Post: #1

I have been tall (6'2) and have always been considered handsome by most people. But I have had moderate-severe acne scars. A fair evaluation of myself from a facial structure would be maybe an 8/10. I'm not Brad Pitt but I have a decent facial structure and in good shape/well dressed.

I have high self confidence and decent game so it never stopped me. But the girls I was getting were always less attractive (like 4s and 5s). Every time I would hit on a 7 or above, I would get the cold shoulder. If it was online dates - I would obviously look better in my photos because of gentle air brushing them - so I would meet 7s, and in person I could see them stare at my skin and the dates would not lead anywhere.

This year - I took an aggressive approach at treating my acne scars. It was actually a lot cheaper than I expected. All in, I spent about $6,000. But you could easily spend twice as much and not see good results. So I am going to give you guys a breakdown of what I did and what impact it had.

First: the impact!
As I mentioned, I have a decent facial structure - but I feel like with the scars, it brought me down to a 5/10 or even worse. My scars were moderate-severe. I had a combination of all types of scars, icepicks, rolling scars, boxcar scars, even several hypertrophic (raised) scars.

After 8 months of working on my scars, I have had an 80-85% improvement in my skin and I believe I will be able to get it to 95% by the end of the year. So right now - my skin is not perfect by any means. But the quality of dates that I am getting has improved dramatically! The 7s and the 8s that were turning their backs on me are very flirty now. Even occasional 9s are very receptive. I recently flirted with an engaged woman who was a solid 9/10 high powered executive and she was very flattered that I am hitting on her in her words "being so good looking". I didn't get these kinds of comments a year ago from women.

I am closing almost every online date I am getting now. Before, I only managed to get 25% of first dates into date #2, now it's 90%+.

For the $6,000 I spent on these treatments - it has made a huge difference in my life.

The treatment:
I followed Acne.org forums on scar treatment and I learned a lot. I had to treat every single different acne scar procedure out there, so if you have a combination of acne scars, this is likely what you have to do as well.

- Infini RF (this is the most expensive treatment, it's radiofrequency with microneedling. It injects your face with ~25,000 needles per treatment and pulses heat to stimulate dermal burns that result into collagen and elastin production. This breaks down boxcar scars and turns them into rolling scars which end up rising gradually from collagen production). For me 3 treatments of Infini resulted in a 40% improvement. This usually costs $1,000 a piece.
- Subcision (they cut underneath the scar with a nokor needle to free up tethering and lift the rolling/boxcar scars). For me, 3 treatments resulted in a 20% improvement for me. These are usually ~$300 a piece
- Bellafill - permanent injectable filler to help level off any scars that are too deep for Infini/Subcision to correct. This is ~$800 a syringe. I needed two injections. Some people might need more if your scars are more severe.
- Vbeam - reduces all redness associated with acne scars (this is $300 a piece, you will need 2 or 3)
- TCA cross - 100% TCA - for spot treating ice pick scars and enlarged pores
- TCA peels - 25 to 30% TCA - for overall texture & pores at the very end

How do you do this in 8 months to a year?
- Alternate between Infini RF & Subcision (with vacuuming) every 3 weeks. This will take about 4 months but will get rid of most of your boxcar scars and rolling scars.
- Immediately after your last subcision treatment heals, start doing TCA cross treatments. These need 6 weeks in between. You will want to do 3 of these as well. These take care of your ice pick scars.
- About two months after your last Infini, get Bellafill filler to take care of rolling scars that are left over
- Continue doing TCA cross until you are happy with how your enlarged pores and ice picks look
- After this, do several medium level depth peels (25-30% TCA for Caucasian skin, lower percentage for darker/Asian skin tone)
- At the very end, after you have done everything - do a series of 3x vbeam vascular lasers to remove all redness in the skin tone. This disintegrates red marks and red blood vessels from the face and leaves your skin one nice even tone.

Disclaimer: I'm not a medical professional, this is a log of my treatment - do your own research! Don't do permanent damage to your face! And always see the very best doctors you can afford to pay for. Don't take short cuts with $$.

Post: #2

Congrats on taking action on something instead of letting it bother you and bitching about it.
Welcome to the forum.

Post: #3

Thanks dude! Been a long time reader but didn't feel I needed to contribute anything until now. I noticed there weren't making people talking about this issue and I know there's going to be several fellas out there with acne scars that are going through the same thing or ignoring it.

Post: #4

djdan what would you recommend for guys with less sever i.e. low to moderate scarring?

Post: #5

(08-08-2017 05:52 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  djdan what would you recommend for guys with less sever i.e. low to moderate scarring?

I can't answer that question without seeing the kind of scars that you have. You can send me a PM with a picture. If you have a combination of all the scars, you will need to follow the same protocol, you would just need less treatments than I did.

Each scar type needs different treatment.

Boxcar scars -> subcision & infini RF (needling with RF)
Rolling -> infini RF if they are not tethered scars or filler (bellafill for longer lasting filler)
Ice pick scars -> TCA Cross
Redness -> VBeam (preferred) or IPL (if it's more brown marks than red/purple)

In general - I do not advise the use of lasers unless it's a Vbeam laser (vascular) for redness or a YAG fully ablative for very surface level scars. The deeper lasers (i.e. CO2) do damage to the fat layers and will leave you looking older.

Post: #6

Great writeup! Now that I finally got braces, this is the next step in my self improvement.

My scars are not as bad yours sound, but they are still the first thing you notice when looking at my face.




So from all your research, you recommend subcision and RF rather than fraxel laser?

In Europe fraxel CO2 and IPL are quite common and easy to find in any big city.
The other methods are way less common and practitioners seem more unprofessional/sketchy.

I would have to take a plane every time, driving prices way up.



I've read great reviews about CO2 lasers making your skin way younger during the first few years. Yet you are not the first one saying it ages you. What is the deal, you look younger short term but age quicker long term?

To be honest most negative reviews seem to be from people trying to sell you other methods.



I'm quite convinced to get 3 to 5 fraxels, then chemical peels and finally fillers to smooth it out.. But I'm still hesitant to pull the trigger. Maybe just skip the fraxel and go for more chemical peels or TCA?

Post: #7

(08-08-2017 03:08 PM)Stallion Wrote:  Great writeup! Now that I finally got braces, this is the next step in my self improvement.

My scars are not as bad yours sound, but they are still the first thing you notice when looking at my face.




So from all your research, you recommend subcision and RF rather than fraxel laser?

In Europe fraxel CO2 and IPL are quite common and easy to find in any big city.
The other methods are way less common and practitioners seem more unprofessional/sketchy.

I would have to take a plane every time, driving prices way up.



I've read great reviews about CO2 lasers making your skin way younger during the first few years. Yet you are not the first one saying it ages you. What is the deal, you look younger short term but age quicker long term?

To be honest most negative reviews seem to be from people trying to sell you other methods.



I'm quite convinced to get 3 to 5 fraxels, then chemical peels and finally fillers to smooth it out.. But I'm still hesitant to pull the trigger. Maybe just skip the fraxel and go for more chemical peels or TCA?

If you have any noticeable indentation (rolling or box scars), TCA peels won't do much and neither will Fraxel.

I had done a hardcore CO2 laser many years ago and a series of 5 fraxels lasers before, all in cost me around $5,500 for those. This was about 7 years ago. I saw maybe a 20% improvement at the most from all these lasers combined and the downtime was much worse. They mostly softened up the edges on the boxcar scars and that was it.

After spending so much money and seeing so little results, I gave up and totally put treating acne scars away for 6 years. It wasn't until I started earning a lot more money recently that I decided to give this another try.

Fraxel is common because it's now mainstream. It's the technology that was new 15 years ago so now everybody has it. It's also really easy to operate, you can teach a monkey to do it. Infini has thousands of potential settings, so the operator is key. I have had a good doctor and I have also had a shitty one (my first treatment). Pay to get the best you can or you will be dealing with a lot of other issues. The bad reviews are because people get the cheapest doctor that will perform the procedure who has limited experience.

Now regarding your question of Fraxel & CO2. You have skin inflamation everytime you do a laser like this. So you will look great for a few weeks or even months. And yes, they do make "some" difference. But upon repeated usage of these lasers, you are literally melting away subcutaneous fat and your face looks thinned out and wrinkles more easily.

CO2 at it's deepest goes 1.5mm into the skin. Something like Infini goes 3.5mm into the skin, so for deeper scars - it does a much better at stimulating collagen. But the radio-frequency pulses stimulate elastin as well, which lasers do not. Elastin is responsible for giving your skin firmness and tightness and reduces/prevents wrinkles.

I can say that now at 29 after all these treatments, my skin looks like I am 22.

Infini isn't the only treatment that I am recommending however. If you just have ice pick scars - it won't do anything for those. You need TCA Cross and Peels. Basically I am suggesting people should see a plastic surgeon or a very reputable dermatologist and definitely not a laser skin spa.

Post: #8

Has anyone tried derma needling at home as a budget option? OwnDoc has some guides and before / afters.

Post: #9

I've lived with my acne scars since my teenage years (I'm 40 now) - although from the description it sounds like yours were worse. I can't really say they've bothered me much for the last twenty years or so, nor felt they got in the way of my sex and romantic life. I really have little idea how I would be rated on my face, other than probably "sort of average" - a bit of a tough guy face, visibly asymmetrical, the acne scars, balding since my mid or late 20s (keeping the popular Jason Statham trim for hair and facial hair, sometimes shaving it all the way down). But I stay fit and muscular and move and speak with confidence and get enough IOIs from attractive women of all ages on the street to think that the acne scars are not much of a hindrance.
Then again, I'm not banging 8s and 9s, so who knows...

Post: #10

(08-09-2017 09:40 AM)polar Wrote:  Has anyone tried derma needling at home as a budget option? OwnDoc has some guides and before / afters.

As someone who has (probably severe) acne scars....I would suggest that you do not fuck around with your health/face and take the cheap option.

You only have one face, and messing it up even further because you can't afford to do it the right way....will only put you in a worse spot.

Save up man.

Post: #11

On the subject of acne not scars. Derms always say diet has nothing to do with it. This is bullshit.

Even at 35 I will get a pimple the day after having a lot of dairy or ice cream. I used to drink several gallons of milk a week as a kid. I noticed the connection as a late teen an cut out all dairy. It worked like a charm. Reintroducing any dairy foods always have me pimples.

It takes about 1-2 months to see the difference and you have to cut out everything. Yogurt. Cheese. Ice cream. Milk. Thankfully there are soy/rice substitutes for all that.

This is an easy thing to test on yourself before the scarring ever happens. I don't know why ever kid it's advised to do it. Oh yes i do. Dairy Farners Association will sue organizations that tell families this. Milk does a body good.

Post: #12

(08-09-2017 09:40 AM)polar Wrote:  Has anyone tried derma needling at home as a budget option? OwnDoc has some guides and before / afters.

Microneedling even @ 2.00mm is nowhere as powerful as needling at 3.5mm with radiofrequency. You will have to do 6-10 treatments to get the effect of one Infini. Since you can only do these treatments once a month, it will take a while to get the results you want.

Post: #13

(08-09-2017 09:53 AM)MikeS Wrote:  I've lived with my acne scars since my teenage years (I'm 40 now) - although from the description it sounds like yours were worse. I can't really say they've bothered me much for the last twenty years or so, nor felt they got in the way of my sex and romantic life. I really have little idea how I would be rated on my face, other than probably "sort of average" - a bit of a tough guy face, visibly asymmetrical, the acne scars, balding since my mid or late 20s (keeping the popular Jason Statham trim for hair and facial hair, sometimes shaving it all the way down). But I stay fit and muscular and move and speak with confidence and get enough IOIs from attractive women of all ages on the street to think that the acne scars are not much of a hindrance.
Then again, I'm not banging 8s and 9s, so who knows...

They didn't bother me a lot either. I am also 6'2, 190 lbs @ 11-12% body fat (decent looking abs).

I did notice girls were staring at my scars when going on dates and they would ask me about my scars frequently. I would have something snarky or funny to say but I got tired of hearing about it and I am now making enough money to afford the treatments. So I figured worst case scenario I waste a few grand, but I was shocked by the improvements.

What was more shocking was the quality of girls that are flirting with me. I would walk up to an 8 or a 9 in a bar that would smile at me from across the room and as soon as I got face to face they would stare at my scars and ask me about them. Sounds sexy but it's not. Online dates, same thing. Filters helped and when I would go out on a date with a hot chick - she would stare and say she didn't see any scars in pictures. No mater how you spin it into positive, you could tell the chicks were disappointed and weren't into me as much as prior.

Now I am only 80% improved, so it's not anywhere near perfect - but I am closing more hot online dates than I ever have in person. And I've been gaming chicks for 10 years - my game did not magically get better in a couple of months.

I have just gotten Invisalign a few days ago - trying to get that perfect Hollywood smile too. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Post: #14

I'm 32 but still get 4-5 pimples a month mostly around my mouth area. Should I wait until I have no acne to get scar treatment?

Post: #15

Thanks for such a detailed answer! There are so many opinions that it's hard to choose.


As you said fraxel and similar techs have been around forever.

The bad side is that they may be antiquated.

The good side is that when choosing a clinic/surgeon you can find hundreds of reviews online. Not all doctors are created equal so it's great to read what previous clients say about them on forums and impartial websites.

For newer technologies usually there is no information about which clinics are good or bad. Plus around here most look very "scammy" with cheap websites, advertisement on facebook, etc.

Post: #16

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

Post: #17

I went through a microdermabrasion treatment and although it may have not smoothed out all my acne scars, it did do a really good job on evening out my skin tone and giving the appearance of less scarring.

I have my second treatment scheduled for Monday and I'm really hoping to see more improvement

Post: #18

Hey DjDan,

I'm 19 and my acne scars are quite bad (some are hypertrophic as well). I went to consultations with a few doctors and they have both said that it will take years of treatment before I even see 30-50% improvement. I'm just wondering if the doctors you went to, said this to you as well? Because whenever I hear this, I just want to throw in the towel.

Regardless, I spoke to one of the main guys on the acne.org forum and sent him pictures of my skin. He mentioned that my scars are moderate-severe but that he's seen much worse. I will do the following plan; subcision w/sculptra wait 1 month then RF needling (alternate 3 times). Then a deep peel or erbium resurfacing followed by HA Filler and some V-Beam laser sessions.

Post: #19

Random...do you mind sharing the name of your doctor?

Post: #20

Great thread DjDan, I have some very light acne along with redness that has been bugging the fuck out of me. I have tried a bunch of products making little progress however I think the routine from acne.org looks promising.

I already have the products but never tried using them in combination. Individually they seem to partly work but then the acne would come back.

Post: #21

Has anyone tried red light therapy for scarring? Red lights between 620nm and 850nm are used for different medical purposes. The higher the wavelength, the deeper the penetration, so higher nm units are used for bone and organ healing, while lower ones are for skin. I'm not sure about acne scarring in particular but they are purported to help with collagen production.

Post: #22

Guys I'm absolutely freaking out right now. I had a nasty pimple on my face so I decided that it was a good idea to pop it with a sterilized needle. Now there's a small hole in my face. It's been almost 3 weeks and it hasn't gotten better. I'm absolutely freaking out right now. I'm seeing the dermatologist on Tuesday, but I just read on the Internet that Retin-A can help with shallow / new scars. Is this true? I really don't want to do any of the scary sounding stuff like chemical peeling, microdermabrasion, etc.

Post: #23

Ive had 2 subcision treatments in these last ~3 months and the way my skin looks now is like night and day compared to before. I also followed the suction/vaccuming regimen in the post op days.

Im currently in India so its only costing me about $150 per treatment for both cheeks.

Gonna go for maybe 2 more subcisions before i move onto another type of procedure.

So far I'd say ive gotten about 60-70% improvement in the depth of my scars, and maybe about 40% overall.

I highly reccomend for anyone who may have scars to have them corrected, the confidence boost os quite honestly surreal.