Bear in mind this was not a fucking call centre operator who was advising him it had been bricked, it was the co-owner of the fucking company. This set off a long firestorm in QRZ, which apparently is a internet ham radio forum (weird shit, but hey) and eventually the other co-owner stepped in to try and do some damage control. That co-owner also tried to put a different spin on the story:

Quote:So... this still seems almost as bad, but the "more sympathetic" version is that the company didn't intentionally brick the software, it just (intentionally) added the customer to a blacklist based on his bad review (and then later lifted that blacklist). The bricking part was a sort of incidental side effect of HRD incorrectly telling someone to download upgraded software that he wasn't entitled to. So... still bad, but maybe marginally less bad than before.

The problem being that this is apparently not a one-off experience with the company: others have been blacklisted as well, and it apparently happens with other companies too.

Supposedly there's a bill sitting on Trump's desk to try and stop some of this bullshit, but where there's a law, a way will be found around it. And lawyers brought in to challenge big companies like Microsoft doesn't really help if, say, Tesla decides it doesn't like you posting that you found from independent woodshed testing that the car's fuel efficiency is nowhere near what the company says it is ... and the car mysteriously runs off a cliff a day after you post it.

This sort of shit is a canary in a coalmine. You don't get software anymore, you get a licence. Corporations have for a while been prosecuting people for lese majeste. And as people are idiots enough to actually think the Internet of Things is a fucking good thing, well, as JOSHUA intuited in War Games, the only way to win is not to play.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #2

So, this sort of behavior will obviously not apply to self-driving cars and implanted chips, right?

From the link:

from the new-levels-of-fuckery dept

Lolz

Post: #3

The ultimate solution here is to call the credit card company and initiate a chargeback.

I don't doubt for a second they would be willing to reverse the charges.

Edit: Positive news in this particular case:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/03...nt_change/

Quote:Ruh-roh! Rick Ruhl rolled out of Ham Radio Deluxe in software kill-switch aftermath
Cofounder ejects over blacklist for bad reviews
The developer of Ham Radio Deluxe – a popular app used by thousands of hams – has restructured its management following claims it punished users who wrote critical reviews.

HRD Software said in a statement on Friday that co-founder Rick Ruhl will step down to pursue other interests. Ruhl, along with co-owners Mike Carper and Randy Gawtry, ran the radio software company after buying the rights to the code in 2011.

Post: #4

"Again refer to section 8 of the TOS, which was written by our Attorney."

Post: #5

Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

Post: #6

(04-04-2017 09:17 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #7

(04-04-2017 09:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:17 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

COuld you not do the same thing with an RFID tag? Or better yet a small IR transciever like a tv remote control?

Post: #8

(04-04-2017 09:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  ...
My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener which is monitored by a serf in India who pushes the enter button when massah's car nears massah's abode. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

Post: #9

(04-04-2017 09:38 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:17 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

COuld you not do the same thing with an RFID tag? Or better yet a small IR transciever like a tv remote control?

...or you could just take three minutes to marry your garage/gate opener to the Homelink already present in any automobile worth owning.

Post: #10

(04-04-2017 09:38 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:17 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

COuld you not do the same thing with an RFID tag? Or better yet a small IR transciever like a tv remote control?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #11

(04-04-2017 10:20 PM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:38 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 09:17 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Disregarding the stuff we talk about here (it's gonna be a race between burgler-hackers and cia-assassin-hackers to crack this thing) I'll take the classic push-a-button garage door opener.

To reiterate Paracelsus, why does the garage door opener need to be connected to the internet?

My guess would be the clown has a GPS tracker or phone in his car that's connected to the Internet which is meant to ping back to the door opener. That way as the car approaches the house the door opens automatically so he doesn't have to spend one piddling picojoule of energy pressing the fucking button on his garage remote.

COuld you not do the same thing with an RFID tag? Or better yet a small IR transciever like a tv remote control?

...or you could just take three minutes to marry your garage/gate opener to the Homelink already present in any automobile worth owning.

God Forbid we don't german up the whole thing and make it simple.

Speaking of compromises .....................

https://www.pwnieexpress.com/blog/sex-to...-challenge

Quote:In the case of the Standard Innovation sex toy, an insecure Bluetooth connection allowed anyone within range to seize control of the device.

Post: #12

Connecting the garage door to the Internet allows checking if you forgot to close it after you've driven off. If you have forgotten to close it, you can close it remotely.

Post: #13

Instead of having it close automatically on a timer, cancelled on a timer if a movement sensor attached to a garage light inside is triggered...

Post: #14

Not really uncommon, founder is protective of his product, some idiot posts a wrongful review and said founder goes ham on customer. There's a reason you hire customer service reps

Post: #15

Keeping up with the Joneses has never been more rediculous. Its hard for me to sympathise with this dickhead.

Post: #16

I think the thing that prepares everything for your departure and arrival at your home is called a "wife".

Post: #17

(04-05-2017 02:15 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  I think the thing that prepares everything for your departure and arrival at your home is called a "wife".

Given he's a Ham Radio hobbyist I'd say the odds of him having a wife are pretty low at best.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #18

Also this sperg like behaviour is disgustingly common among the tech community. You all may think this behaviour was a terrible affront to a consumer's rights, but to the triggered tech nerd on the other end is was merely an extended declaration of "I am right". He interfaces with machines, and "better than you!" he will add, and interfacing with humans in a socially acceptable and constructive manner is a trite afterthought.

I remember being on a project once where the project was running behind schedule, mostly due to one of the team members posturing about how good his part of the project was going to be. So he consumed 80% of the project time just doing his part. Of course, we told him "your part is upstream of our part, and we can't do our work until you're done"; but I think that aroused him a little: now it was guaranteed he would be the smartest and most right, because by eating up the whole project time while we waited, the cunt could say "look, I did my part fantastically, and they failed completely!".

So I simply went ahead and made a crude functional replica of his part of the project, in a few days, and used that on the rig to test my part of the project. I then told the team I had done this, and "please don't remove it while I'm testing my part". They all agreed, including the cunt. Sure enough, that spurred the fucker to action. He'd taken it off and replaced it with his half-functioning part, within a day of getting that request and agreeing to it. He then had to debug it for a week because it was a piece of shit, again barring me from finishing my work. But all of this was of course reasonable behaviour because he got the best marks at Uni and he was the most clever clever boy, so I assume his daddy said. Needless to say the project was fucked.

This is why, contrary to the "they don't do anything" grumbles of spergy tech types, you need ass-kicking bastard managers, just to keep the boot firmly on these fuckers necks and stop them sperging out.

Post: #19

HRD is fucked as a company now. As the QRZ thread shows, the ham community is very small online and word gets around.

Post: #20

Who would ever have thought that connecting everything you own to the internet would have any downsides?

Post: #21

(04-05-2017 02:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Also this sperg like behaviour is disgustingly common among the tech community. You all may think this behaviour was a terrible affront to a consumer's rights, but to the triggered tech nerd on the other end is was merely an extended declaration of "I am right". He interfaces with machines, and "better than you!" he will add, and interfacing with humans in a socially acceptable and constructive manner is a trite afterthought.

Yep.

I have a pretty intense nav/fish finder/autopilot system on my boat. I can hunt submarines with it. There's a lot of people with similar stuff, and Raytheon techs that come out and service stuff.

When I first got it, they would send this sniveling little condescending faggot out to get it working. Keep in mind, NSA Hawaii is right up the road, and if this guy was really worth a shit he'd be working there.

He would say things like "who does this" when we're dealing with HD digital radar. The thing would try to update itself, and I didn't want more updates, and it was just mindbogglingly to this guy why I didn't want them. He couldn't move past that "I'm just trying to figure out why you don't want it" point he had to make. Finally I was just like "motherfucker, I'm the customer" and was about to drown his ass.

Instead, I called the manager, who like you say was a real hard ass and the lgbt tech got fired. I wasn't the only one complaining.

A few weeks later, all my shit bricked. Raytheon replaced everything totally free, and really quickly. I suspect that dude did something to it, but we didn't talk about it, and the stuff they replaced is more expensive than what I had.

Don't piss off the techies, or just don't deal with them until you find one you like.

Aloha!

Post: #22

(04-05-2017 10:23 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  Who would ever have thought that connecting everything you own to the internet would have any downsides?

In a world of /Pol, the chans and the bored lives of many interne tusers you'd think the legions of connectred devices being used as trolling mechanisms would wake people up.

I remmeber going on a website dedicated to showing unprotected CCTV, both private and public domains. The chans would fuck around with people in real time.

Post: #23

(04-05-2017 02:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Also this sperg like behaviour is disgustingly common among the tech community. You all may think this behaviour was a terrible affront to a consumer's rights, but to the triggered tech nerd on the other end is was merely an extended declaration of "I am right". He interfaces with machines, and "better than you!" he will add, and interfacing with humans in a socially acceptable and constructive manner is a trite afterthought.

I remember being on a project once where the project was running behind schedule, mostly due to one of the team members posturing about how good his part of the project was going to be. So he consumed 80% of the project time just doing his part. Of course, we told him "your part is upstream of our part, and we can't do our work until you're done"; but I think that aroused him a little: now it was guaranteed he would be the smartest and most right, because by eating up the whole project time while we waited, the cunt could say "look, I did my part fantastically, and they failed completely!".

So I simply went ahead and made a crude functional replica of his part of the project, in a few days, and used that on the rig to test my part of the project. I then told the team I had done this, and "please don't remove it while I'm testing my part". They all agreed, including the cunt. Sure enough, that spurred the fucker to action. He'd taken it off and replaced it with his half-functioning part, within a day of getting that request and agreeing to it. He then had to debug it for a week because it was a piece of shit, again barring me from finishing my work. But all of this was of course reasonable behaviour because he got the best marks at Uni and he was the most clever clever boy, so I assume his daddy said. Needless to say the project was fucked.

This is why, contrary to the "they don't do anything" grumbles of spergy tech types, you need ass-kicking bastard managers, just to keep the boot firmly on these fuckers necks and stop them sperging out.

It's like you're describing every team project I've gotten stuck on in grad school.

Post: #24

Little surprise that this thread is converging on the Gamma Megathread.

Post: #25

(04-05-2017 07:43 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Little surprise that this thread is converging on the Gamma Megathread.

Well, it had to. Staying too long in the Gamma Megathread is itself gamma.