Post: #1

Does anyone here grow their own food such as vegetables and/or fruits ?
If yes, would be interested in hearing some experiences.



For planting & growing most vegetables a garden is enough, but for many fruits you will need enough space and time (years) to be able to grow whole fruit trees.

Post: #2

(12-15-2017 11:24 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Does anyone here grow their own food such as vegetables and/or fruits ?
If yes, would be interested in hearing some experiences.

Really easy to do, but pointless with the price of food (in the UK at least)

I can buy a bag of potatoes from the local farm for less than the cost of the seed potatoes to grow my own.

Post: #3

I tried to get good at this but it is not for the meek, well, not if you want to grow organically. The layman idea about growing stuff is you just put a seed in and water it and you're done. The reality is that a zillion things can and do go wrong. Bugs, diseases, late/early frosts, soil problems, animal pests, constant battles with weeds, etc... It's really something you have to invest a lot of time and effort into learning in order to get the best yield out of the land you're working. It's also very much NOT about instant gratification. I have tried to do a lot of edible landscaping with bushes and trees and things and even they haven't turned out that well and even if they did, a fruit tree takes several years to mature.

On the upside, since gardening is more of a feminine thing, I've been able to leverage it as an unusual common interest with women. This is especially important when my regular career as a programmer is of no interest to them other than my salary.

Post: #4

(12-15-2017 11:39 AM)roberto Wrote:  Really easy to do, but pointless with the price of food (in the UK at least)

I can buy a bag of potatoes from the local farm for less than the cost of the seed potatoes to grow my own.

It's not about saving money, it's about getting more healthy in both being physically active in the garden and eating better quality food.


When my grandfather was still alive he used to plant and grow his own tomatoes. The difference in taste and quality to the supermarkets was amazing.
He made sure to "rotate the earth used". Meaning that he grew them in a different place in the garden each year. He told me that was necesssary so that the soil used could "recover" through sunlight & rain and the change of seasons.

I think a lot of the problem with modern supermarket fruits and vegetables is that it's grown indoors (away from the outside weather elements) in earth that has no nutrients and with artificial light.

So you might be eating lots of fruits & vegetables thinking you are getting vitamins and minerals but because of the crappy infertile soil, and lack of true sunlight (and watered with chemically cleaned & estrogen laced water) it’s actually got nothing useful for the human body. So you have to go out and buy a bunch of vitamin & mineral supplements to make up for the loss.

Our ancestors didn't need a bunch of supplements to stay healthy.

Post: #5

First step is to setup your garden space. Dig out about 6-12 inches down where you will plant (depth depending if you will do a raised garden). Get rid of rocky soil and clay, sift the good dirt if you have it. Buy enough topsoil to either raise or fill what you took out, mix that with chicken or horse or cow manure, only about 1 per 10 parts or your soil will burn up whatever you plant, less if the manure has sat over winter. Add hay if your soil needs aeration.
Layer the bottom with crushed or lava rocks for drainage, don't want the roots to get wet rot. Fill off with your topsoil/manure mix.

When planting try to create waterways, so each spot will bowl water, but drain off excess, depending on the seed determines how deep you should go. I setup mine so I just water one spot and it flows over each plant.

Post: #6

Supplementing your diet with homegrown tomatoes is nice and all, but most people already get an overabundance of vitamins from store bought food despite the depletion of minerals in the soil.

Everything really gets down to return on time invested. To grow a tomato from seed in a temperate climate requires starting the seed indoors, probably using a grow-lights, then transplanting it, and you'll pick your first ripe tomato by June if you're lucky. When all is said and done, if you're just doing small yard gardening, the total amount of biomass grown by hand is really, well, it's gonna disappoint you. You spend the vast majority of your time waiting for the few plants you did grow to mature and therefore you're suck to living on store bought food anyway.

To live in a more self-reliant way you have to put more time in than most people would feel justified. I earn enough money in my IT career to just shop for organic stuff at Whole Foods if I want. My time is therefore better spent making money and not sticking my hands in the dirt.

This is really how the entire economy works these days. It's all about division of labo and efficiency. Dabbling with gardening is a fun hobby but the output is simply inconsequential from a dietary perspective and the only way to make it consequential is to own a larger plot of land and make it a bigger and bigger part of your life to the point where it steals time from whatever else you want to do.

The people I have come into contact with who are knee deep in self-reliance are retirees or they never had white-collar skills and so there was really nothing lost in them going in that route.

What has worked best for me as far as the most yield in a compact space with the least problems are peas and pole beans. This is because they can climb their way up a trellis. Plus, they are nitrogen-fixers and so soil quality is not as crucial. With peas you can also squeeze out two harvests a year. Root vegetables like carrots are also highly successful because the root is like a bulb/battery that protects it from poor conditions. In my experience, the beans/peas and carrots are simply not attacked by pests/disease the way other plants are. I have wild rabbits in my yard and despite pop-culture, they have not gone after the carrots.

So if you DO jump into this I suggest you start with those two as they're almost impossible to screw up.

If you do tomatoes, stick with cherry varieties as they ripen faster. If you do a big beefsteak they will just sit there for ages big and green and it's annoying as hell.

I also like to do squash/pumpkins but a lot of the sprouts fail to mature properly for me. They have this moment where they have to trigger a growth spurt and most of them don't. Once they start vining then I have a problem with lots of flower buds and not enough actual 'fruit' (technically I guess you have to call them fruits). But vining plants in general are good to focus on in small spaces by virtue of being able to allow them to sprawl outside of their beds.

Avoid plants that "bolt" to seed in hot weather like broccoli or lettuce. I know people here tend not to believe in global warming but springs are just not spring anymore. It's a fact. If you still don't believe me, try gardening and observe the flakiness of the seasons for yourself. All it takes is one or two 80 degree spring days and these cold-weather crops will go to seed and become worthless. Kale and Collard greens are biennial and therefore will not go to seed, so they are better greens to grow in an unstable climate.

Post: #7

I would highly recommend having a vegetable garden if you have some space. When I was married there was flower gardens all around my house. I like gardens but had no use for peonies unless I am selling them. Weed whacked that shit. After the divorce I built some raised beds and got enough top soil to make my F350 pretty much bottom out. I love it for the growing. Definitely spend more on seeds, dirt (shitty clay soil at my house) and seed potatoes than what the produce would cost at the store but who cares. It is good for you to do this, very satisfying.
Cheaper to buy fish and meat than to hunt and fish usually but I would not want the life where I didn't hunt and fish. This is similar. Cheaper to drink at home, cheaper to just get a hooker etc.... . But the cheaper option in our modern world of cheap options is not what seems to lead to wellbeing.

Post: #8

(12-15-2017 12:22 PM)deerhunter Wrote:  Cheaper to buy fish and meat than to hunt and fish usually but I would not want the life where I didn't hunt and fish. This is similar. Cheaper to drink at home, cheaper to just get a hooker etc.... . But the cheaper option in our modern world of cheap options is not what seems to lead to wellbeing.

Post: #9

Is there anything you can grow where the seeds aren't just as expensive as the produce itself?

Post: #10

You can start many of your plants for free by simply not throwing away the seeds of your store-bought consumed fruits and vegetables. I've done this with dates, lemons, cucumbers, tomatoes and mung beans.

Note that this will not work for sterile strains or seeds that have been subjected to a harsh environment such as pickling.

Post: #11

Potatoes are super cheap. Just quarter what you don't eat (if they have eyes) and toss them in some dirt, then pick them later in the year.
Growing your own is usually less expensive in the long run anyways, for about $3 per tomato plant, I get tons off of them in mid to late summer. More than I could eat. I don't even water them, but that's just because of the area I live in.

Post: #12

(12-15-2017 01:42 PM)Suits Wrote:  Is there anything you can grow where the seeds aren't just as expensive as the produce itself?

This is not a valid comparison.
Grown correctly, a packet of seeds can give you a certain type of produce for an entire family for 1 month or more.


When it's harvest time, you will have so much of each thing, you have to sell it or give it away, cause you won't be able to eat it all.

Post: #13

I used to help tend a garden growing up.

It was dirty, gross, and a chore. The end result was worth it. It's women's work, but was always happy to lend a hand.

We grew tomatoes, hot peppers, sweet peppers, corn, arugula, lettuce, eggplant, and a ton of herbs. The herb garden was more the momster's domain because of the intricacies for tending it.

We also had apple trees and cherry trees.

I'm going to disagree with questor's statement about gardening. It's a very fulfilling hobby and the quality difference is noticeable. Organic food versus regular at the grocery store has zero difference in taste to me. Tending the garden was a weekly thing done on Saturday. Prepping for each season included laying down mulch around seedlings. A yearly mulching, while a pain in the ass to set, makes preventing weed up growth for an entire year a lot easier.

I've done hydroponic grows before with tomatoes and more recently cannabis with very desirable results for both. Taking nutrient readings and ph levels in the soil is trivially easy.

The wife has expressed an interest in gardening once we get a place. We'd also like to plant some citrus trees because we always seem to be running out of lemons and limes for cooking.

(12-15-2017 11:39 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 11:24 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Does anyone here grow their own food such as vegetables and/or fruits ?
If yes, would be interested in hearing some experiences.

Really easy to do, but pointless with the price of food (in the UK at least)

I can buy a bag of potatoes from the local farm for less than the cost of the seed potatoes to grow my own.

Growing your own potatoes is silly. Come on now Roberto Grow something more fun!

Post: #14

Maybe you guys don't know this, but the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) allows Americans to buy food producing seeds with their EBT cards. Way to go Democrats!

I have tried my hand at gardening for years, and I always fail. The only thing successful has been trees. I have coconuts, apples, oranges, avocados, mangoes, and papayas out the Ying now. But all my trees are at a point where I don't have to do anything other than minor trim jobs.

I've tried all the peppers and cucumbers and carrots. I've grown gorgeous beefy tomatos.

Like has been stated earlier, you really gotta stay on top of your garden. I've had the gorgeous beefy tomatoes looking fantastic and though " I'll give them two more days." Then gone fishing, and come back to shriveled crap, or had birds destroy them. I had the same happen with carrots that were just popping out of the ground. It broke my heart.

Maybe when I get a little older and gave time I'll go at it again.

Aloha!

Post: #15

I recently bought a small house with a large garden area.

The front I have designated as mostly for herbs and shrubs. I've planted lavendar and rosemary and num num. I've got sage, eggplant, mint and basil that I'll be planting next.

The back I have divided into 2 sections, one will be the vegetable/watermelon patch and the other will be orchard.

For fruit trees, I've planted plum, peach, mango, lemon and tangerine. I bought these at various nurseries. I'm looking around for a mulberry tree and I'm thinking of planting a nut tree, preferably almond but I can't seem to find it locally. The local climate and soil seems particularly suited to lemons, and even though my lemon tree is only just over a meter tall it already has some tiny lemons. I don't really expect much of a fruit crop from the other trees for many years but I'm enjoying watching them grow.

(I do also have one fruit tree in the front, a peach tree, but I put it in a pot so it won't grow too unwieldy. I had to cut down a tree in the front and I put the fruit tree on top of the stump so that the stump is less of an eye sore. Basically I put the peach on a pedestal.)

In the patch, I've planted watermelon, various peppers, and pumpkin. Today I saw one of the watermelon seeds has sprouted, I'm super pleased. Planning to add tomato soon. All the seeds were harvested from our own kitchen waste, I didn't buy any seeds.

I live in a temperate climate which makes gardening for food relatively easy.

I would like to eventually introduce some chickens too.

I have harvested some edible weeds from the garden. I have a lot of dandelion and galantiosa. The dandelion flower makes a nice mid-morning snack, but it's too bitter to have more than one. Galantiosa is kind of like spinach, although I haven't had much of it yet, just chewed a leaf here and there.

I've had to give up playing the guitar to make time to manage the garden, but it's worth it so far. Even though all we've 'harvested' so far is the lavender and rosemary, but the rest will come.

I can't say I'm being very professional about the garden, I've watched a few youtube videos and read a bit but mostly I'm planting based on gut feel and remembering what worked in my parent's garden.

The previous people who lived on the property planted all sorts of rubbish and then didn't tend to the plants so I basically now have a simmering rage towards all palms. I've spent more time trying to clean up the garden's hideous palms than in the actual planting of food crops. They were very evil palms. I will regale my future children with stories of the mighty battles I fought against those fiends, armed with my trusty chainsaw and garden shears.

Post: #16

Read this:

Fresh Food From Small Spaces

It's an eye-opening read by a guy who was ultimately able to produce about a third of his food needs in his tiny NYC apartment---including vegetables and raising a beehive for honey. Haven't tried it myself, but a good friend turned me onto this guy and she's using some of his techniques to grow veggies in her city apartment.

Post: #17

(12-15-2017 02:45 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  I recently bought a small house with a large garden area.

The front I have designated as mostly for herbs and shrubs. I've planted lavendar and rosemary and num num. I've got sage, eggplant, mint and basil that I'll be planting next.

The back I have divided into 2 sections, one will be the vegetable/watermelon patch and the other will be orchard.

For fruit trees, I've planted plum, peach, mango, lemon and tangerine. I bought these at various nurseries. I'm looking around for a mulberry tree and I'm thinking of planting a nut tree, preferably almond but I can't seem to find it locally. The local climate and soil seems particularly suited to lemons, and even though my lemon tree is only just over a meter tall it already has some tiny lemons. I don't really expect much of a fruit crop from the other trees for many years but I'm enjoying watching them grow.

(I do also have one fruit tree in the front, a peach tree, but I put it in a pot so it won't grow too unwieldy. I had to cut down a tree in the front and I put the fruit tree on top of the stump so that the stump is less of an eye sore. Basically I put the peach on a pedestal.)

In the patch, I've planted watermelon, various peppers, and pumpkin. Today I saw one of the watermelon seeds has sprouted, I'm super pleased. Planning to add tomato soon. All the seeds were harvested from our own kitchen waste, I didn't buy any seeds.

I live in a temperate climate which makes gardening for food relatively easy.

I would like to eventually introduce some chickens too.

I have harvested some edible weeds from the garden. I have a lot of dandelion and galantiosa. The dandelion flower makes a nice mid-morning snack, but it's too bitter to have more than one. Galantiosa is kind of like spinach, although I haven't had much of it yet, just chewed a leaf here and there.

I've had to give up playing the guitar to make time to manage the garden, but it's worth it so far. Even though all we've 'harvested' so far is the lavender and rosemary, but the rest will come.

I can't say I'm being very professional about the garden, I've watched a few youtube videos and read a bit but mostly I'm planting based on gut feel and remembering what worked in my parent's garden.

The previous people who lived on the property planted all sorts of rubbish and then didn't tend to the plants so I basically now have a simmering rage towards all palms. I've spent more time trying to clean up the garden's hideous palms than in the actual planting of food crops. They were very evil palms. I will regale my future children with stories of the mighty battles I fought against those fiends, armed with my trusty chainsaw and garden shears.

How much time are we talking about here? It's a shame you can't do both.

What kind of palms did you have? I had med date palms at my previous house and they were magnificent!

Post: #18

(12-15-2017 02:45 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  I basically now have a simmering rage towards all palms. I've spent more time trying to clean up the garden's hideous palms than in the actual planting of food crops. They were very evil palms. I will regale my future children with stories of the mighty battles I fought against those fiends, armed with my trusty chainsaw and garden shears.

I know this pain my brother.

Early in my home ownership career I thought it would be great to line the property with areca palms. People give them away left and right. Then I thought it would be even better to augment the spaces between them with lipstick palms. Lipstick palms cost big bucks, and I thought of it as an investment.

Well a few years later I get every Micronesian on this side of the island jumping the wall to steal my betel nuts. Then, fronds everywhere. On the roof, in my truck, they blow in the garage, they get wet and rotten and stink, scorpions and centipedes hide in them. It's a disaster.

You cut them down as much as you can, and they spring up. The trick is to drill holes into the stump then roundup the holes. I've had some lipsticks not die from ground up and had to pour diesel in there.

Stay away from all decorative palms. Coconut producing ones are OK.

Aloha!

Post: #19

(12-15-2017 11:24 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Does anyone here grow their own food such as vegetables and/or fruits ?
If yes, would be interested in hearing some experiences.



For planting & growing most vegetables a garden is enough, but for many fruits you will need enough space and time (years) to be able to grow whole fruit trees.

I have and it's more or less a fulltime job.

If you're concerned about where your food comes from you're way better off joining a CSA (community supported agriculture)

Not sure where you live but they're widely available. Just do a search online. Typically the way it works is you pay a flat monthly fee and they drop off a box of mixed produce at a frequency you determine. Most of them allow you to customize your box, if there's anything you don't like just tell them.

The thing about growing your own crops is when things are in season on a mature plant, you'll have an overabundance, so you either have to sell/exchange your produce or preserve it somehow. You're better off signing up to a CSA

Post: #20

(12-15-2017 11:24 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Does anyone here grow their own food such as vegetables and/or fruits ?
If yes, would be interested in hearing some experiences.



For planting & growing most vegetables a garden is enough, but for many fruits you will need enough space and time (years) to be able to grow whole fruit trees.

Player tip: Make your stay at home wife, a plot area to make a garden for vegetables. Watch her stay so preoccupied with said garden, that she has even less time to bug you for something else. She won't realize how tough it can be, might take her years to figure that out and get bored with it.

Profit.

Post: #21

(12-15-2017 02:35 PM)Kona Wrote:  Maybe you guys don't know this, but the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) allows Americans to buy food producing seeds with their EBT cards. Way to go Democrats!

I have tried my hand at gardening for years, and I always fail. The only thing successful has been trees. I have coconuts, apples, oranges, avocados, mangoes, and papayas out the Ying now. But all my trees are at a point where I don't have to do anything other than minor trim jobs.

I've tried all the peppers and cucumbers and carrots. I've grown gorgeous beefy tomatos.

Like has been stated earlier, you really gotta stay on top of your garden. I've had the gorgeous beefy tomatoes looking fantastic and though " I'll give them two more days." Then gone fishing, and come back to shriveled crap, or had birds destroy them. I had the same happen with carrots that were just popping out of the ground. It broke my heart.

Maybe when I get a little older and gave time I'll go at it again.

Aloha!

The only thing I grew well was watermelons *que the black man jokes*.

As far as trees went, man that was fuggin easy! I had peaches and oranges quickly enough. Lemon trees are super easy to grow and the ladies love em. Pruning the trees was fairly easy.

The only bad thing that happened was one year, the first year I had a bunch of peaches, someone stole them all over night. Long story short, my neighbor and I figured out that the White Tail Deer in the area (thanks to the new construction) came through and got them. I was madder than a hornet. It was not deer hunting season yet either, so I could not get instant revenge on top of that.

Post: #22

(12-15-2017 11:42 AM)questor70 Wrote:  On the upside, since gardening is more of a feminine thing, I've been able to leverage it as an unusual common interest with women. This is especially important when my regular career as a programmer is of no interest to them other than my salary.

(12-15-2017 03:41 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Player tip: Make your stay at home wife, a plot area to make a garden for vegetables. Watch her stay so preoccupied with said garden, that she has even less time to bug you for something else. She won't realize how tough it can be, might take her years to figure that out and get bored with it.

Profit.

"Garden game"

I guess it is also really good way to keep your girl in healthy shape and away from her smartphone.

Post: #23

(12-15-2017 03:08 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 02:45 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  I basically now have a simmering rage towards all palms. I've spent more time trying to clean up the garden's hideous palms than in the actual planting of food crops. They were very evil palms. I will regale my future children with stories of the mighty battles I fought against those fiends, armed with my trusty chainsaw and garden shears.

I know this pain my brother.

Early in my home ownership career I thought it would be great to line the property with areca palms. People give them away left and right. Then I thought it would be even better to augment the spaces between them with lipstick palms. Lipstick palms cost big bucks, and I thought of it as an investment.

Well a few years later I get every Micronesian on this side of the island jumping the wall to steal my betel nuts. Then, fronds everywhere. On the roof, in my truck, they blow in the garage, they get wet and rotten and stink, scorpions and centipedes hide in them. It's a disaster.

You cut them down as much as you can, and they spring up. The trick is to drill holes into the stump then roundup the holes. I've had some lipsticks not die from ground up and had to pour diesel in there.

Stay away from all decorative palms. Coconut producing ones are OK.

Aloha!

Hey Kona, I bet you know the answer to this, so is there a risk of large roaches invading your house if you grow banana trees? Some Nigerians warned me about planting those for that reason and I never tried. I know that Hawaii is known for large roaches, and Texas has big nasty ones as well.

Post: #24

Alternatively if time is an issue, in many places you can join a local co op and support your local farmers and receive a regular delivery of locally grown organic vegetables.

Post: #25

My mum keeps a 1 acre veg garden, and I am one of the beneficiaries of it. I get delicious fresh, seasonal veg year round (except the barren months of late Feb, March, and the first week or so of April here in the UK). My mum delivers it to me, with fresh eggs from her chickens a couple of times each week. She works very hard at it, and a couple of times a year I give her a day where I barrow horse shit around, dig over the soil, cut stuff back etc. For her though I reckon keeping something that size is at least 1-3 full days/week of effort year round (depending on the season, and it could easily be more). It is a real labour of love, but I don't think anyone in my family has paid for a vegetable in a supermarket for nearly 20 years. I'm hugely grateful for it.

There are a couple of reasons to do it:

1. Fresh, homegrown veg tastes nothing like what you can buy in the supermarket. Eat some supermarket asparagus, then eat some fresh from a garden, and you may as well be eating completely different plants.

2. If you pick wisely, you can pick plants where the gain in flavour is massive, and the savings significant. We prioritise things like asparagus, purple sprouting broccoli, sweetcorn, leeks, courgettes etc. These all taste significantly different from the garden.

3. If you mainly grow 'luxury' veg, like asparagus, the saving in price is significant, and you can gorge on some of the most delicious produce imaginable.

Ultimately though, you've got to be prepared to devote significant time to even a small garden.