Post: #1

I didn't do everything right today, feel free to critique me.

Today I was having tea at the tea house after lunch with a girl I want to have sex with when I was cockblocked.

At the teahouse there are a few people who walk around trying to get a few extra RMB by doing stupid tricks. One woman will come to your table and sing, another will clean your ears or give you a massage, and another guy balances tin cans on a stick from his mouth without you asking and then begs for money for a while.

This time an old man comes by and in a calm manner sits pulls out a chair and offers to tell my girl's fortune. I usually quickly decline this offer for both of us, but because I'm reading Casanova's memoirs in which he fools others with similar bullshit, I allowed her to do it because I wanted to watch a live example of an expert liar, but i actually learned from him in an expected way.

He asks my guest in Chinese if i can understand Chinese and she replies that I can, but not in the local dialect. Well, I understood enough because he proceeded to tell her that she wouldn't find real love until next year and that she would encounter 2 or 3 other guys who don't work out before she finds the one. (It's kind of funny because he actually is right that I'm not the one she'll marry). He made specific references that I'm not it, afterwards I let him coax her into paying a lot of money because I wanted see if she was prudent enough to barter down the price, she wasn't.

Anyway, I didn't say anything in her presence because i wanted to maintain frame, and instead walked off to go talk to the guy after it was over.

Out of view, I told him that I was unhappy that he didn't tell my guest that her good luck would be now and with me. But also that I'm fine with her losing her money if she's foolish to do so, and I want to use him in the future. I offered him 100rmb (not a small amount in my city) to guarantee that next time he would tell any female friend of mine that her fortune would be in the present.

I never could have foreseen that he would decline actual cash there there in front of him to take. He instead tried to follow me back to the table to tell my girl what I just did, I told him forget it and not to bother me in the future. Anticipating that he wouldn't listen to me, and that my girl would notice that I was angry, I told her (part of) the truth about why I was unhappy with the fortune he gave her because it implied we wouldn't work out. During which time he himself comes by to blow the lid off this thing.

I can't believe that he turned down my money. I often come by with different girls and I'm well known there as the foreigner who brings them by. I don't close nearly all of them, but perhaps he was jealous, feels that a foreigner fucking Chinese girls is wrong. He could have been my mystic wingman and gotten some money but instead I learned that jealousy is a very real and very strong feeling.

I've paid the bitch who sings to never come bother me again, but this situation really makes me mad. I think I'm going to talk to the owners and tell them to make sure no one bothers me anymore otherwise I'm going to stop bringing them expensive tea drinking women.

I feel that I should have handled the situation differently because I can see in her body language that the result of this event is probably that I'm not going to get her. Or maybe i will, see how it goes, you know these girls love English out here.

Post: #2

You can't guarantee success, but you can deserve it.

I think paying the guy in advance for a good fortune was a player move, you just should have done it in advance and not spur of the moment. The guy has jealousy issues certainly.

Considering where you are, the odds should have been in your favor for this to work. But nothing works every time.

You may have burned your bridge at this establishment.

Post: #3

TL;DR: street busker salted your game? How is this legitimately something to complain about? How tf is that part of your game repertoire.

Post: #4

Next time don't give money to the angry and jealous storyteller, instead give money to the tea-house owner, so that the street busker will be thrown out of the establishment.

By the way, from the thread title, I thought the daring little dude would tell future and fortune by looking at your girlfriend's arsehole...

Might be a nice, audacious in any case, game strategy, to have a free look and feel at cute chicks' asses: pretend you are an exotic asshole-reading fortune teller, telling the future by looking at (female, mind you) anuses - instead of the lines of the hands. Please try it and report.

Post: #5

Why did you get pissed off if you know he is an 'expert liar'?

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Weak frame, you fell into qualification mode and then went to put the blame on the bullshitter you paid to bullshit your girl? Because the bullshit was about you?

This is hilarious.

In future, don't outsource your game and if you do, don't get pissed when it's not what you expect.

Post: #6

"don't outsource your game"

lol, great phrase. You really can't expect anyone to help you out except your close mates and even then they might sod you off. Even your mother or your sister will salt your game, half-unintentionally.

Post: #7

Was it this guy?

Post: #8

In hindsight you should've just called him out when he started throwing salt. "If you could really tell the future you wouldn't be begging for pennies. Go ruin someone elses day old man".

A mystic wingman would've been cool though

Post: #9

Honestly, the fortune teller isn't the one who comes across as an ashole in this story.

You compare what you see as his dishonest vocation to your own dishonesty, but I highly doubt it's anywhere close to comparable in his eyes. He entertains these people and fulfills a cultural tradition for a few rmb here and there. He may even believe what he's doing is real. Or perhaps the women don't really take it too seriously themselves, viewing it more as good cheap fun with potential for truth.

In any case, it's an insignificant amount of money, at least in the time of giving it, in a culture where spreading your extra coin to the poor is seen as good karma (even poor people do it when they can) and old superstitions are enthusiastically entertained.

Then you come along and, while insulting him and what he does for money, make it clear you want to purposely con this girl to get in her pants. It's one thing to play along with a girl who is looking for an easy excuse to have sex, but you're methodically lying, playing with her emotions and going so far as to pretend like it upsets you a fortune teller would imply you're not meant to be together.

And even going as far as to try enlist what you thought was another con artist in your con. And you're somehow surprised he doesn't want to join in? Would you expect a magician stopping by your table with a few "magic" tricks in the US to help you mislead some girl as well?

In an Asian society, I suspect he sees the harmless donations people give them as an obligation of the have to the have nots, whether you agree with it or not. On the other hand, he likely sees outright manipulation of a female to get unchained sex, even going so far as enlisting the outside help of third parties, to be a moral outrage.

So just to begin, you seem to lack some SERIOUS awareness of the cultures you choose to play in. Whether you agree with his perspective or not, you are the guest in a foreign place and really ought to consider it.

Regarding your frame, maybe he was purposely hating on you. Or maybe he truly thought he was giving a real fortune, as I've suggested.

Does it really matter? Either way, I'd bet money that losing frame about it and getting in a spat with a man so much lower status than you over it... instead of laughing it off and moving on with your night... lost you way more favor in her eyes than anything he could have said. Think about this for a sec - you lost the bang over a dumb public disagreement with a man who essentially begs for change just to stay alive.

You're probably living in a nice hotel or apartment with first world pleasures and a parade of young pussy coming through....and here you're arguing with old beggars in the street who are stuck in another century and have basically nothing promising going on in their lives. I think a little perspective is in order, and your date probably thought so too.

At best, he makes enough to get by and manage a somewhat comfortable basic existence. You, meanwhile, have a future and options and live in relative luxury and enjoy a far more fascinating, free life than this man ever dreamed of living. One that, at least from his perspective, you did not have to earn. Not only is his jealousy understandable with a little empathy on your part, but your stooping down to butt heads with him is a huge red flag for an Asian woman.

Now, as far as lying goes, some players see no problem with lying about these things, and I can't claim to have always been 100% honest if a little misdirection might secure the goods. So I won't harp on you too hard about that, even though it seems unnecessary if your status and money is really such a slam dunk, the way you imply in your post.

But I will say this. The way you tell your story suggests that you really seem to be letting your "foreigner" power go to your head. The way you brag to us about throwing your money and "English" around at peasants who tell meaningless fortunes and sing at tables for a living is disgusting.

There's nothing wrong with flipping someone a coin to give you some space in a public place in Asia. These people can get annoying. But to throw it out there like it makes you something special wins you no points in my eyes.

There is a quote - from a Harry Potter book, of all places, but nonetheless poignant - that I often think of when I observe how some foreigners behave in Asia, especially when dealing with the poor: "If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals."

I'd give some serious consideration to how your time abroad might be going to your head if I were you. Asians are used to seeing men of wealth and power parade a long line of women through the establishments they frequent, and while there are exceptions, they generally err on the side of discretion. If you act like an arrogant asshole about it (especially a foreign one with limited local power), on the other hand, don't be surprised if they find ways to throw a wrench in your game.

Post: #10

^Very good post on the Asian culture and society in general, Beyond Borders, as usual in your case.

I have two reservations though, in this particular, OP case.

First, I am sure that this line: "If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals" has not been invented or coined by the female SJW who wrote Harry Potter by stealing 95% of her ideas from other writers (Tolkien, Jack Vance etc). I heard this line somewhere else and before her (low-quality) time as a "writer".

Secondly, the fortune teller is not so innocent, one might think: "He asks my guest in Chinese if I can understand Chinese and she replies that I can, but not in the local dialect. Well, I understood enough because he proceeded to tell her that she wouldn't find real love until next year"

If something like that happened to me in Latin America, where I understand the local language(s), I would have reacted with surprise and a bit of outrage, by getting the malevolent, daring fortune teller out of the restaurant with no delay. Because let's not be naive, it is, very probably, on purpose that the fortune teller said the very insulting thing that he said.

I mean, a man (a strange one but still) sits at your table and proceeds to say aloud to your woman that she won't find love before next year?? I used to know a Colombian dude who would have shot him on the spot, and I have a couple of Russian friends who would have punched the fortune teller, for such a blatant cockblocking insult. Cultural differences, ok, as you described, they exist, especially in Asia - but... the malevolent insult and attempt at cockblocking is obvious.

Post: #11

(12-19-2017 04:46 PM)Going strong Wrote:  ^Very good post on the Asian culture and society in general, Beyond Borders, as usual in your case.

I have two reservations though, in this particular, OP case.

First, I am sure that this line: "If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals" has not been invented or coined by the female SJW who wrote Harry Potter by stealing 95% of her ideas from other writers (Tolkien, Jack Vance etc). I heard this line somewhere else and before her (low-quality) time as a "writer".

Thanks for pointing that out. I've actually long been troubled about where I got this from, but every time I Google it I just came up with mention of her. I wasn't sure if it was my imagination that I'd read it elsewhere, but regardless, it's spot on.

I'm not aware of her politics, but as for her being an SJW, if it had been her, that wouldn't stop me from using the quote. True words are true words, regardless of who speaks them. Would love to know the original source, though, if anyone knows.

Quote:
Secondly, the fortune teller is not so innocent, one might think: "He asks my guest in Chinese if I can understand Chinese and she replies that I can, but not in the local dialect. Well, I understood enough because he proceeded to tell her that she wouldn't find real love until next year"

If something like that happened to me in Latin America, where I understand the local language(s), I would have reacted with surprise and a bit of outrage, by getting the malevolent, daring fortune teller out of the restaurant with no delay. Because let's not be naive, it is, very probably, on purpose that the fortune teller said the very insulting thing that he said.

I mean, a man (a strange one but still) sits at your table and proceeds to say aloud to your woman that she won't find love before next year?? I used to know a Colombian dude who would have shot him on the spot, and I have a couple of Russian friends who would have punched the fortune teller, for such a blatant cockblocking insult. Cultural differences, ok, as you described, they exist, especially in Asia - but... the malevolent insult and attempt at cockblocking is obvious.

I understand what you mean.

To be clear, it wasn't my intention to say he was necessarily innocent - my implication was that he thinks he is, which is different, and then outline the thought process from his perspective.

Since that has come up, however, it is hard to say if the man's words are spiteful or not. Asian people are very direct with one another about shit like this - though they'll be sneaky about it to avoid irritating a Westerner's feelings. Sometimes they aren't sneaky at all. How many times have you other players in Asia sat there while a well-meaning old man or woman warned a girl that you seem like a playboy, WITHOUT hiding their words one bit?

I know it's happened to me plenty. It's usually done in good humor but it's not like that means they aren't serious. The more hush hush talk is really common, on the other hand.

I laugh about it but pay it little mind. I certainly don't take it personally, if I can help it, and I most definitely don't then think it might be a good idea to offer them money to collaborate with me when other girls came along.

It feels like a shitty move when someone uses your language barrier against you, but it's quite possible he wasn't necessarily asking if OP understood so he could get one over on him so much as he was asking to avoid making OP angry (i.e. avoid confrontation). I mean, does anyone here honestly think the guy was trying to steal OP's girl? No, we're talking about an old man who, most likely scenario, thought he was actually looking out for the girl, misguided or not.

Chances are he either a) really thinks he sees the woman's future and is telling her the fortune she paid for but wanted to avoid pissing off OP when he did it, or b) is cold reading as his method of "fortune telling" and is convinced the OP is not marrying the girl, which is true, as OP pointed out. There's also c) it was a pure cockblocking move designed to sabotage a guy he sees as an undeserving asshole. Now, if a) or b) or c) is true... and the fortune teller goes with d) tell the girl a clearly false future to appease OP, that may to him may be the greater dishonesty.

I mean, come on, the word "cockblock" is likely not even in this old Chinese man's universe. He lives by an entirely different code of ethics than OP, which makes getting angry at him just ridiculous.

Again, these ethics can be argued on all day, especially throwing in all the different cultures and backgrounds, but my point was not necessarily that he was "innocent" or not. I was speaking from a place of empathy, meaning I can understand the man - that's not the same as saying he is correct. My point is that OP made the mistake of thinking that just because the old man had done something the OP sees as dishonest means he's going to be ready and willing to hop on any dishonest buck you hand to him.

That's the true insult - telling an old peasant who thinks he's doing nothing wrong that now he must cosign on any other trickery you come up with, regardless of his own personal ethics, which are obviously very different than yours. On top of that deciding that his desire for a buck means that you can assume his lies have no bounds. Again, it's not about the question of innocence - it's about the fact that you obviously have very different ideas of what is innocent and what is not, but you assume you can buy his idea of innocence because you have the money and status.

It's also possible he is just a shitty person. We've got those everywhere.

This is where I said letting someone like this ruin your night is unattractive at best. This is the kind of thing you laugh off. Just because your Colombian and Russian buddies would have shot/punched the guy doesn't mean those aren't unwise, overboard responses. I am no stranger to punching disrespectful people in the face...but punching some pathetic old man who scrounges from table to table for a buck or two...over something like this...because he "cockblocked" you?

Nah, come on...Even hammered off my ass I would not do that. Punching the guy would be a huge over-reaction. Maybe clown him and tell him to get lost at most.

And, hell, while we're on the subject of cultural differences, I can even believe your Colombian or Russian buddies might do this in other places, but I'd wager if they tried this with some old guy deep in China, they'd be peeling their faces off the pavement not long after, if at all, tough and hardened as they may be. I may be speaking out of my ass as my China experience is minimal, but his would be a very bad idea in most Asian countries I've been to. Punching some old beggar in a restaurant sounds like a great way for a foreigner to find out just how rabid a pack of frenzied Asian guys can get.

But we're getting off track. More to the point of that particular bit in my post, by losing frame over it, OP lost attraction. It's an unfortunate turn of events, but it's a pathetic, likely uneducated old man trying to scrape up some change. What do I care if he tells my date that I'm not going to marry her, even if it was what you could call a "cockblock"? This is a mere hiccup in the night and something to laugh about on a date. It gives the date character. Hell, I'm liable to tell her the same thing if she asks - whether he says it or I say it because she inquires, I'd make it a joke and move on.

What does OP care if the girl thinks she will have multiple more guys throughout the year? Once again, it's true, first of all, and second, even if he does care, showing it is not doing him any favors. Sure, he didn't want the seed planted on a date that's going well, but losing cool over it is needy, and overcompensating by pretending you wish the guy had seen your future together instead is just dishonest. I would only say such a thing with the thickest, most blatant of sarcasm.

That being the case, is it any wonder the old man's alarm bells were going off about OP's character in the first place? Whether you and I agree with OP lying or not, the old man is not incorrect in his judgements, and in his own mind he's protecting the women of his culture. Understanding this does not mean you need to agree with it. And understanding this dynamic will go a long way towards having an easier time in places like this.

Regarding me saying OP is letting things go to his head, I was referring to his comments like "I've paid the bitch who sings to never come bother me again," "I never could have foreseen that he would decline actual cash there there in front of him to take," and "Or maybe i will, see how it goes, you know these girls love English out here," "I can't believe that he turned down my money," and "He could have been my mystic wingman and gotten some money but instead I learned that jealousy is a very real and very strong feeling."

Without even knowing about this incident with the old man, one can get a clear glimpse of how he regards himself relative to these people, and if you ask me that goes a long way towards understanding why some old beggar disrespected him in the first place, let alone why the girl really felt soured by it all.

I sometimes like to throw around a little cash when I go around in a poorer country too - but you do it in a way that makes people happy to see you walk in the door, not in a way that makes them resent you. A lot of poor people in Asian countries were born into a life that is very difficult to scramble your way out of, and while I'm not urging anyone to run off an join an NGO or something, a little bit of humility goes a long way when you're in their neck of the woods.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #12

(12-19-2017 11:38 AM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  Was it this guy?

Ah, The Man Show. Imagine someone trying to put that on TV these days.

Post: #13

(12-19-2017 07:33 PM)Sisyphus Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 11:38 AM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  Was it this guy?

Ah, The Man Show. Imagine someone trying to put that on TV these days.

To think Jimmy Kimmel was on there making money and fame from being outrageous, and then he was shilling against Trump this year. Mainstream fame does weird shit to people once they think they've got something to protect.

Post: #14

Update:
Today I returned to the tea house to ask the owners to do me a favor and prevent anyone from bothering me or my female friends again. I explained that I was considering discontinuing my visits as a consequence of what has been happening.

We all laughed about my misfortune and they told me that they would tell the people they work with to leave me alone. I thanked them, they requested me to come back often and bring many customers, and I left very pleased with the result.

Post: #15

A Chinese man behaving in a jealous and irrational manner?

Consider me truly shocked by this shocking turn of events!

Post: #16

Bro,

Take a seat. It's time for some tough love.

There is so much here that is cataclysmically bad, and it's mostly your fault.



I'll list em out and go through em with you.

1. You let this guy do something you didn't want him to do.

2. You let him get in your head.

3. You insulted his pride by offering him money--fucking 100 RMB!? Really?

4. You got called out on your bad game and made it worse for yourself.


1.

Why didn't you just tell him to fuck off? I don't know about you, but If I want to see bullshit in live-action, I watch American politics. Expert liars. Master conmen.

I don't let these guys fuck up my game plan with my girls. You are passive-aggressive after the fact when you should have been bold up front and told him to get going.

2.

You let this guy get in your head with his nonsense. You gotta pick one:

1) He's legit, and you're actually the asshole.
2) The guy's a clown and not to be taken seriously.

For some reason, you decided to assume he was legit and let him hurt your feelings. That isn't masculine. If your game is tight, that girl will feel special and still go home and fuck you anyway. You could have even bonded further over his vagary about you not being the one. Get creative, man. If an old dude telling lies can fuck your game up this hard, then I'd hate to see you deal with a real AMOG in a Western country.

This is basic shit, bro.

3.

Dude, three was really bad. Why didn't you just let it go at this point? You went up to this guy and offered him money. I know this forum hates the idea of face, but you tried to make him lose face there. Of course, he's gonna come back and fuck your day up. Chinese people love pissing matches and this guy could piss longer and further than you could. He straight up denied you a bang and the worst thing you can do to him to talk to management and HOPE that they listen to your lame story. C'mon, man. Take your loss and move on.



You got owned by a poor Chinese fortune teller.

4.

He roasted your ass in front of your girl, AND YOU created a situation where he can white knight for the other girls you might bring to the area and continue to cockblock you with no recourse. This last thing really mystifies me. You speak great Chinese and might even be Asian, so I'm not sure how you didn't know that guy would be insulted by your offer to pay him off like that. Had he accepted your money that would have been an admission that his entire game (fortune telling) was bullshit. If you think a man will throw away his pride for 100 RMB, then I don't know what to tell you.

Not to mention, you acted like a total chump, so why would he even want to help you? First, you try to get him to fuck off, then you sit there and act grouchy while he does his cold read, AND THEN you try to tell him to fuck off for doing something that you let him do? Your frame was non-existent. If you had just told him to fuck off and then found him and later and tried to talk to him, he might not have raped you so badly, but your lack of frame exposed you as a weakling, and he treated you like a bitch.

Listen up, guys. This is just panda Extinction-tier game. Dude getting AMOG'd by old Chinese fortune tellers is a forum first.

Post: #17

Next time offer 2000RMB.

Post: #18

(12-20-2017 10:47 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Bro,

Take a seat. It's time for some tough love.

There is so much here that is cataclysmically bad, and it's mostly your fault.



I'll list em out and go through em with you.

1. You let this guy do something you didn't want him to do.

2. You let him get in your head.

3. You insulted his pride by offering him money--fucking 100 RMB!? Really?

4. You got called out on your bad game and made it worse for yourself.


1.

Why didn't you just tell him to fuck off? I don't know about you, but If I want to see bullshit in live-action, I watch American politics. Expert liars. Master conmen.

I don't let these guys fuck up my game plan with my girls. You are passive-aggressive after the fact when you should have been bold up front and told him to get going.

2.

You let this guy get in your head with his nonsense. You gotta pick one:

1) He's legit, and you're actually the asshole.
2) The guy's a clown and not to be taken seriously.

For some reason, you decided to assume he was legit and let him hurt your feelings. That isn't masculine. If your game is tight, that girl will feel special and still go home and fuck you anyway. You could have even bonded further over his vagary about you not being the one. Get creative, man. If an old dude telling lies can fuck your game up this hard, then I'd hate to see you deal with a real AMOG in a Western country.

This is basic shit, bro.

3.

Dude, three was really bad. Why didn't you just let it go at this point? You went up to this guy and offered him money. I know this forum hates the idea of face, but you tried to make him lose face there. Of course, he's gonna come back and fuck your day up. Chinese people love pissing matches and this guy could piss longer and further than you could. He straight up denied you a bang and the worst thing you can do to him to talk to management and HOPE that they listen to your lame story. C'mon, man. Take your loss and move on.



You got owned by a poor Chinese fortune teller.

4.

He roasted your ass in front of your girl, AND YOU created a situation where he can white knight for the other girls you might bring to the area and continue to cockblock you with no recourse. This last thing really mystifies me. You speak great Chinese and might even be Asian, so I'm not sure how you didn't know that guy would be insulted by your offer to pay him off like that. Had he accepted your money that would have been an admission that his entire game (fortune telling) was bullshit. If you think a man will throw away his pride for 100 RMB, then I don't know what to tell you.

Not to mention, you acted like a total chump, so why would he even want to help you? First, you try to get him to fuck off, then you sit there and act grouchy while he does his cold read, AND THEN you try to tell him to fuck off for doing something that you let him do? Your frame was non-existent. If you had just told him to fuck off and then found him and later and tried to talk to him, he might not have raped you so badly, but your lack of frame exposed you as a weakling, and he treated you like a bitch.

Listen up, guys. This is just panda Extinction-tier game. Dude getting AMOG'd by old Chinese fortune tellers is a forum first.

Haha good post.
yes I know that I should have immediately sent him away from the beginning.

I've lived in China for a year and a half now so I'm not unaware of the influence of face here. But I really believe that every fortune teller knows they're a cheat, so I didn't think about face at the time, however you may very well be right.

Post: #19

Respect to you for having some humility after the fact.

Post: #20

I think ShuaiGe posted this thread more to provide an opportunity for discussion and for others to gain insight from his mistakes. This is the type of story most guys would tell and laugh about over a pint years ago, but probably wouldn't want to talk about shortly after the experience. No need to further analyze his errors, unless there is some value to be gain by the community from doing so.

On an unrelated note, I hope that for anyone reading, this puts the final nail into the coffee of belief that Asian-Americans have a "special cultural insight" into Chinese (or any other) culture.