Post: #1

A little background: somewhat new to the game and don't have an extensive amount of experience. However, I managed to have 10 notches at 28. I generally meet girls in the dance scene and get their numbers after small chit chats. I'd say this method is a hit or miss as maybe 1/10 will lead to a date.

Before the date, I generally try to gather as much info on the girl through fb/twitter/instagram to tailor my conversation for the date. I.e. if I saw that she'd been traveling to X country, I would try to slip that in during the date. I'm pretty good at leading and carrying conversations, so the generally don't know that I've been sniffing around.

In my limited sample size, I noticed that the girls whose date I prepped for extensively usually didn't work out the way I wanted (i.e. didn't lead to sex). My theory is that when I try very hard to mold the conversation around her interests, the psychology is that I'm trying hard to win her validation. Conversely, the times when I didn't stalk the girl, I was more successful in bedding the girl, despite my lack of intel.

Seemed counter intuitive, but I'm wondering if over-preparation can be a bad thing. Any thoughts on this among the vets?

Just to caveat, I'm not socially awkward and pretty talkative, so I'm pretty sure it's not my lack on conversational skill that killed the attraction. I suspect it's the subtle psychological shift that took place when you're the one who's trying hard. I'm only bringing this up for context, not to brag.

Post: #2

I used to be that guy. I still got decent bangs, but I felt like I was working waay too hard for basic bishes. I got tired of feeling like I was 'entertaining' chicks.
It wasn't until recently that I learned to just STFU and let them invest in me. I'm the gotdamn prize, not the other way around. They should be qualifying themselves to you, not the other way around.

This dude touches on a lot of this here

Post: #3

Its good to get intel and know your enemy, but don't let on you've been stalking as it comes across needy and try hard.

Post: #4

(09-13-2017 05:30 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Its good to get intel and know your prey, but don't let on you've been stalking as it comes across needy and try hard.

Quick fix, Rat.

I don't consider it 'stalking', more like 'trust but verify'. Make sure she's not a SIF or some blue haired SJW that's using her old pics.

Post: #5

(09-13-2017 01:53 PM)lawliesugar Wrote:  I suspect it's the subtle psychological shift that took place when you're the one who's trying hard. I'm only bringing this up for context, not to brag.

Your suspicions are correct. Girls can sense neediness leaking like a shark smells a drop of blood. One part per billion is enough to shut down the tingle receptors and turn you into chum

Post: #6

I think another aspect is subconsciously, your conversation is more limited when you have more info. For example, if she had recently been to Greece, then you may not really ask about Greece knowing she's already been there or you already know she travels etc. Thats a bad example, but maybe like where she lives. If you already know where she lives, you probably wouldn't ask her about it which could kill conversations extending into different neighborhoods, where she'd like to live ideally, etc.

Now obviously you could bring up the Greece thing knowing she's been there, but if you mention Greece specifically then she'd know you've been stalking her profile and that's a turnoff (in my opinion). Where as if it came up as a natural extension of the traveling topic, you'd have more of a surprised look and be more inquisitive like where in Greece she went, instead of already knowing based on the pictures she posted. You may be a pro at asking questions you already know the answer too, but subconsciously it's much better to ask questions you don't know and you'll have better body language reactions.

Post: #7

I'll check out a girl's FB profile if I have it before dating her. On more than one occasion it has given me some major red flags, and I just called off the date before it began. No point wasting time or money. On the other hand, some positive stuff on a girl's FB profile is an attraction trigger to get to know her more, and I bring up related topics in the date without telling her where I got the info from. The key is to be subtle and bring up things in the form of a question, instead of stating specific facts about her that I wouldn't know unless I checked her profile first. Girls check your's out all the time, trust me.

Post: #8

Recently I approached a girl in a club, got her number. She asked for my facebook and added me there. After a quick scan of her profile, I noticed that she is a single mom. I deleted her number. A 5-minute effort saved me my money and time.

Post: #9

I see nothing bad about it. Sometimes you can notice something off about the person and save yourself dissapointment.

Post: #10

(09-14-2017 05:43 AM)dies irae Wrote:  Recently I approached a girl in a club, got her number. She asked for my facebook and added me there. After a quick scan of her profile, I noticed that she is a single mom. I deleted her number. A 5-minute effort saved me my money and time.

Ahahahahahaha, you are cold, bruv!

Post: #11

Great responses so far guys!

So what's the healthy balance here? I'm thinking a quick profile check is prudent since you can quickly weed out the sloppy drunks and single moms (if that's a deal-breaker for you). But anything more and you're running the fine line of knowing too much which puts some subliminal restraints in your ability to "naturally" discover the girl.

I agree that girls are generally more sophisticated in detecting these supplicating or validation-seeking behaviors, so I will make it a point to not over-research a girl's online presence in the future. Instead, I should be focusing more on cultivating high-status behaviors to get the girl to chase and qualify themselves to me.

Post: #12

If you met her online, a short 1 minute stalking can be amazing to check how she really looks like (the pictures on her dating profile will always be the best ones, the ones on facebook she filters much less).

Anything more than this quick check up will be trying to hard. Even if she doesn't subconsciously catch it, you will know it and that may affect your behavior.

Specially for OP, now that you started to think that this makes you lose notches, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Post: #13

(09-13-2017 05:30 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Its good to get intel and know your enemy, but don't let on you've been stalking as it comes across needy and try hard.

Why do you view women as your enemy? That's a terrible mindset that's surely holding you back in life...

Post: #14

A quick check Is generally ok. It lets you see if they're degenerates and catch some red flags before you waste time/money on going out with her. Absolutely nothing more than that however. Besides the fact that it's going to destroy you coming off natural, it's just way too much energy dedicated to the girl at that point. After all, you've got her or are about to get her on a date, why do you care about anything farther than just obvious red flags? At best it'll only be a waste of your time: at worst it'll make you far more invested and nervous than you need to be.

Post: #15

Here's what I do, check the profile, see if there's an IG that's public, and scope that out (obviously as mentioned make sure she isn't a SIF or something weird).

Have her send you a selfie via text to confirm.

You can check her FB by phone number sometimes or by first name and her job or school.


I used to do that alot, now to be honest, I don't give a fuck, it's more fun finding shit out in person.

Liking all the shit she likes or leading conversations with intel like that can be stale and boring (because you know what her reaction will be).

It's okay to disagree on shit and have your own shit you like (chicks dig that).



TL;DR - Use social media intel to make sure she isn't a SIF or weird (at the most).

Post: #16

(09-14-2017 12:10 PM)travolta Wrote:  

(09-13-2017 05:30 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Its good to get intel and know your enemy, but don't let on you've been stalking as it comes across needy and try hard.

Why do you view women as your enemy? That's a terrible mindset that's surely holding you back in life...

Just an expression dude, chill x

Post: #17

(09-13-2017 01:53 PM)lawliesugar Wrote:  A little background: somewhat new to the game and don't have an extensive amount of experience. However, I managed to have 10 notches at 28. I generally meet girls in the dance scene and get their numbers after small chit chats. I'd say this method is a hit or miss as maybe 1/10 will lead to a date.

Before the date, I generally try to gather as much info on the girl through fb/twitter/instagram to tailor my conversation for the date. I.e. if I saw that she'd been traveling to X country, I would try to slip that in during the date. I'm pretty good at leading and carrying conversations, so the generally don't know that I've been sniffing around.

In my limited sample size, I noticed that the girls whose date I prepped for extensively usually didn't work out the way I wanted (i.e. didn't lead to sex). My theory is that when I try very hard to mold the conversation around her interests, the psychology is that I'm trying hard to win her validation. Conversely, the times when I didn't stalk the girl, I was more successful in bedding the girl, despite my lack of intel.

Seemed counter intuitive, but I'm wondering if over-preparation can be a bad thing. Any thoughts on this among the vets?

Just to caveat, I'm not socially awkward and pretty talkative, so I'm pretty sure it's not my lack on conversational skill that killed the attraction. I suspect it's the subtle psychological shift that took place when you're the one who's trying hard. I'm only bringing this up for context, not to brag.

It is stalking only if women were more valuable than you. Look them up!!!

Post: #18

Oh cool, you need coffee in the morning. Oh cool, picture of you on the beach somewhere. Oh cool, motivational quote about your run. Oh cool, picture of food.

Once you've read one girl's Facebook profile, you've read them all, really...

Post: #19

(09-13-2017 09:27 PM)True Balla Wrote:  Now obviously you could bring up the Greece thing knowing she's been there, but if you mention Greece specifically then she'd know you've been stalking her profile and that's a turnoff

The prior-information thing is what Bill Murray used in Groundhog Day. That was presented for a reason, which is, knowledge is power. Of course, to exploit that, he had to broaden his interests into avenues he probably didn't really like (french poetry) so it's insincere and manipulative, but assuming the info you learn exposes genuine points of connection, wouldn't you want to know?

Also, don't fool yourself into thinking women don't do this too. In their mind it's a background check.

Post: #20

(09-14-2017 07:00 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(09-13-2017 09:27 PM)True Balla Wrote:  Now obviously you could bring up the Greece thing knowing she's been there, but if you mention Greece specifically then she'd know you've been stalking her profile and that's a turnoff

The prior-information thing is what Bill Murray used in Groundhog Day. That was presented for a reason, which is, knowledge is power. Of course, to exploit that, he had to broaden his interests into avenues he probably didn't really like (french poetry) so it's insincere and manipulative, but assuming the info you learn exposes genuine points of connection, wouldn't you want to know?

Also, don't fool yourself into thinking women don't do this too. In their mind it's a background check.

Honestly, I wait for the second date. If I struggle for a conversation on the first date then Ill look stuff up before the second to secure the bang. Just depends on your style, types of conversations, etc.

I actually get a lot of times "I saw on your insta you travel a lot" and I just take it from there and reciprocate sometimes. But there's also been plenty of situations where natural game woulda helped more too.

Post: #21

I think I'm beginning to see that my original question was a symptom of why I'm not successful with girls, not the root issue. The harsh truth that came out of this reflection was that I didn't feel high status with certain type of girls so I needed to stalk them to gain leverage.

While gathering intel is not a bad thing, channeling low status behaviors is a one-way ticket to blue-balls land. The thing is that I'm fairly well-versed with the whole cultivating high status literature and movement. As the saying goes, it's one thing to know, but another to truly internalize.

I'm fairly comfortable with 6s and even 7s who, for whatever reason I find inferior to me. But it's the leap to 8s that I find myself struggling with. Would appreciate any insight from those who have faced and triumphed over this "next-level plateau" dilemma.

Post: #22

Reverse image search and check facebook to see they aren't SIFs, as far as getting info to use against her I find it easier to do just by screening her in a conversation and reading between the lines.

Post: #23

(09-15-2017 03:20 PM)lawliesugar Wrote:  I think I'm beginning to see that my original question was a symptom of why I'm not successful with girls, not the root issue. The harsh truth that came out of this reflection was that I didn't feel high status with certain type of girls so I needed to stalk them to gain leverage.

While gathering intel is not a bad thing, channeling low status behaviors is a one-way ticket to blue-balls land. The thing is that I'm fairly well-versed with the whole cultivating high status literature and movement. As the saying goes, it's one thing to know, but another to truly internalize.

I'm fairly comfortable with 6s and even 7s who, for whatever reason I find inferior to me. But it's the leap to 8s that I find myself struggling with. Would appreciate any insight from those who have faced and triumphed over this "next-level plateau" dilemma.

This was my experience, basically...

When I first started out, I didn't even try for the 8s. I spent a lot of time gathering intel, and sending thoughtful well tailored messages over OkCupid, hoping to get a date with a 6.

Then, when I'd finally go on a date (with a 6), much of the conversation would be about me trying to qualify myself to her. "I'm a lawyer, I do all this cool stuff, I drive a cool car, I go to cool concerts, I travel, and people generally think I'm cool." Basically, trying to slip in "cool stuff" any time that I could. I would also try and do the same thing you're doing and inject stuff from her Facebook, or be like "I saw on your profile that you went Greece. That seemed so cool!" It usually failed.

Gradually I got better at it, and wouldn't even bother to read profiles. I'd send out canned messages to any decent looking girls and try and line up in person dates. No need to look at the profile, just find a canned message and send it out to like 50 chicks.

Once the dates came, the key was to become a person of higher value.

Over time, I've found that the secret recipe is this...

- Be a bit mysterious. "What do you do for a living?" "I'm a fighter pilot." "Really?" "Really." "Are you serious?" [change of subject] I don't let her know what I do for a living for awhile into the conversation, if at all. You must keep your frame with this - no matter how hard she tries to get you to give her a straight answer, don't. "Why do you keep changing the subject?" "Because what you're asking me about is boring. Let's talk about something interesting. Like punk rock." (said with a smirk)

- Similarly, stop talking about yourself so much. A big mistake I made was waiting for an opening in the conversation to tell her how cool I am. "Oh, you traveled to Greece? Well I traveled to Thailand and did blah blah blah." If you're talking about yourself too much, you're basically trying to qualify yourself to her. Instead, send the message (subtly) that you're trying to glean enough information to determine whether she's worthy of you.

- Issue commands. "Tell me more about that." "Grab me a drink while you're up." "Do a shot with me." "Hand me a napkin." "Let's get out of here." If she balks, don't back down, instead act like she's weird for not doing it. It puts her on the spot.

- Pregnant pauses. A lot of times when there is a gap in a conversation, you'll rush to try and fill it in so it's not awkward. Let her fill in the pregnant pauses. Otherwise it seems like you're desperate to keep the conversation going. Make her put in the effort to keep the conversation going with you.

- If you're out at a restaurant or bar, game the staff a little bit. Be polite, charming, and charismatic. "Server: Hi, I'm Melanie and I'll be taking care of you tonight." "Hi Melanie. Darling, let me ask you this question. If this were my last meal on Earth tonight, what would you tell me to order?" Bring the server / bartender in as though they were your wing (without being overbearing or annoying). Do not ever be rude to a server or bartender.

- Similarly, if you're out with a group of people, same rules apply. Be charming and charismatic with her friends, like they're all part of an inside joke. Keep in control of the conversation by being interested in it, and saying stuff like "Tell me more about that." "Why did you do that?" "Then what happened?" Let everyone else talk more than you. Even though they feel they're in control because they're doing most of the talking, you actually are because they're talking to you, and trying to get you to understand how cool / funny / sad / whatever their story is.

- Posture is everything. Make eye contact. Take up as much possible space as you can. Manspread, and grab an extra chair just so you can have your arm out. Lean back, not into the conversation. You own the room.

- Do not touch your face, play with your hands, fake laugh (especially at your own jokes - do not ever laugh at your own jokes), look down, or smile too much. Not doing these things on a date is probably the most important thing. Just be very relaxed.

- Being bold is always better than being timid. Do not ever apologize for anything ever. If she gets pissed, laugh it off and act like she's weird. If you break frame for any reason, you're toast. Her being pissed at you for being a "jerk" is way better than being a supplicating beta.

Once you do all this stuff, you're a guy who "gets it." You're the type of guy who 8s and 9s feel comfortable around, just like the natural alphas they grew up banging.

Hotter girls are way more fun to hang out with. I find that they are way easier going, and there are very few men who "get it", so your actual competition is lower than the 6 who has every beta male sending her fucking emojis and stories about how his cat did this funny thing.

Post: #24

Just screen captured the last post by Hank Moody. It's like a cheat sheet for when you are on a date, excellent advice!

Post: #25

While it can be fun and useful to scope out her interests before the first meet, I find it to be more valuable to screen out SIFs. See if she's got pics hosted anywhere (ig, fb, etc.)

No full-body shots, hidden stomach or everything is strangely angled? You're probably in trouble.