Post: #1

Some people trapped in upper floors they say.

Post: #2

First big fire in London for years, there was a similar fire in South London, Camberwell some years back; where a couple of flats in a top floor tower block such as this were destroyed; killing the families inside. But this looks like something on a completely different level.

Post: #3

I jumped back to the start of the livestream and the place was already gutted by then.

Earlier footage here:





Shit. The hell if I'd live in one of those places without a few hundreds yards of rope and some rapelling gear.

From a different angle. Looks like it started at the bottom of a stairwell maybe and just shot straight up.

Post: #4

The Manchester benefit concert might as well plan tour dates. I wonder how many have to die before the Rolling Stones will play.

Edit: BBC says it's unusual for a solid concrete building like that to burn so quickly, which suggests an accelerate was used. Speculation at this point.

Post: #5

Might I be the first to ask was this anything to do with "the religion of peace?"

Post: #6

Can someone check hashtags on twitter relevant to the building, maybe "someone" has already made a statement yesterday.

Post: #7

(06-13-2017 11:21 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Shit. The hell if I'd live in one of those places without a few hundreds yards of rope and some rapelling gear.

For the most part, the risk of a large scale fire in a modern high rise building is quite low. My condo is on a higher floor than that entire building and I feel fairly safe, more so than I would in a home in some ways, given all the various ways a fire could start in a home that don't exist in a high rise- like gas stoves, gas water heaters, gas/oil furnaces etc.

Between the concrete construction, deliberate air handling design which pushes air out from the center of the building into units (which would help contain a fire in a unit), only electric stoves/appliances and Fan Coil heating, and most importantly fire suppression water sprinklers throughout including in-unit, occupants in buildings like mine are probably at a lower risk than those in an older home (or even new one) or a 3 story walk up brownstone apartment.

Those factors, and the fact that the Fire Dept is literally across the street, 30 feet away, keeps my mind at ease. A couple of those firefighters live in the building in fact.

Though, I will admit to having the occasional thought of purchasing a couple of these, which seems to be the best solution for an emergency like this that I've found. Just don't be the third guest at my place or we'll be looking at a GlobaMan's Choice situation.

I don't know if I could ever go back to living on the ground now that I've experienced living up in the air. There must be something biological or primal in having such a vantage point. I feel like a fuckin' eagle up here, surveying all the animals and crush of life from the safety and serenity of my nest, sipping my coffee nude in front of the window, formulating my own weather report looking at the endless sky.

The building in this London incident was built in 1974, it's quite possible that, while meeting fire code, it did not incorporate the best fire prevention and suppression methods.

Of course if this turns out to be a culmination of very unlikely freak circumstances or deliberate act there is little to prevent that- but in turn, such things happen only rarely. Or, if it turns out to be negligence of some sort or not following code, it could have been prevented then and most likely would be in other buildings.

Post: #8

(06-14-2017 01:20 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  ...
Though, I will admit to having the occasional thought of purchasing a couple of these, which seems to be the best solution for an emergency like this that I've found. Just don't be the third guest at my place or we'll be looking at a GlobaMan's Choice situation.
...

I was going to say something to this effect but the comments section in that article yielded something similar.

Quote:jan March 4, 2011 · 2:43 pm

If you can sell one, you can probably sell a bunch, for the simple reason that no one wants to be the only person in the office who has one of these things. They wouldn’t wish at the crucial moment to be faced with the dilemma of whether to use it for themselves or offer it up to someone else, and they definitely wouldn’t trust that if they did use it for themselves one of their less approving co-workers wouldn’t unhook it from the door frame the moment they stepped out the window. Get just one guy or one gal in every office to buy one and the rest, at their behest, lest they be left behind, will follow suit.

Post: #9

(06-14-2017 01:38 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 01:20 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  ...
Though, I will admit to having the occasional thought of purchasing a couple of these, which seems to be the best solution for an emergency like this that I've found. Just don't be the third guest at my place or we'll be looking at a GlobaMan's Choice situation.
...

I was going to say something to this effect but the comments section in that article yielded something similar.

...

"Steve, John, you've both been good friends. But here we are. It's crazy. Difficult. Ugh. The only thing I can think of separating you two is how Steve you just can't stop with the "DACA" stuff. So....."

Post: #10

delete- double

Post: #11

The tower will come down any minute now and pulverize in mid-air.

Post: #12

Perfectly from top to bottom without veering, no less.

No need for excessive collateral damage.

Post: #13

(06-14-2017 12:21 AM)Guitarman Wrote:  Might I be the first to ask was this anything to do with "the religion of peace?"

I'll probably lose $10 for this, but my bet would be "No".

Mainly because in the Hadith Mohammed is said to have castigated a sheik who burned apostates at the stake, saying that he should not use Allah's punishment against unbelievers. If this had been a wholesale headchopping massacre, well, that's another story, because Teh Profet didn't have a problem with decapitation.

Quote:Sahih al-Bukhari 6922—Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to Ali; and he burnt them. The news of this event reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

EDIT: On the other hand, he did authorise burning people in their houses for not coming out for prayer, so who the fuck knows.

Quote:Allah’s Apostle said,“By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the ‘Isha’ prayer.’[fifth of the five daily prayers]

(Abu Huraira, 1:11:617)

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #14

I'll go out on a limb and say it's unlikely to be associated with the religion of peace.

Saw a link to this blog on twitter, apparently there have been safety concerns and complaints for years.

Same blog, seven months ago:

Quote:It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

Unfortunately, the Grenfell Action Group have reached the conclusion that only an incident that results in serious loss of life of KCTMO residents will allow the external scrutiny to occur that will shine a light on the practices that characterise the malign governance of this non-functioning organisation. We believe that the KCTMO have ensured their ongoing survival by the use of proxy votes at their Annual General Meeting that see them returned with a mandate of 98% in favour of the continuation of their inept and highly dangerous management of our homes.

Post: #15

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/201...ayer-time/

Quote:Ramadan Arson? 120-Flat Block Burn People Alive in West London After Prayer Time

Quote:If they had any terrorism wisdom in London they would investigate arson. And they would start by investigating the survivors. The Isha and Taraweeh prayers started at 23.10pm London time. The fires started a few hours after.

London’s Muslim Mayor (voted in through massive mosque campaigns) Sadiq Khan was suddenly quick to call the incident an emergency, while after Muslim terror attacks he takes his sweet time to say anything.

Ramadan is a notorious season for arson, bomb attacks, knifings, and other brutal attempts to appease Allah during the holy month, when jihad is more effective for reaching Jannah than any other time of the year.

The building had a large Muslim population, especially from Somalia – a ferocious community responsible for many arson attacks in Europe. Muslims are always battling and targeting each other, apart from targeting the infidel. Although the building had undergone a £10 mio. renovation only a year ago, it appears something went “wrong” with the fire alarm and sprinkler system. The fire was unusually aggressive and spread quicker than even the fire department had estimated and they had “never seen anything like it”. Of course, when it’s not a natural fire it will behave unexpected…

There are 2 options here:

1) The 68-IQ Somali population wanted to grill something and it went bad - this is by the way no joke. Istanbul 5-star hotels had to ban people to come in with any food, because their well-off but backwards clients grilled right in the middle of the room not only smoking up and destroying the interior, but also risking fire.

2) Arson, because one or a few local more devout Muslims found the other Muslims not going to prayer, so they decided to teach them a lesson.



It is also interesting that they call it an "incident" just like terror acts are incidents.

A tragedy is an accident and who knows - it may be.

But seriously would you feel fine living in a building with plenty of 70-IQ Somalis who are also highly aggressive, tribal, combative, lack impulse control? The grilling by the way indoors is no exaggeration - many Middle Easterners do that inside!



Looks like it was truly a predominantly Muslim tower. Internal strife between sects is also a possibility. A disgruntled new migrant who was dissatisfied with his council flat is also an option.

That said - I feel compassion towards the ones who died and were poisoned there. I really hope that they don't suppress the facts this time and show if it was truly arson or some moronic action by a few idiots.

If we don't go to the Middle East, then the Middle East comes to us and this is just the part and parcel of living with backwards Islam in the West.

Post: #16

(06-14-2017 02:29 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The tower will come down any minute now and pulverize in mid-air.

I don't know what the truth is there, but IMO the real tragedy of 9/11 was in its causes and its followup, not in the exact method for destroying buildings. Like our favorite politician would say, at this point, what difference does it make?

Whether the towers really came down from jet fuel melting softening the construction on 80th floor, or from some conspiracy theory, the fact that the event A) involved Saudi jihadists with direct US support and B) was later used to justify several pointless wars and global mass surveillance would still make it a travesty of western civilization. And both of those are highly visible facts that anyone can observe and confirm for themselves.

Those 3000 dead people from WTC would be turning in their graves now if they only knew why that event happened or what it would lead to.

Post: #17

Would parachutes be a better safety mechanism for towers than those winches?

Post: #18

(06-14-2017 03:14 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Looks like it was truly a predominantly Muslim tower. Internal strife between sects is also a possibility. A disgruntled new migrant who was dissatisfied with his council flat is also an option.

That said - I feel compassion towards the ones who died and were poisoned there. I really hope that they don't suppress the facts this time and show if it was truly arson or some moronic action by a few idiots.

If we don't go to the Middle East, then the Middle East comes to us and this is just the part and parcel of living with backwards Islam in the West.

Fuck me, I'm going to lose my $10, aren't I. Jesus fucking Christ, I really was thinking this was just going to be a 'normal' fire. I suppose the MSM's next thing will be to start speculating which white supremacist decided to burn up a bunch of Muslims.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #19

I second Zel's explanation regarding unsafe indoor cooking techniques of the FOB crowd, though it might not go all the way to explain why the fire burned so ferociously.

That said, I've worked fire panels before and it wasn't uncommon for one of the other idiots working the previous shift to accidentally leave the master panel key in the "test" position when they thought they were merely attending another incident of burnt toast.

I'm not sure what kind of centralised alarm system they had, but if the panel was shifted deliberately or accidentally to "isolate" or "test" then it might take the fire department several hours to finally call the super and ask what the fuck was going on. By that stage the fire could have been well underway.

Still, the way it ran up in a column like that makes it seem like it was lit with a massive amount of accelerant poured down a stairwell or something.

In any case unless concrete evidence of arson is dumped on the internet by the arsonists then this is sure to remain a mystery for some time yet.

Post: #20

(06-14-2017 03:25 AM)glugger Wrote:  Would parachutes be a better safety mechanism for towers than those winches?

Not enough altitude, room, or draft to open properly.

Wingsuits, maybe?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #21

(06-14-2017 03:39 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Fuck me, I'm going to lose my $10, aren't I. Jesus fucking Christ, I really was thinking this was just going to be a 'normal' fire. I suppose the MSM's next thing will be to start speculating which white supremacist decided to burn up a bunch of Muslims.

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if it was an attack from the right, or more likely, a false flag to be blamed on the right.

Post: #22

(06-14-2017 03:41 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 03:25 AM)glugger Wrote:  Would parachutes be a better safety mechanism for towers than those winches?

Not enough altitude, room, or draft to open properly.

Wingsuits, maybe?

Wingsuits are only gliding in air, but a parachute stops their fall.
Paragliders cannot open properly on the side of a building. It would work with the WTC, but not with a building as big as this. But you could have a chance if you were well-versed and were lucky.
Hang gliders are too big and no way to set them up.

Currently there is no easy tech out there.

For a building like this the low-tech response is the easiest:


Climbing is a very useful hobby. All you would need is to have enough equipment. open or smash in the window. Connect the rope to something stable and then get the fuck out as quickly as possible. You would need all the equipment for your family and pets as well or strong backpacks if they are young.

Some practice is necessary, but it is not as difficult to just come down. There is fire resistant rope. But people are not prepared. We should add that to the list of enrichment necessities:

+ paraglider when working in taller building
+ climbing gear when being in 5-20 story building
+ combat cane / weapons in case of terror knife attack
+ combat cane in case of assault/rape attempt of enrichment
+ combat boots/running shoes in case of car terror attack
+ no listening to music while going through a Western city - consider it like walking through Vietnam jungle where the Vietcong can pounce on you any minute now by car, knife, suicide bomb or gun attacks - also watch out for random violence or acid attacks

But as I said - I would help the people there who were hurt and died in the fire. Anyone who caused this should be punished severely. Looks more like arson to me due to the fast spread. They renovated it for 10 mio. pounds recently and certainly did not put in bales of straw as insulation. Normally those buildings don't burn that fast unless something truly went wrong there.

Post: #23

It's all possible. Anything is possible, now. Having said that, if it were a false flag attack to impugn the right I think they would have produced "evidence" by the time the first fire trucks rolled up.

quickedit: All of the possible tools to escape a tall building through a window are all good and well for the people with the balls to use them, but most people (women in particular) would sooner burn in the hope of rescue than strap on a harness and step out of a 50 story window.

Post: #24

(06-14-2017 04:22 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  but most people (women in particular) would sooner burn in the hope of rescue than strap on a harness and step out of a 50 story window.

PREACH Leonard! You good thing!

Post: #25

I was watching this Dany Cotton woman (Head of the London Fire Brigade) being interviewed. I felt a twinge of cynicism - 'H1N1', I thought to myself, 'This has more than a whiff of a politically expedient appointment about it'. Shocked and appalled at my immediate resort to Wrong Think, I rushed to the internet to reassure myself that here was a woman promoted to the top for all the right reasons. I searched for the anecdotes I knew would be there, describing her as a titan, renowned for her ability to walk 20 floors of a high rise with a grown man on her shoulders whilst wearing full protective gear. I was sure, given her amusingly appropriate, deliberately gender-neutrally-abbreviated name, that I was watching the first of a new breed of emergency service athletes - a hybrid of male physicality and athleticism, and soothing femininity so often welcomed by those in dire straights.

Brothers, it grieves me to say I found no such anecdotes. So far as I can tell, Dany lacks the virtues of both the sexes. No anecdotes of her bravery abound. However, you will be as pleased as I am to know that she is redeemed. What she does have in abundance is the right opinions - her cup positively runneth over with them. To whit:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017...-interview

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/fi...25826.html

[img] https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/eb82f0829...586bf6a23c[/img]

Dany on the right as a young hero. Purely coincidentally at the opposite extreme to the strapping black chap who looks like he carries entire families on his back up and down tower blocks as a form of R&R. If one should ever find oneself being lightly flambéed in the charming surrounds of the 20th story of a 70s concrete tower block in West London, one should count oneself lucky to be presented with such diversity of positive outcomes - being rescued by the big bloke, or dying safe in the knowledge that you were not part of a society that allowed discrimination on the grounds of anything so grubby as ability.