Post: #1

I believe I have reached a limit to the amount of success I can have with women.

Let me explain.

30 Year Old White Male
Above average looks
6 feet tall with above average physique
Self-made internet millionaire
Well educated
Live in a mansion near one of the top nightlife destinations in the United States.
Cool car, cool clothes, all that BS.
Good game honed over years of international travel, tons of cold approaching, lots of mistakes and lessons learned, and working in the EDM industry for a short period.

I have very high level social skills and I go out primarily alone. I almost always end up in an isolated conversation with the most attractive women in the venue and leave with her number. I am aggressive, self-aware, give zero fucks, and at the very least, never "creep" girls out.

I meet women primarily from rolling solo to bars and nightclubs, and tinder.

I can have any girl I want below a 7/10. They will chase me, text me, send friend requests, and always say yes. Attractive, intelligent, great girls that any man would be lucky to have. Marriageable girls. All I have to do is just say hello, be disinterested, and they try not to fuck it up for themselves. I am probably an idiot for not just settling down with one of the better ones, focusing on my career, and hanging up the hat.

But one thing irks me and pushes me to stay in the game.

For the life of me, I cannot get and keep a truly beautiful girl. There is a hard stop for me at 8 and above. It's almost like a law of physics. It doesn't matter if it's a dime piece from the Favela's of Medellin, or a some SoHo trust fund chick, if they're a true 8 and above (Maxim magazine level girls) they slip through my hands like water.

I flirt with these women, they are interested, I get their numbers all the time, I get "makeouts." Once in a blue moon I will actually end up pulling one of them home for a night, but I cannot keep them or get them to showup for a day 2.

7's and below: Average 20% flake/ghost rate for me.
8's and above: Average 95% flake/ghost rate.
Hard Math.
I'm not talking super models, I'm just talking about your average hottest girl in the club. Age range 18-25

Maybe once a year I'll actually pull one of these girls and have an incredible night where I feel we share a great experience. I have learned not to get my hopes up, because it will always end with a ghost. 8's and above are slippery, disinterested, aloof, elusive, and ruthless to anything less than a celebrity.

There is nothing different about these girls besides their physical appearance.

Here is what I believe is going on:

A. My over interest in sending extremely subtle vibes that are repelling these girls, despite that I am actively aware and make a strong effort to treat them no differently.

B.There is a true exponential value difference at play, while we perceive an 8 or 9 as being the same species, they are actually experiencing a value alpha of potentially 100-1000X average girls in terms of life experience and options, exacerbated by social media.

C.I have reached the limit of my success as a lonewolf, without an extremely strong social circle, primarily meeting women through cold approach.

I believe I have reached a point of diminishing returns in game. To get the women I want, I will need to focus exclusively on lifestyle setup. You need some sort of an angle.

Here are some angles:

You need to be where other guys can't be.

You need to have male model looks.

You need to be a professional athlete.

You need to be an industry insider at a top club where you look like the coolest and most important guy in the venue every night.

You need to be an instagram celebrity lavished with attention from competing women.

You need to be obscenely wealthy and have a lifestyle to match.

You need to have a world class local social situation with really cool well connected friends, some of them being minor celebrities.

You need to own a famous business that has hot young women as customers. Bar owner, popular clothing line, gym, juice shops, etc.

You need to be a celebrity, or at least be and inside man at exclusive parties. (Big fish in small pond, you can be a "local celebrity")

I think the days of the lone wolf playboy are over.
There are some guys who are just super naturals, like a young Arnold Schwarzenegger, that don't need any of that. But that's not me, and I doubt that's you.

To get these dimes who have 100X value, you need to be a 100X value man, and you can't just convince her of that on your own. You need social proof to tell her you are 100X.

What do you guys think?
(long time lurker, didn't post to brag. hoping to get feedback and opinions from likeminded guys)

Post: #2

What do I think?
I'm gonna take a guess you're not gonna get any sympathy here...

Post: #3

Quote:World class game honed over years of international travel and working in the EDM industry. Have interacted with hundreds of thousands of women.

How can you interact with hundreds of thousands of women? That would be 28 girls a day for 10 years.

My guess is you don't actually have world class game and probably have rather weak game, and you attract girls with your "leverage"(that is, they perceive you to be better than them, so you just show up and take it). A decent number of guys in a much worse position than you can semi-consistently attract 8+s.

Post: #4

Still not sure what you mean "have them". Are you talking bang or wife them?

Why do you assume they are marraigeable? Just because their hot and have money?

Also, why have you been a "lone wolf" for so long? Trying to prove something to yourself? I don't think anyone ever said lone wolf is the best or easiest approach. . . having cool friends and a kickass life by all means makes the game easier so yes by being a lone wolf you are unnecisarily handicapping yourself. I don't know anything about a hard cap though, life doesn't have rules like an RPG.

This thread screams "finding yourself" more than "looking for advice", assuming you aren't trolling.

Post: #5

No matter the premise, the end of the post is 100.

From my experience seeing rich, good looking, artistic guys etc... easily keeping dimes you have be in a scene where your potential or current pieces see you hanging out with other dimes on a consistent basis where the pieces in question feel territorial whether the threat of you banging the other girls is real or imagined.

Top of food chain nightlife staff, model agency guy, fashion photographer, musician/DJ/athlete with groupies etc...

I think they need some competition to stay focused. Like any human they need a challenge to feel satisfied.

The guys I have witnessed have multiple dimes in rotation has been a guy you see where all the dimes run up to hug him as one of the first things they do when they arrive. They need to see preselection constantly to stay interested.

Also probably the number one reason to have a hot girl purely as friends isn't meeting their hot girlfriends. It is making any girl you ever try to bang or end up banging being jealous you went out and had a smoothie hangout with another dime. That competition is intensely real for chicks. Playing the she's just a friend (or better - they) flips the script completely on a hot chick that isn't used to being on the receiving end.

Preselection is like dangling a steak in front of the lion for them, intense focus.

The question to themselves about you is: If I stopped answering this dude today, how long would it take him to be fucking another girl just as hot or hotter? If that answer is a long time or maybe never that is something that twists them.

Post: #6

I've heard hi-so girls love Porsche Panameras.

Post: #7

(08-06-2017 07:06 PM)Repo Wrote:  Still not sure what you mean "have them". Are you talking bang or wife them?

Why do you assume they are marraigeable? Just because their hot and have money?

Also, why have you been a "lone wolf" for so long? Trying to prove something to yourself? I don't think anyone ever said lone wolf is the best or easiest approach. . . having cool friends and a kickass life by all means makes the game easier so yes by being a lone wolf you are unnecisarily handicapping yourself. I don't know anything about a hard cap though, life doesn't have rules like an RPG.

This thread screams "finding yourself" more than "looking for advice", assuming you aren't trolling.

"Have them" means to have a continued relationship on my terms that ends when I want. Tropical vacations, fucking in my car, get married. Just not getting ghosted
before I can get a second date.

I'm a lone wolf because that's just the way life works out when you're 30, most of your friends are married, and you focus on your career instead of being Mr. super cool life of the party club guy.

Post: #8

Post: #9

This is above my pay grade but I agree with Travesty because I've witnessed similar things. It's why I can't agree with the "men and women can never be friends" comments. The highest level players need to have hot female friends...or be rich athletes or celebrities.

(08-06-2017 07:07 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ...

The guys I have witnessed have multiple dimes in rotation has been a guy you see where all the dimes run up to hug him as one of the first things they do when they arrive. They need to see preselection constantly to stay interested.

Also probably the number one reason to have a hot girl purely as friends isn't meeting their hot girlfriends. It is making any girl you ever try to bang or end up banging being jealous you went out and had a smoothie hangout with another dime. That competition is intensely real for chicks. Playing the she's just a friend (or better - they) flips the script completely on a hot chick that isn't used to being on the receiving end.

Preselection is like dangling a steak in front of the lion for them, intense focus.

The question to themselves about you is: If I stopped answering this dude today, how long would it take him to be fucking another girl just as hot or hotter? If that answer is a long time or maybe never that is something that twists them.

Post: #10

(08-06-2017 07:15 PM)BrickLake Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 07:06 PM)Repo Wrote:  Still not sure what you mean "have them". Are you talking bang or wife them?

Why do you assume they are marraigeable? Just because their hot and have money?

Also, why have you been a "lone wolf" for so long? Trying to prove something to yourself? I don't think anyone ever said lone wolf is the best or easiest approach. . . having cool friends and a kickass life by all means makes the game easier so yes by being a lone wolf you are unnecisarily handicapping yourself. I don't know anything about a hard cap though, life doesn't have rules like an RPG.

This thread screams "finding yourself" more than "looking for advice", assuming you aren't trolling.

Have means to end the relationship when I want, on my terms.

I have been a lone wolf because that's just the way life works out when you're 30, most of your friends are married, and you focus on your career instead of being Mr. super cool life of the party club guy.

So lets take it another level, why do you feel the need to end the relationship when you want on your own terms?

Is this a matter of pride? Some people would say that women come and go, and its better to never break a sweat when one leaves, because that just means more time to chase another. Perhaps it is this chase of control that they sense and are turned off by. You have accomplished alot, and the truth is you will be fine whether they stay or leave. Your attitude should reflect that. You are an appreciating asset because of the hard, work you put in. The women are not. My only advice would be to learn to let things go. You banged them in their prime, and will bang other ones just like them in the future. Fuck them. If you continue on this trajectory, when they are washed up and hitting the wall they will want you back, but you will be too busy with other women to notice.

"Women are like busses, miss one next 15 one coming" -Gucci Mane

I definately understand the last paragraph, most of my closest friends I've known growing up are married too, and it has been a challenge to find new ones I can really trust.


Best of luck.

Post: #11

I am your slightly less handsome, slightly less rich brother and I understand your pain. 8.5+ is like a magic fucking barrier

Post: #12

I think you've basically answered your own question. Your analysis is correct. The difficulty increase in landing an 8 or a 9 versus a 6 or 7 is not linear, it's exponential. It literally IS 5-10x harder to land an 8 than a 7, and 5-10x harder still to land a 9. You aren't imagining things, that's really how the modern sexual marketplace is currently operating. This seems bonkers from our perspective, but try to imagine that you had dozens of 6s and 7s blowing up your phone every day, not only wanting to have sex with you, but offering to buy you things and take you on dates and trips. That's basically the state of abundance that 8s and 9s live in today. They are in large degree suffering from analysis paralysis: they literally have so many options to choose from that they can't decide. This is why you are correct to conclude that you really have to stand out in one way or another from the vast majority of other men on her radar: that's the only way to make a strong enough impression that you shock her out of that state of paralysis and make her take action to choose you.

I think there's also a lot of truth to the idea that there is a ceiling to lone wolf style nightgame. Unless you have one of those extreme status enhancing traits that you listed, it's almost impossible to pull an 8 or 9 as a lone wolf off a cold approach at night. These girls' social circles are just too strong to penetrate in 99% of cases. Girls that hot are the jewels of every social circle and are highly guarded. She is almost sure to be out in a mixed group of guys and girls, so even if you hit it off with her off a cold approach you can expect to face brutal AMOGing, cockblocking and mother hen action from her friends. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but the stars have to align to pull it off. It's not a tactic to build your game around, it's just too low of a percentage play.

The elephant in the room that I've ignored so far is that you're a millionaire. This separates you from the vast majority of men, especially young, good-looking, game-aware men. I get the sense that you are worried about gold diggers and/or don't like to use your money to attract women. I think this is a mistake. That doesn't mean you should start blowing a bunch of money foolishly in an effort to attract women (or worse get into an outright P4P arrangement) but you should probably be more open to using your money as a tool to help you meet women. This means only going to high-end clubs and lounges, for starters. Do you have a nice boat? Women love partying on boats. Throw some money into starting up a local modeling or promotion business where you can interact with these sort of women.

Social circle is also key. As an extremely successful man with good social skills, you have a lot to offer. People will want to be your friend. Use your money to facilitate the growth of your social circle. Throw parties. Take people out on your boat. Invite a few guys for a weekend boys trip of golf, gambling and titty bars. Little things like that go a long way, and aren't going to seriously dent your pocketbook if you're a millionaire. The average choade millionaire is out buying a $250k car to try to impress people, meanwhile you can achieve a deeper and more lasting impact by dropping a couple thousand on a trip. Think of this an investment. You're trying to generate social capital. You have to develop those assets, which in this case are relationships. This is something that game literature has really fallen short on addressing. You need to surround yourself with other high SMV men. Wherever high SMV men congregate, 8s and 9s are not far away. How can you befriend the other high SMV men under 40 in your city? You're a millionaire, not some guy working at a taco stand. You have a legitimate claim to belonging in that group. Make that your social circle and it will pay huge dividends.

tl;dr action items:

- Buy a nice boat and take people out, host parties, go on trips with people
- Only target high-end night venues, charity events/galas, places where only hot women and rich guys congregate
- Start a lifestyle side business that puts you in close contact with hot women: modeling, promotions, tanning salon, etc...
- Find a way to make friends with other high SMV young guys in your city <-- really the most crucial thing, IMO
- Ultimately the goal is to create local microfame with yourself as the nexus of a social circle of high SMV guys who are always having fun and the hot women who are invariably attracted to that

Post: #13

(08-06-2017 06:52 PM)BrickLake Wrote:  For the life of me, I cannot get and keep a truly beautiful girl. There is a hard stop for me at 8 and above. It's almost like a law of physics. It doesn't matter if it's a dime piece from the Favela's of Medellin, or a some SoHo trust fund chick, if they're a true 8 and above (Maxim magazine level girls) they slip through my hands like water.

At first I thought you were trolling but you hit the nail on the head right here. I hit a similar problem a while ago [And I'm not rich] where you hit the 8's and 9's and it's a hard stop.

While it could be the subtleties of changing your game around higher value women, I doubt it. It's likely the laws of attraction, almost like a level up game. I.E: Once you achieve a certain level of status, you attract a certain level of girl.

Status can be money, fame, social circle, game, lifestyle [Which isn't interchangeable with money], muscle, looks, confidence etc.

Any combination of the above can work together to eventually unlock the 8's. What you are experiencing is that you just haven't reached that status level yet. I.E: You have money and some looks. Okay, but it clearly isn't at the level that distinguishes you from the other wealthy attractive men. So where to now?

Easy, you improve. It's all about constant improvement. You look at your lifestyle and find the weak spot that you're willing to work on.

You have your money on lock? [There are levels of money] Your looks are maxed? Well how is your lifestyle? How is your social circle? [You mentioned you roll solo. Status around other men is very powerful]. You have an above average physique? But can it improve? What about your personal life? Do you have any hobbies that YOU want to do? These intangibles help. They improve you as a man and build a network. It helps.

In my own personal case my first stumbling block was 7's. I struggled big league with 7's. At the time I had some looks and some basic level game from Neil Strauss which in hindsight is almost corny. [That was my early 20's. I'm 30 now].

I bulked up from 180lb to 200lb and suddenly the 7's were easy game. Didn't have to open my mouth.

Next hurdle came with the 8's. Now I don't have baller money. I have a business but nothing that would impress a women. I had maxed my looks, but I was experiencing what you said: I got a 8-9 here and there but never routine. The kiss was easy but the flake was around 90+%.

My game was, and still is average. What changed next was my lifestyle. I introduced surfing and Brazilian Ju Jitsu. Passions that I enjoyed. This boosted social circle and it improved me as a man. I had a more diverse list of goals. Not including the glamours your meet through socials circles [With whom you are automatically vetted], you also pull 8's and the occasional 9 into your orbit through social circle.

This is another level up in status. Long story short, you are plateauing because your current status level isn't enough. Pick an area you're willing to work on. Maintain your other attributes, and eventually you'll experience with the 8's what you experience with the 7's.

Post: #14

this thread is pointless. I'll give my opinion regardless.
The solution to your problem is simply to move somewhere else:
If you are who you say you are and you can't get 8+ girls in the US then you'll find a plethora of 9+ girls in eastern europe who have spent many a night praying to the lord for a man of your exact specifications to come to them. If I were you I'd book a one way flight to Kiev or St Petersburg- if you haven't already done that.

Post: #15

Welcome back, NTP.

Post: #16

(08-06-2017 08:06 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The elephant in the room that I've ignored so far is that you're a millionaire. This separates you from the vast majority of men, especially young, good-looking, game-aware men. I get the sense that you are worried about gold diggers and/or don't like to use your money to attract women. I think this is a mistake. That doesn't mean you should start blowing a bunch of money foolishly in an effort to attract women (or worse get into an outright P4P arrangement) but you should probably be more open to using your money as a tool to help you meet women. This means only going to high-end clubs and lounges, for starters. Do you have a nice boat? Women love partying on boats. Throw some money into starting up a local modeling or promotion business where you can interact with these sort of women.

Millionaire, not multi-millionaire, not billionaire with garages of exotic cars and private planes. I am pretty thrifty, because I am in love with my freedom right now. I basically just have a pretty nice house, decent car, and can travel comfortably and do whatever I want for the next 5 years before I ever had to think about working again. Still actively working though obviously.

Here's how I leverage my money. When I exchange numbers, I give girls my full name. If they google me (they will if they're remotely interested) there are tons of articles in business publications that make it pretty clear I'm a successful entrepreneur.

Cheaper than blowing tens of thousands of dollars at shithole nightclubs to show how big my financial cock is. I've blown too much money in flashy clubs with poor results. Too hectic and I hate feeling like I'm getting played. I much prefer more low key venues where I can walk in for free, spend 5 bucks on a beer, and find the 2-3 girls in the place that are just as hot as any of the girls at some highend nightclub in a far more approachable environment.

A boat is a good idea, but the one I want is about double my net worth right now haha

Post: #17

You need to work on your subconscious. Whenever you get a girl that hot you start fucking it up. I don't have all those toys but I can keep an 8-10 when I get one. We have opposite problems, the grass is always greener.

Post: #18

(08-06-2017 07:28 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  This is above my pay grade but I agree with Travesty because I've witnessed similar things. It's why I can't agree with the "men and women can never be friends" comments. The highest level players need to have hot female friends...or be rich athletes or celebrities.

Are those really friends though, or are they acquaintances you tolerate not fucking because of the attendant benefits they bring?

To be clearer, I would never choose a female as a friend based on companionship and pure enjoyment of time-spent, cos they could never compete with even my second tier of male friends.

But when they are very attractive, bring other girls around, talk you up / make you look good, open social doors, or aid your business in some way, yes, we are "friends".

And I don't mean that in a callous way. I will take a few midnight phone calls to comfort them on dark nights of the soul. I wish them health and happiness.

Post: #19

American women at the 8+ range have the world in their fingers. Better to just move out and travel where you'll pull 8s in Europe / Asia at a much easier clip if you can work remotely. Rent out your house to pay the bills.

Post: #20

You could be boring and don't wow them on any deeper levels?

Post: #21

(08-06-2017 08:56 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Are those really friends though, or are they acquaintances you tolerate not fucking because of the attendant benefits they bring?

To be clearer, I would never choose a female as a friend based on companionship and pure enjoyment of time-spent, cos they could never compete with even my second tier of male friends.

But when they are very attractive, bring other girls around, talk you up / make you look good, open social doors, or aid your business in some way, yes, we are "friends".

And I don't mean that in a callous way. I will take a few midnight phone calls to comfort them on dark nights of the soul. I wish them health and happiness.

I think we are thinking the same thing. They are friends but not good friends that you count on in a crisis. I don't think it is very common for women to be like that unless they are family. I think it's possible to have a woman who is a truly good friend but it's uncommon and it isn't the type of friendship that we are talking about in this thread.

You could say they are acquaintances if friend is too strong of a word but I wouldn't say that "you tolerate not fucking them because of the benefits". I think it relates to secret society game where you know a lot of attractive girls and it's possible that you might bang some of them when they become available but you aren't really pursuing them. It's like the frat boy who is coaching the girl's sorority sports team. He may not be pursuing those girls (at least not directly) but you know he's eventually going to try to bang some of them.

This is an interesting point though. This scenario doesn't exist among forum guys who are traveling abroad. If attractive girls come up to hug you and you aren't trying to bang them, then you can bet your life that these guys will go after them. It's like hanging out in a pack of hungry wolves. Not a bad thing but it's funny in a way.

Question for BrickLake: What happens if you figure this out and are successful with a few of these 8s and 9s? Where do you go from there? Will it still be important to get these girls or will you move on to the next challenge that might not relate to girls at all?

Post: #22

This is also a number games, I did some calculations. Lets say you live live in LA, population of 18 million. Based off the US census there is around 18 million women between 20-29 our of 320 million people. Only 40% of those are in relationship, but I'd imagine the top tier the percentage is significantly higher.

Lets use that a more realistic 60% number and be generous with the bell curve, which puts 5% of the women at a 8+. Extrapolating the data this would ultimately mean around 20,000 8+ single women in the greater LA area. While this may sound like a lot keep in mind there are over 260,000 millionaire households in LA county alone.

That's a ratio of 10:1. Now I'm sure some of those guys are loyal, but the majority would definitely be playing on the side.

Now throw in your celebrities, lets say SAG actors living in Los Angeles thats around 100,000 total or 50,000 male actors who have appeared in some sort of media outlet. They say 80% of SAG actors are not working so lets be generous and say 10,000 male actors. So you're competing with guys with status, looks, and money.

There you go. Simple answer is you're just "average" in the city of big fish. Best you go abroad.

Post: #23

Obviously, hot girls don't want to spend any time with you after one night because your personality sucks.

How about you quit bitching about how self-improvement is hard and drop a datasheet on how to become an Internet billionaire?

Post: #24

Already covered by other guys.

Post: #25

I'd like to come party with you. You let me crash at your place for the weekend and I'll get the plane ticket. If you're telling the truth, we run the same type of game.