Post: #1

Hello everybody. I'm from Montreal and discovered this forum in summer 2015 when there was all the fuss about Roosh. I'm reflecting on my current long-term monogamous relationship which is experiencing problems. Reading some posts full of wisdom from certain forum members regarding similar issues, I thought I could benefit from outside opinions on my situation, especially from older men who have lived with a woman in a LTMR for some years, married or not. Sharing and discussing my story could perhaps help other members as well. I'll try to include the most relevant information to the situation.

A few months before I turned 26, I met a gorgeous 20 y.o woman (a 10 in my eyes) at a university party. I really like tall and thin women. Standing at 6'0, with endless legs, a bubble butt, a thin body, perfect skin, blond hair, great lips and green eyes, she was really beautiful. I was just like WOW when I saw her. I approached her and we hit it off. We had a great connection. She was a virgin. I couldn't believe how a such beautiful woman could be a virgin at 20. We now have been dating for about 4 and half years, and living together for nearly 3 years.

The good: Not only was she really attractive, but I was shocked at how smart, classy and knowledgeable she was, especially at her age. She is doing an engineering degree in university with mostly straight As. Yes, a very beatiful woman doing engineering... She had a unusual upbringing and speaks 4 languages fluently. We can talk about anything for hours, from economics to politics, it's just interesting to conversate with her, she is so smart and articulate. She doesn't go out in clubs or bars, she prefers reading a good book at home on Friday night and getting early on Saturday morning to do some sports and yoga at our appartment. She's shy and an introvert. She rarely sees friends, she mostly reads in her free time, studies a lot and likes to cook. She comes from a wealthy family (she grew up in Western Europe and had canadian citizenship along with some family here. she came here to study for college). She has a high net worth thanks to inheritances from distant family members. However, she remains very frugal without being cheap. She rarely uses her smartphone and never posts pictures on Facebook or Instagram, which is very rare among young women. It's amazing how she has a low level of narcissism. She is very loyal, often compliments me and says how lucky she is to be with me. We pay everything 50/50 for the appartment. She doesn't nag and is usually happy with me having the lead. Low maintenance. No tatoos, no drugs, etc. My girlfriend has a good relationship with her parents. Her mother is a surgeon and feminist and father a wealthy and successful banker, although they are divorced.

The bad: If one closely observes my girlfriend and her body language, it's possible to note that she's not only shy, introvert, but probably a not very sexual person. Her being virgin, I didn't really know what to expect in the long-run. My hope was to make her love sex and I wanted to take it slow and gently so not to damage her. I had to train her in some ways. She gave me her virginity after two months of dating. The learning was going to be very tough and the progression up to now proved to be slow, erratic, highly variable and problematic. She really didn't know her own body and still doesn't fully know in somes strange ways. She had significant sexual and body confidence issues, even though she is really beautiful and I was always reassuring her. She kissed, moved and behave awkwardly although there has been modest progress, this was all fluctuating. It was hard for her to get in the mood, even with long and attentive foreplay. She couldn't really get to understand what was really turning her on. We discovered that what was exciting for her was mainly me talking before and during sex. I have to describe lenghty erotic scenarios if I want her to get wet and excited. She doesn't want to participate, I must be the only one talking the whole time. Even if I talk and the sexual intercourse is going well, she looses the mindset and becomes really disconnected during sex about 30-40% of the time and will make me know indirectly or directly enough to spoil lightly or sometimes severely the sexual act. She is very BIG on romance. She is really on the affective/romantic side of the sexual spectrum. She has trouble deriving pleasure from visual and physical sides of sex. The pleasure is much more cerebral, much more than any other woman I've ever encountered. Altough there was some improvement, all the problems listed above are still present to a significant extent. Sexual frustration from her part arose, saying that she very inconsistantly enjoys sex. She has primary anorgasmia. I tried everything, and I failed to give her one. Sometimes, we have really great sex sessions, but that is very, very inconsistant. Those glimpses of great sex kept me aboard for those years and helped me to stay hopeful and optimistic since she was so young and unexperienced. The other major problem is lack of libido. I'd like sex everyday and for her 1 time a week, maybe 2, would be enough. Insidious and indirect denying started to happen when we moved in together and as it was the first time for me in that situation, I didn't know how to deal with that. Sometimes, even by being persistant, kissing, etc, she would not get on board or excited at all. With time, when I would approach her just to give her kisses and hugs, she would become tensed and stressed that I'd want sex and that she couldn't satisfy me. She seldom spontaneously offered blowjobs or handjobs. She built some kind of resentment for me being able to orgasm and enjoying sex so much in contrast to her. Last year, about 2-3 times, when we had an argument, she used sex to threaten me and said that I wasn't going to get laid this weekend (Huge redflag). Slowly, over the last several months, even though she is still so beautiful, I started to develop insidious problems to initiate sex with her since there was all those negative feelings related to sex with her and rejection that piled up. The spontaneity has been lost. I threatened to break up and less than two months ago we saw a sex therapist. The therapist determined during the first meeting that it was my girlfriend who had issues with intimacy and she is now undergoing therapy. My girlfriend started to make more efforts and there were glimpses of positivity (as there are always been) but overall it seems that my inner state on the sexual level towards her is somewhat deeply affected. I now have trouble approaching my own girlfriend and would like to make abstration of the negative toughts but can't. I broke up today with her and there is a state of crisis at our place right now, she says she doesn't want to loose me. I'm crushed. Aside of the sexual issues, she is a beautiful, great woman and we have a great chemistry. I feel a strong bond to her. I thought that I found my unicorn. I feel that I'll have to move on but everything is difficult right now. There are some good women out there, I think.

Comments and advice are welcome.

Post: #2

Sorry I can't read all that, it's too long.

Having been where you're at now (typing out every minutiae detail about a failing relationship), all I can tell you is it's probably going to fail and you can't salvage it. Best to move on.

Post: #3

(05-07-2017 07:26 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  Sorry I can't read all that, it's too long.

Having been where you're at now (typing out every minutiae detail about a failing relationship), all I can tell you is it's probably going to fail and you can't salvage it. Best to move on.

Yeah I just realized it's pretty long. It was a good writing therapy though.

Post: #4

Cheat on her

Post: #5

Although I could never have an LTR with a woman that didn't enjoy a deep dicking, if you want to keep this girl then here's the thing.

You've got to make it clear that her pussy has a job, and that job is to satisfy your dick so that he doesn't fuck around distracting your eyes with other women. You've got to tell her that her enjoyment of the act is secondary to making sure you're not walking around all day with a loaded gun. You tell her that you handle the man stuff and she handles the woman stuff, and handling the woman stuff involves being fucked once or twice a day. It's not like she has to put in a lot of effort.

This is a prime example of a hot woman that's had her mind fucked by feminism. She seems to equate being fucked by her man as some sort shameful act that has to be minimised. Tell her that she's got to drop the shame and that you respect her, but she needs to put out every day at least, and her doing that is not going to go beyond the walls of your house.

Run some gorilla type foreplay. Drop the kissing and all that sissy shit. Bend her over from behind at some random time of the day, press up behind her and just hold her there regardless of resistance. If she complains then ignore her. It's a shit test to see if she's in control of the situation or you are. Do not cease this domination for anything less than her getting absolutely hostile. If she accepts that she's about to get fucked from behind then fuck her. If she gets hostile and you have to break away then dump the bitch.

Sounds harsh but there it is. Don't waste time fucking around with this bitch. Own her or cut her loose.

p.s. On a more detailed read of the OP you've made some serious blue-pilled mistakes in training this girl. Hopefully she's not too far gone for you to remedy this. Most guys have been raised to treat women respectfully at all times and slowly win consent for sex, but this is in contravention with what the vast majority of women actually want, whether they know it or not, whether they admit it or not.

Post: #6

I highly recommend Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life. If you've got the got the cash, I suggest coaching. Athol Kay.com . I used his services in the past and got quite good results.

I don't normally plug Athol so hard here, but you've got a tough situation that actually is quite complex. It is more than what I think this forum can help fix.

You have two problems:

1. You. I see a guy who and needs deep red pill training. This can't be done overnight or through a forum. Dumping her may or may not have been a good move.

2. Her. If she wants you back, tell her she needs to prove it to you. But this path is treacherous and difficult to do right. Which is why I highly highly recommend coaching with Athol. He is an expert.

Post: #7

1 and half year of dating before moving in togheter seems a bit short to me. What do the others think ?

OP I think you are too sweet with your girl because you focus only on all her "qualities" and forget that she doesn't fully satisfy your sexual desires. Which are important for your own health and relationship.

You allowed her to reduice your sexual life, stop to be sweet with that girl OP.

Post: #8

Not sure if troll but I'll bite.

Virgins having inhibitions about sex is not uncommon. A lot of women in general have trouble with the orgasm and need various types of stimulation to make it happen.

What is less common is after a bit of basic "training" and encouragement, the persistent lack of desire and enjoyment of sex on her part.

Because you think she is your unicorn I am guessing that you maybe haven't been as rough and dominant with her as you might some random 5 that you met last call at a bar.

Throw her on the bed, pull her hair, pull her legs right back so her knees are near her shoulders, slap her ass, shove your dick in her mouth and slap her face with it... all consensually of course... read some basic sex tips for dominant sex... she probably doesn't know that she responds to it because you've never given it to her like that.

My number one favorite is to bring her legs together, then push them back so her knees are in her chest, and lick her ass hole. Lick around it, lick the alphabet, be dedicated and thrust your tongue in and out, change from sensual to feral. Most inexperienced girls shortcircuit when you do this because they are not expecting it and feel an intense mixture of shock, shame and pleasure as you do it. Again all consensual of course, if she does not want to do it she will simply move her ass.

Hasn't she ever gotten a bit drunk and initiated sex? I've only lived with GFs twice, but both after a few glasses of wine would lie down in the bed and start moaning. First time it happened, I thought she was sick, so I just kept asking are you OK, do you need some water or something? Because, you know, I'm actually a nice guy. But the moaning continued. I gave up and said well, I don't know what the hell you want so I'm going to bed. I kissed her goodnight and she chewed my face off. She threw off the bed covers, ripped down my pants and boxers at the same time and went absolutely crazy on my dick. Slobbering, spitting, gagging, biting, everything, not with any real excellent technique, just raw hunger for dick. It happened so fast I was shocked. Sober the sex was good but she still had a few inhibitions. A bit of red wine later and she is giving sex with borderline-truly-insane passion.

Maybe try and get her a bit drunk before you do the ass thing, but if she is really into you she should have that passion somewhere inside her. If not, she is either truly frigid/inhibited for some reason in general or your presence doesn't stimulate her on a raw, animal level. The pretext to the above rape of me by her is that I always lead everything, I do what I want even if it ends up wrong, I don't listen to her, I tell her to shut up if she's moaning (but mostly she knows not to moan), I tell her I want her to do certain things and she does them, she tells me things that trouble her and I counsel her and she listens intently and thanks me for my insights, and I set clear boundaries of what is bad behavior and what is acceptable behavior, and there are punishments if she steps out of line. The best male-female relationships have an element of father-child in that you care for her, she feels safe in your presence, she looks up to you and appreciates your care, therefore she submits to you and she is punished for bad behavior. It sounds a lot like some female romance novel but there was no mention of the word "daddy" or anything like that, whatever people like is their business but I find the whole "daddy" fantasy a bit corny and unnecessary really. It's the soft dominance and protection that stimulates the female hindbrain. From your OP it looks like you may have neglected that and "respect" her too much for "her achievements" and "fantastic intellect".

Post: #9

I have been there. Almost exact same story. I never did solve the problem. We broke up after many years.

When I think back I know I should have been more dominant but I was also a virgin and wasn't familiar with all the rockstar sex moves I am now. The problem is it feels weird to suddenly start getting rough because it's totally incongruent if you've been vanilla sexxing her for 4 years already.

The thing about girls like yours is they're quite reserved when it comes to sex. It's your job to dirty them up. I've managed to do this in subsequent relationships by being a caveman from the start and it's like night and day.

Post: #10

At 6'0 she is pretty tall...are you taller than her/bigger than her?

Post: #11

Once had a gf that didn't care too much for sex and nothing could change that. Broke up with her after 3 months. Some girls are just not that into fucking.

Post: #12

It's hard to remember what a torturous situation this is, though I've been there.

In many ways it's much worse than having no woman at all, because a "no-touchy" smoke show strutting around your house while you've got blue balls must be just unbearable.

This is a massive argument for successful women in academia being strictly off limits when gaming, because to my mind they seem to be obsessed with being engaged on an intellectual level rather than a physical one. As if they are a higher being, greater than mere flesh and blood, and the very act of fucking is somehow beneath then (so to speak).

Maybe OP should take her out to a forest and remind her about the birds and the bees.

Post: #13

OP, you opened this thread because you know ou can't take this shit anymore.
She won't change and suddenly LOVE sex.
You could also be bad in bed : you seem to act like a wuss when fucking her, like if she was a fragile glass girl, going to break if you bang her hard.

If I were you, I'd radically change my behaviour in bed and start banging her hard.
If she still doesn't enjoy it, dropp her and find girls who love to get dicked.

Staying with a "10" because your eyes enjoy it, but you dick doesn't, isn't healthy for your mind.

Post: #14

Damn, that wall of text can keep Mexicans out for sure.

Anyway I read it a bit in diagonal but I'll tell you, if you genuinely consider her a 9 and she was really a virgin, you should give it more time.

The part where you failed is "frame control". I think it can be salvaged if you get her to follow the frame. Hint about seeing other girls, and ensure that she knows that you have other options. Next time you fuck her, give ALL you got. Give her an orgasm at all costs.

And remember. A girl who isn't into fucking isn't into fucking WITH YOU.
So it means that if you give her good enough orgasms, she'll be more likely to fuck.

Post: #15

I have a somewhat contrary opinion.

I don't think OP should particularly try to elicit sexual joy from this woman at all. From what little we know, it seems like she's a bit of a princess and trying to impress her is going to be self defeating, particularly since she's prudish. The more you try the less comfortable she'd feel.

I think OP needs to treat her like a fuck toy and emotionally ignore her while they're banging. He can do cuddles afterward but at the moment I would suspect that she's got stage fright as much as anything and she's nervous about ticking certain sexual boxes.

Just bang that bitch and ignore her joy or lack thereof. During the act tell her what to do (don't start with crazy shit like "diddle my anus with your ring finger"). Focus on dominant sex where you hold her in a desired position and just go to work. Tell her afterwards how great it was and how much you love fucking her. Tell her she's a walking, talking work of art and you've never had better. Lies, maybe, but there's a strong possibility that she'll warm to the whole deal when she's not nervous about pleasing you. You're turning up every day (or rather twice a week) and driving your car like it was your license test every time. You've got your license so stop worrying about a missed head check or indicator and just drive that bitch.

Let me repeat this. Her reaching orgasm is not some unwritten law of love. Plenty of girls don't orgasm but still love to fuck because the act itself is a form of emotional validation. They get an energy transfer from it. That's why they're chatty afterwards and you just want to go to sleep.

You've got a 10 in your opinion and she's submissive enough to fuck you twice a week when you slither up to her like a snake. Transition to gorilla, give zero fucks about ticking her sexual boxes and at least you'll get your balls drained. As an added bonus she just might prefer the new you to the old one. Based on female biology and psychology the odds are certainly in favour of that.

Post: #16

Wow, I could have told that story myself, almost word for word.

I've recently come across this site, which has really resonated with me:

http://www.blackdragonblog.com

The blog alone has great stuff, but the books would probably save time. He specifically has one for converting a monogamous relationship into an open one.

A lot of his concepts might be hard to digest initially, but I really thing he has a great understanding about how biology and society work.

Post: #17

Get rid of her. Really, if she doesn't want to please you, she doesn't care about you.
My ex never threatned to starve me of sex, and even when she wasn't in the mood to get fucked, she stil wanted to blow me off. That's true love to me.

Post: #18

I agree with Leonard D Neubache. I read into this that the OP brought this issue upon himself. The first half of his post is all about putting the pussy on the pedestal. I wonder whether this girl is really a 10 in anyone but the OPs perception. Ok, she might be a high functioning Aspie 8 but the pedestization has convinced her she is better than you and deserves better and is with holding sex.

Post: #19

Jeez you've got a rough situation my man. I can relate to that in the sense that my gf isn't a very sexual person, but she is waaaaay more than yours by the sounds of it. How has the past 24 hours been? It sounds like things may have to be broken off, but at least you won't have to worry about her banging dudes on the rebound

Post: #20

(05-07-2017 08:13 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  p.s. On a more detailed read of the OP you've made some serious blue-pilled mistakes in training this girl. Hopefully she's not too far gone for you to remedy this. Most guys have been raised to treat women respectfully at all times and slowly win consent for sex, but this is in contravention with what the vast majority of women actually want, whether they know it or not, whether they admit it or not.

^This is it in a nutshell


You know the difference between a "good girl" and a "slut"? The good girl just wants to be a whore for one man

I think the biggest mistake guys make when ending up in an LTR is to fall into the "I won/I own it, thinking".

If anything "LTR game" is in my opinion the most advanced game. And keeping a virgin long term in the western world requires even another level of "maintenance game": lest she start thinking "what am I missing?"

Think about it. Her wiring hasn't changed just because she's in a relationship. All the same stimuli / response "rules" apply. She's got to have all the same "tingles"

That's Game 101

Comfort + Attraction (in the right combination)= Arousal

Too much comfort = Friend Zone
Too much attraction= Anti Slut Defense

OP From your description at the most basic level : You're providing way too much comfort. Now that your in an established relationshipyou need to dial that comfort back That same comfort you used in the early stages to earn her trust (enough to let you put your meatsicle in her) is now your enemy. That's why arousing her is more difficult

She's telling you she needs more tingles (Hence the dirty talk) She's a good girl that wants you release her inner whore. She's begging you to.



Its a cheesy cliche ...but it's true. We as guys are wired differently than they are.

Us;Tickle our balls a bit and we're ready to go.

Them; you gotta tickle the medulla oblongata first

What to do? Well you have to break her response patterns that you've established

What I'd suggest is a two prong attack:

1. Emotional

You need to employ a bit of Heartistes dread game. Remember that all women are emotional and "dread' aka fear is a potent one (emotion). Your "pedestalization" of her is as LNB points out has shifted the power to her and in so doing doused her attraction for you. You need to get that back

2. Physical

Warning NSFW video in link.

Next time you have her in bed make her squirt. If you've never done this to a girl I highly recommend it. Yes its real and yes if done properly (right state of mind+ right technique) Id say you can get almost any girl to squirt. There are a lot of videos out there but this guy is pretty no nonsense about it and his techniques are pretty consistent to what Ive found

Dont tell her your going to be doing it. Just do it. If she asks "what are you doing?" just say "Shhh just trust me and relax" Once she starts feeling it say it again "just relax...Im going to make you come"

You do this once and she'll never think of sex with you the same way again. She'll say "OMG!!! What did you do to me?" She'll be freaked out a bit but also You'll be Just break it out semi regularly as a special treat.


I think its salvageable but you need to change the dynamic
You want to keep her into you (and craving your satisfaction) long term? You've got to keep gaming her mind and body

Post: #21

Isn't this the "ideal" girl? Someone who has had no prior experiences? This is the danger with the "How many guys in her past is too much for my LTR?" threads--it distills things into simple rules by which to govern your life. In reality, having that "pure, untouched virginal girl" means you have someone that at best is inexperienced, and at "worst" isn't particularly sexual.

She was 20. She was inexperienced, still determining what she's interested in (and not interested in), and you've gotten to know each other. You moved in together, live together, etc. It's unlikely she is going to change--if she was, it would have happened. If you're unhappy and you guys can't work it out, best to break it off and move out, unfortunately.

Post: #22

(05-08-2017 03:51 PM)ChrisGaines Wrote:  She was 20. She was inexperienced, still determining what she's interested in (and not interested in), and you've gotten to know each other. You moved in together, live together, etc. It's unlikely she is going to change--if she was, it would have happened.

Respectfully...I disagree. Humans are creatures of habit. Habit by definition is repetition or not changing

In this this instance they both seem somewhat inexperienced (no offense OP) and so likely just "fell into" their sexual dynamic without much forethought given.

The entire premise of "game" is application of acquired knowledge. The advantage of getting into a sexual relationship with a virgin is that she's a clean slate and thereby more easily guided with the added benefit of having the unique opportunity of a unique bond as her first. But this requires that the guy know how to do that.. OP came here looking for that knowledge.

In fact it's his role to do so.

(05-08-2017 03:51 PM)ChrisGaines Wrote:  If you're unhappy and you guys can't work it out, best to break it off and move out, unfortunately.

From the sounds of it the girls has significant redeeming qualities and worth trying to salvage. The fact that she requires the dirty talk is telling me she's begging to be more sexual...he's just not found her "whore button" yet. But its probably there

Of course if it's an irredeemable situation then by all means they should both move on.

Either way OP would benefit from learning how to sexually "awaken" her: lest he fall into this dynamic again on the next one too

Post: #23

(05-08-2017 04:18 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 03:51 PM)ChrisGaines Wrote:  She was 20. She was inexperienced, still determining what she's interested in (and not interested in), and you've gotten to know each other. You moved in together, live together, etc. It's unlikely she is going to change--if she was, it would have happened.

Respectfully...I disagree. Humans are creatures of habit. Habit by definition is repetition or not changing

In this this instance they both seem somewhat inexperienced (no offense OP) and so likely just "fell into" their sexual dynamic without much forethought given.

The entire premise of "game" is application of acquired knowledge. The advantage of getting into a sexual relationship with a virgin is that she's a clean slate and thereby more easily guided with the added benefit of having the unique opportunity of a unique bond as her first. But this requires that the guy know how to do that.. OP came here looking for that knowledge.

In fact it's his role to do so.

(05-08-2017 03:51 PM)ChrisGaines Wrote:  If you're unhappy and you guys can't work it out, best to break it off and move out, unfortunately.

From the sounds of it the girls has significant redeeming qualities and worth trying to salvage. The fact that she requires the dirty talk is telling me she's begging to be more sexual...he's just not found her "whore button" yet. But its probably there

Of course if it's an irredeemable situation then by all means they should both move on.

Either way OP would benefit from learning how to sexually "awaken" her: lest he fall into this dynamic again on the next one too

This is true--I guess I just figured that after 4 years--3 of which they were living together--she sort of is who she is.

Agreed on the 2nd point as well, but he seems really hung up on the sexual part--or lack thereof. He absolutely could (and should) work on it if he feels it could work. Based on his lengthy post, however, if it is that much of a deal-breaker for him, it could just breed resentment and make things worse. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, obviously don't know either one, but that's what struck me

Post: #24

If he's about to break up anyway then what does he have to lose by proposing something radical like a 3-way?
Neither of them have had any variety so introducing new flesh is gonna be exciting no matter what. Plus, having another woman there who CAN get off, especially someone bi who knows how to handle guys and girls, might have a hugely beneficial impact on both of them. You sell it as something educational/therapeutic and maybe she'd go for it (if you can find a volunteer).

Post: #25

OP this is a classic mans dilemma

You have a great woman who is shit at sex.

Yes, with a lot of work and effort it can imporve a little bit around the edges. Maybe after a child or after she turns 40 she will get sexy. Probably not.

Its a difficult choice to have an A grade woman who is shit at sex, or a B grade woman who is great at sex.

Personally I would go for a 7 that bangs excellent than a frigid 9.

Shes going to lose her looks soon, and still be shit at sex...