Post: #1

I was thinking of buying Tom's infield videos, but then I read that he made fake videos and had a fight with Krauser or something.


I'm wondering if it's worth buying the in-field footage for such a high price anyway.




Thanks guys.

Post: #2

Who's Tom Torero?

Post: #3

Does not.

Post: #4

Tom is a mega beta divorcee dressed up in a leather jacket, selling a spam approach product with the help of actresses.

Roosh is a political figure of our time.

Post: #5

Tom infields are probably fake. He has some good content though. Just look at his YouTube channel and see whether you like what he says.

Post: #6

Tom Torero teaches the London Daygame Model, which is a structured direct daygame method. Roosh teaches a structured indirect daygame model in comparison.

Of all the gurus out there, Torero and Krauser have given me the most useful daygame information by far. You don't have to buy Torero's infield product (Stealth Seduction, right? I have it. It's nice, but a beginner should start by learning from the free videos on his YouTube channel)

Yes, he had a scandal with hiring an actress a few years back (IIRC it was a kiss close vid, he wanted to re-enact something that really did happen). He has more than made up for it by providing the most useful, no-nonsense advice you can possibly get on the topic of daygame. From what I can tell based on my experience daygaming in real life, his infields are all very realistic. He has many free clips on his YouTube channel that you can compare yourself to.

Don't spend money on any PUA products just yet. Take advantage of the plethora of free content out there.

Post: #7

Sounds like marketing to me.

Post: #8

I agree, It does sound like marketing.

It's nonsense to call what that Torro guy does "Direct" game. There is nothing direct about it. It's a load of nonsense.

Direct game doesn't need any sort of blueprint or models. The theory behind it can be written on a cocktail napkin and it can be implemented and completed in about 15 seconds.

You ever ate some really bad thai food and had to drive home squeezing your ass together so you don't shit yourself, then you get stopped at every red light and you finally get home, and the mailman is at your front door smiling and wanting to ask how you've been and what you did that day and what you're doing that weekend, and you just want to take a shit and for him to disappear. Yea, well you are about to pay 200 dollars to become that mailman.

Post: #9

@Linux, you gotta give Tom Torero credit though, he is a smooth talker and is neither tall, dark, or handsome unlike so many of the other PUA guru's on YouTube. While he seems to be a natural extrovert I must say though that we can all learn a bit from his rambling style and ability to make girls interested in some of the most nonsensical topics, for example this video of him complementing the girl on her walk and talking about weather.



I myself am too shy to run after girls in the middle of the street like this guy but I would damn sure be happy if I could ever get to his level.

Post: #10

@LINUX: You're saying gaming like Tom will make women view you as a nuisance? In cases where a girl is in a huge rush somewhere, that can be the case (my experience daygaming in NYC means I run into this situation often), but many girls you see out on the street are just casually walking around and not in a rush. Even ones who are intent on heading somewhere have a few minutes to spare, which means you can go for a solid number if your game is on point.

Post: #11

(12-07-2017 08:27 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  Who's Tom Torero?

Some guy who did a fake infield a few years ago. All I know is that he's a friend of Krauser.

Post: #12

(12-08-2017 04:39 PM)MathGuy Wrote:  Tom Torero teaches the London Daygame Model, which is a structured direct daygame method. Roosh teaches a structured indirect daygame model in comparison.

Of all the gurus out there, Torero and Krauser have given me the most useful daygame information by far. You don't have to buy Torero's infield product (Stealth Seduction, right? I have it. It's nice, but a beginner should start by learning from the free videos on his YouTube channel)

Yes, he had a scandal with hiring an actress a few years back (IIRC it was a kiss close vid, he wanted to re-enact something that really did happen). He has more than made up for it by providing the most useful, no-nonsense advice you can possibly get on the topic of daygame. From what I can tell based on my experience daygaming in real life, his infields are all very realistic. He has many free clips on his YouTube channel that you can compare yourself to.

Don't spend money on any PUA products just yet. Take advantage of the plethora of free content out there.

How valuable would you say is the information in stealth seduction?


Thanks.

Post: #13

Look. Why would you support one thats been cought faking videos before? how many infields are free on youtube?
If you like direct daygame, then check out Krausers material, he's got years of blogposts.

Post: #14

This professional PUA shit is too much.

Read The Game, read Roosh's books, and read Mystery Method. There are a few other good books on Amazon, like the one by W. Anton.

Once you've got the basics down, it's just a matter of trial and error. Go talk to chicks and try and bang them. Don't be a schlub. The end.

Post: #15

It still baffles me that Torrero faked an Infield. Truly a regrettable mistake... but it doesn't take away from his brilliance. He's the scientist of Daygame where his background as a teacher really shows. When he brakes down a concept to the core, he makes it really easy unlike a natural that cannot verbalize this shit since it's ingrained in them. Along with Roosh and Juggler, truly the trio that helped be that sexual guy, even while being broke like a Bum

Post: #16

I thought you were talking about this guy

Post: #17

Took a look at the guy just now. He's weird and awkward as f*. How is he a coach in this pickup scene? So weird.

Post: #18

@Treatmentgroup: It's essentially a bunch of infield videos or audio recordings that show realistic daygame interactions, coupled with popups of what the tactics used are at each point like "DHV" or "spike" or "4th Wall." I wouldn't bother getting it if you're a beginner. It's something I would recommend to intermediates and daygame hobbyists (not people just casually into daygame).

@Only8sandup: the weirdness is offset by his confidence and calibration. He's not even that weird. Just has some quirky ways of saying things that probably come from being British.

Post: #19

So far I just watched his videos on Youtube and read some of his books on amazon. Daygame is a pretty decent one where he tells his own story and gives with some useful insights about day game. If you are serious about day game, and I think you should, you should try the book. It's not that expensive.
I personally find day game much better for solid numbers from high quality girls. Here in Germany girls' attitude at night worsens drastically...

Post: #20

(12-10-2017 05:19 AM)MathGuy Wrote:  @Only8sandup: the weirdness is offset by his confidence and calibration. He's not even that weird. Just has some quirky ways of saying things that probably come from being British.

He's not calibrated or good IMO. When I watch it, I just cringe. Maybe I'm weird. Who knows?

Post: #21

@Only8sandup: He's an example of someone who is world class at this. Got laid with hundreds of different girls. Who would you hold up as someone who is great at game?

Post: #22

(12-10-2017 02:34 PM)MathGuy Wrote:  @Only8sandup: He's an example of someone who is world class at this. Got laid with hundreds of different girls. Who would you hold up as someone who is great at game?

Read the forum. There are guys on this forum doing 50-100 lays a year. I've met most of them.

Probably met 150 guys here by now and some of the best players around. And trust me, I could take five guys from this forum, of my choosing, who are masculine, confident, and who have a positive outlook on life and I would bet my savings that you could put them up against the top 5 PUA on youtube and those PUA would get absolutely destroyed.

Go to the meet-up / travel section for your answers.

Post: #23

@LINUX: Regardless of how top notch the guys on this forum are as well, it doesn't detract from the fact that I and many others have derived a ton of value from TT.

Post: #24

I got mixed feelings on this guy. On the one hand, credit to him for the amount of work he put in, he really seems to have approached like a diseased monkey approaches a forest full of banana trees, his approaches alone could in a single month burn out an entire small city (300-500k).

Even with all that "skill", that entire complex "scientific" model, his conversion rates from approach to lay are very low, lower than Krauser's. Again, credit to him for having the balls to run up to girls in the middle of whatever situation, say on a very busy street with an audience of dozens, and keep his cool. Humans weren't necessarily "designed" for cold approach, especially on this scale, and while I know we can change our thoughts and behaviors to a certain degree, I'm wondering if there is some degree of autism or disorder similar to it where his brain's wiring actually doesn't allow him to give a fuck. He says he viewed day game as "therapy", and while I can see what he means, day game for beginners can be more destructive than therapeutic, "beginner's hell" as Krauser calls it, which is an inevitable stage everyone (but precious few) has to go through into being intermediate and reasonably comfortable with day game.

He's also responsible for a lot of decline of European cities as far as daygame goes. His numbers are so low but because he earns a living from teaching the same shit he can justify continuing to do the bootcamps all over Europe and writing his books on doing the same. To most guys, the work he does for one lay is prohibitively high. That's why most guys who do day game seem to lock down the first quality chick they find, because they are aware of the grind that awaits if they just throw away the girl they just banged.

Just from watching a few of his videos he just seems like an overall dodgy character, with weird mannerisms, and I'd find it hard to trust him. He must have developed some revolutionary model or just approached a hell of a lot to find girls who will fuck him. I think the whole leather jacket, boots and accessories daygame outfit is there to initially give the girl impression that he is actually cool. For me, especially in EE, it would be overcompensating.

Krauser has his own traits that he himself admits make him not very likable, but he has a bit more authenticity than Torero, although again the same general "daygame uniform" is used.

IRL I've met guys who match or beat Torero's numbers and when I get momentum to approach enough I find I am hitting the same "ceiling", so either we are world class players or there is just a pool of available girls that we caught at the right place at the right time and we didn't fuck it up. The whole elaborate diagrams I find are overkill. Especially in EE where you are scrutinized by different criteria especially how trustworthy and stable you are as a long-term prospect. The model of Torero on the other hand seems to be to get the "sluts of the day time" into bed as fast as possible. That requires aggressive game. For more normal local girls they are either in or they're out. At least Torero admits something along the lines of successes are the tiny exceptions against a backdrop of the default of failure. Glorious exceptions, but exceptions nonetheless. I think his real numbers are 1 lay per 50 approaches, so every 49 out of 50 girls that are about on the streets may as well not exist. That's borderline spamming, but often the reality of daygame. Even in Kiev the 1 in 50 number will quickly turn an abundance mentality to something very different.

I also cringe at Torero's approaches as well, even the "successful" ones. I thought girls were supposed to be more sensitive to that shit, or they're just allowing him some leeway because they are "Yes" girls... I cringe at Krauser's approaches for a different reason. He's not necessarily weird and awkward like Torero trying to be cool, rather, you can tell Krauser is inherently quite a blunt, no bullshit northern british guy, but he has to come up with all these sweet lines about comparing a girl to a certain animal etc etc which must be difficult for a guy who is inherently the exact opposite of the "playful" kind of guy who would naturally spit those lines. As shit as my day approaches sometimes look, I try and do what's best and most sustainable for me. I haven't found any different results between the two "styles", only much higher demand by doing the high energy direct. Maybe it is different for the 8s and 9s which were rare to non-existent in Poland and where I normally live.

I also heard he tried to steal Krauser's serious LTR, not really for the lay but for the validation and his daygame stats. I'm not sure if that's why they're still not friends, but it doesn't exactly set good precedent going forward as far as a serious friendship goes.

He seems to revel in his self-proclaimed "international daygame playboy" persona when he is a courageous (to his credit) spammer, who finances this lifestyle by teaching other wide-eyed newbies the same running half a kilometer after a girl type of pseudodirect spamming. Most other guys he teaches actually have jobs though so they can't make what is a relatively inefficient way to get girls anywhere near efficient. When you can make a decent living from it as well as getting some girls, even if only 2%, then you can add them together and see what you're doing as tolerably efficient at least. I met guys who only have 4-8 weeks holiday per year, so they can never get the momentum to do day game properly.

If we believe his numbers and his claims of quality, then he is lightyears ahead of most of us in daygame, but there are as others have mentioned guys on this forum getting good quality girls by whatever means necessary (p4p excluded) who by far have this nerdy, odd guy beaten.

Roosh, if we take the "day game Roosh" as fair comparison, is more indirect, flexible and you wouldn't necessarily catch him doing high energy front stops with direct compliments anywhere near all the time. What he seems to suggest mirrors my own experience, especially in EE, that slower moving to stationary targets in places like the grocery store are better to open indirectly, measuring interest and not just politeness, and proceeding from there until it hooks... or it doesn't. It's something sustainable to me and doesn't feel as fake even though I am often asking a question I know the answer to. The only exception is where a girl really looks like my type and I can give her an honest reason why I want to talk to her, it may involve a front stop but not completely direct. After you walk and jog around so much, I find high energy front stops to be too much and when I'm solo I can't bring myself to do them most of the time. A lot of the girls walking fast are high end girls who likely have sponsors or BFs paying for all their shit and don't need more validation than they already have, I don't like the way the direct model just gives it out without the girl having to do anything. I also don't think Roosh spams like Torero, I think he is probably socially intelligent to the point that he knows what a good "target" is anyway, while Torero will most likely approach anything that moves. Believe me I've seen just a few bootcamp guys approaching anything that moves and the result even in a high traffic area is not pretty. You used to get credit for day time approaches, now because of the direct day game spamming you're just another in the queue.

Finally I think both Torero and Krauser are running a sort of "I hope she likes me" day game model, rather than a simple indirect screening model. After a long time dealing with girls, you can tell whether they are at least attracted or not, whether you go direct or indirect is irrelevant. Krauser had a series called daygame "mediocrity" and I thought, fuck, if that's classed as mediocrity then my equivalent "product" would be named something like daygame "complete horse shit". There is still the high energy front stop, teasing, push pulls etc. all of which I found didn't change the result of any pickup during the day. Like this one PUA was talking about his technique and he was like "...yeah, then I went on to some breaking rapport, you know, push pull type stuff, then I did this and that etc. ..." Pretty much overkill like the Torero stuff. Who knows, maybe Torero needs it. I'm not claiming to be in his league in terms of daygame results, so maybe it's required for bitchy models who are already sponsored by arab princes or a circle of local orbiters. All I know is the healthiest and most sustainable mindset to go into set with is to see what the girl is like and to see if she is available. Maybe there's some marginal benefit of adding all this complex shit to it but for me it's been external factors affecting results infinitely more than any "hack" day game "lines" I could spit made up by professional PUAs.

Aside from game, Roosh seems pretty damn honest. Just look at their faces, the way they talk, their mannerisms. Who would you trust, Roosh or this "Torero" guy?

Post: #25

(12-10-2017 11:16 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I cringe at Krauser's approaches for a different reason. He's not necessarily weird and awkward like Torero trying to be cool, rather, you can tell Krauser is inherently quite a blunt, no bullshit northern british guy, but he has to come up with all these sweet lines about comparing a girl to a certain animal etc etc which must be difficult for a guy who is inherently the exact opposite of the "playful" kind of guy who would naturally spit those lines.

I've read K's Daygame Mastery and he definitely talks about trying to get into a more playful mindset and how it's better for game. I think he often genuinely is thinking playfully but maybe doesn't show it on the outside. Sort of like how people may get the impression he's arrogant when really he's trying to say it how it is and truly express himself.

I'm getting to an intermediate level of game using K's daygame model and if you truly think he's not a playful guy maybe his game actually suits me more than himself. Ultimately I'm playful and genuinely care about the girls and the conversations I'm in, but I guess I have less sexual intensity.