Post: #1

"But all we want is equality!!!!"





by Tony Diver

22 January 2018 • 3:39pm

Oxford University exam times were increased in a bid to improve the low scores of women, it has emerged.

Students taking maths and computer science examinations in the summer of 2017 were given an extra 15 minutes to complete their papers, after dons ruled that "female candidates might be more likely to be adversely affected by time pressure". There was no change to the length or difficulty of the questions.

It was the first time such steps had been taken. In previous years, the percentage of male students awarded first class degrees was double that of women and in 2016 the board of examiners suggested that the department make changes to improve women's grades.

However, despite the intention being to lessen gender discrepancies, the main effect of the time increase appears to have been an increase in the number of 2:1s overall, with 2:2 figures falling. Men continued to be awarded more first class degrees than women in the two subjects.

A university spokesman defended the changes as "academically demanding and fair", and noted that while 39 per cent of female mathematicians achieved first class degrees compared to 47 per cent of men, women's scores had improved year on year.

The lengthening of exams was welcomed by some female students. Antonia Siu, Undergraduate Representative of Oxford Women in Computer Science, said: "I am uneasy about schemes to favour one gender over another.

"But I am happy when people see gaps between groups of people who should not reasonably have such gaps - such as between genders, races or class - and take that as a starting point to think about the kinds of people they unintentionally are leaving behind."

Post: #2

"So what you're saying is that women aren't smart enough to complete the exams on time?"

Post: #3

They have gone full retard.

Consistently ranked as the best university in the world, and one of the oldest, most traditional, this just proves that no university is now immune to even more drastic changes in favor of women or poorly performing minorities.

Its results are proof: women are inferior in general at mathematics than are men, because men and women are different. In such an academic, supposedly evidence based powerhouse as Oxford University, this should simply be accepted as fact, because both genders have sat the same exams.

Even in this day and age, I'm surprised Oxford has done this. But I know some friends who say in certain subjects the courses are being tailored to be suited more to women, and a lot of the "forebrain rigor" as it were has been taken out of the examinations being deemed by dons as "archaic". The problem was there was no objective evidence that could be gathered that the courses suited men more than women, well, apart from pass rates increasing among women, but that could be brushed under the carpet.

The +15 minutes for women however is just blatant discrimination. What if on examination day I dress up in drag and "identify as a woman"? Do I get +15? +7.5? What?

Post: #4

Read it more closely, the school gave an extra 15 minutes to everyone.

"Students taking maths and computer science examinations in the summer of 2017 were given an extra 15 minutes to complete their papers, after dons ruled that "female candidates might be more likely to be adversely affected by time pressure". There was no change to the length or difficulty of the questions."

Post: #5

Misleading headline, bad journalism.

However, the administrators did tinker with a variable (exam time) to achieve a certain result, decrease in gender gap performance. They've implemented an outcome-based policy to fulfill their political agenda.

By and large, women are more conscientious than men, that's why they have better dropout rates than men. But they also have a lesser mathematical aptitude. Based on my experience, they do better in STEM classes that reward steady work and where the level of difficulty is reduced, but don't fare as well in classes where they are graded primarily on solving difficult problems. "Brute force" and sheer dedication makes up for the gap in pure aptitude, especially if the difficulty bar is lowered.

Note that the same is true of Asian students in general, who come into academia with greater focus and discipline, but as a group, don't have greater intellectual capacity than whites. This is something I have observed in my academic career at elite STEM schools.

Post: #6

I went to Oxford and always find it funny they refer to it as such when it’s really a collection of 40 independent colleges. The weather sucks balls there during the school year, too. I’d never encourage my kid to go there vs say San Diego. Or maybe Caltech for STEM stuff. Why torture yourself with shit weather? The best thing about it is that it not so subtly communicates to people (from other schools) that you’re smarter than them.

Post: #7

(01-22-2018 12:58 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Read it more closely, the school gave an extra 15 minutes to everyone.

"Students taking maths and computer science examinations in the summer of 2017 were given an extra 15 minutes to complete their papers, after dons ruled that "female candidates might be more likely to be adversely affected by time pressure". There was no change to the length or difficulty of the questions."

The post title is the actual headline. Misleading, overhyped clickbait at its absolute worst. I now put the Daily Telegraph in the same category as those publications who ran headlines about a "pro-rape men's group." Fuck modern journalism.

Post: #8

(01-22-2018 12:58 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Read it more closely, the school gave an extra 15 minutes to everyone.

"Students taking maths and computer science examinations in the summer of 2017 were given an extra 15 minutes to complete their papers, after dons ruled that "female candidates might be more likely to be adversely affected by time pressure". There was no change to the length or difficulty of the questions."

There is a reason tests are timed.
The purpose behind giving more time on the exam was explicitly stated - To help women perform better on the exam.
Giving more people more time will necessarily improve the overall number of people performing at the upper bound of the test's measured range. In other words, those guys who are far-right tail distribution get shifted ever more into the same indistinguishable grading pool as the rest of the middle-of-the-road intellects.

Just one more step towards Harrison Bergeron and a 'fair' world where men are not allowed to use their god-given gifts to excel and enrich us all, but instead must suffer under the sandbags of envious feminism.

Post: #9

I guess the "equality of opportunity" wasn't getting them the results they wanted, so they changed the rules to try to achieve "equality of outcome."

Post: #10

(01-23-2018 01:28 AM)demolition Wrote:  There is a reason tests are timed.
The purpose behind giving more time on the exam was explicitly stated - To help women perform better on the exam.
Giving more people more time will necessarily improve the overall number of people performing at the upper bound of the test's measured range. In other words, those guys who are far-right tail distribution get shifted ever more into the same indistinguishable grading pool as the rest of the middle-of-the-road intellects.

Eh, most of y'all aren't currently in school, so you don't know what's happening right now with this advent of added time. Not to say what you've said above is not a concern, it just doesn't get the whole picture.

To me, it almost seems like nearly everyone is getting extra time. This is mostly given to students with some sort of attention deficit disorder. In my secondary education courses, it seems about 0-3 students a class have extra time: I go to a small school.

Almost no one complains about this my age. I honestly don't really care that much either, people have been figuring out how to fudge their grades forever. This ain't any different. This 'extra time' attitude is just a part of the pervading college culture today.

Where this becomes a true problem? To attend an American University, most every prospective American college student will either take the SAT or ACT: two standardized tests that are supposed to gauge college readiness. At a college preparatory high school back home (private and one of the most expensive in the city), these rich, smarmy parents have figured out how to game the system. At this high school, 50%+ of ACT test taking students have extra time. They all go to the same doctor in order to claim the same BS attention deficit issue. Of course, the school doesn't stop this, their students are going to good schools in droves.

If you've ever taken the ACT, you'll know that time is incredibly crucial to a good score. A perfect is 36, I'm of the opinion that anyone with a 32, with ample time, could get close to acing the test precisely because you can slow down your thinking. The stinkin' reading section is made to be difficult because you have to read, comprehend, and answer questions very quickly! I don't see how this can be reigned in, but it'll just continue to contribute to the shit show that is the college application process, and fuck with the natural distribution of applicants, most certainly fuck with the tails of natural of distribution.

Post: #11

(01-23-2018 01:28 AM)demolition Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 12:58 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Read it more closely, the school gave an extra 15 minutes to everyone.

"Students taking maths and computer science examinations in the summer of 2017 were given an extra 15 minutes to complete their papers, after dons ruled that "female candidates might be more likely to be adversely affected by time pressure". There was no change to the length or difficulty of the questions."

There is a reason tests are timed.
The purpose behind giving more time on the exam was explicitly stated - To help women perform better on the exam.
Giving more people more time will necessarily improve the overall number of people performing at the upper bound of the test's measured range. In other words, those guys who are far-right tail distribution get shifted ever more into the same indistinguishable grading pool as the rest of the middle-of-the-road intellects.

Just one more step towards Harrison Bergeron and a 'fair' world where men are not allowed to use their god-given gifts to excel and enrich us all, but instead must suffer under the sandbags of envious feminism.

I don't think this is true, I think the idea that women need more time is just a myth and an excuse for the fact that they aren't studying as hard as their male counterparts.

But nobody wants to say they don't study as hard, or that maybe some aren't as smart, so it must be the time.

Damn near every test Ive taken you either know it and zoom through, or you dont. All the extra 15 minutes will do is allow people who didn't study to bumble through a few more questions and second guess ones they already answered.

Post: #12

(01-23-2018 10:40 AM)Saccade Wrote:  Almost no one complains about this my age. I honestly don't really care that much either, people have been figuring out how to fudge their grades forever. This ain't any different. This 'extra time' attitude is just a part of the pervading college culture today.

If you've ever taken the ACT, you'll know that time is incredibly crucial to a good score. A perfect is 36, I'm of the opinion that anyone with a 32, with ample time, could get close to acing the test precisely because you can slow down your thinking. The stinkin' reading section is made to be difficult because you have to read, comprehend, and answer questions very quickly! I don't see how this can be reigned in, but it'll just continue to contribute to the shit show that is the college application process, and fuck with the natural distribution of applicants, most certainly fuck with the tails of natural of distribution.

I was going to mention this problem in my previous post, but decided not to. It's an open secret that a huge number of people cheat in this way in America.
The drive to give everyone extra time, under whatever pretense, is again a manifestation of the desire to erase the ability to distinguish between good and bad, excellence and mediocrity.

(01-23-2018 11:39 AM)Repo Wrote:  Damn near every test Ive taken you either know it and zoom through, or you dont. All the extra 15 minutes will do is allow people who didn't study to bumble through a few more questions and second guess ones they already answered.

That's only true for tests that are purely memorization-based. A good test in, say, Mathematics, Statistics, Physics, etc. will require you to perform a number of calculations in order to reach the correct answer. Many guys are simply quicker to work out these problems than others are, or have a better natural intuition for the best way to approach a problem to produce the needed info.

Take a look at the SAT. None of the questions in there are exceptionally hard, but when you have 60 math questions in ~60 minutes, you have to use your time intelligently. Depending on the type of exam this can be even more pronounced -- Good luck doing an essay section in your final 5 minutes if you spent the first 55 minutes on the multiple-choice or short-answer sections.

Post: #13

Women are smart and funny okay. Get over it.

Post: #14

Yet people still spend all of their life's fortune to send their kids to that shithole...

Post: #15

Repo Wrote:Damn near every test Ive taken you either know it and zoom through, or you dont. All the extra 15 minutes will do is allow people who didn't study to bumble through a few more questions and second guess ones they already answered.

demolition Wrote:That's only true for tests that are purely memorization-based. A good test in, say, Mathematics, Statistics, Physics, etc. will require you to perform a number of calculations in order to reach the correct answer. Many guys are simply quicker to work out these problems than others are, or have a better natural intuition for the best way to approach a problem to produce the needed info.

Take a look at the SAT. None of the questions in there are exceptionally hard, but when you have 60 math questions in ~60 minutes, you have to use your time intelligently. Depending on the type of exam this can be even more pronounced -- Good luck doing an essay section in your final 5 minutes if you spent the first 55 minutes on the multiple-choice or short-answer sections.

In high school I took the Advanced Placement (AP) exams so that I could skip the first-year general education classes in college. There were two different exams that you could take for Physics: B and C. B was allegedly the easier one, and C was the more difficult.

I took some practice exams for both versions to decide which one to take:
- Physics B verbally tested your knowledge of concepts, without the math. All the multiple-choice answers were long sentences, and you had to pick the one sentence out of five that best answered the question (or the only one that was false).
- Physics C tested your knowledge of mathematical physics. Answers were either numbers or equations.

I went through Physics C quickly because I could work out each problem to get a number or equation answer and then pick the correct answer choice immediately from the five choices.

Physics B was a pain in the ass -- I had to read every single long sentence answer to choose the correct one. It took forever.

I took Physics C and didn't feel the need for more time. Physics B felt like the kind of question that tested how fast you could read the answer choices rather than your actual physics ability.