Post: #1

This is a recommendation for Scott Adams' new book, Win Bigly - Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter. While it ostensibly is a history of Donald Trump's election and Scott Adams' observation and role in it, it really is a case study in persuasion which is why I am posting it in the Game forum and not Politics.

First I recommend this book and his stuff that will add to your game. I have read a lot of books on persuasion including Cialdini's Influence and Pre-Suasion and this is up there with those, to some extent. While those books are good and Cialdini includes solid examples to explain academic research, I found my self better understanding those principles by reading this book.

For example, one of the key persuasion techniques Cialdini lists is contrast. He gives the story of how responsible people approved the Watergate break-in. G. Gordon Liddy was tasked with coming up with the plan. On two previous occassions he came up with some seriously crazy shit that the committee rejected. The actual break-in was downright mild in comparison, which is why they approved it.

Adams says to be persuasive present your ideas in the context of alternatives that are clearly worse and frame the alternatives as bad. He's not writing about game, but he is game aware and you can export this to game. For example, "Baby, come meet me for a drink and you might just meet the man of your dreams, or are you going to stay home and watch TV and binge eat ice cream and waste your life away."

Another technique is if someone is treating a small issue as a big problem, remind them what a big problem actually looks like.

A related application is to participate in activities in which you excel, and are better than others by comparison. So while its good to go dancing or kareoke for personal growth, if you don't do those things regularly then don't expect good results. But if you are an accomplished tennis player, trying to meet women in tennis circles would likely be more fruitful. And remember, Scott Adams is not the best looking guy in the world, so what he is talking about here is how to obtain an advantage with everything else being equal.

Another principle from the book is that visual persuasion is the strongest. He gives several examples from the election. In game, the more you can paint a picture or use descriptive language the better. "Picture this . . . ."

He also talks a good bit about why some of this stuff works. For example, the common phenomenon of hamstering and the related technique of offering plausible deniability is a form of cognitive dissonance. Basically we often make decisions for emotional reasons or to avoid upsetting the stories we tell ourselves, like "I am not a whore." In seduction, if you spike attraction or get a girl horny she will tend to make emotional decisions. Scott Adams says you can be persuasive by offering people a a "fake because" or a reason to do something. Ultimately it tends to works because of the psychological concept of cognitive dissonance.

And men are not immune to it. You see a nice pair of tits and you rationalize wasting your time talking to a bimbo. Or you go to a car dealership and the salesman has you sit in the car that is beyond your budget because they want to emotionally hook you on more so you will sell yourself.

So this is a good book to learn some principles of persuasion. Cialdini's books are better in a text book way, and Adams doesn't offer much new ground if any, but I read those books and enjoyed them and still benefited from this book. If you haven't read those, reading this book will make you want to read them imho. The book is accessible and goes through Scott's experience with the election as teaching points in persuasion.

One thing to note is Adams is a bit egocentric and slightly dismissive of Republican/conservative/Trump values. He even changed his prediction twice. But he is fairly candid about these things so I don't hold it against him. If you buy this book solely for the election history, you might come away disappointed. If you buy this book to get a practical application of some high level persuasion techniques you'll be pleased.

Post: #2

I'll gladly listen to what this guy says about Game.

Post: #3

The book is not about game but rather persuasion and the election

Post: #4

I enjoyed WIN BIGLY immensely. This book has the potential to change your life.

Adams got some hate on the forum during the election ramp-up, but if anything, his Persuasion Filter model for understanding Trump has been vindicated since the election, as the arguments in Win Bigly show. (Or he's persuaded me of that)

The book is written in a way so that you can apply the ideas of persuasion to your life. The case of Trump is just a thread throughout the book to illustrate the principles.

I also liked his previous book, HOW TO FAIL AT ALMOST EVERYTHING ..., which I recently reread. It deals with how to use systems rather than goals to succeed.

Related: This weekend I read Ed Latimore's book: NOT CARING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK IS A SUPERPOWER. Fantastic, with lost of actionable, manosphere-friendly advice and insights.

Post: #5

(11-20-2017 10:49 AM)Hypno Wrote:  The book is not about game but rather persuasion and the election

Same difference. Anyone with a business background knows that most of what people on here call "game" is just sales skills set in the context of seduction.

If you know one it's not hard to transfer those skills over to the other area. I dare anyone on here to find a successful salesman who does not fuck.

Post: #6

(11-20-2017 02:38 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Same difference. Anyone with a business background knows that most of what people on here call "game" is just sales skills set in the context of seduction.
If you know one it's not hard to transfer those skills over to the other area. I dare anyone on here to find a successful salesman who does not fuck.

There are different types of sales depending on your product. Same with seduction game... if your goal is a ONS, vs a STR, vs LTR, it all changes how you sell yourself.

The more I think about what your saying here... the more I can see it's true. This might be one of the reasons I generally suck at online stuff like Tinder (marketing), but rock at face to face interactions. Put me in front of a woman and I can close like a boss. Force me to market myself and I wind up doing a bellyflop.

Post: #7

(11-20-2017 02:38 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 10:49 AM)Hypno Wrote:  The book is not about game but rather persuasion and the election

Same difference. Anyone with a business background knows that most of what people on here call "game" is just sales skills set in the context of seduction.

If you know one it's not hard to transfer those skills over to the other area. I dare anyone on here to find a successful salesman who does not fuck.

Funny enough but there are a lot of claimed sales people on here who disagree. I see a direct correlation. All the guys that were good at sales were good at snaring lizards. They understood the numbers game, always assume the sale and had a positive mindset. I would daresay that those who can't, are not true salesmen.

Post: #8

Good review, thanks for putting it together. I think I'll pick up the book.

FWIW took me awhile to adjust to Scott Adam's voice, but once I was listening to what he was saying, he makes a lot of good points from a perspective few have.

Post: #9

I also read "How to Fail at Everything and Still Succeed" is also good and I would recommend it but that one has less application to game.

Post: #10

(11-21-2017 12:06 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 02:38 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 10:49 AM)Hypno Wrote:  The book is not about game but rather persuasion and the election

Same difference. Anyone with a business background knows that most of what people on here call "game" is just sales skills set in the context of seduction.

If you know one it's not hard to transfer those skills over to the other area. I dare anyone on here to find a successful salesman who does not fuck.

Funny enough but there are a lot of claimed sales people on here who disagree. I see a direct correlation. All the guys that were good at sales were good at snaring lizards. They understood the numbers game, always assume the sale and had a positive mindset. I would daresay that those who can't, are not true salesmen.

Emphasis on "successful".

Post: #11

There are a half dozen components to game - inner confidence, outer confidence, sales/persuasion, friendly vibe, etc.

So if you are good at sales/persuasion it helps, but like a flat tire on a Ferrari if you don't have a mimimum level of competence in these other areas you wont' get far.

Aside from Neil Strauss' gook Game, the best thing I have read was Cialdini's books, especially his first book, Influence. Adams doesnt' really cover new ground here, he just discusses how to apply those principles. Its almost better to start with this book and then read Cialdini's Influence.

Post: #12

(11-21-2017 08:12 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  Emphasis on "successful".

I feel you. If you are not a successful sales person then you aren't a sales person because anyone can be any field but it doesn't make them competent at it. How would you define a successful sales person? Can it be determined by numbers in your opinion or is based on percentages?

Post: #13

(11-21-2017 06:02 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:12 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  Emphasis on "successful".

I feel you. If you are not a successful sales person then you aren't a sales person because anyone can be any field but it doesn't make them competent at it. How would you define a successful sales person? Can it be determined by numbers in your opinion or is based on percentages?

A successful salesman is someone who keeps his job, if he wants it. Even if he isn't hitting his goals, he's good enough to hang on through good and bad times, and his company knows not to let go of him. Some years are up, some are down. But most of all, he stays in the game, and is an eager and welcome participant.

Post: #14

(11-22-2017 08:20 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 06:02 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:12 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  Emphasis on "successful".

I feel you. If you are not a successful sales person then you aren't a sales person because anyone can be any field but it doesn't make them competent at it. How would you define a successful sales person? Can it be determined by numbers in your opinion or is based on percentages?

A successful salesman is someone who keeps his job, if he wants it. Even if he isn't hitting his goals, he's good enough to hang on through good and bad times, and his company knows not to let go of him. Some years are up, some are down. But most of all, he stays in the game, and is an eager and welcome participant.

Can it be quantified by some numbers? Saying keeping one's job is very vague, no?

Post: #15

Two conversation tips from Win Bigly:

1. When someone wants to talk about their health problems, briefly express your sympathy and change the subject. Otherwise they'll come to associate you with the negativity of their health problems. I assume this applies to negative topics in general.

2. When you meet someone new, ask about their favorite vacation. This gets them experiencing positive feelings and they'll end up associating this feeling with you.

Post: #16

Just finished the e-version of this book on Kindle. Can't recommend it enough for anyone.

Post: #17

(11-21-2017 11:56 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Aside from Neil Strauss' gook Game, the best thing I have read was Cialdini's books, especially his first book, Influence. Adams doesnt' really cover new ground here, he just discusses how to apply those principles. Its almost better to start with this book and then read Cialdini's Influence.

After reading Cialdini's book, it was very clear where Neil Strauss got some of his ideas like social proof etc. Neil himself recommends Cialdini's book.

Thanks for the review. If the book is not much different than Cialdini's, then I think I will pass, and read another book.

Post: #18

It's way different than cialdini.

Post: #19

I know Adams has cash, and that the girl is wearing quite a bit or makeup, but don't ever think you can't do it. Look at that picture, and then look again. Listen to the way Adams talks (and I like the guy, but just saying), have a laugh, then look back at the picture.

YOU can do it.

Post: #20

(11-22-2017 03:38 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 08:20 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 06:02 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 08:12 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  Emphasis on "successful".

I feel you. If you are not a successful sales person then you aren't a sales person because anyone can be any field but it doesn't make them competent at it. How would you define a successful sales person? Can it be determined by numbers in your opinion or is based on percentages?

A successful salesman is someone who keeps his job, if he wants it. Even if he isn't hitting his goals, he's good enough to hang on through good and bad times, and his company knows not to let go of him. Some years are up, some are down. But most of all, he stays in the game, and is an eager and welcome participant.

Can it be quantified by some numbers? Saying keeping one's job is very vague, no?

No need to be at the top of you're field, just knowing more than the usual peasant is more than enough but to be precise when, as a salesman, you have objectives to reach, good salesman exceed them and great salesman surpass from far without breaking a sweat.
A successful salesman can go anywhere and sell anything to anyone, kitchens, piece of furniture, paper, paper cup or whatever he want, they're respected by professionals and called to form other salesmen and have huge networks of shop owners who can back them up anywhere they go.





To the extreme, salesmen are like pimps, they have unusual insights on the human brain backdoors and how know exactly how to use them, let them start the conversation and you'll see people getting stripped of their savings live & direct and it could even be you if you're not protected (used to it) because the only barrier to this is the seller morality.
I won't going further on the subject because it involves NLP and other stuff but Scott Adams give you way more than you can even grasp in his books and blog posts, more than reading his books you need to enter his world.

Post: #21

Noted. In one of my gaming trips to the local bookstore , I will check the book and decide whether to read or not.

(11-22-2017 10:26 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  It's way different than cialdini.

Post: #22

Bump

I'm only one chapter in but.....yup. This is a good one.

Post: #23

(11-22-2017 11:18 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  I know Adams has cash, and that the girl is wearing quite a bit or makeup, but don't ever think you can't do it. Look at that picture, and then look again. Listen to the way Adams talks (and I like the guy, but just saying), have a laugh, then look back at the picture.

YOU can do it.

Awesome way to look at it Kid Twist.

Reading and listening to SA over the 2015-2016 election season (combined with some coincidental work mentors) was a huge influence on my own persuasive skills, he is really spot-on with his advice about persuasion. I can still point to things I do that I got from him, but at the same time, once you learn it and do it a bit, it becomes an unshakeable habit and you wonder wtf you were doing before.

Adams really believes in himself, and if you read his autobiography, he employs a lot of mental tricks and self-gaming to keep that confidence going.

I will note however...

"I'll gladly listen to what this guy says about Game."

Adams is literally rich and famous - published daily in hundreds of newspapers. He's not exactly an aging dude down at the local who swooped a young 10 by sheer force of personality. All the more reason to get your mission in order. I'm actually most impressed by the fact that he got together with this woman while he was being blacklisted for writing positive things about Trump...nothing like a little badboy cred I guess.

Post: #24

(11-23-2017 04:18 AM)blck Wrote:  To the extreme, salesmen are like pimps, they have unusual insights on the human brain backdoors[/url] and how know exactly how to use them

The second link you posted is an uncredited knock-off of Cialdini's six types of persuasion (with likability replaced with "emotions"), but it's worth noting that his stuff is scientifically validated and also easy to deploy.

I advise to anybody on the board - next time you need to convince someone of something, break your possible arguments down across those six columns, and argue the one or two that are most relevant. Forget being "logical," just try arguing repeatedly in the form of those one or two types. It's amazing to see how effective they can be on people, even those who seem "rational" and especially those who are obviously irrational.

Likewise, when hearing out an argument, try to abstract it away into an index of which methods are being used. I've noticed lots of people tend to lean on one or two types as their go-to, and once you recognize that, some people just turn into empty suits in your eyes.

Two other notes:

• As far as persuasion methods to hone, work hard on your "likability" (i.e. charisma and game) for your career. It's probably the most effective well of persuasion you can directly control, and it is most useful when you aren't doing a great job or otherwise need a finger on the scale. Don't make a mistake I've seen others make and have made myself in thinking that doing "good" work and having "good" arguments is going to keep you employed, keep you off the layoff list, or get you that referral you need to make a big move.
• As far as methods to protect yourself against, try to build a mental index of times you've been bamboozled and which methods were effective at doing so. I've found it useful to be very aware of when I'm being influenced by reciprocation, consistency bias/commitment tendency and by social proof. I don't find myself very susceptible to likability and authority, probably partly why I haven't developed those methods myself as much as I should have.
  

Post: #25

^ finally, everyone (everyone) should read this post from our pal MikeCF on Benjamin Franklin's rhetorical methods (most of it is a long-form and very funny instructional quotation of BF). This combined with the Cialdini/Adams methods can turn someone from a high-school-debate-geek kind of rhetorical bully into a charming and effective persuader where everyone feels smarter and reassured for having talked with you.

http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2011/0...d-nlp.html

It really. works.