Post: #1

Has anybody dated a girl using one of these?

I first heard about this from some hippy chick on YouTube, but also heard Dr. Kelly Brogan talk about it on Joe Rogan Experience.

Daysy is a a thermometer that tracks girls' cycles and tells you if they're fertile or not. It's the rhythm method on steroids.





I don't think I need to bring up the negatives of hormonal birth control here.

They claim an amazing effectiveness rating:

Quote:With a Pearl-Index of 0.7, the fertility monitors of Valley Electronics are the leader in natural contraception and family planning.

The Pearl Index is used to report the effectiveness of a certain birth control method.

As an example: if 100 women use a particular birth control method for one year and one woman becomes pregnant, the Pearl Index of this method is 1.0. Birth control pills have a Pearl Index between 0.1 and 0.9, and IUDs range from 0.1 to 2.2.

There are many happy healthy hippy chicks using this, and next time I'm in an LTR I'll look into buying one.

Post: #2

That's smart.

Post: #3

Hope it works and catches on. Birth control doesn't do the western girls any good it seems to me. I also heard it lowers their libido.

Post: #4

Looks interesting.

Post: #5

The biggest flaw of course is operator error.

IUD is completely idiot proof.

Birth control is mostly idiot proof....as long as you take it everyday it's good.

Condoms feel terrible and are not that idiot proof. I had one rip last week I had no idea.

Daysy however...if you miss one day the algorithm gets off.

Is it good for most sluts? No

Is it a worthwhile challenge you could give your girlfriend? 100%. This will not only prevent you from having kids, it'll also put her more in tune with her body. Plus you two will have to communicate about sex and her cycle AND she'll have to get set on a morning routine.

Oh - AND these are FSA/HSA deductible for those of us who have that sweet tax deferred money piling up.

Edit: If I was in an LTR with this I would continue pulling out to get double effectiveness. Save the creampies for a few days a month when she is 0% fertile.

Post: #6

Hippy chick appreciation thread

Post: #7

(08-07-2017 11:05 PM)redbeard Wrote:  They claim an amazing effectiveness rating:

Quote:With a Pearl-Index of 0.7, the fertility monitors of Valley Electronics are the leader in natural contraception and family planning.

The Pearl Index is used to report the effectiveness of a certain birth control method.

As an example: if 100 women use a particular birth control method for one year and one woman becomes pregnant, the Pearl Index of this method is 1.0. Birth control pills have a Pearl Index between 0.1 and 0.9, and IUDs range from 0.1 to 2.2.

They're being dishonest with their Pearl Indices.

The vast majority of the newer contraceptive methods, especially with perfect use, are getting closer and close to 0.1 on the Pearl Index.

The ranges they give are basically lumping all known methods, including older less reliable ones, into one big heap, leading to a false comparison.

In other words, when you compare a Pearl Index of 0.1 to a Pearl Index of 0.7, you can see that that the Daysy method is 7 times less effective than other forms of contraception.

(I'm not supporting hormonal birth control, I'm just saying if you are going to compare methods, it helps to look at honest data. The company is doing number fudging. It doesn't help that I couldn't find any published studies on the Daysy monitor, so their Pearl Index may be a thumbsuck.)

Courtesy of the International Journal of Gynaecology and Obstetrics:

Post: #8

Are the results subject to interpretation?
What happens if she interprets them wrong?

Maybe it's been my poor choice in LTRs, but I tend to notice that a lot of women tend to get stupid about once a month. And during that time, they'll do all manner of reckless shit without regard for consequences. How can you be sure she won't lie to you about her fertility status?

Post: #9

Just get a vasectomy and forget about all the hassle and trusting her.

Forget about 18 years child support.

If you want a kid, they can extract the swimmers no dramas.

Post: #10

Found the study. Daysy hasn't done one, but they play off LadyComp's done in 1998.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9820928

Quote:The Babycomp/Ladycomp (Valley Electronics Ltd., Eschenlohe, Germany) is an electronic device that combines the temperature method and calendar method for planning and preventing pregnancy by identifying the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. In a retrospective clinical trial, the system was tested as a contraceptive aid. A total of 648 women from Germany and Switzerland have participated: 597 women with 10,275 months of use used the device for contraception. Thirty-three unplanned pregnancies were identified, giving a total pregnancy rate of 3.8 use effectiveness according to the Pearl Index. Six method-related pregnancies occurred, producing a method Pearl Index of 0.7. Calculating the cumulative pregnancy rates by life-table analysis, it was found that, after about one year of exposure, the probability of an unintended pregnancy was 5.3% (0.053), after 2 years it was 6.8% (0.068) and after about 3 years of exposure it was 8.2% (0.082). The mean length of the identified fertile period was 14.3 days with a standard deviation of 4.6 days in all cycles reported. The acceptance of the device by the woman and her partner was good. In fact, 21 of the 33 women who became pregnant would still recommend the device for further use (63.6%).

What they're saying is, 597 women used it properly. 33 got pregnant. 6 of them got pregnant by banging on a "green light" day. So, they're ignoring 27 pregnancies where the girls didn't listen.

I think the stats to look at here are that after three years, you've got 8.2% chance of pregnancy. If I was in a serious LTR, I'd definitely take 8.2%, improve it with pulling out, and sleep well at night.

Post: #11

(08-08-2017 07:21 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

How is sterilization not 0.0?

Post: #12

(10-05-2017 12:13 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 07:21 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

How is sterilization not 0.0?

These methods can fail due to:
- poor surgical technique (for example, too loose suturing; suturing the wrong area; etc)
- recanalization (the ability of the tubes to regrow and reconnect)
- engaging in unprotected intercourse too early (a woman should wait until she had definitely gone into the next cycle, a man should wait until his semen analysis confirms sterility)

Post: #13

There's a new app + device out called "Natural Cycles." They claim to be the first rhythm method cleared by the FDA "for use as a digital method of birth control."

Of course I was curious, so I dug into the data and found them to be much more honest about their Pearl Indices.

Source

Quote:Study design

In this prospective observational study, 22,785 users of the application logged a total of 18,548 woman-years of data into the application. We used these data to calculate typical- and perfect-use Pearl Indexes, as well as 13-cycle pregnancy rates using life-table analysis.

Results

We found a typical-use Pearl Index of 6.9 pregnancies per 100 woman-years [95% confidence interval (CI): 6.5–7.2], corrected to 6.8 (95% CI: 6.4–7.2) when truncating users after 12 months. We estimated a 13-cycle typical-use failure rate of 8.3% (95% CI: 7.8–8.9). We found that the perfect-use Pearl Index was 1.0 pregnancy per 100 woman-years (95% CI: 0.5–1.5). Finally, we estimated that the rate of pregnancies from cycles where the application erroneously flagged a fertile day as infertile was 0.5 (95% CI: 0.4–0.7) per 100 woman-years. We estimated a discontinuation rate over 12 months of 54%.

I'm still curious whether or not the subjects are practicing withdrawal as well, as I bet that skews the data a bit.

Post: #14

What about copper IUDs they are supposed to be non-hormonal

Post: #15

(10-28-2018 06:20 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  What about copper IUDs they are supposed to be non-hormonal

From my research it seems copper IUD's are an extremely safe option.

The downside to the copper IUD is that it can cause heavy, intense periods for women.

There's a little bit of chatter out there that this is actually due to either Iron deficiency or Copper-Zinc imbalance. Funny enough, this is why Lizard of Oz suggests OptiZinc for men. There isn't much research behind this, but there are hippy chicks on YouTube who claim Iron and Zinc supplementation helped with their heavy periods.

If I had an LTR that I was trying to keep estrogen and baby free, I would:

1. Get her on copper IUD
2. Experiment with Zinc & Iron supplementation as above
3. Use Natural Cycles as a backup method

Post: #16

Stuff like Copper IUDs and natural cycles, etc work well for LTRs but for random sluts, plates, etc they are boviously not a viable solution. In those cases you have to make sure she is taking pills, use a condom, withdrawal method, vasectomy, etc.

Post: #17

These apps work by telling people not to have sex when the woman is ovulating, which is also the time she is horniest. You might avoid sex with her that time, and she can lie and cheat on you with another man when she is most fertile and horny.

I would not trust any woman with any cycle tracking method who I don’t mind marrying and impregnating. With Pearl, you have to trust your LTR to measure her temperature first thing in the morning, every single morning. With the other method, you have to trust her to enter the correct cycles each time. There is no room for error.

Copper IUDs can be displaced by rough sex and result in pregnancy. Have seen it happen twice to people.

Post: #18

(11-03-2018 10:26 AM)notmyrealname Wrote:  These apps work by telling people not to have sex when the woman is ovulating, which is also the time she is horniest. You might avoid sex with her that time, and she can lie and cheat on you with another man when she is most fertile and horny.

I agree, you should always pounce on your girl during her ovulation window. The point of the ovulation calendar is to make sure you're not nutting in her on fertile days. That way you have back-up in case the IUD fails. You could also use condoms during those days to be extra safe.

Quote:I would not trust any woman with any cycle tracking method who I don’t mind marrying and impregnating. With Pearl, you have to trust your LTR to measure her temperature first thing in the morning, every single morning. With the other method, you have to trust her to enter the correct cycles each time. There is no room for error.

I also agree. Coincidentally, if a girl is not responsible enough to take her pill consistently or measure her temperature, she probably isn't LTR material.

Additionally, I don't want any woman I care about to have to go through the pain of abortion.

As I've gotten older, I've learned to focus more and more on sleeping with quality women who are marriage/mother material.

Outside of abstinence, every birth control method has a failure rate. If you have enough sex, it's possible you'll knock her up.

My policy is that if I knock up my girlfriend, I will wife her up and raise the kid - no matter what the situation. Once you accept this, or go through enough pregnancy scares, you start getting real picky about who you sleep with.

Quote:Copper IUDs can be displaced by rough sex and result in pregnancy. Have seen it happen twice to people.

I have to think that this is chalked up to the 1% failure rate that all birth control methods have, which is why I recommend two forms - IUD and cycle app. You can also pull out, which means you're using THREE methods.

Post: #19

(11-03-2018 11:00 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 10:26 AM)notmyrealname Wrote:  These apps work by telling people not to have sex when the woman is ovulating, which is also the time she is horniest. You might avoid sex with her that time, and she can lie and cheat on you with another man when she is most fertile and horny.

I agree, you should always pounce on your girl during her ovulation window. The point of the ovulation calendar is to make sure you're not nutting in her on fertile days. That way you have back-up in case the IUD fails. You could also use condoms during those days to be extra safe.

Sorry for the late reply, I was trying to figure out how to quote posts from a cell phone. This is a good solution.

Quote:I would not trust any woman with any cycle tracking method who I don’t mind marrying and impregnating. With Pearl, you have to trust your LTR to measure her temperature first thing in the morning, every single morning. With the other method, you have to trust her to enter the correct cycles each time. There is no room for error.

I also agree. Coincidentally, if a girl is not responsible enough to take her pill consistently or measure her temperature, she probably isn't LTR material.

Additionally, I don't want any woman I care about to have to go through the pain of abortion.

As I've gotten older, I've learned to focus more and more on sleeping with quality women who are marriage/mother material.

Outside of abstinence, every birth control method has a failure rate. If you have enough sex, it's possible you'll knock her up.

My policy is that if I knock up my girlfriend, I will wife her up and raise the kid - no matter what the situation. Once you accept this, or go through enough pregnancy scares, you start getting real picky about who you sleep with.

This is a very good point about LTRs. They should be responsible about doing something at the same time every day. However, there is another aspect you may not have considered. The LTR may deliberately ask you to release inside on an ovulation day or falsify the dates of her cycle on the app to become pregnant “by accident”. While you have a good policy to avoid any woman you would not marry, many men do not apply those standards to the women they are involved and could easily run into many difficult and tragic situations if they rely on a woman to use this app as their only form of birth control.

Quote:Copper IUDs can be displaced by rough sex and result in pregnancy. Have seen it happen twice to people.

I have to think that this is chalked up to the 1% failure rate that all birth control methods have, which is why I recommend two forms - IUD and cycle app. You can also pull out, which means you're using THREE methods.

It seems this would be the best solution. Pull out, IUD, and cycle tracking should be more than enough to prevent pregnancy.