Post: #1

First, and perhaps most importantly, there are some ground rules. Before taking a woman out to dinner, first you have to know when is the right time...

The When

1. Never ever do a first date over dinner. If there's no chemistry, it will be an awkward night for both of you, and chances are on your dime. First dates should always be over coffee or drinks, so if there's no interest, either of you can leave quickly and with little investment. Nothing is worse than a long night of awkward conversation over an overpriced meal.

2. Desire cannot be negotiated. If a girl isn't into you, no amount of wining and dining her will change that. She might be happy to enjoy a meal and a glass or wine or six on your dime, but it won't make her want you sexually. I've known guys who have gone on 10+ dinner dates and not even got a peck on the cheek. I laugh when they're like "we're dating!" No, you're not, you're her meal ticket. Literally! You're not dating until there is a sexual relationship.

3. If you don't want some type of LTR, dinner dates send the wrong signals. (Unless it's "I just got off work, I'm starving, meet me at Taco Joint, otherwise I'm just gonna eat all the Triscuits in your cabinet and fall asleep on your couch...")

4. If a woman you're not in a sexual relationship with "demands" you take her out to nice places to "prove you're interested", chances are she's also blowing the bartender. Meaning you'll feed her, get her tipsy, and then she'll go over to his place when the night is over. Sorry. (Be the bartender - "Hank, I just had the best steak! Can I come over? Or are you still playing Playstation?")

The How

That out of the way, wining and dining a woman you're into can be fun. There is nothing like a night out on the town with a beautiful head turning lady in a tight black dress.

Typically a good dinner date is how you seal the deal on an LTR after some makeout sessions, or hopefully sex. A solid dinner date is what takes a hookup to another level.

However, once you take her out on a memorable dinner date, she's going to expect to be more than just a side piece. So, use at your own risk.

This is how...

- Most importantly... do not ask her what she's "in the mood for" or ask her for options. Your job is to lead. I will often surprise my date. ("Where are we going?" "You'll see when we get there, babe.") Nothing is more beta than saying "Hey, I'd think I'd like to take you out, what are you in the mood for? Do you like tacos, or Indian food? Where would you like to go?" Pick a restaurant and go there -- something you enjoy and want to share with her. Women hate to be bombarded with options and forced to make decisions. That's your job. Lead the interaction from start to finish. Pick the restaurant and make it work. If she hates it, who cares, you'll make the most out of it.

- You don't have to go somewhere expensive to have a great time. Just because the bill was high doesn't mean it was fun. Sitting in an overcrowded, expensive restaurant ends up being a night just like any other. If you're looking to escalate the relationship, the experience has to be memorable - not merely expensive.

- My suggestion on a budget is to do an ethnic BYO and pair it with appropriate cocktails (i.e., do a French BYO with a French wine and some Cointreau, or an Asian BYO with saki.) It's cheap and makes you look cultured. For an added bonus, talk a little bit about the history of the drinks, their cultural significance, and about the regions. You can come off like a total boss with a little bit of internet research the night before.

- If you've never been there before, get to know the menu a little before hand, even if its just internet research. If you don't feel like doing that or don't have time, when you get there ask the server this question: "If this were my last meal on Earth, what are three things on the menu would I spend the rest of my life regretting having never tried?" I typically only go to places I've been to, but if I go somewhere new, that's the question I ask the server. If it's a female server, you can run a little bit of game as a DHV. (Side note - watch Gordon Ramsay on Kitchen Nightmares drop some game on a server - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpUCfb7F3g. If you watch this show, Ramsay's server game (and game in general) is epic - he's incredibly kind to servers, but also assertive about the restaurant and his own needs).

- Dress up. Blazer, dress shirt, blue jeans, pocket square, and nice dress shoes. Tell her to wear something hot.

- Table manners. Don't obsess over where to put your elbows, but do the basics if it's a nicer place. Put your napkin in your lap, chew with your mouth closed, treat the server with respect, and eat slowly. Don't be afraid to ask for a clean plate if its a multi-course meal or to request one for your date (without her asking). Be assertive but very polite and friendly. (And don't worry - I served when I was in law school. As long as you tip well and don't act like a douche about it, pretty much any request is fine. I'd rather replace a dude's plate 3 or 4 times and get a great tip than get a $5 on a $205 bill from a customer who didn't ask for anything.)

- Go somewhere there is live music, but not a cover band. Find a steakhouse with a piano player, or a jazz house. Hell, I've done a Mexican restaurant with a Mariachi band. Class it up by ordering martinis, an old fashioned, or something 20s-esque (or if you're somewhere ethnic, appropriate ethnic drinks). There is something awesome about being dressed up nice, listening to live music, and sipping on old fashioned cocktails.

- Go straight alpha and order for her. Start by ordering a few appetizers for the table without asking her input. ("You'll love the [whatever].") This is especially effective at ethnic places where you know the menu. Then ask her what she would like when it's getting time for entrees. When the server comes around, say "She'd like the salmon, medium rare, and I'll have the steak, rare." I remember the first time I did this, that night my date was like "I've never had a guy order for me. It was actually hot."

- Pick up the check. At this point, you've already hooked up, you know she's into you, and you're not just a simp trying to buy her affection. Make this a night she's going to brag to all her friends about - how you went to this cool Cantonese restaurant, ate jellyfish, and then went and drank martinis at a jazz house no one knows about. Be in complete control and order what you want, and be willing to pay for it. It's not very alpha to order a bunch of stuff without her input and then ask her to pay for it. It's very alpha to do whatever you want and then pay for it all.

- No matter how much fun, don't ruin it by then "asking" for exclusivity. ("Babe, I had so much fun last night. We should be exclusive!") As always, let her come to you with that, even if it's what you want. She will.

None of this stuff is necessary for banging girls off Tinder or Bumble. Many of my buddies take them out for tequila shots, cheap appetizers, and get blowjobs liberally. But, if you're looking for an LTR (particularly with a girl who is over 25), a great night out on the town is what makes them fall head over heels for you.

Plus, if you're into her, it ends up being a great night for everyone.

Post: #2

This would have been a good thread, say, ten years ago. But the fact is most girls you meet these days don't deserve to be wined and dined. And I'm a wine guy - check my sig.

You're better off ordering a case of wine and store it at your place, then invite them over.

Zero date bang thread - /thread-28403...#pid541171

So much cheaper, and don't have to pay the restaurant's mark-up. It can still be classy and fun. Get her to help you in the kitchen. If you have a strong frame, get her to undress and wear an apron only.

Point is, women these days need to EARN their wining and dining. You, as a man, must make them work for it.

Post: #3

(08-22-2017 08:40 AM)Tengen Wrote:  This would have been a good thread, say, ten years ago. But the fact is most girls you meet these days don't deserve to be wined and dined. And I'm a wine guy - check my sig.

You're better off ordering a case of wine and store it at your place, then invite them over.

Zero date bang thread - /thread-28403...#pid541171

So much cheaper, and don't have to pay the restaurant's mark-up. It can still be classy and fun. Get her to help you in the kitchen. If you have a strong frame, get her to undress and wear an apron only.

Point is, women these days need to EARN their wining and dining. You, as a man, must make them work for it.

I don't necessarily disagree. Most of the girls you meet in modern times can be had for a few shots at a dive bar and UberEats, or a box of wine at your house (served from a decanter, ohhh, fancy) and some homemade chick parm. None of this is necessary knowledge if you're just looking for a bang, or even a hookup buddy.

However, I will wine and dine a woman sometimes because it's fun for me. The outcome is irrelevant.

In addition, and now we're getting into an entirely different discussion, if you're trying to elevate your social status, it's good to be seen at trendy places around town with hot chicks. Preferably many different ones.

Post: #4

Pre first bang= wine them*

Post first bang = dine them if you feel like theyre good company

*Nothing helps a girl lower her inhibitions like a glass or two of 92pt+ Cabernet

Edit:
This issue isn't one about whether to spend $ on girl or not (its been debated ad nauseum already) but it is a question of good vs bad game. Its pretty much accepted that buying dinner for a girl, especially on a first date, is bad game (for a number of reasons)

Post: #5

(08-22-2017 08:58 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 08:40 AM)Tengen Wrote:  This would have been a good thread, say, ten years ago. But the fact is most girls you meet these days don't deserve to be wined and dined. And I'm a wine guy - check my sig.

You're better off ordering a case of wine and store it at your place, then invite them over.

Zero date bang thread - /thread-28403...#pid541171

So much cheaper, and don't have to pay the restaurant's mark-up. It can still be classy and fun. Get her to help you in the kitchen. If you have a strong frame, get her to undress and wear an apron only.

Point is, women these days need to EARN their wining and dining. You, as a man, must make them work for it.

I don't necessarily disagree. Most of the girls you meet in modern times can be had for a few shots at a dive bar and UberEats, or a box of wine at your house (served from a decanter, ohhh, fancy) and some homemade chick parm. None of this is necessary knowledge if you're just looking for a bang, or even a hookup buddy.

However, I will wine and dine a woman sometimes because it's fun for me. The outcome is irrelevant.

In addition, and now we're getting into an entirely different discussion, if you're trying to elevate your social status, it's good to be seen at trendy places around town with hot chicks. Preferably many different ones.

That is the crux of the matter - wining and dining a girl is for men who have the cash and enjoy doing it. Some of us enjoy going to restaurants and having a great meal - if you combine it with a girl on a date while doing it the Game-savvy way, then it is a big plus. Turning a girl on via dinner dates is no easy feat - and no it is not just your looks and general sex-appeal that do it. I know quite a few guys who sometimes spend 5000$ on a dinner date with expensive wine and cigars and get a peck on the cheek, because they do everything wrong.

Hank has some good stuff on it here.

Post: #6

I can see if it's a few dates in and she's got a decent personality worth spending extended amounts of time with. Unfortunately, THIS alone is increasingly rare these days. But yea, I love telling a bish to put on a little black dress and head out for a night out on the town, but phuck, I haven't met a woman like this in quite some time.

Post: #7

Also, this should go without saying, but make reservations if possible. Nothing sucks more than showing up somewhere and looking totally unprepared. "Oh, I'm sorry, but we're not seating anyone tonight without reservations." Some upscale places require them weeks in advance, believe it or not. (I grew up poor, so I didn't learn any of this shit from my family.)

Funny story: I once showed up to a restaurant with a plate on a whim (a place I just wanted to go close to her house, not really trying to impress her.) They were like "Oh, there's at least a two hour wait unless you have a reservation. Do you have a reservation?" I don't think they wanted to seat us because I was dressed in construction gear.

So, I went onto OpenTable from my phone, and lo and behold, there were reservations available. I made a reservation online, came back to the hostess table, and was like "I have a reservation. For right now." They had no choice but to seat us immediately. Sometimes OpenTable reservations will open up right at the time you're there because diners don't show up.

Case in point, if you're taking a girl out for a date night, make sure to have a reservation if the restaurant takes them. If you screw up, try getting a reservation right then and there from OpenTable.

Post: #8

Bang first, have dinner later that is normally my mindset. Simple and easy. No reservations unless she is your beloved LTR.

But actually I have had dinner and banged for the first time many times, when I feel she already gave IOIs, but not in the typical joint in the center of town. I drive them to a small fishing village out of town and out of their comfort zone, then take them to the local joint where the bullfighting aficionados go, with bull heads all over the walls, for a quick drink, then go to an unpretensious restaurant for an amazing and afrodisiac fish soup, a fresh out of the sea/river fish, and the quite decent and cheap local wine. Then another cognac in a cozy bar by the river, then bang them in the beach or back in my place when she is totally crazy or if it is winter time...this place has perfect logistics, it never fails. It is the whole experience that matters, not the fancy places in themselves. I have banged ladies from all over the world here, including the lovely americans, the waitress already smiles when she sees me coming with a new one.

There is no chance the bartender is fucking them in the places I take them.... Also if you figure she is slutty the food does not matter, what matters is getting her drunk, so anywhere quiet is good, preferably the nearest Indian or Nepalese.

Post: #9

I suppose it's about money and standards.

If you've got more disposable income, you feel you can relax your standards. (But this has probably been debated ad nauseum here already).

On the other hand, your standards will be shaped/hardened by your experience with people (especially women).

To each man, their own. Know where you stand. I know where I do, and that's enough.

Post: #10

Solid posts OP and Post 2.

BTW, ordering for the lady is Point no. 4 of Mike Damone's 5-point plan.

Post: #11

(08-22-2017 08:58 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  However, I will wine and dine a woman sometimes because it's fun for me. The outcome is irrelevant.

Exactly. This is my take. Called my ¨Rococo but I truly enjoy a good glass of wine with a fine lady by my side.

I even got a number from a waitress one time for going to this place so often with different gals, she actually came to me so intrigue about me going there 2 times a week with different girls. I told her I was their psychiatrist

My 2 cents on the wine and dine thing is that you got to have the place in lock down. Knowing the host and greet him with a handshake when you get there is a must on my books.

Also always site beside the girl and not on front. That way to can kino escalate without a fucking table in between.

Great post. I truly enjoy the way you write. Makes me wanna take you for wine and dinner. No homo

Post: #12

(08-21-2017 09:07 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  ...When the server comes around, say "She'd like the salmon, medium rare, and I'll have the steak, rare."

Excellent piece, but for that small bit. Unless the menu says what kind of salmon it is (King, Sockeye, wild caught, etc.) then never, ever order salmon at a restaurant. This includes so-called "Atlantic" salmon. It's all farmed, fatty tasteless garbage you can get at a grocery store and you're being played for a quick and easy profit.

If she's young and attractive, she probably has no idea what she was about to eat, which is yet another reason why it's a good idea to order for her.

Post: #13

When you know she is LTR material...

Post: #14

(08-22-2017 08:40 AM)Tengen Wrote:  This would have been a good thread, say, ten years ago. But the fact is most girls you meet these days don't deserve to be wined and dined. And I'm a wine guy - check my sig.

You're better off ordering a case of wine and store it at your place, then invite them over.

Zero date bang thread - /thread-28403...#pid541171

So much cheaper, and don't have to pay the restaurant's mark-up. It can still be classy and fun. Get her to help you in the kitchen. If you have a strong frame, get her to undress and wear an apron only.

Point is, women these days need to EARN their wining and dining. You, as a man, must make them work for it.

I agree with this. With the exception of one, most women I have gone out with never got passed the coffee date, bar date, or even sporting event date. Those light social settings can often keep even the worst dates interesting. On the contrary, my best friend took a girl out (solid 8) to a top steakhouse, dropped nearly 300 between the two of them, and got nothing out of it other than a kiss.

Post: #15

(09-20-2017 05:50 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 09:07 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  ...When the server comes around, say "She'd like the salmon, medium rare, and I'll have the steak, rare."

Excellent piece, but for that small bit. Unless the menu says what kind of salmon it is (King, Sockeye, wild caught, etc.) then never, ever order salmon at a restaurant. This includes so-called "Atlantic" salmon. It's all farmed, fatty tasteless garbage you can get at a grocery store and you're being played for a quick and easy profit.

If she's young and attractive, she probably has no idea what she was about to eat, which is yet another reason why it's a good idea to order for her.

I actually agree. Farmed salmon is disgusting. Tastes awful and has no real health benefits other than being low calorie. I don't really like the taste of salmon, but I eat it for the health benefits (wild caught, in a can, over a salad). Sushi grade salmon is delicious, though.

When dining out, go with branzino, swordfish, or Chilean sea bass. Rainbow trout is good. If she's basic, lobster or tuna. Tilapia is disgusting.

I generally like lighter fish.

Post: #16

I just signed for an account on this forum, long time follower. Wanted to add a short note on this. Be careful with the girls that you text online and when you invite them to meet they reply with a “great, BABY, should I RESERVE at my favorite restaurant?” For me the words in capital letter already means NEXT. This has been specially truth with EE girls, but I am sure it is a global disease that should be avoided.

Post: #17

The salmon dish "for her" just reminded me of how fish breath can ruin everything.